The end of Malik?

[Walton Buys Off Me]

We can only hope

Raptors' trade list almost half-dozen
Obvious who doesn't fit into team's future
Babcock has string of clubs to talk to before Feb. 24


DOUG SMITH
SPORTS REPORTER

It's clear that Donyell Marshall, Lamond Murray, Aaron Williams and perhaps Eric Williams and even Milt Palacio are not in the long-term Raptor plans centred on turning the team into something more than mere playoff participants.

None are young enough, or under contract for long enough, or good enough, or interested enough in sticking around for the years that the process will take, so general manager Rob Babcock has just 24 days now to start moving them and give coach Sam Mitchell something better to work with.

And some of those moveable parts continue to attract great interest around the NBA, even from opposing players during games.

Marshall would unquestionably welcome a deal, although he has never publicly expressed a desire to be moved. But seeing his minutes yo-yo from one game to the next — a difficult role to accept for someone who thrives on consistent playing time — can be doing nothing to make him consider Toronto a long-term proposition.

The San Antonio Spurs have been added to the list of suitors for Marshall, offering backup big man Malik Rose in return. However, Rose has an untenable contract — three years and almost $20 million (all figures U.S.) — and lacks the athleticism Mitchell wants.

The Heat remain strong suitors, strong enough that sources say players on the Miami team are mystified that Babcock has refused all entreaties for Marshall so far and let the veteran Raptor know that during a game in Toronto last week.

But the Heat offers, which include journeyman backup centre Michael Doleac, has done nothing to catch Babcock's attention.

And if there's one trait the general manager has displayed more than any other since his arrival, it's patience.

He is likely to weigh any offer until much closer to the Feb.24 trade deadline before acting.

Murray, with one season remaining on his contract, will be in the same position a year from now that Marshall is in today, and there's no question he'll leave as a free agent as soon as he can.

He also doesn't have the speed, or enthusiasm, that Mitchell wants and it's become apparent that young Matt Bonner is moving ahead of both Marshall and Murray in the rotation.

"Matt's been great for us," Mitchell said recently.

"He's been a diamond in the rough."

Aaron Williams, who can opt out of his contract this summer, has become little more than a bit player, while Eric Williams has been a disappointment recently

[SPARKY]

The grass always seems greener, until you get there. Marshall's deal expires at the end of the season so the motivation here is obviously a desire to move Lik's contract.

Pass.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Pass? Why? Because you blindly love Malik?

Our only weakness is a long three, Donyell fills that role perfectly. His contract expires at the end of this year, which means he'd be incredibly focused to play in the post-season.

*And* we'd get Malik's bloated contract off our books.

This is a win-win-win for the Spurs, and the only ones who can't admit that are the ones who are overly enamored with a very undersized big man who used to hustle and play hard, but has forgotten how.

[SPARKY]

Pass because Donyell Marshall doesn't give you anything you can't get out of Horry already. Pass because your weakness in the frontcourt is that you have a starting center who is way too passive in the paint. Pass because the disruption is not needed. Pass because you might just need a bigman physical enough to play inside as well as fleet footed enough to play in the uptempo style the Spurs have become accustomed to.

Don't even start with the blind love kiddo. It's obvious you know very little about the game. But at least you did get the Spurs' cheapness correct.

[Nikos]

Donyell is a very nice role player. On offense he can hit the open shot consistently. With Duncan and an overall unselfish passing team, Donyell could benefit with lots of open looks, and likely hit them.

Not sure how he would defend, but Donyell in general is a guy who scores well with someone else setting him up.

[SPARKY]

Donyell is a very nice role player. On offense he can hit the open shot consistently. With Duncan and an overall unselfish passing team, Donyell could benefit with lots of open looks, and likely hit them.

Not sure how he would defend, but Donyell in general is a guy who scores well with someone else setting him up.


Right here is the problem with most posters in this forum. They evaluate a player solely on his jumpshot.

The Spurs only make this deal because they are cheap.

[Ballcox]

Frugal and discerning with how they spend their money, yes. Cheap, I don't think so.

[BigVee]

Is anyone concerned about the affect on TD if Malik was sent down the river...so to speak? Aren't they fairly tight?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Pass because Donyell Marshall doesn't give you anything you can't get out of Horry already.

Horry cannot guard the Marions, Rashards, etc. of the league, don't even pretend he can.



Pass because you might just need a bigman physical enough to play inside as well as fleet footed enough to play in the uptempo style the Spurs have become accustomed to.

Are you implying Rose fits that qualification? We've got our physical big man, and he's seven inches taller (Massenberg), and even better he knows his role in the offense.
Malik is living off his legacy from garbage man play a few years back. The last two years has seen opponents' taller bench and starting big men easily throw aside Malik for boards or simply outjump him, and they don't even have to jump to block his shots on offense. No thanks.



Don't even start with the blind love kiddo. It's obvious you know very little about the game.

Oh brother, don't even start with this one. What has Malik done for this team this year, besides maybe two good games, a bunch of turnovers, a bunch of shots thrown back in his face, and doing a good towel wave on the bench?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

The Spurs only make this deal because they are cheap.

If by cheap you mean actually wanting to get some production for what they're paying, then call them cheap. I call it good business.

BigVee, everyone said the same about Antonio. Tim wants to win first, and he's got his boys now (Manu and Tony). In case you hadn't noticed the past couple of games, the team is loving Marks out on the court, Tim's treating him like a little brother.

[genghisrex]

The Spurs only make this deal because they are cheap.
It's no secret that the Spurs brass would like to rid itself of the contract, but if Malik isn't contributing, or at least not up to the level that earned him the contract, then why not explore trades for someone else who could? You'd have a better argument if rumors started flying around that the Spurs were shopping Malik for nothing but an expiring contract. Marshall has one, but he also happens to bring a lot more to the table.

[BigVee]

AHF, I suppose you are right. Who knows he might be just as pissed about Malik screwing up as many others.

[SPARKY]

Horry cannot guard the Marions, Rashards, etc. of the league, don't even pretend he can.


If Horry can't then Marshall certainly can't. Christ, if we are supposedly moving Malik because he's out of the rotation in Toronto Marshall is getting displaced by Matt fucking Bonner.




Are you implying Rose fits that qualification? We've got our physical big man, and he's seven inches taller (Massenberg), and even better he knows his role in the offense.

No one is worse in the Spurs' offensive sets than Mass. Yes, Malik can provide a physical presence in the paint and he has done so when given the chance.



Malik is living off his legacy from garbage man play a few years back. The last two years has seen opponents' taller bench and starting big men easily throw aside Malik for boards or simply outjump him, and they don't even have to jump to block his shots on offense. No thanks.


He did it for 5 years and nothing has changed except for a contract that the team doesn't want. Again and again the argument for moving Rose ends up being about the contract. When will you small fucking town homers stop believing that Peter Holt and all of his corporate buddies are some kind of small town bidnessmen just barely struggling to get by?



Oh brother, don't even start with this one. What has Malik done for this team this year, besides maybe two good games, a bunch of turnovers, a bunch of shots thrown back in his face, and doing a good towel wave on the bench?

Oh little boy I am going to start and end this one with your dumb Aggie ass mopping up the floor.

[SPARKY]

If by cheap you mean actually wanting to get some production for what they're paying, then call them cheap. I call it good business.

Oh please. I've seen Horry and even old grizzled Massenburg fuck up on a consistent basis. But they aren't the ones with the contract. Someone's gotta pay for TP and Manu getting those contracts and lo and behold if it isn't Malik Rose.

[Frenchise player]

Is anyone concerned about the affect on TD if Malik was sent down the river...so to speak? Aren't they fairly tight?
Nash and Nowitzki were friend and now they are both getting carrier year, far from each other.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I'm just waiting for the NBA Socrates over here, aka Sparky, to explain to me what Malik has done for this team this year. And please don't point to the 1-2 good games he's had this year, I think we paid him planning on him playing tough and smart and hustling more than once every 20 games.

Let's look at the matchup between Rose and Donyell

Height: Donyell (6'9" trumps 6'3"). I've watched countless opponents the last two years just jump/reach above Malik and get the rebound. No thanks.

Range: Each of the last two seasons Marshall has hit over 120 threes, and is on pace to do so again. Malik can reliably hit from about 17' (I'm gonna go with Marshall here).

Defense: Marshall. Teams post up their big men on Rose, who simply turn and shoot over him. Doesn't have the length to guard long threes, who simply shoot from outside on him when they're not taking him inside. Oh, and if you're keeping track at home, Marshall averaged about a block per game, compared to half that for Rose (and that's just career numbers, last season and this season Rose is averaging a combined .24 blocks per game - what a defensive monster!).

Rebounding: Marshall has a career average of 7.3 and has averaged more than 10 boards a game in two different seasons. Rose has a career avg. of 4.3 boards per game, with a career high of 6.3 (lower than Donyell's avg.) two years ago

Spurs fan sentimental value: Rose (not even good for a cup of coffee at the truck stop)

And I'll go out on a limb and say, seeings the organization makes the whole team do it, that Donyell can do just as much community service as Rose.

And the icing on the cake, Donyell makes 1 million less than Rose (despite more production in every statistical category - but you're right, the Spurs are cheap :lol ).

Sadly this is all for not, because Toronto isn't this stupid.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

He did it for 5 years and nothing has changed except for a contract that the team doesn't want. Again and again the argument for moving Rose ends up being about the contract.

If you think nothing has changed you haven't been watching Spurs basketball for the last year and a half.

Christ, even the likes of LJ, Shoogar Bear, etc. say Malik is sucking this year.

I'm done with this argument, the fact you think a 6'3" big man averaging .25 blocks a game, who's getting DNP-CDs behind a Kiwi with curly hair averaging two points a game, is great for both our offense and our defensive presence in the damn post, tells me all I need to know about your basketball acumen, or lack thereof.

Question: If the Spurs really hated Malik because of his contract, don't you think they'd be playing him to try and get his value up for a trade?

Malik's dug his own hole on this one, it's just gotten deeper, and no amount of shoveling by you and Spursgal is gonna change that.

I know this argument's over, it wouldn't be if you weren't trying to bring in my school as some half assed personal attack to try and prove you have a point (which you don't).

Good day.

[SPARKY]

I'm just waiting for the NBA Socrates over here, aka Sparky, to explain to me what Malik has done for this team this year. And please don't point to the 1-2 good games he's had this year, I think we paid him planning on him playing tough and smart and hustling more than once every 20 games.

Fuck he hasn't gotten a chance to do anything for this team over the last couple of seasons thanks to the Spurs burning desire to move his contract.




Let's look at the matchup between Rose and Donyell

Height: Donyell (6'9" trumps 6'3"). I've watched countless opponents the last two years just jump/reach above Malik and get the rebound. No thanks.


Here we go. Lil' Aggie goes by height to evaluate a player. First sign of a basketball ignoramus.



Range: Each of the last two seasons Marshall has hit over 120 threes, and is on pace to do so again. Malik can reliably hit from about 17' (I'm gonna go with Marshall here).


Next sign: Jumpshot.



Defense: Marshall. Teams post up their big men on Rose, who simply turn and shoot over him. Doesn't have the length to guard long threes, who simply shoot from outside on him when they're not taking him inside. Oh, and if you're keeping track at home, Marshall averaged about a block per game, compared to half that for Rose (and that's just career numbers, last season and this season Rose is averaging a combined .24 blocks per game - what a defensive monster!).


Next: Using block shots to evaluate defensive ability.



Rebounding: Marshall has a career average of 7.3 and has averaged more than 10 boards a game in two different seasons. Rose has a career avg. of 4.3 boards per game, with a career high of 6.3 (lower than Donyell's avg.) two years ago

Next: Comparing players using inflated stats on lottery bound teams.




Spurs fan sentimental value: Rose (not even good for a cup of coffee at the truck stop)


Considering that most Spurs fans still think Danny Ferry and Steve Kerr are Spurs you might be right.



And I'll go out on a limb and say, seeings the organization makes the whole team do it, that Donyell can do just as much community service as Rose.


I'm sure he can too.



And the icing on the cake, Donyell makes 1 million less than Rose (despite more production in every statistical category - but you're right, the Spurs are cheap :lol ).


So the Spurs get another lanky forward who is light in the post but, not quick enough to defend the 3, but can shoot a lot of regular season 3s. Great.



Sadly this is all for not, because Toronto isn't this stupid.

But the Spurs are.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Seriously, I don't see you bringing any takes, just mocking me because I'm using stats to back up the obvious - that Donyell's better than Rose.

As for being light in the post, what Western conference front line player can Malik handle? Shawn Bradley?

What about our likely opponents in the East? Can't guard Jermaine O'Neal, hasn't been able to guard Shaq for a good three years (even when he got the chance).

Come on, just give me some reason other than the fact that it's the stats, or that I'm an Aggie, or (my personal favorite) "I know more than you", as to why Rose > Marshall.

Yeah, the Spurs are dumb. Good call dumbass. Best front office in the damn league, and you're hating because your fucking golden child role player, he of the 5 PPG, 4 RPG, hustles once every twenty games variety, is on the trade block.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Here's a thought: Rose isn't playing because he isn't earning the playing time. I know he should be able to dictate his minutes seeings he busted his ass back in '01-'02 and the last half of 02-03, but come on.

He's not beating out Horry, Massenberg, Rasho, or Marks based on play on the court or in practice (despite being paid more than three of those four), and you're throwing a hissy fit over it.

Get over Rose, and get over yourself.

[SPARKY]

Seriously, I don't see you bringing any takes, just mocking me because I'm using stats to back up the obvious - that Donyell's better than Rose.

I've addressed your points already. Given that you have a tendency to do what you accuse me of I find your accusation quite humorous.



As for being light in the post, what Western conference front line player can Malik handle? Shawn Bradley?

Oh yes, Malik can't play physical inside. You can't put Malik on Shaq. Malik never did a solid job when matched up against the likes of KG. Fuck man your Rose hate has made you stupid. Rose can certainly play inside against physical frontcourts. Too bad Horry has problems with that.



What about our likely opponents in the East? Can't guard Jermaine O'Neal, hasn't been able to guard Shaq for a good three years (even when he got the chance).


Oh yes, Donyell Marshall the defensive genius.



Come on, just give me some reason other than the fact that it's the stats, or that I'm an Aggie, or (my personal favorite) "I know more than you", as to why Rose > Marshall.


I've made my points. You have not responded to them directly. Until you do so I will continue to administer the appropriate level of condescention which you have earned.




Yeah, the Spurs are dumb. Good call dumbass. Best front office in the damn league,

Yet if they were the "best front office in the damn league" why would they have ever signed such a horrid player in the first place? Don't they teach logic in Aggieland?



and you're hating because your fucking golden child role player, he of the 5 PPG, 4 RPG, hustles once every twenty games variety, is on the trade block.

No, I'm hating on them because obviously they are hell bent on moving Malik's contract because they are cheap. Cheap enough to treat a Tony Parker like crap and be perfectly willing to not extend his contract.

[exstatic]

Is anyone concerned about the affect on TD if Malik was sent down the river...so to speak? Aren't they fairly tight?

AD was close to Tim, too. It's a business, and Tim understands that.

[SPARKY]

Here's a thought: Rose isn't playing because he isn't earning the playing time. I know he should be able to dictate his minutes seeings he busted his ass back in '01-'02 and the last half of 02-03, but come on.

Funny, the reason given again and again for why they wanted to move Lik has been his contract. It's never been about the play.




He's not beating out Horry, Massenberg, Rasho, or Marks based on play on the court or in practice (despite being paid more than three of those four), and you're throwing a hissy fit over it.



It's kind of hard to beat those guys out when he has $26 million hanging around his neck.

Yeah, I'm really sure that Lik hasn't beat out Marks. Get a fucking clue.



Get over Rose, and get over yourself.

Get over your own damn self. You most in this forum as if you actually might know something. Shut the fuck up already you little blowhard chump.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Malik never did a solid job when matched up against the likes of KG.

Not in two years he hasn't. Quit living on the dude's legacy, it's obvious the Spurs team has.


I've made my points. You have not responded to them directly.

What points? I haven't seen anything other than "I'm right, you're wrong." That's as fucking lame as living on Rose's legacy.


Yet if they were the "best front office in the damn league" why would they have ever signed such a horrid player in the first place? Don't they teach logic in Aggieland?

They're human. They make mistakes. Even I was for Rose getting the deal they originally gave him. He hasn't backed it up since, especially not this year.

As for them being cheap, show me a GM in the league who'd be happy with their 12th Man making 5 million per. It's not being cheap, it's about getting value for what you're paying for.

I'd bet you'd be pretty pissed too if you paid for a Porsche and the thing was running slower than a fucking tricycle.

[Jimcs50]

AD was close to Tim, too. It's a business, and Tim understands that.


I do not think Tim could stand waking up in the morning without seeing Malik's face every day. It might crush him.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Shut the fuck up already you little blowhard chump.

Okay Sparky. I know I've won if you're resorting to personal potshots.

It's been a fun discussion, too bad it's been so one sided. Look around, no one's backing you up on this for a reason. And it's not because they're all cheap either.

[SPARKY]

Not in two years he hasn't. Quit living on the dude's legacy, it's obvious the Spurs team has.

Again, he's not been given the chance because of, again, the contract.




What points? I haven't seen anything other than "I'm right, you're wrong." That's as fucking lame as living on Rose's legacy.

Go back and read.




They're human. They make mistakes. Even I was for Rose getting the deal they originally gave him. He hasn't backed it up since, especially not this year.


Hahaha. Oh yes, they're human but Malik Rose isn't.




As for them being cheap, show me a GM in the league who'd be happy with their 12th Man making 5 million per. It's not being cheap, it's about getting value for what you're paying for.


Funny. They want him gone because of the contract, not his play.



I'd bet you'd be pretty pissed too if you paid for a Porsche and the thing was running slower than a fucking tricycle.

If you pay for a Porsche and you leave it in the garage and bitch about it costing so much yet you can afford it then you are one cheap self loathing bitch.

[SPARKY]

Okay Sparky. I know I've won if you're resorting to personal potshots.


You've earned it after you will not respond to my points yet want to pretend you have.




It's been a fun discussion, too bad it's been so one sided. Look around, no one's backing you up on this for a reason. And it's not because they're all cheap either.

That's ok. Most Spurs fans still want to know why Pop doesn't play Steve Kerr more.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

What points? Ask some questions. I haven't heard anything other than the "you're wrong, I'm right, you're an Aggie, and Malik banged down low a few times back in '02" points.

There's nothing to respond to there.

How can I have a discussion with anyone who thinks Rose's defense on any level, any plane, hell any alternate LSD induced universe, approaches Tim's or Bruce's?

[SPARKY]

What points? Ask some questions. I haven't heard anything other than the "you're wrong, I'm right, you're an Aggie, and Malik banged down low a few times back in '02" points.

Apparently you cannot read.




There's nothing to respond to there.

How can I have a discussion with anyone who thinks Rose's defense on any level, any plane, hell any alternate LSD induced universe, approaches Tim's or Bruce's?

All I said was that even the almighty Duncan and Bowen have guys shoot over them on a regular basis. That doesn't mean their D sucks nor that Rose is a DPOY candidate. Figure it out lil' Aggie.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I can read just fine.

Here's a synopsis of your "points" that I can tell.

- You're an Aggie, so you're wrong/sheepfucker

- Mikey is a fat fuck

- Stats aren't everything

- People score on Duncan and Bowen, so what's the big deal about people doing it on a much more consistent basis over Rose?

- I know more about hoops than you because I said so.

- Rose isn't playing because Holt's cheap, not because his play sucks

- A 6'3" guy with no range helps open up our offense more than a 6'9" guy who can drop the three

- Rose, at 6'3", helps our defense more on 6'10" interior guys who throw him around like a rag doll than Marshall, at 6'9" does guarding the long threes that are the only problem area for the Spurs defense

Other than that, I haven't seen shit from you in the way of "points."

[SPARKY]

I can read just fine.

Here's a synopsis of your "points" that I can tell.

- You're an Aggie, so you're wrong/sheepfucker

- Mikey is a fat fuck


I posted my points at the start and instead of responding to them you just spewed your usual nonsensical crap. So as far as I'm concerned you deserve to be treated like a moron.



- Stats aren't everything


Not when one player was on a lotto team for a number of years and the other was helping a team win championships.



- People score on Duncan and Bowen, so what's the big deal about people doing it on a much more consistent basis over Rose?


Rose isn't that poor of a defender. I only said that even Bowen and TD have players score over the top of them. Unfortunately you are the kind of individual who immediate interprets that as a claim that Rose is as good of a defender as TD and Bowen, which it clearly was not.



- I know more about hoops than you because I said so.


Which is correct.



- Rose isn't playing because Holt's cheap, not because his play sucks


Again and again every report about Rose being moved begins and ends with Malik's contract. His play has not changed, he's the same old Malik that he was from 1998-2003. What has changed has been this incessant focus on moving him because of the contract.



- A 6'3" guy with no range helps open up our offense more than a 6'9" guy who can drop the three


There you go again. It's all about height and the jumpshot when evaluating bigs. Just fucking stupid.



- Rose, at 6'3", helps our defense more on 6'10" interior guys who throw him around like a rag doll than Marshall, at 6'9" does guarding the long threes that are the only problem area for the Spurs defense


"Rag doll"? Now you're just making shit up, or perhaps you are that clueless.



Other than that, I haven't seen shit from you in the way of "points."

I made my points at the start. Unfortunately all you can do is try to create strawmen to respond to them.

[2centsworth]

Seriously, I don't see you bringing any takes, just mocking me because I'm using stats to back up the obvious - that Donyell's better than Rose.

Donyell is not better than Rose. Rose has forgotten what got him the contract. Steals, offensive rebounding and putbacks, tenacious defense, and very little else. Instead, he shoots to fuking much, misses way too many layups, and turns the ballover most times he touches the ball. He still has the talent to be valuable to the spurs, but at this point he doesn't have the mind frame. Donyell has never been known to be a defensive minded player, and has never played for a winner. I'd rather have Scott Williams, Mark Jackson, or Antonio Davis.

[SPARKY]

I suggest first trying to type a coherent sentence before you even think about talking shit to me you little crack addled dumbfuck.

[Ballcox]

And the winner of the pissing match is..............................
................................................
................................................

Who the hell cares? :fro

[Dartherus]

Sparky, you're out of arguments in this discussion...it's better to accept it instead of making a fool of yourself in the future, by not accepting facts and reasoned arguments.

I'll try add some thoughts....

Even if Donyell wasn't better than Malik.....(just supposing Sparky is right that Malik>Donyell)
Even if Donyell was crap as a player....

Even then, the Spurs should consider such deal, just because of getting rid of an OVERPAID contract....Donyell is in his last year of his contract and that'ssomething important to consider.

If Donyel doesn't contribute, he won't have room for getting a decent salary for next seasons, and he proves he can contribute and fit in Spurs style, then a good player will be gained for Spurs, and they'll have arguments to negotiate based on performance, rather than paying big bucks for an undersized inside player who doesn't see minutes in action...don't you think?

Besides, if Big mans will be needed, Scola can come next season, and
Scola is >>>> than Malik, for sure, and he probably will cost less than the half of Malik's salary, so the Spurs would recover a Big man for the roster (and a really big man, several inches taller than Malik, a legit 6'9" that could be easily listed as 6'10" or more is his height is listed on the same way as Malik's ;-) ).

[SPARKY]

Sparky, you're out of arguments in this discussion...it's better to accept it instead of making a fool of yourself in the future, by not accepting facts and reasoned arguments.

Problem for you is that I've made a fool out of who you apparently agree with.



I'll try add some thoughts....


Stop the presses.



Even if Donyell wasn't better than Malik.....(just supposing Sparky is right that Malik>Donyell)
Even if Donyell was crap as a player....

Even then, the Spurs should consider such deal, just because of getting rid of an OVERPAID contract....Donyell is in his last year of his contract and that'ssomething important to consider.


You mean the Spurs are looking to move Lik because of his contract? That certainly hasn't been brought up yet.




If Donyel doesn't contribute, he won't have room for getting a decent salary for next seasons, and he proves he can contribute and fit in Spurs style, then a good player will be gained for Spurs, and they'll have arguments to negotiate based on performance, rather than paying big bucks for an undersized inside player who doesn't see minutes in action...don't you think?


Please. Marshall will command just as much if not more than the remaining 4 years that Rose has on his contract. Look at what Brian Cardinal and Adonal Foyle cost last season. At least you have Rose under contract at the average salary for the next 4 seasons. With Marshall you could lose him. If he "doesn't contribute" as you say then you just gave up someone who has been a longtime playoff performer for nothing...well, nothing except for paring down payroll.




Besides, if Big mans will be needed, Scola can come next season, and
Scola is >>>> than Malik, for sure,

So you think. What happens when he's a bust? You just created the problem of finding a reserve bigman and, ugh, you still have Nesterovic starting at center.



and he probably will cost less than the half of Malik's salary, so the Spurs


get what they want which is a cheap reserve bigman in place of Lik. I'm not sure about you but I want to see a Spurs team which isn't going to let money get in the way of putting the best team they can on the court.




would recover a Big man for the roster (and a really big man, several inches taller than Malik, a legit 6'9" that could be easily listed as 6'10" or more is his height is listed on the same way as Malik's ;-) ).

Here we are again with the height thing. If height made a player a real bigman Ostertag would be the second coming of Wilt the Stilt. You guys are so predictable, height, jumpshooting. Fuck that. Let's get someone who knows how to play in the paint, just not someone who looks like a "really big man"...

[Dartherus]

Problem for you is that I've made a fool out of who you apparently agree with.
Sparky, Aggie beat you badly, why looking for beeing beating more? :lol


You mean the Spurs are looking to move Lik because of his contract? That certainly hasn't been brought up yet.
Why wouldn't make sense? care to explain?


Please. Marshall will command just as much if not more than the remaining 4 years that Rose has on his contract. Look at what Brian Cardinal and Adonal Foyle cost last season.
Spurs management tend to make smart moves, not like other franchises where overpaid players seems to be the norm, what make you think that they would overpay again?


At least you have Rose under contract at the average salary for the next 4 seasons. With Marshall you could lose him. If he "doesn't contribute" as you say then you just gave up someone who has been a longtime playoff performer for nothing...well, nothing except for paring down payroll.
It's a risk, sure, but for winning you have to take risk, and in this case, beeing in a bad situation (and undersized and overpaid player) more are the chances of winning than losing, don't you think? deal


So you think. What happens when he's a bust? You just created the problem of finding a reserve bigman and, ugh, you still have Nesterovic starting at center.
It seems you know little of FIBA basketball, have you seen Scola's games? Scola has been prving himself year after year, in Euroleague and with his NT, has faced NBA players when he was young (was MVP in an U-22 PanAmerican tournament, outplaying inside players Randolph, Gooden, Boozer amongs others current good NBA players, Argentina beat USA team by 15 pts then), he showed his value against 2 consecutive Dream Teams (both in Indianapolis and Athens) showing one on one moves (shwoing individual skills, not just team play, like other FIBA players do, and then fail in NBA), his stats in Olimpics were almost as valuable as Manu's, and you still are afraid of him beeing a bust? it's better to stick to lik than to take a small risk supposed in the trade and the future coming of Scola?


get what they want which is a cheap reserve bigman in place of Lik. I'm not sure about you but I want to see a Spurs team which isn't going to let money get in the way of putting the best team they can on the court.
Scola is waaay better than Lik, he won't be just a reserve with no minutes, and won't be overpaid neither...


Here we are again with the height thing. If height made a player a real bigman Ostertag would be the second coming of Wilt the Stilt. You guys are so predictable, height, jumpshooting. Fuck that. Let's get someone who knows how to play in the paint, just not someone who looks like a "really big man"...
Your Ostertag analogy must be product of ignorance, Scola is not just taller than Malik, he's waaaaay better than Malik regarding Basketball IQ, shooting range, Ballhandling, dribbling, overall skills, footwork and fundamentals.
There's a phrase from a guy in Spurs Report Forum I remeber he wrote after watching Scola's videos: "Malik wouldn't do that even on an empty court",
that phrase portrays perfectly the skills gap between.

[spur219]

If we could get Marshall for Malik that would be awesome. Donny can sure play and has a lot of talent and does hustle. But it won't happen.

[SPARKY]

Sparky, Aggie beat you badly, why looking for beeing beating more? :lol

Maybe you need to stop beating yourself off.




Why wouldn't make sense? care to explain?

'tis sarcasm, captain.




Spurs management tend to make smart moves, not like other franchises where overpaid players seems to be the norm, what make you think that they would overpay again?

Ugh. Because the market for bigs in the NBA dictates that. Again, look at what Cardinal and Foyle cost last summer. Bigs dont come cheap in this league. Rose's deal looks like a bargain in comparison.



It's a risk, sure, but for winning you have to take risk, and in this case, beeing in a bad situation (and undersized and overpaid player) more are the chances of winning than losing, don't you think? deal


Given what Rose has done for this team in the postseason I don't see the need to move him because he's somehow not able to help the Spurs win. He's always come ready to play in the playoffs and he was a major piece of the two Spurs' championships and definitely did not keep them from advancing in the other years, at least when he's had the chance to play.

Perhaps you missed that because you weren't a Spurs fan back then.




It seems you know little of FIBA basketball, have you seen Scola's games? Scola has been prving himself year after year, in Euroleague and with his NT, has faced NBA players when he was young (was MVP in an U-22 PanAmerican tournament, outplaying inside players Randolph, Gooden, Boozer amongs others current good NBA players, Argentina beat USA team by 15 pts then), he showed his value against 2 consecutive Dream Teams (both in Indianapolis and Athens) showing one on one moves (shwoing individual skills, not just team play, like other FIBA players do, and then fail in NBA), his stats in Olimpics were almost as valuable as Manu's, and you still are afraid of him beeing a bust? it's better to stick to lik than to take a small risk supposed in the trade and the future coming of Scola?

There are no guarantees that Scola could perform as well with a NBA team. International bigmen have a tendency to struggle to adjust to the physicality of the NBA game. Sure, a few have managed but I'm not ready to bet on that. Besides, you don't have to move Rose right now to be able to bring in Scola next summer.



Scola is waaay better than Lik, he won't be just a reserve with no minutes, and won't be overpaid neither...

Again, speculation. Scola's skills might not translate well to the NBA game, especially given the difference in the defensive rules.



Your Ostertag analogy must be product of ignorance,

No, it's a product of your ignorance because clearly it points out the fallacy of relying on height and size to judge a bigman's value.



Scola is not just taller than Malik, he's waaaaay better than Malik regarding Basketball IQ, Ballhandling, dribbling, overall skills, footwork and fundamentals.

Again, speculation. One thing is for certain, however, and that is that Scola has not routinely faced the physical style of play that he would see in the NBA night in and night out. We've already seen how well a technically sound big like Rasho has handled that.

[2centsworth]

Sparky,

Why are you defending Malik to the death? He isn't all that important in the overall scheme of things. Even 90 year old Kevin Willis took minutes from Malik.

[SPARKY]

Sparky,

Why are you defending Malik to the death? He isn't all that important in the overall scheme of things. Even 90 year old Kevin Willis took minutes from Malik.


Actually, he is pretty significant all things considered. With a finesse style center like Nesterovic in the starting lineup the Spurs need a little more physicality in the frontcourt rotation, yet they also need bigs who can play in an uptempo game. Rose is the only reserve who fits that description.

After seeing the Spurs exit from the postseason last year because they were owned in the paint the last thing I want to see is them get softer up front. If you move Rose for Marshall you are doing that. I don't give a damn if he can hit 20 foot Js Horry can do that. But you need guys who are not afraid to attack the glass and exert themselves in the paint.

So far every argument I've seen for moving Malik and bringing in someone else ignores that. It is foolish given what really matters when it comes to the NBA paint. Toughness and physical aggression matters a lot more than pure technical skill.

The Spurs fucked up in the 2004 postseason by going with a finesse oriented frontcourt and they are headed back down that path this season.

[2centsworth]

After seeing the Spurs exit from the postseason last year because they were owned in the paint the last thing I want to see is them get softer up front.

It was more the lack of jump shooting. Championship teams were laced with solid clutch jump shooters. I'll agree we're soft inside, but Malik is not making himself the answer. BTW, Marshall isn't the answer either. I rather have Antonio Davis or someone like that. Maybe that why coaches want Malone so badly.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

2cents, you should have read enough Marcus Bryant by now to understand why Sparky is defending Malik like he is.

[SPARKY]

It was more the lack of jump shooting. Championship teams were laced with solid clutch jump shooters.


Did the Spurs not have such shooters in 2001, 2002, and 2004? Shooters are only as good as the looks they get. Those looks are dependent on what a defense is able to do to them, which of course means how quick defenders can close out on them, which in turn is contingent on the quality of the opponents' interior defense.



I'll agree we're soft inside, but Malik is not making himself the answer. BTW, Marshall isn't the answer either. I rather have Antonio Davis or someone like that. Maybe that why coaches want Malone so badly.

There you go. Think about that for a minute. The Spurs want a Karl Malone because of his physical presence yet they are willing to make a move that would make them less physical up front. Now why might that be? Again, Rose's contract.

[SPARKY]

2cents, you should have read enough Marcus Bryant by now to understand why Sparky is defending Malik like he is.


SPARKY is defending Malik Rose because it's obvious to anyone with half a clue about the game that the last thing the Spurs need is to get softer up front. Whatever you have with Marcus Bryant talk to him about it.

[2centsworth]

solid clutch jump shooters

Did you conveniently leave out the word "CLUTCH". Also, Tim Duncan being injured had something to do with not winning in one of those years. But I could be wrong, Maybe if Malik plays we're on a steak of 6 str8 championships.

[SPARKY]

Duncan was out in 2000.

Shooters are only as good as the looks they get. Manu and Bowen shot significantly better in the 2003 series against LA than in 2004. Now why is that? Did some of their clutchness magically disappear during the intervening year? Or perhaps, just perhaps, the Laker frontcourt improved while the Spurs' got weaker, thereby improving the Laker perimeter defense by freeing up the Laker perimeter players to devote more attention to the Spurs shooters.

It's no coincidence that the Spurs dropped the Shaq-Kobe-Phil Lakers in the year in which they had the best, most physical frontcourt rotation and the Lakers had their worst. Prior to 2003 and after the Lakers had much better frontcourts.

People act as though you can disassociate the quality of looks from the penetration and your post game. You can't. If you get good penetration and post play then that opens up the outside game with good looks for your shooters.

In 2004 LA shut down the paint after the 1st game and they took the series. Also, incredibly, the Spurs' shooters went cold.

[2centsworth]

Shooters are only as good as the looks they get

Forgot, Malik creates better looks for everyone. Reasons why we lost last year other than frontcourt strength:

1. No backup PG to bail out Tony

2. No Stephen Jackson to hit clutch 3's

3. Hedo disappeared.

4. Horry couldn't hit anything, even the open looks

5. .04 seconds

6. Brown wasn't on the team in '03


Not arguing Front Court getting stronger isn't a good thing. Just Malik isn't fitting the bill.

[SPARKY]

Malik gives you another guy who isn't afraid to exert himself in the offensive paint. He is not afraid to attack the rim and to establish position. If you have guys who play weak up front then that allows the opponent to control the paint with less effort and to spend more effort on defending the perimeter.

Remember how Parker torched the Lakers in Game 1 of that series? Why'd that stop? Did it stop because he forgot how to drive? Because the Spurs stopped shooting well? No. It stopped because the Lakers changed up their defense and focused on shutting down the paint from penetration by the Spurs guards as well as the Spurs' interior play. Lakers got much more physical up front and the Spurs didn't respond in kind.

That was the problem. Here we are again and now the Spurs are back to Nesterovic starting (when healthy) with Horry as the primary backup bigman.

How to beat the Spurs isn't a secret. LA showed how last season.

[TDrules01]

DAMN SPARKY(how much is he paying you) you are Maliks #1 fan.
Dont forget with business its "what have you done for me lately"
it just seems that rose doesnt have the character to get out of the current slump he is in. POP TRADE HIM PLZ.
Sparky you need to look at the big picture, malik is just 1 player not the team.

[T Park]

Malik = championship supposedly.

[SequSpur]

Malik could start on any other team. What would we do if signed with the Lakers...............

OMG............

Remember that shit.

Eating words mofos. eating words........ all of you.

[SPARKY]

Eating what? Spurs ownership is led by a cheap fucker who was prepared to give up Tony Parker. Open your eyes chumps.

[T Park]

and he stepped up and paid Parker.

Whats your point.

He also stepped up this offseason signing Brent Barry, and giving Ginobili a very good contract as well.


Once again, show us the cheapness.

[SPARKY]

Sure and now they are trying to move Lik and Rasho for expiring and/or small contracts.

Cheap.

[T Park]

Pop said they are not trying to trade Nesterovic.

So there goes your theory on that.

[SequSpur]

For one reason..........

They just don't fit in.

Malik and Rasho are the wrong pieces to the puzzle.

Figure it out.

Malik-DNP. Rasho, no 4th quarters.

Simple math.

[SPARKY]

Barry wasn't fitting in to the point that Devin "Who?" Brown had taken his spot.

The front office is cheap and relies on blind sheep homers like Sequ and TPark to keep the money flowing in.

[BronxCowboy]

Sparky, I fear you're wasting your time. It's obvious that what the Spurs really want to trade is Malik's contract because they clearly are not going to get equal talent in exchange if they do trade him (even if you consider Marshall equal talent, Toronto already said it's not happening). But some of these people are just never going to get that.

[T Park]

Barry wasn't fitting in to the point that Devin "Who?" Brown had taken his spot.

He got a start for one game against Portland, he got rolling, and is now fitting in.

He started playing defense and poof, hes now playing more. THAT SIMPLE.


Malik on the other hand, started playing dumber and dumber, Horry played smarter and smarter.


Adios Malik.


But, its his contract he is playing bad.


riiiiggghhhttt.


Hes got a contract hovering over his head, ooooo booo hoooo wahhhh.

Cry me a fuckin river.

[san antonio spurs]

I'm a big time spurs players lover (any player on our team is precious for me), i look for everything he did past years, I'll be willing to give him more opportunities, I guess that's why I won't do a good GM's job, or coaching job.
Malik is in a situation barry was this season, and even horry early in the season, what malik has to know, is that he'd rather wake up now,or dude's gone.
I understand what SPARKY is saying, but what he said is what dude used to do, not what he's doing. :depressed
________
ShaggMyPussy (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/ShaggMyPussy/)

[T Park]

[QUOTE]Toronto already said it's not happening[QUOTE]

I wouldn't totally discount it yet, but I agree, this trade seems dead in the water.

[Dartherus]

Ugh. Because the market for bigs in the NBA dictates that. Again, look at what Cardinal and Foyle cost last summer. Bigs dont come cheap in this league. Rose's deal looks like a bargain in comparison.
The market for bigs dictates to pay big bucks to guys PLAYING and CONTRIBUTING, Malik isn't doing that from some time ago...

Tell me...If I'm so wrong and Malik isn't overpaid.... why Malik was put in the Expansion Draft? and why the Bobcats (a new franchise with cap-room and need of reliable players) didn't take him? Did Spurs managers make a dumb move risking themselves to loosing Malik for NOTHING? Did Bobcats managers make at the same time another dumb move for not getting him? Care to illuminate us with your explanations? ;-)



There are no guarantees that Scola could perform as well with a NBA team. International bigmen have a tendency to struggle to adjust to the physicality of the NBA game. Sure, a few have managed but I'm not ready to bet on that. Besides, you don't have to move Rose right now to be able to bring in Scola next summer.
Scola is far from beeing an euro softie...any scout who watched him in europe can confirm it...one of his major weaknesses was beeing foul prone, and his deffense not beeing as good as his offense, both aspects has been noticeably improved, he still have room to improve, but he's showed in these years clear improvements from one season to another, specially in deffense and mid-range shooting, all this due to the contrasted hardworking ethic.



Again, speculation. Scola's skills might not translate well to the NBA game, especially given the difference in the defensive rules.
More speculation I see from your side, supposing that Scola will be as soft as Rasho or as unskilled as Ostertag, both supositions VERY far from reality.


No, it's a product of your ignorance because clearly it points out the fallacy of relying on height and size to judge a bigman's value.
It was you who showed lack of knowledge about International Players when you used a so unskilled player Ostertag for an analogy involved to a guy so skilled like Scola.


Again, speculation. One thing is for certain, however, and that is that Scola has not routinely faced the physical style of play that he would see in the NBA night in and night out. We've already seen how well a technically sound big like Rasho has handled that.
That's the other speculation I was talking about. First, Scola is not just 'technically sound' he's a player VERY skilled, with great footwork and post moves, a lot fundamentals and Basketball IQ on the floor. But beeing that technically gifted doesn't convert him in a stereotyped euro softie (in fact he's very strong and fast, and doesn't hesitate to fight inside, that's one of his problems of him getting into foul trouble), I invite you to download videos of his games to realize it with your own eyes.

[SPARKY]

Oh so Barry was given an opportunity to just play regular minutes and all is well.

Imagine that.

[BronxCowboy]

I'll just go on record saying that I would really hate to see Malik go because I think he can be an excellent role player and a solid contributor. I've been a big fan since he joined the team, and I think it's sad the way Pop has handled him. Yes, he could be doing better and he has had some breakdowns, but Pop is not helping by gluing him to the bench. I think the whole problem with playing time/performance is related to the discord between Malik and Pop, and I really hope they work things out and Malik gets a real chance to contribute. If that can't happen, as much as I would miss him, maybe it would be better for Malik if he could go somewhere that he can get some steady PT and play under a more compatible coach.

[SPARKY]

The market for bigs dictates to pay big bucks to guys PLAYING and CONTRIBUTING, Malik isn't doing that right now...If I'm so wrong and Malik isn't overpaid.... why Malik was put in the Expansion Draft? and why the Bobcats (a new franchise with cap-room and need of reliable players) didn't take him? Spurs were fools risking themselves to loosing Malik for NOTHING? Bobcats were at the same time foold for not getting him? Care to illuminate us with your explanations? ;-)

The Bobcats are a new franchise with different considerations, namely the cap. The Spurs are capped out as it is and will be for at least the next 4 years regardless of what happens to Malik. The only motivation to move Malik is based on his contract. If you think a Brian Cardinal is worth more than a Malik Rose you need to watch more basketball.




Scola is far from beeing an euro softie...any scout who watched him in europe can confirm it...one of his major weaknesses was beeing foul prone, and his deffense not beeing as good as his offense, both aspects has been noticeably improved, he still have room to improve, but he's showed in these years clear improvements from one season to another, specially in deffense and mid-range shooting, all this due to the contrasted hardworking ethic.


And Nesterovic wasn't soft, for a Euro.




More speculation I see from your side, supposing that Scola will be as soft as Rasho or as unskilled as Ostertag, both supositions VERY far from reality.


You have no evidence that Scola could handle playing in the post in the NBA other than your hopes.



It was you who showed lack of knowledge about International Players when you used a so unskilled player Ostertag for an analogy involved to a guy so skilled like Scola.

Actually I used it as a general example to show how the height of a player means very little with respect to a big's abilities. Here's another: Charles Barkley was 6'4" on a good day. Now I guess I have to write this so you can understand it: I am not saying that Rose is as good as Barkley was, but only that, again, height doesn't matter.

So before you try to critique my argument again at least get it right.



That's the other speculation I was talking about. First, Scola is not just 'technically sound' he's a player VERY skilled, with great footwork and post moves, a lot fundamentals and Basketball IQ on the floor. But beeing that technically gifted doesn't convert him in a stereotyped euro softie (in fact he's very strong and fast, and doesn't hesitate to fight inside, that's one of his problems of him getting into foul trouble), I invite you to download videos of his games to realize it with your own eyes.

I've seen Scola play. Once you force him into a game with some semblance of man to man defense and against bigmen with the athleticism of those in the NBA then I'm afraid Scola will be average at best.

But, he'll be cheap and that is what matters to ownership first and foremost.

[SPARKY]

I'll just go on record saying that I would really hate to see Malik go because I think he can be an excellent role player and a solid contributor. I've been a big fan since he joined the team, and I think it's sad the way Pop has handled him. Yes, he could be doing better and he has had some breakdowns, but Pop is not helping by gluing him to the bench. I think the whole problem with playing time/performance is related to the discord between Malik and Pop, and I really hope they work things out and Malik gets a real chance to contribute. If that can't happen, as much as I would miss him, maybe it would be better for Malik if he could go somewhere that he can get some steady PT and play under a more compatible coach.


True, but isn't it odd how the discord happened just as the Spurs were facing the impending free agency of Ginobili? That contract has been hanging over his head like a dark cloud precisely because ownership has determined that they don't want to pay it. Pop and Lik never had this level of nonsense going on between them before he signed that deal.

[manustarting2gd]

Pay Malik to go away, he has used up all his chances with most of the fans and sad to say even Pop. It is just ridiculous when you cannot pass the ball to one of the five players on the court because of their horrid ball handling and his incompetent decision-making abilities. However, I cannot see anyone biting at Malik Rose, unless packaged with another player, and/or with a pick along with cash. But whom else do you think we might deal? Devin? Sato? As for Scola.. Scola is 6'9" 230 , Malik is 6'7"(more around 6'5) 245. I call him the "the skilled Malik Rose" and he is exactly what the Spurs need. I cant wait for him to be on the court with Tony, Manu and Tim. I'll be the first to say watch out NBA. These wont be the regular old Spurs , these SPURS will dominate like no other. Here are some of the things said about Luis Scola: he has a variety of post moves and can hit a j from 15 feet out, consistently. Also, he has played with Manu (and he possesses a high basketball IQ), and most importantly, is lauded for his consistent hardworking performance. People, this is the revolution of SPURS basketball.. Let Malik go already.. cut the cord.

[Iron Giant]

Y'all need to lay off Malik--he brought quality cheesesteaks to San Antonio. The availability of quality cheesesteaks makes any discussion of his basketball ability or contract value moot.

Cheesesteaks....good.

[SPARKY]

What if Scola doesn't pan out? Then you are stuck without a reserve big other than 47 year old Robert Horry and 67 year old Tony Massenburg.

Maybe the Spurs can get a Jason Collier. I hear he's 7 feet tall.

7 feet tall, people. That means he's real good. Yeah.

[SequSpur]

Sparky,

Its simple Malik Rose Sucks. Brent Barry has had a very good career and is paid accordingly. Is he comfortable with the Spurs not yet? Does he deserve a chance? Hell yeah. Does Malik deserve a chance? Dude has used up his nine lives.

Malik is overpaid and overrated.

Nothing more nothing less. Black and white. Really nothing to break down.

[T Park]

can hit a j from 15 feet out

Another thing on the long list of things Malik THINKS he can do, but cant.

[SPARKY]

And Rose hasn't had a good career? Man where you even paying attention during the fucking playoffs over the last 6 years?

Just shut up already and stick to worrying about corn in toilet bowls or whatever.

[SPARKY]

Another thing on the long list of things Malik THINKS he can do, but cant.

Ah yes, height, then jumpshot. The refuge of the clueless.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Malik is 6'7"(more around 6'5

It's pretty widely known around these parts that Malik is six foot three and a half.

God I'd love for Malik to go anywhere in the West where we could play him a couple of times a year.

It'd be worth it just to see Sparky/Marcus/and all his other aliases come on here and marvel about Tim dominating such a tough post defender as Rose.

[SPARKY]

Yes, let's hope that Malik leaves and so we can watch him work Rasho up and down the court 4 times a season. That would be fucking awesome.

Better yet, we could sit back and think how wonderful it is that Peter Holt and friends have a few more mil in their pocket, while the Spurs are struggling to find a reserve big.

Can't wait you fucking morons.

[SequSpur]

Sparky = Marcus =Spursfan ????

[T Park]

Yup Sequ.

Yet another name, and once again, his "retirement" is short lived.

He cant stand not being the center of attention.

[SPARKY]

Oh no now I am the boogeyman.

[T Park]

No your just an attention whore.


Truth hurts Paris?

[SPARKY]

Oh no now he's really angry.

[smeagol]

When I got to the third page of this thread, it suddenly hit me . . . it's MB again!

Man, you are pathetic. You claim that everybody who posts here is a moron, you shout out at the top of your lungs that you are leaving for good, and two weeks later you come back as somebody else. Sad.

Going back to the topic. I have only one thing to add. All your points about Scola, might be true. But then again, they might not. He might me a flop, or he might be really good. The only hard fact is that he is doing well in Europe and he did extremely well in the Olympics. How he will pan out in the NBA is anybody's guess.

As for Malik, everybody can see how he is doing in the NBA. IMO, lately he has been sucking ass. Pop seems to think so too. And most of the fans that post here agree.

Even Sequ sees this. The math is easy. Cut Malik loose and get Scola for less then half the price next year.

[manustarting2gd]

Yes, let's hope that Malik leaves and so we can watch him work Rasho up and down the court 4 times a season. That would be fucking awesome.

Better yet, we could sit back and think how wonderful it is that Peter Holt and friends have a few more mil in their pocket, while the Spurs are struggling to find a reserve big.

Can't wait you fucking morons.



Sparky, what the hell do you think we're doing now about a reserve big..cause it sure aint the 04-05 Malik. No, no.. I'm sorry he's the best reserve big we have and he's real reliable in the post. HELL FUCKIN NO. Tony Massenberg has played better than Malik this season. Period.

[SPARKY]

Oh no smeagol has added nothing to this thread. Just what this thread needs an Argentine who wasn't a Spurs fan prior to 2002 to tell me about Malik Rose.

[SPARKY]

Sparky, what the hell do you think we're doing now about a reserve big..cause it sure aint the 04-05 Malik. No, no.. I'm sorry he's the best reserve big we have and he's real reliable in the post. HELL FUCKIN NO. Tony Massenberg has played better than Malik this season. Period.

Oh please. The man hasn't even had a shot. Pop's not infalliable you know.

[ducks]

rose has been given a big shot

last year rose admited he quit trying

people no matter who should never do that even if you are not a nba player

he lost all my respect when he admitted that

[Dex]

Rose has had 'his shot'. Rose has had a plethora of 'shots'. He's had 5 years to form a niche in the rotation. He had the first 20 games of this season to prove he was worthy of being the first big man off of the Spurs bench. Pop had given him that spot BECAUSE of everything he has done for the organization in the past, because if memory serves correctly, Malik Rose wasn't exactly popping fireworks at the end of last season.

He lost that spot because of his bad play and his poor decision making, not because of his contract.

BTW Sparky, the whole "I'm right and you're wrong" attitude gets really old really fast, especially when you're trying to fend off like five people on ten posts who are all making more valid points than yourself. Not to mention the fact that they debate with a slight bit of etiquette and don't have to resort to name calling, accusation throwing, or pulling out the race card. :rolleyes

I haven't even been a part of this argument, and I'm already sick of it.

[T Park]

Of course, its pop's fault Malik is playin bad.

How could we be so ignorant for not seeing it.

[picnroll]

Rose is a Spur unless the Spurs give a way something to unload him. Either take on a really bad but shorter term contract or package players/draft picks with Rose. Rose has negative NBA trade value. A few Spurs fans love him but no NBA GMs do.

[T Park]

Thats the sad truth Picnroll,

like i said, if Toronto even considered Rose for Marshall, Id do that deal in a new york minute.

[ChumpDumper]

Rose: play him or trade him. That's simple enough.

He's proven he can be beaten out by basically any old fart the Spurs sign. This has happened three years in a row. You can say it's all about the contract -- ok, why not? Why pay a guy $6-7 million a year to any one when you can sign any old fart to play the same or better for less than 1/10 the cost? That's not being cheap -- that's common sense.

It would be nice if the latest fracas in NY between Marbury and KThomas rekindles some Malik/Thomas trade talk -- but I guess we'd have to hear how terrible Thomas is too.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I think I said that on page one of all this crap with Sparky.

[TwoHandJam]

When are you guys going to learn? Malik Rose is a pretty damn valuable big man. In fact, he's so desirable that the other 28 teams in the league are just beating down our door to make a trade for him. He's only been on the block for what - two years now?

We can't give the guy away but somehow all the other GM's in the league are blind to what a gem he is.

This Sparky moron is on to something.

[T Park]

AKA Marcus Cryant.

[SPARKY]

Did the Spurs win a championship last season TwoManJam? Shut the fuck up.

[T Park]

Yup,

malik wouldve changed EVERYTHING!!!!


Damn that Pop for not putting in Malik so Hedo could make 15% of those open threes.

[SPARKY]

Yeah, the Spurs couldn't have used a more physical presence in the frontcourt in that series. Silly me.

[TwoHandJam]

Did the Spurs win a championship last season TwoManJam? Shut the fuck up.
Oh, good retort. Malik was that silver bullet we were missing. His 1 TO/min would have put us over the top. We didn't win last year because Malik didn't play.

BTW, you still haven't rebutted why the other GM's aren't knocking down the door for the Shaq-stopper we were sorely missing last year.

Go put on your hairnet and deep-fry something MB, you dumbfuck.

[T Park]

Spurs couldn't have used a more physical presence in the frontcourt

they couldve used a wingplayer that could shoot without his hands around his neck like the Turkish Turd, your gay lover.


But, once again, him and Bowen and Parker missing open shots, are Rasho and Horry's fault.

Right right.

[SPARKY]

Hey TwoManJam you dumb Canuck go bend over for your butt buddy Walton and call it a night.

Yeah, Rasho and Horry certainly gave the Spurs what they needed up front. No doubt.

[SPARKY]

Well perhaps, TPark, if your boy Rasho could've found his nutsack in that series the Spurs wouldn't have been owned so badly in the paint.

[T Park]

Of course, it was Rasho's fault that Hedo and Bowen were missing open shots.


Sorry to doubt Hedo Turkoglu, the "Proven playoff performer"

[SPARKY]

Oh yes, it didn't matter that LA changed up their D, clamped down on the paint, stopped the penetration of Parker and Manu, and freed up their perimeter guys to close out on the Spurs' shooters a bit more quickly.

It begins and ends with the paint. LA took it over and the Spurs couldn't get it back...and lost the series.

[TwoHandJam]

Hey TwoManJam you dumb Canuck go bend over for your butt buddy Walton and call it a night.

Yeah, Rasho and Horry certainly gave the Spurs what they needed up front. No doubt.
If you honestly believe Malik was key to winning that series last year then you don't even deserve to be educated.

Ignorance is bliss and you're just not worth the time. You'd be much better served leaving the forum and dreaming up new aliases. You've got a gift - don't squander it.

[ChumpDumper]

Really Marcus, you said earlier this year that Malik was benched last year only because of his contract and he got the primary backup role because the Spurs didn't care about the money any more.

Either you were wrong then or you are wrong now. Which is it?

[picnroll]

Oh yes, it didn't matter that LA changed up their D, clamped down on the paint, stopped the penetration of Parker and Manu, and freed up their perimeter guys to close out on the Spurs' shooters a bit more quickly.

It begins and ends with the paint. LA took it over and the Spurs couldn't get it back...and lost the series.
And how exactly was Malik going to counter the Lakers clamping down in the paint on D? Post up Shaq? I'm sure he would have tried a few dozen times. Afterall that's how Malik got the Spalding tatoo on his forehead.

[SPARKY]

If you honestly believe Malik was key to winning that series last year then you don't even deserve to be educated.


Ok very slowly now so you can understand: the series changed into a halfcourt game with the Lakers packing the paint. Instead of Pop responding with a more physical rotation he stubbornly stuck to one that consisted of Rasho Nesterovic and Robert Horry. Anyone with half a clue about the game including a weirdo Canuck and his butt buddy could figure it out that you'd want to go with a little more muscle up front. Duh.



Ignorance is bliss and you're just not worth the time. You'd be much better served leaving the forum and dreaming up new aliases. You've got a gift - don't squander it.


And yet, you just spent the time, poor Canuck. Walton's calling. Don't be late.

[T Park]

series changed into a halfcourt game with the Lakers packing the paint.

Once again,

how does a TOUGH Malik Rose, force Shaq and Malone out of the paint??

Please tell us.

[SPARKY]

And how exactly was Malik going to counter the Lakers clamping down in the paint on D? Post up Shaq? I'm sure he would have tried a few dozen times. Afterall that's how Malik got the Spalding tatoo on his forehead.

Perhaps, just perhaps, by forcing LA to put a body on the other SA big instead of having Shaq free to roam the paint and cut down on Parker's penetration. That's where it starts. SA had very little going on in the paint. Shaq and Malone shut that down. The Spurs had to draw the focus back into the paint.

Your boy Rasho laid a golden egg in that series, no doubt.

[T Park]

Yes, Shaq wouldve been forced to guard that deadly jump shot of Malik's.

Its practically automatic.

[SPARKY]

Can you not read I wrote put a body on him. The Spurs did not take the action inside. They did not force the attention of the Laker bigs. Result: Lakers control paint, stop Spurs penetration, and generally fuck up the Spurs offense.

What part of this do you not understand? Come on, as much shit as you talk this should be easy for you to understand, seeing as how much Spurs basketball you claim to have seen.

[ChumpDumper]

You only have to put a body on a guy if he's a scoring threat. If Malik is going to stand on the free throw line like any big who plays with Duncan, what's the difference?

Nothing.

[T Park]

of course.

Malik in the paint, garunteed to get shaq on him, to

A, block his shot
b. make a stupid pass and turn it over
C. fumble the ball over ot Kobe
D. get a traveling after upfaking 10 times in a row.


Of course, Parker Ginobili and Horry wouldve been WIDEEEE open had that happened.

[T Park]

You only have to put a body on a guy if he's a scoring threat

Malik IS a scoring threat.

He should be the starting center according to Cryant.

[SPARKY]

You only have to put a body on a guy if he's a scoring threat. If Malik is going to stand on the free throw line like any big who plays with Duncan, what's the difference?

Nothing.

Um, you put a body on an offensive player if he's actually near the basket, for starters.

The Spur bigs were not aggressive enough in attacking the basket.

[ChumpDumper]

Um, you put a body on an offensive player if he's actually near the basket.Um, that's where Duncan is. You want to put Malik and his man closer to Tim and firmly in the paint where they can clog any possible driving lane for the guards.

Welcome to Duncan's rookie season.

[T Park]

you put a body on an offensive player if he's actually near the basket, for starters

So, shaq is STILL in the lane, hes just guarding Domalik the Human Blooper Reel.


Makes sense even MORE!!

[T Park]

Welcome to Duncan's rookie season

2000, 2001, 2002, 2004.

if Only Malik had played in those,,,,, oops 3 out of 4 years MUST be wrong.

[SPARKY]

Um, that's where Duncan is. You want to put Malik and his man closer to Tim and firmly in the paint where they can clog any possible driving lane.

Welcome to Duncan's rookie season.

'cept TD's on the other side. He certainly wasn't forcing the action inside so the other big certainly needed to be more assertive and not standing outside admiring the Laker D.

But you're right. Spurs didn't change up the offensive game plan they run with Nesterovic and Horry (nor the expectations either) and paid the price.

[ChumpDumper]

Besides, Marcus, you said all the contract-induced benching was over with. Were you wrong then or are you wrong now?

[T Park]

Of course.

a 6'5 forward going up against Shaq and Malone for dunks and layups makes perfect sense.

Of course he wont admit hes wrong Chump. Show me somwhere he admitted that.

[SPARKY]

So, shaq is STILL in the lane, hes just guarding Domalik the Human Blooper Reel.


Makes sense even MORE!!


So he's forced to pay attention to the other big instead of just playing safety, waiting to help TD's man shut him down should he move into the paint as well as to cut off penetration from the perimeter.

The series would have been much different if the big opposite Duncan was willing to go into the paint and mix it up. Unfortunately that burden fell upon the shoulders of Rasho Nesterovic and Robert Horry.

[ChumpDumper]

'cept TD's on the other side.No, he's at the free throw line like Duncan's front court mates have been since his second season. Do you actually watch Spurs basketball? We won two championships with a center parked up at the free throw line. It's called spacing.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Wow put him on the other side. That means the guy would have to go, what, a whole two steps to make life hell for Duncan. Such offensive insight.

[SPARKY]

Of course.

a 6'5 forward going up against Shaq and Malone for dunks and layups makes perfect sense.

Of course he wont admit hes wrong Chump. Show me somwhere he admitted that.

Malik's entire career has been about him playing aggressively in the paint. Have you not been paying attention?

[SPARKY]

No, he's at the free throw line like Duncan's front court mates have been since his second season. Do you actually watch Spurs basketball? We won two championships with a center parked up at the free throw line. It's called spacing.

Did you actually watch that series? Spacing was thrown out the window once LA decided to have Shaq and Malone pack the paint. The Lakers' D was built on the other big standing at the top of the key and out of the way. The Lakers shut the Spurs penetration down and they were more than happy to see the Spurs park their other big 12 feet from the rim.

Pop done F'ed up, per his stubborn normal self.

[ChumpDumper]

Wow put him on the other side. That means the guy would have to go, what, a whole two steps to make life hell for Duncan.No defensive 3-second calls either.

Ever.

Awesome.

[T Park]

Malik's entire career has been about him playing aggressively in the paint. Have you not been paying attention?

Yeah, ive seen him repeatedly get shot after shot reject, and fumble balls out of bounds, turn the ball over with stupid passes after getting trapped under the rim.


but, that wouldve made Hedo make his wide open threes.

Right right right.

[SPARKY]

LA was more than happy to get a couple defensive 3s in that series so long as the Spurs wanted to keep Rasho/Horry out of the way.

Once LA slowed the game down and packed the paint the Spurs did not respond. Some would call it a coaching failure, but Spurs fans can't ever see Pop failing, so obviously it was, yes of course, that old standby, "cold shooting"...

[ChumpDumper]

The Lakers shut the Spurs penetration downI agree the Spurs missed many open shots -- the key word is open so don't try any of that weak "the Lakers could close out faster" crap because an OPEN SHOT IS AN OPEN SHOT.

If you try that weak shit, change back to your Marcus screen name and tell us why it wasn't about the contract earlier this season.

[SPARKY]

Yeah, ive seen him repeatedly get shot after shot reject, and fumble balls out of bounds, turn the ball over with stupid passes after getting trapped under the rim.


but, that wouldve made Hedo make his wide open threes.

Right right right.

Yeah, that's been Malik in the postseason. No doubt.

[SPARKY]

The looks weren't as good as what they got in the 2003 series. Why? Again, because it gets back to the paint. The Spurs in 2003 had the best frontcourt rotation they ever had against the Lakers and LA had just about the worst, a frontcourt which featured Robert Horry starting at the 4.

Move ahead to 2004, Spurs replace Robinson, Rose, and Willis with pretty much Rasho and Horry. Lakers replace Horry with a healthy Malone. Suddenly the Spurs' shooting and penetration suffers once Shaq and Malone play the kind of interior D they are capable of.

[T Park]

Its been Malik from day 1 Marcus thats correct.

[ChumpDumper]

"Wide open shots are not open shots"

-- Sparkus

[SPARKY]

Why'd Manu and Bowen shoot much worse in 2004? Did they suddenly become worse shooters in 2004? Or perhaps maybe, just maybe, they faced a tougher defense? No, that would make sense.

[T Park]

they faced a tougher defense

They faced Kobe and Devean George, whats the excuse again??

They didnt have a better defense, they just didnt shoot as well.

PLAIN AND SIMPLE.


Goddamnt they missed open fuckin shots.

Bowen, Turkoidiot, Horry.

They just missed shots.


WIDE FUCKING OPEN.

Malone wasnt the reason, Kobe wasnt, Payton sure as hell wasnt.

They missed OPEN shots, plaing and simple.


Making excuse for Malik Rose and Hedo fucking Turkoglu is horse shit.

[ChumpDumper]

Why does no one shoot exactly the same every game?

Look, you're going to get 10 good minutes out of Malik vs. Shaq and Malone before he fouls out. It's just as easy to say he wouldn't have made a difference as saying he would've.

Big deal.

Why is he benched now? If it's because of the contract, why wasn't he benched all year?

[SPARKY]

Oh yes, of course. While the Lakers shut down the Spurs' offense to minimal penetration and one and done on most possessions that did not translate into any effect on the Spurs shooters. Get real.

Malik's managed to hold his own in the paint against a Shaq led frontcourt before. The Spurs clearly needed to be more physical up front in that series. You don't count on Rasho Nesterovic and Robert Horry to lead you down that path.

[T Park]

[QUOTE]Malik's managed to hold his own in the paint against a Shaq led frontcourt before[QUOTE]

Yup, 01 and 02 were very very successfull.

[ChumpDumper]

Why is he benched now? If it's because of the contract, why wasn't he benched all year?

[SPARKY]

Business as usual.

[T Park]

No answer. Typical.

[SPARKY]

[QUOTE]Malik's managed to hold his own in the paint against a Shaq led frontcourt before[QUOTE]

Yup, 01 and 02 were very very successfull.

The Spurs didn't have the guards with the ability to penetrate back then that they have now.

[Warlord23]

Sparky, in your argument you basically make these 2 points:
1) If we had Malik (or any big man tougher than Rasho/Horry) inside, then LA's bigs wouldn't have the luxury to roam the paint and stop our guards penetrating
2) If we had Malik, our 3-pt shooters would have shot much better.

I agree with the first point in principle: it's one big difference between having the Twin Towers in 2003 and having Tim + Rasho now; however the difference is that DRob was regarded as a threat in the paint, although a depleted one somewhat. If defenders tried to stop our guard penetration, DRob could collect passes and finish strong inside; Rasho doesn't finish strong; but Malik on the other hand, has shown that he is turnover prone this year. (please note that I'm saying this in this year's context, not for his whole career). So I'm not sure if he's the threat upfront that'd bother opposition defenses too much.

Regarding the 2nd point, I don't think Malik would play too big a part in how our outside shooters perform. Remember, it took Steve Kerr to make some really big shots in both the WCF and the Finals. And we had SJax, who showed little fear. The Spurs' outside shooting is very much a mental thing; Hedo just couldn't get it done in crunch time; I doubt he'd have done any better if it was DRob in there instead of Rasho. This year, if Brent Barry doesn't hit the shots (he's started making them nowadays) in the playoffs, he'll have only himself to blame. Malik isn't the silver bullet here, nor is any other big man going to radically influence our 3 pt %.

In summary, your first point is valid, but I don't think Malik is the answer there (given how he's playing this season).

[T Park]

The Spurs didn't have the guards with the ability to penetrate back then that they have now

Pentrate in the lane, draw the bigs.

what is difference about that than what happened in 04.

[T Park]

DRob could collect passes and finish strong inside

David Robinson was not known for finishing strong, try again.

[T Park]

If we had Malik (or any big man tougher than Rasho/Horry) inside, then LA's bigs wouldn't have the luxury to roam the paint and stop our guards penetrating

How does Malik, being on Shaq, make the offense easier.

How is he drawing Shaq and Malone out of the paint??

Please answer that.

[Warlord23]

David Robinson was not known for finishing strong, try again.

That could be true; you've watched far more of his games than me. But I think the opposition center would be far more wary of leaving Drob alone to stop penetrating guards, than he would if it were Horry/Rasho.

[Warlord23]

How does Malik, being on Shaq, make the offense easier.

How is he drawing Shaq and Malone out of the paint??

Please answer that.


Exactly my point. Although the problem exists, I don't think Malik is the solution. Malone might be, though.

[T Park]

Malone might be

Malone is retiring forget it.


That could be true; you've watched far more of his games than me. But I think the opposition center would be far more wary of leaving Drob alone to stop penetrating guards, than he would if it were Horry/Rasho

Of course they would.

David Robinson was a top 50 all time NBA Player.

Rasho and Horry are just role players.

[SPARKY]

Sparky,

In summary, your first point is valid, but I don't think Malik is the answer there (given how he's playing this season).

The thing is, the Spurs stubbornly stuck with a rotation more suited to an uptempo game when a change was needed. Considering that the starting center is still Rasho and it appears the Spurs are moving to using Horry as the first big off the bench, then we are in the same situation again this season.

The one thing the Spurs have going for them is that at least out West there isn't much of a threat of facing the type of frontcourt that they did in the LA series, though it wasn't exactly pleasant earlier this year watching a Danny Fortson and a bunch of misfits pretty much work the Spurs over in the paint.

Looking out East there is more cause for concern. If Detroit can get their act together they are capable of playing the style of D that LA did last postseason.

Pop's stubborness must end.

[Warlord23]

Sparky, do you think giving Malik more minutes alongside Tim would be enough against Fortson & Co., or the Wallaces, or Shaq + any frontcourt acquisition Miami might make? Doesn't he seem too turnover-prone and lacking in confidence?

TPark, fair enough, Rasho and Horry are not DRob. Given that, how do you propose to solve the problem of defenses clogging up the paint against the Spurs?

[ChumpDumper]

how do you propose to solve the problem of defenses clogging up the paint against the Spurs?Hit wide open shots.

And don't play teams that have a healthy Karl Malone.

We're halfway there.

[T Park]

TPark, fair enough, Rasho and Horry are not DRob. Given that, how do you propose to solve the problem of defenses clogging up the paint against the Spurs?

easy. Hit your outside shots.

Barry, Bowen, Parker, Ginobili, have to hit htere shots.

But ball movement, some motion mixed in with an agressive, moving Duncan denote it.


Watch last night's game. THey TRIED To pack, but couldnt.

[SPARKY]

I think Rose's confidence problems are borne out of his on again, off again BS with Pop. All things considered, Malik is the best fit as the backup big on the roster. He's strong enough to play inside, yet mobile enough to play in the transition game. When you have a finesse style center like Rasho you need a little more muscle coming off the bench.

[ChumpDumper]

So a Hedo-type welfare plan is in order?

Play him or trade him.

Too bad we didn't keep Haslem.

[SPARKY]

Shooting is a byproduct of your post game and penetration. If the Spurs are stuck standing around waiting for something to happen again against a team with a strong interior D it's going to be another disappointing postseason.

[ChumpDumper]

Forgive Sparkus, he's never heard of a pick and roll.

[SPARKY]

Barry got such a "plan" a few weeks ago.

Rose is a proven postseason player.

[Warlord23]

ChumpDumper, the question is, is Donyell Marshall the right guy? If we look to move Rose, then shouldn't we try to bring an inside presence to replace him? Marshall would be very useful playing PF against small-ball teams like Phx, but doesn't it come down to which is the best line-up against teams which are big upfront? Would he be enough against Detroit, who have McDyess off the bench in addition to the Wallaces?

[SPARKY]

Forgive Sparkus, he's never heard of a pick and roll.

Which would be dependent upon penetration. Next. Actually, I digress but it seems as though you could use some penetration of a different variety. I hear TPark is free, maybe you and he can work something out.

[ChumpDumper]

Tell me Sparkus, would you go for a Malik for KThomas trade?

[T Park]

Too bad we didn't keep Haslem.[QUOTE]

A freakin men.

I wince at every Miami heat game, when I think of how good this team would be, with Haslem being the starter, Rasho Horry and Malik off the bench.

OUCH OUCH OUCH!!!!

Rose is a proven postseason player[QUOTE]

1 playoffs, does not a postseason player make.

Robert Horry IS a proven player I agree.

[ChumpDumper]

Which would be dependent upon penetration. Next.Yes, there is so much penetration in high pick and rolls.
ChumpDumper, the question is, is Donyell Marshall the right guy? If we look to move Rose, then shouldn't we try to bring an inside presence to replace him?Marshall played a lot of center in Toronto to keep Bosh at PF. He's quite versatile. I say get the Spurs someone who might be able to get off the bench.

That said, I don't think Toronto's GM is that stupid. He should be able to do much better.

[SPARKY]

Well, he looks the part of a bigman, he's got that ever important 6'10" height and, oh yes, he can hit the occassional J. But other than that he's not too interesting. Also doesn't offer the Spurs any hope of cutting salary.

[T Park]

McDyess off the bench in addition to the Wallaces?

his D on McDeyss would be fine.

Ben Wallace could be used for Marshall, all you do is box him out, its not like hes gonna hit a jump shot or something.

if Rasheed is giving problems? Put Horry on him.

Rasheed is not exactly Shaq when it comes to offense.

[T Park]

Also doesn't offer the Spurs any hope of cutting salary.

Yeah, it would shoot down alot of your Bullshit theorys right??

[Kori Ellis]

Also doesn't offer the Spurs any hope of cutting salary.

Isn't Marshall in the last year of his contract?

[ChumpDumper]

But other than that he's not too interesting.So a guy averaging a double-double most of the year and actually guards big centers as a matter of course does nothing for you. Malik is better....

Go penetrate yourself.

[ChumpDumper]

We're talking Thomas.

[Kori Ellis]

Oh my bad, I didn't see your question.

[SPARKY]

Wow, a guy getting a lot of minutes on a lottery bound team.

[T Park]

a guy that could fill the Spurs's only weakness, rebound, and actually score and not be a dumbfuck off the bench.

Yeah who needs that shit.

[ChumpDumper]

Wow, a guy getting a lot of minutes on a lottery bound team.So Troy Murphy sucks. Understood. What were you thinking?

[SPARKY]

Fuck, give Malik 30+ minutes a night in the East I am sure he could put up 10 and 9. Big deal.

[SPARKY]

So Troy Murphy sucks. Understood. What were you thinking?

Rasho Nesterovic sucks more is what I was thinking. Your imaginary girlfriend mustve really sprayed food all over the place tonight. Is that why you are so grumpy? Oh wait, you're always grumpy.

[ChumpDumper]

Fuck, give Malik 30+ minutes a night in the East I am sure he could put up 10 and 9. Big deal.Let's hope Zeke thinks the same thing so someone can actually earn that salary here.

[SPARKY]

Spurs won't take back more salary for Lik.

[ChumpDumper]

Rasho Nesterovic sucks more is what I was thinking. Your imaginary girlfriend mustve really sprayed food all over the place tonight. Is that why you are so grumpy? Oh wait, you're always grumpy.And you're always retiring and sneaking back using different screen names like a cowardly bitch. You suck more is what I was thinking.

[ChumpDumper]

Spurs won't take back more salary for Lik.But it wasn't about the contract earlier this year according to you.

Malik was a bargain!

Wow.

[SPARKY]

Gosh that sounds horrible. A mortal sin, no doubt.

[ChumpDumper]

Nope, sounds like a coward.

Go get another name, junior. This one's been punked too many times.

[SPARKY]

But it wasn't about the contract earlier this year according to you.

Malik was a bargain!

Wow.


The Spurs turned down an offer is all I said. Yes, compared to what Cardinal and Foyle got last summer I'd say Rose's contract is more attractive.

[SPARKY]

Nope, sounds like a coward.

Go get another name, junior. This one's been punked too many times.

Pssst, this is a messageboard. It's worth about as much as your imaginary girlfriend. But if you take things so seriously more power to you and your ulcer.

[ChumpDumper]

The Spurs turned down an offer is all I said. God, just make another screen name so you don't have to keep lying already.
Yes, compared to what Cardinal and Foyle got last summer I'd say Rose's contract is more attractive.Not if he gets beat out by every old fart signed by this team and doesn't play.

Play him or trade him.

[ChumpDumper]

Pssst, this is a messageboard.Pssst, you're a liar.

[SPARKY]

I said that apparently the Spurs had decided that they would keep him for now. No lie. But I'm glad you are out to prove that I "lied". I mean more power to you.

[SPARKY]

Pssst, you're a liar.

Pssst, this is a messageboard. Significance is low, unless you are a hard up bitch with an imaginary girlfriend who spits food and presumably lives in a barn.

[remingtonbo2001]

Im still not sure how you can compare two players, shoulder to shoulder, which play for two entirely different teams... with one recieving more minutes than the other....yeah, Malik aint no Magic Johnson.....but you speak of him as if Uah Bleb should come off the bench before him.....It seems like we've been through this all before...Malik isnt a bad player...actually it would take less....to fit Malik back into the rotation....then to take on another player....remember last year when we brought on Charlie Ward....oh yeah he was proven player....or so I was told....That move took a lot away from the Spurs...it took away the developement of Jason Hart as well as Alex Garcia....I would be very hesitant to make a move during the season....nothing good has happened when the spurs made a midseason trade.....this issue needs to be ridden out into the off-season.....Adding Marshall just adds another Horry, yes a little younger, but with less experience, I would rather keep Malik and be diverse....Dont forget lockeroom leadership.....No one knows what role Malik plays in the locker room except for the players and coaches themselves....Im not talking about speculation...or I heard he's like this or like that.....and what about Marshall? How well would he jell with our team, with only a half season left? Would he except his role.....be it whatever Pop wants him to do....why is Toronto eager to trade him? Too many questions, not enough answers.....I would not be willing to risk the chance of messing with team chemistry and loosing in the 2005 post season, just because we thought a player was overpaid and we wanted him off of our books....if anything wait until the offseason

[ChumpDumper]

Significance is low, unless--unless you want to be taken seriously or maintain any credibility whatsoever. If you don't, that's your business -- but you were exposed a long time ago.

[SPARKY]

But what if I don't give a fuck and think that people like you who take this shit so seriously need to spend more time with their imaginary girlfriend?

:)

[TDrules01]

if you want to space the floor and have the middle open up then you must have good perimeter shooters. horry he is seen by many player as a playoff clutch performer, and i think lakers knew they had to watch out for him, malik wasnt going to do shit...
also if you recall horry played great agains memphis just lost the touch with the long lay off they had.

all i can say is if the lakers traded the most dominant player in the history of the nba SPARKY think plz where does that leave malik.

[TDrules01]

sparky, use ur brain thats what its for.

[ChumpDumper]

But what if I don't give a fuckThen you wouldn't respond.

[Dex]

This post is just asking for a...
http://members.boards.ie/patrick/Pwned.jpg

Careful. He might make fun of your 'imaginary girlfriend' for a fourth time.

[SPARKY]

Actually, I just don't give a fuck.