Manu coming back to SA today

He was supposed to be back July 7 to do further studies on his ankle, but the Argentina team doctor said he recovered quickly, and that he finished the treatment last Friday. He said the swelling and pain are gone. Manu is supposed to meet with Spurs team doctors to talk about his recovery. He will be in SA for just a day or two only, because he will be back in Argentina by Friday, when he is to attend a ceremony where the President of Argentina is going to present him with the Argentina flag he is to carry at the Olympic games.

The swelling and pain are gone in his ankle are gone like the pain and swelling was gone in Tony parker's foot.

Come home, STAY HOME GINOBILI DAMNT!!!

"......the Argentina team doctor said he recovered quickly."

I call bullshit.

Will the doctor in San Antonio have to clear him before he will play?

I just don't think he could have recovered that quickly when a week ago Pop was saying surgery may be an option....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brespursfan20

Will the doctor in San Antonio have to clear him before he will play?

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Play..where? Here in SA? Yes. Overseas? No, that's not our call.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by completely deck

Play..where? Here in SA? Yes. Overseas? No, that's not our call.

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The hell it isn't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brespursfan20

Will the doctor in San Antonio have to clear him before he will play?

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Well, I doubt he'll be coming to San Antonio if he didn't at least require the opinion of the Spurs doctors.

BTW, I lifted the news from here (spanish): LINK

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Twisted_Dawg

"......the Argentina team doctor said he recovered quickly."

I call bullshit.

---

Yeah, those Argie doctors suck!

The only good doctors are American, everybody knows that . . .

Didn't this happen with Parker? The French doctors said he was okay and the Spurs brought him back to SA to check him out themselves? And, if I remember right, didn't the Spurs doctors think he wasn't as okay as the French doctors thought?

If an Argentine doctor advised Manu to skip the Olympics, his whole family would come up missing.

Obviously he cares what the doctor from San Antonio thinks or he wouldn't be back to be examined.....hopefully he will advise him not to play.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timvp

If an Argentine doctor advised Manu to skip the Olympics, his whole family would come up missing.

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To be honest with you, it's not that bad. He was actually seriously considering not going when he first arrived in Buenos Aires.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timvp

If an Argentine doctor advised Manu to skip the Olympics, his whole family would come up missing.

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:lol

Sad but true.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by duncan228

Didn't this happen with Parker? The French doctors said he was okay and the Spurs brought him back to SA to check him out themselves? And, if I remember right, didn't the Spurs doctors think he wasn't as okay as the French doctors thought?

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Yup.

switch the countries and the players and you've got the same scenario

Thanks T Park. I wasn't sure if I was remembering it right.

So if the Spurs doctors say that he isn't ready to play we should believe them? :lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manu'sMagicalLeftHand

So if the Spurs doctors say that he isn't ready to play we should believe them? :lmao

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Damn straight.

They are the ones paying him millions and would suffer the consequences if he got hurt.

If he gets hurt for Argentina they just shrug their shoulders and say "Eh, oh well"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T Park

Damn straight.

They are the ones paying him millions and would suffer the consequences if he got hurt.

If he gets hurt for Argentina they just shrug their shoulders and say "Eh, oh well"

---

Your logic is twisted. Money is what makes people lie. If they care so much about the millions the Spurs are spending, then they're going to say that Manu isn't healthy no matter what his real condition is.

I'd probably prefer Ginobili sit this summer out, but I won't pretend I'm not excited to see how Argentina does in the Olympics. If he goes, I hope he plays his heart out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manu'sMagicalLeftHand

Your logic is twisted. Money is what makes people lie. If they care so much about the millions the Spurs are spending, then they're going to say that Manu isn't healthy no matter what his real condition is.

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Oh well.

The olympics are extra curricular BS anyways.

show loyalty to the team that took a chance and gave you a huge ass contract.

At the time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T Park

Oh well.

The olympics are extra curricular BS anyways.

show loyalty to the team that took a chance and gave you a huge ass contract.

At the time.

---

The team that took a chance? The last Olympics made Ginobili a superstar. That 'extra-curricular BS' is what makes Manu a likely Hall of Famer and not just a one-time NBA all-star.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ATX Spur

The team that took a chance? The last Olympics made Ginobili a superstar. That 'extra-curricular BS' is what makes Manu a likely Hall of Famer and not just a one-time NBA all-star.

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The last olympics were after he signed the big contract.

I could care less about what makes him a hall of famer, outside of what he does in San antonio.

nice .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kobe™

nice .

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How's it going, pinky? ;)

Ok, TPark. If money's the law and what it all comes down to... how much should the Spurs pay to the Argentinian Basketball Confederation for developing Ginobili? That's where he learned how to play, and where he spent 65% of his career. If it's about money, then the Spurs are enjoying an asset that belongs to the Argentinian league just because they have more money, so they should pay some kind of compensation or tax.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T Park

I could care less about what makes him a hall of famer, outside of what he does in San antonio.

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That's your right, but it's what makes you more a blind homer than a basketball fan.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T Park

Oh well.

The olympics are extra curricular BS anyways.

show loyalty to the team that took a chance and gave you a huge ass contract.

At the time.

---

Yeah, pick a city over a nation Manu, you can do it!!! You just have to let down every single family member you have, no biggie.:depressed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElNono

when he is to attend a ceremony where the President of Argentina is going to present him with the Argentina flag he is to carry at the Olympic games.

---

Is Manu carrying the flag during the opening ceremonies? That's a huge honor.

It's really sad that every thread started about Manu these days turns into a Spurs vs. Olympics thread.

So the NT Doc wants Manu to play so he lies about Manu's health while being fully aware that Manu is going to SA to get his ankle checked by Spurs Docs, so they will be able to see with their own eyes whether Manu's ankle has in fact healed or not. There's an alternative: the Arg. doctors are being honest but incompetent, as any doctors outside the US seem to be. This you all find perfectly believable.

But, just as easily you could say that it's Pop who's being dishonest. He wants Manu out of the Olympics no matter what but he can't order Manu not to go. So he puts pressure on him in every way he can, trying to "persuade" him with an early contract extension (and the corresponding threat to withdraw from the negotiations should Manu choose to play in the Oympics) and making it look like a very serious injury, even suggesting the need for surgery. This option has never even crossed your mind.

Here's what I think:
- Manu may not be a 100% come August, but he will be close to that and able to play without aggravating his injury.
- Manu is under pressure from both sides, but he wants to play. The fact that he's been voted to carry the flag is not innocent IMO, is the Olympic Committee's way of lending Manu a hand in his "struggle" against Spurs officials.
- This is most probably going to be Manu's last international tournament and I think this is the best way to retire from the NT.
- Many (maybe most) American sports fans have no clue of what it means for an athlete (a non-American athlete, that is) to represent his country. It is a big thing. This are the REAL World Championships.

Saludos.

http://www.poster.net/che-guevara/ch...it-5001050.jpg

Argentinian doctor pronounces Manu Ginobili "healed" after radical therapy.

"You thought he went left before? You ain't seen nothin' yet!"

I don't see a scenario in which Manu won't play. He straight up said winning an Olympic gold medal this year was more important than winning an NBA championship this year. Ginobili played through the injury through the NBA playoffs? No way he won't do the same in the Olympics, especially considering it will have to be feeling better -- at least to some degree.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marhq

So the NT Doc wants Manu to play so he lies about Manu's health while being fully aware that Manu is going to SA to get his ankle checked by Spurs Docs, so they will be able to see with their own eyes whether Manu's ankle has in fact healed or not. There's an alternative: the Arg. doctors are being honest but incompetent, as any doctors outside the US seem to be. This you all find perfectly believable.

---

He is healthy enough to rush his trip and get the OK ASAP to start participating from the friendly matches where the Golden Generation will get all love from its people... The argentinean federation will set up games NBA showtime style at the Luna Park... Manu saw it and missed it last year before the pre olympics.. there is NO WAY he is going to miss that.. Nike wouldn't let that happen either

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marhq

But, just as easily you could say that it's Pop who's being dishonest. He wants Manu out of the Olympics no matter what but he can't order Manu not to go. So he puts pressure on him in every way he can, trying to "persuade" him with an early contract extension (and the corresponding threat to withdraw from the negotiations should Manu choose to play in the Oympics) and making it look like a very serious injury, even suggesting the need for surgery. This option has never even crossed your mind.

---

Pop is just being extra cautions... Manu not healthy next playoffs means no Ring....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marhq

Here's what I think:
- Manu may not be a 100% come August, but he will be close to that and able to play without aggravating his injury.

---

He is already close to 100% otherwise he wouldn't be flying to SAT a week BEFORE than what was scheduled

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marhq

- Manu is under pressure from both sides, but he wants to play. The fact that he's been voted to carry the flag is not innocent IMO, is the Olympic Committee's way of lending Manu a hand in his "struggle" against Spurs officials.

---

Manu carrying the Flag will be VERY special for him and the whole Olympics organization. That would not force him to play if he's not healthy. He is passionate not stupid. He has always been extra careful and Pop and RC trusts his professionalism

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marhq

- This is most probably going to be Manu's last international tournament and I think this is the best way to retire from the NT.

---

Manu already said this won;t be the last tournament he will play.. i asume he'd like to retire after Turkey's World Cup in 2010 where he'd have his last shot at winning that tournament and lock HOF status

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Marhq

- Many (maybe most) American sports fans have no clue of what it means for an athlete (a non-American athlete, that is) to represent his country. It is a big thing. This are the REAL World Championships.

---

I disagree with this. American Sports fans do not like to see Lebron ousted in semi finals like the last two hoops big tournaments

And hopefully the Arg doctors were being honest.

The Express News chimes in...

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b....14e841b3.html

Olympics: Ginobili to carry flag at opening ceremony
San Antonio Express-News

The Spurs’ Manu Ginobili has been elected the flagbearer for Argentina at the opening ceremonies at the Olympics next month in Beijing.

The country’s 19-member Olympic Committee chose Ginobili, whose status for playing in the Games is still in doubt, over four other athletes. The country’s only gold medal at the 2004 Olympics came in men’s basketball, led by Ginobili.

According to reports from Argentine newspapers, Ginobili will have an MRI on his left ankle in San Antonio next week.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manufan909

Yeah, pick a city over a nation Manu, you can do it!!! You just have to let down every single family member you have, no biggie.:depressed

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If that family likes the living that Ginobili's contract from SA has gotten them, they would understand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ATX Spur

That's your right, but it's what makes you more a blind homer than a basketball fan.

---

Uh wrong.

It makes me a paying customer that demands to see the product I pay for be at 100%.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Manu'sMagicalLeftHand

Ok, TPark. If money's the law and what it all comes down to... how much should the Spurs pay to the Argentinian Basketball Confederation for developing Ginobili? That's where he learned how to play, and where he spent 65% of his career. If it's about money, then the Spurs are enjoying an asset that belongs to the Argentinian league just because they have more money, so they should pay some kind of compensation or tax.

---

Fail.

Totally different, totally wrong.

Give up.

It's typical American arrogance and ignorance to assume they have all the good doctors just the way they once assumed they had all the good basketball players. It's a big world, no matter how many small-minded people like TPark live in it. The doctors and trainers for the Argentina NT may very well be more compe tent than the Spurs docs.

If I read and understood it correctly, it was the SPURS DOCTORS WHO COMPLETELY MISDIAGNOSED Manu's original ankle injury and it cost him three weeks late in the regular season and the playoffs and their treatment was completely ineffective. If they diagnosed and treated it right the first time, Manu could very well have been healthy for the Lakers series.

Manu has every reason to mistrust the Spurs medical staff after that and if they're going to use childish negotiating ploys like "We might extend your contract, but if you decide to play in the Olympics, we'll see what happens..." well then I wouldn't blame him at all for maybe having his agent look for other suitors.

Ginobili has taken less money to stay with the Spurs once already and he has repeatedly adjusted his role to fit the team's wishes, being shuttled back and forth from the starting lineup without complaint. He has sacrificed and given all he's got for this team and it's a shame that some of the higher ups and the fans take it for granted.

TPark's (and some others) attitudes about Manu and the Olympics are selfish and shameful. There is no greater honor for an athlete than to represent their country. Hundreds of thousands of athletes can only dream of being asked and for the life of me I can't believe a tiny fraction of them actually refuse. No matter how much money you make at your job, at the end you owe everything you have to your homeland and the sacrifice of all the people who came before you. Refusing an Olympic invitation to me is akin to being a draft dodger (refusing a call for national duty) and I'm pretty sure TPark feels very differently about people who do that.

What truly astonishes me is how hypocritical TPark and some of you others are being. Suppose after the '03-04 season Manu took the Nuggets offer instead of the Spurs. From a business standpoint, it would've been hard to blame him, they offered more money. TPark and everyone else would've called him a traitor and disloyal and greedy and a mercenary and a hundred other bad things. But Manu made the right decision and showed he cares about something besides money.

So now, when he's doing something else that doesn't involve money, people bitch. You people want it both ways. You want guys to only be dedicated to the Spurs and no one else when the Spurs don't even pay the big three what they're worth. Manu (and Tony) should be max deal players and both combined make less than Stephon Marbury, so save it with your economic bullshit, TPark. Neither one of them have held out and demanded to have their contracts ripped up and negotiated and I don't see the Spurs FO doing so either.

I very strongly doubt Manu Ginobili wanted to become a basketball player to make lots of money and I don't think it's the money that motivates him now. He wants to win as much as he can, as often as he can, whether it's the NBA, the Olympics, or pickup games. It's how he's wired and it makes him who he is. To tell him not to play is to tell him to become a different person in the offseason, to disown his past, disown his nature, disown his culture and disown his heritage. You basically want him to become some kind of whore. Maybe next year Ginobili should give the Spurs precisely 9M worth of NBA production since it's all about the money in TPark's world. I'm sure their fans wouldn't mind that at all...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by roycrikside

If I read and understood it correctly, it was the SPURS DOCTORS WHO COMPLETELY MISDIAGNOSED Manu's original ankle injury and it cost him three weeks late in the regular season and the playoffs and their treatment was completely ineffective. If they diagnosed and treated it right the first time, Manu could very well have been healthy for the Lakers series.

---

:wow
I somehow thought about this... i dunno if Sevening could have done any better than what he did...

on the other hand...roycrkside... if i was a moderator here i would give you a Spur for this post of yours... bad ass stuff bro or sista'... :tu

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by duncan228

The Express News chimes in...

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/b....14e841b3.html

Olympics: Ginobili to carry flag at opening ceremony
San Antonio Express-News
...The country’s only gold medal at the 2004 Olympics came in men’s basketball, led by Ginobili.

---

If I recall correctly, Argentina's National team won the football gold earlier that day.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T Park

Uh wrong.

It makes me a paying customer that demands to see the product I pay for be at 100%.

---

That's all we need to know.

Btw, anyone care to translate this latest article from Manu?

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/nota.asp?nota_id=1026607

Quote:

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Originally Posted by roycrikside

Suppose after the '03-04 season Manu took the Nuggets offer instead of the Spurs. From a business standpoint, it would've been hard to blame him, they offered more money.

---

Good points in your post, however the Nuggets never officially offered Manu a contract. They decided to go after K-Mart instead. The Spurs' offer was the biggest offer on the table for Ginobili. But yeah, he could have complained about money since then and never has.

Manu´s Award Ranking:

1st- 2004 Olympics Gold Medal
2nd- 2005 NBA Champinship
3rd- 2007 NBA Championship
4th- 2003 NBA CHampionship
5th- 2001 Euroleague Chapionship

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by roycrikside

It's typical American arrogance and ignorance to assume they have all the good doctors just the way they once assumed they had all the good basketball players. It's a big world, no matter how many small-minded people like TPark live in it. The doctors and trainers for the Argentina NT may very well be more compe tent than the Spurs docs.

If I read and understood it correctly, it was the SPURS DOCTORS WHO COMPLETELY MISDIAGNOSED Manu's original ankle injury and it cost him three weeks late in the regular season and the playoffs and their treatment was completely ineffective. If they diagnosed and treated it right the first time, Manu could very well have been healthy for the Lakers series.

Manu has every reason to mistrust the Spurs medical staff after that and if they're going to use childish negotiating ploys like "We might extend your contract, but if you decide to play in the Olympics, we'll see what happens..." well then I wouldn't blame him at all for maybe having his agent look for other suitors.

Ginobili has taken less money to stay with the Spurs once already and he has repeatedly adjusted his role to fit the team's wishes, being shuttled back and forth from the starting lineup without complaint. He has sacrificed and given all he's got for this team and it's a shame that some of the higher ups and the fans take it for granted.

TPark's (and some others) attitudes about Manu and the Olympics are selfish and shameful. There is no greater honor for an athlete than to represent their country. Hundreds of thousands of athletes can only dream of being asked and for the life of me I can't believe a tiny fraction of them actually refuse. No matter how much money you make at your job, at the end you owe everything you have to your homeland and the sacrifice of all the people who came before you. Refusing an Olympic invitation to me is akin to being a draft dodger (refusing a call for national duty) and I'm pretty sure TPark feels very differently about people who do that.

What truly astonishes me is how hypocritical TPark and some of you others are being. Suppose after the '03-04 season Manu took the Nuggets offer instead of the Spurs. From a business standpoint, it would've been hard to blame him, they offered more money. TPark and everyone else would've called him a traitor and disloyal and greedy and a mercenary and a hundred other bad things. But Manu made the right decision and showed he cares about something besides money.

So now, when he's doing something else that doesn't involve money, people bitch. You people want it both ways. You want guys to only be dedicated to the Spurs and no one else when the Spurs don't even pay the big three what they're worth. Manu (and Tony) should be max deal players and both combined make less than Stephon Marbury, so save it with your economic bullshit, TPark. Neither one of them have held out and demanded to have their contracts ripped up and negotiated and I don't see the Spurs FO doing so either.

I very strongly doubt Manu Ginobili wanted to become a basketball player to make lots of money and I don't think it's the money that motivates him now. He wants to win as much as he can, as often as he can, whether it's the NBA, the Olympics, or pickup games. It's how he's wired and it makes him who he is. To tell him not to play is to tell him to become a different person in the offseason, to disown his past, disown his nature, disown his culture and disown his heritage. You basically want him to become some kind of whore. Maybe next year Ginobili should give the Spurs precisely 9M worth of NBA production since it's all about the money in TPark's world. I'm sure their fans wouldn't mind that at all...

---

I agree.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by T Park

The swelling and pain are gone in his ankle are gone like the pain and swelling was gone in Tony parker's foot.

Come home, STAY HOME GINOBILI DAMNT!!!

---

So, you want for Manu to stay in Argentina and never come back in SA?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by roycrikside

It's typical ....
...
in TPark's world. I'm sure their fans wouldn't mind that at all...

---

+1

Major props for the post.

good post roycrikside. of course, tpark will completely ignore it, just as he ignores any post that challenges his BS.

"i'm a paying customer..."

"i want my product at 100%"

that's all i needed to know tpark, you are a coward. no heart, no spine, no faith, no balls. go write your congressman and consumer reports so they can explain to you that sports teams do not own their players.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timvp

If an Argentine doctor advised Manu to skip the Olympics, his whole family would come up missing.

---

this is not futbol.

basketball is equivalent to field hockey in argentina

BTW, nobody in argentina is pressuring Manu to play. It's all up to him. He is the one pressuring himself

Quote:

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Originally Posted by diego

good post roycrikside. of course, tpark will completely ignore it, just as he ignores any post that challenges his BS.

"i'm a paying customer..."

"i want my product at 100%"

that's all i needed to know tpark, you are a coward. no heart, no spine, no faith, no balls. go write your congressman and consumer reports so they can explain to you that sports teams do not own their players.

---

oleeee oleeee oleee oleeeeeee Dieeeegooooo Dieeegooooo!!!!:clap:clap:worthy::worthy::worthy:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ElNono

He was supposed to be back July 7 to do further studies on his ankle, but the Argentina team doctor said he recovered quickly, and that he finished the treatment last Friday. He said the swelling and pain are gone. Manu is supposed to meet with Spurs team doctors to talk about his recovery. He will be in SA for just a day or two only, because he will be back in Argentina by Friday, when he is to attend a ceremony where the President of Argentina is going to present him with the Argentina flag he is to carry at the Olympic games.

---

Awesome! Thanks for the update. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diego

good post roycrikside. of course, tpark will completely ignore it, just as he ignores any post that challenges his BS.

"i'm a paying customer..."

"i want my product at 100%"

that's all i needed to know tpark, you are a coward. no heart, no spine, no faith, no balls. go write your congressman and consumer reports so they can explain to you that sports teams do not own their players.

---

Explain to me EXACTLY how that makes me a coward, for wanting the players that I pay to watch at 100%.

I can't wait for this horseshit.

I'm a big fan of Manu, but even a BIGGER Spurs fan. I don't think it is unreasonable for your boss to want to make sure you are 100% before undertaking something that might make you less than 100% when the NBA season nears. If the Spurs feel like Manu is endangering his chances of being healthy for the Spurs next season, then he needs to make a decision. If he feels like the Olympics are more important than the Spurs, let someone else pay him. If it came right down to it and there were only two choices, I would rather the Spurs win the championship than the US Olympic team. Let's not forget that this is sports. Manu is not famous throughout the basketball world because of his gold medal...he is famous because he has 3 rings along with the gold medal.

:flag:

Quote:

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Manu is not famous throughout the basketball world because of his gold medal...he is famous because he has 3 rings along with the gold medal.

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As a Spurs fan and paying customer, I would say to this, i could care less about his fame. Him being 100% for the team I root for is all I care about, and him going and playing in these exhibition matches, is BS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T Park

As a Spurs fan and paying customer, I would say to this, i could care less about his fame. Him being 100% for the team I root for is all I care about, and him going and playing in these exhibition matches, is BS.

---

Neither you or the Spurs paid for the right to tell Manu to not play in the olimpics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leo_d

Neither you or the Spurs paid for the right to tell Manu to not play in the olimpics.

---

The Spurs pay his salary. Playing on the Olympic team is something HE wants to do. If he's healthy and it don't effect his status next NBA season, then fine...go have fun. However, if the Spurs don't care for his decision, then they can let someone else pay his salary...if you know what I mean.

It`s like someone you work for tells you that you can`t go and play football in your time off because it might hurt you and you wouldn`t be 100% healthy at work.

When the Spurs offered that contract to Manu they know there would be a lot of chances that he plays in the olimpics for his NT. The Manu package comes with some international tournaments. Deal with it or pay more to have the right to tell him not to play.

If it were written in a contract somewhere that he couldn't play in the Olympics, then I'd understand how someone could say, you can't play in the Olympics. However, its not so Manu has every right to play. He wants to defend his Nation's Gold Medal and I applaud him for that. I understand that his Gold Medal is more important that the NBA Championship because the Olympics puts you up against the best in the world. I don't think its wrong for Manu to want to play in the Olympics at all.

However, if he is jeopardizing his season with the Spurs, then that's where there is a problem. I don't want Manu to play this summer because that is the selfish part of me that wants him to be well rested and completely healthy for next season, but I understand if he does. Its his country.

If we somehow land Maggette, i want to see manu play in the olympics

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leo_d

It`s like someone you work for tells you that you can`t go and play football in your time off because it might hurt you and you wouldn`t be 100% healthy at work.

When the Spurs offered that contract to Manu they know there would be a lot of chances that he plays in the olimpics for his NT. The Manu package comes with some international tournaments. Deal with it or pay more to have the right to tell him not to play.

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If I was jeopardizing my job due to my part time activities, they do have the right to send me packing...follow? Let me ask YOU this: If Manu is not 100% and he further aggravates the injury playing in the olympics and that carries on to the regular season, does that bother you at all as a Spurs fan?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MoSpur

However, if he is jeopardizing his season with the Spurs, then that's where there is a problem. I don't want Manu to play this summer because that is the selfish part of me that wants him to be well rested and completely healthy for next season, but I understand if he does. Its his country.

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That is the problem, he is not healthy right now and he was not healthy in the playoffs and that hurt us a lot. Him playing this summer isn't going to help his health/fatigue IMO. He gets paid a shit load of money to play for the Spurs, and if they ask him not to play,he should honor that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SpursChampsIII

If I was jeopardizing my job due to my part time activities, they do have the right to send me packing...follow? Let me ask YOU this: If Manu is not 100% and he further aggravates the injury playing in the olympics and that carries on to the regular season, does that bother you at all as a Spurs fan?

---

Look, I understand that the american spurs fans don`t want him to play the olimpics, and Manu should analize if he wants to jeopardize next season. But I think he should do that from a personal decision perspective, not from "hey I pay your salary and you gotta do what I tell you" because they didn`t pay for that. The price in his contract comes with the risk of Manu getting injured in international tournaments, if the Spurs didn`t want that risk they should`ve paid for it.

There are contracts where they tell the players that they can`t do risky sports like bungie jumping, this is the same, and if it`s not contemplated in his contract he can do what ever he likes with out breaking any loyalty to his employer.

What the Spurs could do is condition under the table a future contract to him not playing this olimpics, but I think that`s a cheap shot and it`s not very Spurs-like.

If you ask me maybe Manu playing international tournaments in the off season it`s what makes him start a little slow in the begining of the season and don`t burn out at the end of the first two months.

I just think if he is hurt he should think twice about in the olympics. I know they are important, but Spurs suffered with him this playoffs. they deserve the best Manu that Manu can be. If he was healthy I wouldn't care if the played, but he might have to make a decision.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T Park

Uh wrong.

It makes me a paying customer that demands to see the product I pay for be at 100%.

---

Wrong.

Being under contract doesn't make Manu Ginobili a slave to the Spurs. If they were so worried about his international summers, they should have put it into his contract.

I'm a paying customer too, buddy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spursfan09

I just think if he is hurt he should think twice about in the olympics. I know they are important, but Spurs suffered with him this playoffs. they deserve the best Manu that Manu can be. If he was healthy I wouldn't care if the played, but he might have to make a decision.

---

I agree, because Argentina also deserves a healthy Manu.

Altough, I would like him to carry the flag even if he is not playing. He deserves it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T Park

Explain to me EXACTLY how that makes me a coward, for wanting the players that I pay to watch at 100%.

I can't wait for this horseshit.

---

You are a coward because you have no way of showing that manu playing the olympics means he will not be 100%, yet you repeat this constantly, and when people call you out on it, you dont reply.

you insist the manu is not loyal to the spurs, that he isnt committed to the spurs, when he just played 17 games on a bad ankle. if manu were the spineless coward you are, he wouldn't have played those games, and then you'd have an argument. You have no problem with manu sacrificing himself for the spurs, because you think he gets paid for that, when he could have easily sat himself out.

what do the spurs owe the argentine national team for developing ginobili? ya think that might have something to do with the CBA GUARANTEE FOR A PLAYER'S RIGHT TO PLAY FOR THEIR NT? if you have such a big problem with this, then go take it up with the players union instead of crucifying one of the stars on your team, and also the one that just risked his future for the chance at another 'ship.

if you had heart, you wouldn't have quit on this team.
if you had a spine, you wouldn't be complaining about an injury problem THAT DOESNT EXIST. (and it doesnt, because next season hasnt started)
if you had faith, you would trust pop and the big 4 to come through as they have 3 out of the last 6 years.
and if you had balls, you'd welcome the challenge of another season, knowing full well that injuries, bad refereeing, and plain dumb luck play a huge part in the result, and that bitching about them on a forum will do nothing to eliminate those risks.

now that i've answered you, how about you answer me:

-do you have any way of proving that manu's participation in the olympics will automatically result in an injured/unproductive season for him?

-do you have any way of showing that not going to the olympics will guarantee an injury-free season (for manu or any other player?)

-do you have any way of showing that manu is not fulfilling his contract by playing basketball in the summer?

-do you have any way of showing how the spurs would lose money if manu got injured in the olympics?

and finally,

-if the spurs primary concern is to keep their investments (err, players) at 100%, why did pop play manu in the playoffs? why didnt their doctors devise a proper treatment for him anywhere from april to now? why is it that other spurs that didnt play organized basketball in the summer still had injury problems, one of which also took an exceptionally long recovery time (duncan, barry)?

if you cant answer any of those questions, nor accept my bet , than i can only assume you are a coward, and a selfish one at that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leo_d

I agree, because Argentina also deserves a healthy Manu.

Altough, I would like him to carry the flag even if he is not playing. He deserves it.

---

ofcourse, I bet to carry the flag will be a huge honor for him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xtremesteven33

If we somehow land Maggette, i want to see manu play in the olympics

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Well, even if we get Corey, I want a healthy Manu

But....

Playing for your country >>>>>>>> playing for your club

I am so glad Gino was chosen to carry the flag for Argentina. That will be a incredible experience and wonderful honor for him. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leo_d

Neither you or the Spurs paid for the right to tell Manu to not play in the olimpics.

---

The Spurs aren't paying Ginobili 8.5 million!?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by leo_d

It`s like someone you work for tells you that you can`t go and play football in your time off because it might hurt you and you wouldn`t be 100% healthy at work.

When the Spurs offered that contract to Manu they know there would be a lot of chances that he plays in the olimpics for his NT. The Manu package comes with some international tournaments. Deal with it or pay more to have the right to tell him not to play.

---

Bullshit.

Ginobili right now wants a contract extension, and the Spurs oughtta tell him, you want the extension, you stay in SA.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ATX Spur

Wrong.

Being under contract doesn't make Manu Ginobili a slave to the Spurs. If they were so worried about his international summers, they should have put it into his contract.

I'm a paying customer too, buddy.

---

A slave? :lmao

If getting 8.5 mill a year makes you a slave. Slap the fucking chains on me.

I have never understood people going crazy about international ball in the summer. If the players want to play, they certainly deserve the right to do so.

Do you all think if Manu didn't play for the Argentinean team this summer that he'd just be relaxing in a bubble somewhere? No ... he'd be playing basketball. Basketball players (good ones anyway) play basketball year round. Pickup games at local gyms, summer leagues at UCLA (where about 30+ NBA players play every summer), etc. Like Pop always says, I'd rather Manu (if he's healthy) be playing in an organized system like the national team rather than just playing in pick-up games somewhere where he's probably even more prone to getting injured.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by diego

You are a coward because you have no way of showing that manu playing the olympics means he will not be 100%, yet you repeat this constantly, and when people call you out on it, you dont reply.

you insist the manu is not loyal to the spurs, that he isnt committed to the spurs, when he just played 17 games on a bad ankle. if manu were the spineless coward you are, he wouldn't have played those games, and then you'd have an argument. You have no problem with manu sacrificing himself for the spurs, because you think he gets paid for that, when he could have easily sat himself out.

what do the spurs owe the argentine national team for developing ginobili? ya think that might have something to do with the CBA GUARANTEE FOR A PLAYER'S RIGHT TO PLAY FOR THEIR NT? if you have such a big problem with this, then go take it up with the players union instead of crucifying one of the stars on your team, and also the one that just risked his future for the chance at another 'ship.

if you had heart, you wouldn't have quit on this team.
if you had a spine, you wouldn't be complaining about an injury problem THAT DOESNT EXIST. (and it doesnt, because next season hasnt started)
if you had faith, you would trust pop and the big 4 to come through as they have 3 out of the last 6 years.
and if you had balls, you'd welcome the challenge of another season, knowing full well that injuries, bad refereeing, and plain dumb luck play a huge part in the result, and that bitching about them on a forum will do nothing to eliminate those risks.

now that i've answered you, how about you answer me:

-do you have any way of proving that manu's participation in the olympics will automatically result in an injured/unproductive season for him?

-do you have any way of showing that not going to the olympics will guarantee an injury-free season (for manu or any other player?)

-do you have any way of showing that manu is not fulfilling his contract by playing basketball in the summer?

-do you have any way of showing how the spurs would lose money if manu got injured in the olympics?

and finally,

-if the spurs primary concern is to keep their investments (err, players) at 100%, why did pop play manu in the playoffs? why didnt their doctors devise a proper treatment for him anywhere from april to now? why is it that other spurs that didnt play organized basketball in the summer still had injury problems, one of which also took an exceptionally long recovery time (duncan, barry)?

if you cant answer any of those questions, nor accept my bet , than i can only assume you are a coward, and a selfish one at that.

---

Alright, let me respond to this load of dreck bullshit.

Quote:

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what do the spurs owe the argentine national team for developing ginobili?

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Nothing at all.

Could care less. He plays for the Spurs NOW, wtf does the national team before he was drafted have anything to do with it? That argument is

Quote:

---

-do you have any way of proving that manu's participation in the olympics will automatically result in an injured/unproductive season for him?

---

Lets see, he takes one month off, plays for 3 months STRAIGHT, and thats not gonna make him tired for the season? Give me a fucking break.

Quote:

---

do you have any way of showing that not going to the olympics will guarantee an injury-free season (for manu or any other player?)

---

Once again, playing for many months STRAIGHT, makes him TIRED. If you can't see that, then step away from the computer.

Quote:

---

-do you have any way of showing how the spurs would lose money if manu got injured in the olympics?

---

Ginobili gets hurt, Spurs don't play as well, Spurs have worse record, Spurs attendance isn't good due to this.

Following this yet?

Quote:

---

-if the spurs primary concern is to keep their investments (err, players) at 100%, why did pop play manu in the playoffs? why didnt their doctors devise a proper treatment for him anywhere from april to now? why is it that other spurs that didnt play organized basketball in the summer still had injury problems, one of which also took an exceptionally long recovery time (duncan, barry)?

---

Barry is 36, thats why HE got hurt.

Duncan the last time he was at the summer olympics, played mediocre the next season in 2004 2005 and struggled with injuries, ALL SEASON.

Ginobili is OLDER now, he was able to bounce back from things like that back in his 20s. Hes in his 30s now and hes got to stop treating his body like its 21.

PERIOD.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T Park

The Spurs aren't paying Ginobili 8.5 million!?

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yes, and that pay does not include the right to forbid Manu to play in the olimpics.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T Park

A slave? :lmao

If getting 8.5 mill a year makes you a slave. Slap the fucking chains on me.

---

Idiot . . . root for trading Ginobili and get it over with. Because if he is healthy, he will play.

I can assure most of the athletes in this planet would prefer representing ones country than their local club. That is the way it is, regardles of what you might want or demand as a paying customer.

If this explanation does not satisfy you, then talk to Holt, Buford, Pop or whoever and tell them not to draft anymore foreigners.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T Park

Bullshit.

Ginobili right now wants a contract extension, and the Spurs oughtta tell him, you want the extension, you stay in SA.

---

Maybe, but is kind of wrong ask for a player to accept less salary for the good of the team, and then tell him to not play for his NT because money is all that matters.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by leo_d

Maybe, but is kind of wrong ask for a player to accept less salary for the good of the team, and then tell him to not play for his NT because money is all that matters.

---

Good point.

That goes to show how fucking two-faced some Spurs fans are.

Some points that seem to escape some people here:
- Manu has a clause in his contract where he can play international ball ONLY if he has secured insurance to cover for his salary in the event of an injury. This is actually a pretty standard arrangement with a lot of international players.
- Manu has actually signed for less in order to stay with the Spurs a few years ago. If he wouldn't care about the team, he would be in Denver now.
- I'm sure there's more than one NBA team that would be more than happy to pay him what we pay him, and let him play in the Olympics.
- As Kori correctly pointed out, most good NBA players play basketball all summer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by amy020

I agree.

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i also agree...i dont know what tpark said cos he was one of my first ignores...where he will remain forever and ever....amen

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by leo_d

Maybe, but is kind of wrong ask for a player to accept less salary for the good of the team, and then tell him to not play for his NT because money is all that matters.

---

The team might tell him not to play for his NT because they know he's so competetive that he'll keep disregard his own well-being, they know they can't win if he's injured, and they can't replace him for any price. It's certainly not anything about "money is all that matters". It also has little to do with the fact that he's the most underpaid player in the NBA. If the Spurs were paying him the max it wouldn't change their concerns for his health as it applies to their team. That Argentina has clearly been the best team in the world for a while might give Manu less to prove, which would be another argument the Spurs might make.

Clearly, he's making sure that the team is involved with the decision on whether or not he's healthy enough to play. As long as they have some say in it, and he's willing to accept their input about his long term health, that should be good enough for Spurs fans.

A freak accident could happen at any time. Didn't someone form the Spurs do something to his shins walking into a waterbed?

manu was a complete idiot

Quote:

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Originally Posted by smeagol

Good point.

That goes to show how fucking two-faced some Spurs fans are.

---

spurs fans are spurs fans not fans of a countries player
if you do not like it there is the fucking door

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T Park

Could care less. He plays for the Spurs NOW, wtf does the national team before he was drafted have anything to do with it? That argument is

Lets see, he takes one month off, plays for 3 months STRAIGHT, and thats not gonna make him tired for the season? Give me a fucking break.

Once again, playing for many months STRAIGHT, makes him TIRED. If you can't see that, then step away from the computer.

---

manu played for the Arg NT way before he played for the spurs. if the spurs had a problem with how much basketball manu plays, they shouldnt have given him a contract. i could give a rat's ass whether you think manu is tired or not. Pop obviously didnt think so or he wouldnt have played him for his highest career mpg in the regular season and playoffs- OH WAIT, make that 2nd highest- manu actually played more mpg both in the RS and PO of 04-05, THE SEASON AFTER HE WENT TO THE OLYMPICS AND WON THE MOTHERFUCKING GOLD.

i asked you for proof, not your speculation as to whether he is tired or not. i just gave you some facts that broke up your little BS theory.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T Park

Ginobili gets hurt, Spurs don't play as well, Spurs have worse record, Spurs attendance isn't good due to this.

Following this yet?

---

i don't know where to look up attendance figures, but i imagine they have been pretty even these past years, regardless of whether the spurs finish 1st or 5th in the regular season. it'd be nice if you could do something more than speculate. and anyways, the spurs have other revenues besides attendance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T Park

Barry is 36, thats why HE got hurt.

Duncan the last time he was at the summer olympics, played mediocre the next season in 2004 2005 and struggled with injuries, ALL SEASON.

Ginobili is OLDER now, he was able to bounce back from things like that back in his 20s. Hes in his 30s now and hes got to stop treating his body like its 21.

---

Duncan was injured last season too, despite not playing in the olympics, WC, or qualifiers. and in 04 05, he gimped his ankle from landing on rasheed wallace's foot, in the REGULAR SEASON. are you saying he would have just bounced of rasheed unharmed if not for the olympics?

Barry is 36, does that explain why it took him 4 months to recover from a calf injury? maybe the spurs medical staff arent the infallible wizards you puport them to be.

again, all you do is speculate with your gloom and doom BS. show me something real, any kind of fact. You have called manu unloyal, uncommitted, and basically think he is too old to play (which is hilarious, seeing as you are the boards biggest finley fan), and you have no proof to back your ridiculous assertions up.

where was your concern for manu's aging body during the playoffs? is there a single post of yours questioning pop or manu's judgement for playing through pain in the playoffs?

to OV:

I don`t know if he is the most underpaid player in the NBA. Tim also accept less salary for the good of the team.

What I am saying is the Spurs have specials kind of players in ther team. Players that are willing to sacrifice money for something little bigger, call it pride or desire for glory if you want, but don`t expect them to turn off this desire.

Also, the Spurs should worry if winning something once is all what Manu needs to feel he has acomplished enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

manu was a complete idiot

---

Interestingly enough this comes from one of the stupidest posters on this board.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

spurs fans are spurs fans not fans of a countries player
if you do not like it there is the fucking door

---

I never made it a secret I'm a Manu fan.

And I know where the door is, not sure why I should leave, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by leo_d

to OV:

I don`t know if he is the most underpaid player in the NBA. Tim also accept less salary for the good of the team.

What I am saying is the Spurs have specials kind of players in ther team. Players that are willing to sacrifice money for something little bigger, call it pride or desire for glory if you want, but don`t expect them to turn off this desire.

Also, the Spurs should worry if winning something once is all what Manu needs to feel he has acomplished enough.

---

I think Manu's grossly underpaid, as I think he's grossly undervalued. The Spurs don't undervalue him and a large number of Spurs fans who get really emotional at the idea of Manu injuring himself playing international ball don't undervalue him.

Nobody is expecting Manu to turn off his desire, which is precisely why the Spurs want to have a lot of say in whether or not he plays, because he's not going to go to Beijing and just take it easy.

You're right that a counterpoint to "Argentina is the best team in the world, you have nothing to prove" could be, "The Spurs are the best team in the NBA, you have nothing to prove", but then it comes down, once again, to money. Like it or not, that's going to be a factor. If Manu were the type of player to risk himself without regard for those who were paying him, chances are he and the Spurs would have parted ways some time ago.

And I'm kind of playing devil's advocate in this discussion. I'm okay with Manu playing as long as he's not going to damage anything. Grant Hill's powdered ankle scares the bejeezus out of me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ducks

spurs fans are spurs fans not fans of a countries player
if you do not like it there is the fucking door

---

Yours truly,
Tony Parker fanboy.

Philanthropy

"In the field of philanthropy, Parker donates a block of 20 tickets for each home game to underprivileged youth. Parker is also the first ambassador for Make-A-Wish France. The Foundation is a non-profit organization that grants wishes to children with life-threatening medical conditions. On his personal website, Parker states: "I already knew Make-A-Wish as it is very famous around the world and I have previously taken part in the granting of wishes by meeting children and their families. I decided to commit to working with Make-A-Wish France when I understood the true dedication there and I realised that I could help to grant as many wishes as possible."

Now I get it. Stupidity is a life-threatening condition. And you are, how much? Like 5 years old?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by leo_d

Maybe, but is kind of wrong ask for a player to accept less salary for the good of the team, and then tell him to not play for his NT because money is all that matters.

---

They aren't asking him to take less money.

He wants an extension and a raise.

Fine, stay home in SA or BA or wherever.

U want the extension, you don't mess around in the offseason.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ElNono

Some points that seem to escape some people here:
- Manu has a clause in his contract where he can play international ball ONLY if he has secured insurance to cover for his salary in the event of an injury. This is actually a pretty standard arrangement with a lot of international players.
- Manu has actually signed for less in order to stay with the Spurs a few years ago. If he wouldn't care about the team, he would be in Denver now.
- I'm sure there's more than one NBA team that would be more than happy to pay him what we pay him, and let him play in the Olympics.
- As Kori correctly pointed out, most good NBA players play basketball all summer.

---

These are good points.


I hope Manu is healthy enough to play. Even so, we're relying on Argentina to use him wisely. I guess we'll be rooting for an early Argentina exit...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smeagol

Good point.

That goes to show how fucking two-faced some Spurs fans are.

---

Ok I am not Argentian at all. I understand that Manu wants to play for his country, but I am a Spur fan and they pay him to play for us. I think if he is hurt he should rest. Spurs need him. I care about them more because I am a fan of the team. It's not two face. I don't have any connection with Argetina, so ofcourse alot of Spur fans want to make sure Manu is okay if not than he should sit this one out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by T Park

They aren't asking him to take less money.

He wants an extension and a raise.

Fine, stay home in SA or BA or wherever.

U want the extension, you don't mess around in the offseason.

---

So to participate in the most important basketball tournament in the world and represent your country is "messing around"? For all we know, Tim Duncan could be swimming in the Virgin Islands in the offseason and get his leg biten off by a shark, Tony Parker could get a crotch inflammation because he banged his hot wife so much and Udoka could be attacked by lions back home. By playing in the Olympics, Manu reduces his chances of getting injured.

Oh, and please provide a direct quote on the raise that Manu has asked.

This thread should be re-titled "TPark vs. reason"

any updates of manu's recovery ? anything from SA doctors yet?

give manu a break ! geez!
let him do the things he wants to and supports him, believing him, all I wish is to see a happy healthy manu enjoy the thing he loves to do, that's all!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by porscha

any updates of manu's recovery ? anything from SA doctors yet?

---

we're'all checking waiting to get news... :) he'll be fine :)

I can't even remember when was the last time manu plays like the manu in the picture. http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/e...manu050612.jpg


don't know if it was just me but I seem to find less and less smile on his face and he looks tense and more tense over the years.
I know that the bastket ball is the thing he loves to do and I really wish he will do it happily. very happily

Quote:

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Originally Posted by urunobili

we're'all checking waiting to get news... :) he'll be fine :)

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isn't manu is going back to Arg on thursday?
8pm already! isn't kinda late if there is any good news?
geez...I hope pop and manu is not having a fight right now...:lol:wow

worry...