Where would you guys rank Duncan on an All Time list?

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Originally Posted by SScarrJ

Kinda in a debate with some people on his place in history, but its hard to speak about guys like Wilt, Russel, Dr. J, and West since I never really got to see them play. Even then all I've ever seen of f Bird vs Magic is on ESPN Classic and NBA TV, but I at least can that I have actually seen them.

Just curious to see where the older people would rank Duncan

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Consider this years playoffs, which many have said he's already slipping. Against Phoenix he had 40 points and the clutch trey in overtime. Against NO one game he had 22/22...slipping indeed! The final game against LA he had a triple-double.

These are the types of numbers (along with the championships) which put Timmmy 3rd behind Russel and Chamberlain. He's more vauable than Jabar, Johnson or Bird and still has five good years left.

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Originally Posted by ambchang

Larry Bird won 3 straight MVPs, revolutionized the concept of a small forward by being able to pass, dribble, shoot from outside, score from inside and rebound, and won 3 titles.

Magic won 3 MVPs, won 5 titles and led the Lakers to 9 trips to the finals, winning finals MVP 3 times. Broke Big O’s long standing assist record (size eclipsed by John Stockton and Mark Jackson), and along with Bird hauled the NBA out of financial difficulty and made it a major sport in North America.

You can make an argument with ranking Wilt, Kareem, Big O, Dr. J Magic and Bird in any order, but it would be difficult to make a hard case that one is definitely better than the others.

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Rick Barry did a lot of the stuff that you credit Bird with bringing to the game (in "revolutionizing" the small forward position) a decade earlier. So did Julius Erving. If we are going to talk impact on the game, Erving had a much greater impact than Bird as far as influencing how future generations would play.


I don't really have a problem with your last statement, and I mostly agree. It just puzzles me when people act like it's obvious that Bird and Magic were better than Wilt or Kareem or Dr. J or Robertson, because there are really no facts to back it up.

Kareem was on 6 championship teams, got to the finals 10 times, and won 6 MVPs. Kareem could do everything on the court at the highest of levels.

Wilt won 2 championships on two of the most dominant teams of all time, won 4 MVPs, and I think everyone knows about all his records. Wilt could do everything at elite levels except make free throws.

Dr. J won 3 championships, got to the finals 6 times and won 4 MVPs (these numbers include his ABA years).

Oscar Robertson could do everything on the basketball court at the higest level, but spent most of his career on mediocre teams.

No one seems to ever consider the defensive shortcomings of both Bird and Johnson.

best power forward ever and top 5 player

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Originally Posted by polandprzem

Kareem had not much success after winning the first title.
He did not advanced to the playoffs 75 Mil, 76 LA

He was not emotional leader - LA needed a guy like magic who always was in the playoffs and even when Jabbar left the team they were one step of winning the title in 1991 and they were title contenders.

So there is a point I guess.

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Do you know who Kareem was playing with in Milwaukee and LA during those years? He had a VERY poor supporting cast. That's why his teams didn't regularly go deep in the playoffs during the 70s. Every great player needs a good supporting cast to advance. The Bulls regularly were stomped out in the first round (and had sub-.500 records) before they got Michael Jordan some help.

Please know your facts before posting.

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Originally Posted by Gant

I put empahasis on winning and domination.

Top 10 (no order within tiers):

First tier:

Russell and Jordan.
They are clearly above everyone else.

Second tier:

Kareem, Wilt, Bird, and Magic.

Third tier:

Duncan, Shaq, and Oscar. Four championships each for the big guys. Two great players.

Oscar played on horrible teams until the end when he paired up with Kareem in Milwaukee. (I would place Oscar behind Shaq and Duncan based on winning.)

Fourth tier:

Havlicek. The only guy I can think of who was not the main man, but who took up that mantle after the stud retired and led his team to further titles. (Pippen didn't do it and neither has Kobe.)

If you didn't see him play you can't understand. Not only did he have stats but his main value was in purely wearing his opposite number down. He sprinted every minute of every game leaving his man worn out in the 4th quarter. He had an unusual heart (literally, not metaphorically) that allowed him to run endlessly.

He was at the top of his game for an incredibly long time.

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Your rankings don't make sense. Kareem won and dominated as much as Jordan, so by your standards he should be in the first tier. Duncan has more titles than Bird. So how is Bird a tier above him?


On top of all this, your methodology is flawed. Looking purely at winning doesn't show much. Wilt Chamberlain could do everything Bill Russell could and then some. The only areas in which Russell was superior to Chamberlain was having a better coach, front office, and supporting cast.

Without Kareem there is no Showtime Lakers.

Man some of you are downright retarded. I realize the Spurs weren't shit until 1999, but the NBA has been around a hell of a lot longer than that.