We overpaid but I'm now very glad we have Finley after Ginobili injury.
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We overpaid but I'm now very glad we have Finley after Ginobili injury.
Yeah lets hold onto that money, not sign anyone, then rip into Holt for saving for another Tractor or earth mover.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Umm.. he's talking about next year being Finley's option. It would have been nice for the Spurs to have the flexibility to NOT bring back at 36 year old Finley next summer.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
This move is so Pop. Why the mancrush on the way past his prime Finley?
very good!..
What next? Nick Van Exel for a two year deal at a little over the league minimum?
$5M for Finley is a quite big contract. I thought that he would get a LLE like contract that is to say $4M/2 years.
You also had to consider that if Spurs gave given him that much money, it's not to stick him at the deep end of the bench. I had the same reasoning for Mason.
Unless Spurs plays Mason at PG or a lot of small ball, Spurs wings are quite overcrowded. Someone will be the odd man out and it could be Udoka.
And Spurs offseason has been very disappointing so far. Right now, Spurs aren't a serious contender for the 2009 title and it damn sucks.
Must be something quirky about the contract like buy-out language even if the second year is Fin's option. Maybe they have their eye on someone for a trade who wants an expiring contract in Feb 2010? Gotta be something.......
I like Finley but I rather see David Robinson play in his 40s than see Finley play.
5 mil over 2 years and he has the option for next year? This is a joke, right?
You do more blind cheerleading for the Spurs than the Coyote, but at least he is actually getting paid, and puts people in a good mood.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
The terms of this deal are not favorable to the team at all. Why support it? Or worse, rip people for calling it out for what it is?
For ONE game and that was only offensively, even though he spent the rest of the season injured and one year older than Finley and Thomas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti.Hero
Everyone says that we need more youth because TD and Manu are getting in the *gasp* early 30s and then they get pissed that we didn't resign the second oldest person on our roster last year.
This summer, the Spurs have made some bad moves and they've had some bad luck ... but signing Finley to a two-year, $5M contract with the second year as a player option might take the cake.
Finley is D-O-N-E. I'm not even sure he's better than 2003 Smitty. At least Smitty could pass a little bit and handle the ball a little bit. Finley is a one-trick jump shooting pony who has lost the ability to jump.
Unless he finds the fountain of youth over the summer, this will be one of the dumbest signings of the Pop era.
Actually, the money I find I can live with; after all, I'm not paying it. Finley's 2.5 million shouldn't impact our space under the lux tax limit, and he goes away in 2010, in time for our (and everyone else's) big FA push... According to http://www.storytellerscontracts.inf...09salaries.htm, our expected salary for 089/09 is $65,326,513, with Finley's 2.5 million included. (that gets us Tim Duncan, Tony Parker, Emanuel Ginobili, Kurt Thomas, Bruce Bowen, Roger Mason, Fabricio Oberto, Matt Bonner, Jacque Vaughn, Ime Udoka, Ian Mahinmi, Anthony Tolliver, Michael Finley, George Hill). The lux tax line last year was 67 865 000. It's not going to go down. We are in no danger of Lux tax currently (and have over $2,500,000 to spend on our last roster spot if we so chose). Finley's contract value does make him tradeable for a much wider range of contracts. Thats the good news.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
The thing that does worry me about this is that it may be a sign that Pop's Mancrush is unabated, as Finley got a lot more than market value. IF that's the case, we might see a lot more of Finley this year, as opposed to being 5th swing. Then I'm going to be unhappy. As TiMVP has admitted, Finley's D-O-N-E!
PS. What do people think about signing Shaun Livingston into that last roster spot with a guaranteed contract? (I say guaranteed, because that is what I think would take to get him to sign here). I think he'd be interesting. He's really a good passer, and can defend. He's also a relatively big (compared to our backcourt), capable of playing the 1, 2, or 3 at 6'7"...
Fin will help us. IMO he is not done, he is just done as a 25 plus min pr game guy. He is a streaky shooter who can score very quickly. His problem is on D he has had to defend smaller quicker players which he cant do. And on offense he is losing his lift due to playing to many mins.
This is causing him to shoot a lower %. Cut his mins to 12-14 pr game with a game off now and then and I believe he will increase is fg% and his scoring pr min avg.
Playing the 3 would help us giving the ball to manu at the top of the key and having fin and mason on the wings with the second team will give us a better scoring second unit.
Just pray pops keeps his mins down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DROB4EVER
Actually the thing I liked about Finley last year is he did soak up a lot of minutes last year during the regular season giving Ginobili more time on the bench.
Don't blame God if this one goes unanswered....Quote:
Originally Posted by DROB4EVER
Considering that Manu had a career high in both total minutes and mpg last season, Finley must not have done a very good job at soaking up minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dramon
Actually it had nothing to do with Finley. Finley still averaged 26mpg throughout the season. The reason Manu averaged so many minutes (still only 31mpg. 27:30 to 31:06 isn't that big a jump in minutes) was becuase Brent Barry was injured/traded throughout most of the season and also becuase of Tony Parker. When Parker went down in late January, Manu's averages jumped up to around 40mpg until he got back. Bag all you guys want on Finley but at least he's been able to play in all 82 games for the past two seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by objective
Are you familiar with David Berri's statistical analysis of wins produced in Basketball? His statistics provide a certain amount of insight. I have 4 numbers I'd like to draw your attention to, from this table :Quote:
Originally Posted by Dramon
http://www.wagesofwins.com/Spurs0708.html
Brent Barry Wins Produced 07/08 season : 2.5
Mike Finley Wins Produced 07/08 season : 2.4
Brent Barry Minutes Played 07/08 Season : 554
Mike Finley Minutes Played 07/08 Season : 2204
Finley played 4 TIMES as many minutes, and provided less of a contribution to overall team success... An average player (WP/48 = 0.1), playing Finley's minutes would have improved our team success by approximately (.2*2204/48 - 2.4 = 2.2) 2.2 wins, which a) would have given us homecourt advantage, and b) would have let us rest Manu much more, as there would be a net of much more garbage time at the end of some wins...
Too bad winning and basketball is more than just tables and calculations.Quote:
Originally Posted by pad300
It does nothing to debunk what I said about Manu playing more minutes.
Also, Finley played more minutes was becuase he was healthy the ENTIRE season, while Barry went down with an injury like a third of the way into the season. I don't care how many wins over Finley that Barry generated, he's sure as hell didn't generate wins sitting on the bench injured.
Instead of using some stupid calculation based off formulas try looking at the games themselves. Even if you don't watch the games the boxscore tells a much better story. You'd be surprised at how much the big 3's health matters. Like for instance this game that we lost against the Celtics when Tony Parker was out.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore...gid=2008021002
Finley shot 61.5% and finished with 19 points and we still lost.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/boxscore...gid=2008040426
This game Finley shot 25% but so did Bowen while Jacque Vaughn and Udoka combined for 1-7, oh and Ginobili shot 2-10. So I don't think you can really attribute the loss to him when NOONE else stepped up either. There are several games he shot awesome percentages and we lost and several that he shot poorly but he wasn't the only one shooting poorly that game. The only thing I would be concerned about with Finley is getting a step slow on defense, forget about offense. Though, Barry is probably a step slower than Finley.
Oberto generated like 2.8 wins according to your link which is nice, but the dude averages less than 5 points a game and in most of our losses usually averages < 3 points.
If anything Vaughn and Udoka need to step it up in scoring. You guys keep looking at points but in our system its not points scored that you should be looking at for anyone not named Duncan, Parker, or Ginobili. You should be looking at specialty roles ie: perimeter shooter, elbow jumpshooter, etc and DEFENSE. If you're gonna grill any of our players for anything grill them for being slow on defense.
We lost HCA last year not because Finley or whoever was old, we lost it becuase each one of our big 3 went down at totally seperate times and they didn't have a chance to really play with each other except at the very beginning and end of the season so everytime someone would get healthy again they had to regain that chemistry. Also, I don't think Barry's not resigning had anything to do with the FO, I just think he really wanted to sign with Houston.
I hate you timvp.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
did not finley have a fuck like this last year and played decent in the second half of the season
not thrilled he is a spur though
Finley was done last season - everyone could see that but T Park... I called it, you called it, most of the fucking world called it. Sure, he hit a few shots against the Suns, but that was an aberration, and enough to blind Pop to the obvious.
We could have had Matt Barnes for the minimum.
:pctoss
:pctoss :pctoss :pctossQuote:
Originally Posted by SenorSpur