Spot Number 1 - Top 50 Spurs

To pass the time until the start of preseason, let's see how SpursTalk.com ranks the Top 50 Spurs. Those eligible for the list include all players, coaches and owners. I don't want to define "top" too narrowly, but I think the best way to do it would be to think of the list as a list of the 50 most influential people who have helped make the Spurs one of the most successful franchises in the history of sport.

For more information on what we are doing, check out this thread.

In this thread, we will vote for spot number one. Please place your vote. If you will, also explain in this thread why you voted how you did.

Thanks.



P.S.

Poll options listed in alphabetical order. If you want to vote for someone not on the list, post in the thread and I'll add the person.

Voting will end 2AM CST Sunday morning. Please vote only once.

TIM DUNCAN - before TD came to NBA I didn't even watch basketball. But when I saw that guy play I was just ''WOW!''. He was also my inspiration for playing basketball, and because of him I alway try to do my best when I play. Plus he won pretty much all important awards and I hope he's ready for at least one more ring.
So my #1 is TD!

I'm torn between Drossos and Duncan......Drossos was the guy who brought the Spurs to San Antonio but Duncan was the missing championship piece. I'm gunna go with Duncan even though he got a lot of helping along the way.

Tony Parker. And don't even ask.

David Robinson was the heart and soul of the Spurs, and he stuck with our team through thick and thin. I feel like he set the standard of how a Spurs player should be, on and off the court.

I can make a case for Duncan, Robinson, Gervin and Drossos in my mind. I'm going to sleep on it before I make my vote.

:reading

Duncan.

For all that came before him, and for all that may come after him, I believe that Duncan put the stamp on this franchise. He brought the Championships home, he's led with incredible grace. I think he'll be the one most people will think of first when the Spurs are mentioned.

Tim Duncan is the reason I'm as into basketball as I am now. I was blessed enough to live in Chicago during the Bulls dynasty of the 90's, but moving down to San Antonio gave me a clean slate to build on. I embraced my new home, and the Spurs, and Tim Duncan with it. He has been the constant in all 4 of our title teams. His actions speaking louder than his words mirrors my own personal philosophy. On a more personal level, that he is as much a nerd as he is, is an indescribable thing, given who I am. That I have something in common with my favorite basketball player of all time, and that that something involves Dungeons and Dragons and Rennaisance Faires, is one of the greatest feelings in the world.

DRob...regardless of what happened before or since he got here, the Spurs would not be in SA without him and neither would Tim Duncan. David Robinson turned down untold millions, greater fame, and more championships to play for the Spurs. He turned down the chance to play with Magic Johnson and replace Kareem Abdul Jabbar in LA, to play for a cash strapped lottery team that was on the verge of leaving it's town.

I do not think one other player in team history would have been willing to do that had they been in David Robinson's place. I can't think of many NBA players in history would have done that. It takes a special man to make that decision at the time Drob made it, a guy who truly pulls for the underdog.

IF DRob had been all about championships and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.

If Drob had been all about fame and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.

If Drob had been all about money and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.

Drob knew he was taking the hard path to fame, fortune and titles, when he signed with the Spurs, and he still did it.

Drob all the way...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

DRob...regardless of what happened before or since he got here, the Spurs would not be in SA without him and neither would Tim Duncan. David Robinson turned down untold millions, greater fame, and more championships to play for the Spurs. He turned down the chance to play with Magic Johnson and replace Kareem Abdul Jabbar in LA, to play for a cash strapped lottery team that was on the verge of leaving it's town.

I do not think one other player in team history would have been willing to do that had they been in David Robinson's place. I can't think of many NBA players in history would have done that. It takes a special man to make that decision at the time Drob made it, a guy who truly pulls for the underdog.

IF DRob had been all about championships and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.

If Drob had been all about fame and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.

If Drob had been all about money and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.

Drob knew he was taking the hard path to fame, fortune and titles, when he signed with the Spurs, and he still did it.

Drob all the way...

---

That's a pretty good argument . . .

My automatic first reaction would be to vote for Duncan. But Whottt makes a dang good argument for David. Hmmm...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

My automatic first reaction would be to vote for Duncan.

---

I think most people who weren't Spurs fans before Duncan got here have that same first reaction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

DRob...regardless of what happened before or since he got here, the Spurs would not be in SA without him and neither would Tim Duncan. David Robinson turned down untold millions, greater fame, and more championships to play for the Spurs. He turned down the chance to play with Magic Johnson and replace Kareem Abdul Jabbar in LA, to play for a cash strapped lottery team that was on the verge of leaving it's town.

I do not think one other player in team history would have been willing to do that had they been in David Robinson's place. I can't think of many NBA players in history would have done that. It takes a special man to make that decision at the time Drob made it, a guy who truly pulls for the underdog.

IF DRob had been all about championships and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.

If Drob had been all about fame and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.

If Drob had been all about money and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.

Drob knew he was taking the hard path to fame, fortune and titles, when he signed with the Spurs, and he still did it.

Drob all the way...

---

I agree.

He will always be under appreciated by the NBA, and his own Spur followers.

Thanks guys...yeah I don't think many people realize that David Robinson was a #1 draft pick defacto Free Agent signing out of the Navy.

He didn't have sign with the Spurs, due to his military commitment of 2 years. He was a Free Agent when he signed with the Spurs and he was free to sign with anyone. And every one tried to sign him....



We'll never know exactly what all David turned down, but he definitely turned down being the highest paid player in the NBA, huge endorsement opportunities, and IMO, he turned down the chance to be considered one of the top 4 or 5 centers in NBA history. He could have had any big market media machine behind him, the stuff that makes the stars, and with his character he would have been an absolute NBA legend.

Could have signed with anyone...instead, he told Jerry West...no.


I know why he did it...2 reasons, because the Spurs were the team that drafted him, and because he knew they needed him the most to survive.

Tim Duncan for me. Tim is the best player to ever put on a Spurs uniform. As the greatest power forward of all-time, he's the one guy on the list who would not only make an all-time All-NBA team, he would also be in the starting lineup.

During his years in San Antonio, Duncan has won countless accolades and individual honors, including MVPs and Finals MVPs. But the most important thing Duncan has brought to the team is his attitude. Yes, a lot of that attitude started with David Robinson. However, with or without title #2, Five-Oh was retiring after the 2003 season. If Duncan doesn't adopt the selfless, team-first, cut-the-hype-and-let's-play-defense attitude, then the team falls apart when Robinson leaves. Maybe Parker decides to rebel against Pop's screaming at him, and he bolts San Antonio (or is traded) as soon as possible. Maybe countless role-players over the years don't buy into the system (first quote you always hear from the new guys, "Pop treats everyone the same, including Duncan. When you see that, and you see how Duncan reacts, you know you have to toe the line."). And don't you dare think I'm over-valuing Duncan's attitude. All of the stuff I listed is possible, and much more, without Duncan's selflessness.

So, then maybe I'm over-valuing the last 5 years? After all, the franchise has a much deeper history than that. But the poll says the guys who have most "helped make the Spurs one of the most successful franchises in the history of sport." This means 4 championships (all under Duncan's reign). This means ESPN naming the Spurs the best organization in all of sports (again, under Duncan's reign). This means a team that is fully integrated into the community, which continues strong to this day, thanks to Duncan and Robinson. And above all, this means an organization that isn't going away any time soon. One that will compete for championships for years to come, and that will always be filled with good guys and community leaders, because from now on the people of San Antonio will demand no less.

Even if the role players around him are uninspiring at some point, sports writers will be forced to type, "You can never count out a team with Tim Duncan."

As long as Tim Duncan is here, the Spurs will be winners, on and off the court.

And with the organization he has helped establish, my money is on that continuing for a very long time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alamo50

I think most people who weren't Spurs fans before Duncan got here have that same first reaction.

---

It's a real disadvantage because half of all the fans (at least) came with TD and don't understand the value of DRob himself.

The arguments that come to mind are..

1) TD won titles without DRob.

However.. TD had a better team at all times when DRob did not. I highly doubt TD's win ratio would have been better or the same as DRob's with the teams David was on.

2) Stats. Robinson owns them over TD. And I ignore the last couple years of David's career, as he played with ailing back. Besides, I bet when TD's decline years hurt his average his stats wouldn't be on DRob's level either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

DRob...regardless of what happened before or since he got here, the Spurs would not be in SA without him and neither would Tim Duncan. David Robinson turned down untold millions, greater fame, and more championships to play for the Spurs. He turned down the chance to play with Magic Johnson and replace Kareem Abdul Jabbar in LA, to play for a cash strapped lottery team that was on the verge of leaving it's town.

I do not think one other player in team history would have been willing to do that had they been in David Robinson's place. I can't think of many NBA players in history would have done that. It takes a special man to make that decision at the time Drob made it, a guy who truly pulls for the underdog.

IF DRob had been all about championships and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.

If Drob had been all about fame and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.

If Drob had been all about money and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.

Drob knew he was taking the hard path to fame, fortune and titles, when he signed with the Spurs, and he still did it.

Drob all the way...

---

Wow! Like some, I was all set to automatically cast my vote, on first reaction, for Duncan, for obvious reasons - until I read Whott's case. All of which is a simple reminder to the culture, foundation and the continued existence of a sports franchise in the sleepy little city of San Antonio. All made possible by Robinson and the decisions and values that he stood for. Without question, D-Rob was the building block. The pillar. The franchise cornerstone. All those terms are overused in the sports vernacular, but they were never more true when referencing Robinson. As great, talented and superior an athlete and player as he was, he is an even better human being. Without him, none of the ensuing on-court success, championship excellence and financial profitability takes place. In fact, the Spurs franchise, as Whott reminds us, would have surely relocated elsewhere. If that happens, then we're having Spurs talk from Kansas City, Charlotte, San Diego or some other city. Just for a moment, imagine the change in the identity and the perception of San Antonio without the Spurs?

In addition to carrying the franchise throughout his first 8 seasons, with an assortment of teaammates, role players and scrubs, and in doing so, becoming THE most decorated Spur in team history to that point, David willingly sacrificed his game so that a young, up-and-coming rookie (Duncan) could flourish. He mentored Tim and then wisely stepped back and allowed the student to become the teacher. With that sacrifice, smart personnel moves, and through Duncan's greatness, came the start of the championship dynasty that we're now enjoying.

As far as I'm concerned, it's case closed for the Admiral. Thanks for keeping it real, Whott.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SenorSpur

In addition to carrying the franchise throughout his first 8 seasons, with an assortment of teaammates, role players and scrubs, and in doing so, becoming THE most decorated Spur in team history to that point, David willingly sacrificed his game so that a young, up-and-coming rookie (Duncan) could flourish. He mentored Tim and then wisely stepped back and allowed the student to become the teacher. With that sacrifice, smart personnel moves, and through Duncan's greatness, came the start of the championship dynasty that we're now enjoying.

---

That's really amazing and never gets old to me. David could have ignore it and put up his usual 25 12 and 3 but for the sake of the team and the player Duncan had potential to be, he did that.

For me personally I believe Duncan is the better individual player, however there's a lot more that goes into being the greatest Spur. It's actions and off court things as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

Thanks guys...yeah I don't think many people realize that David Robinson was a #1 draft pick defacto Free Agent signing out of the Navy.

He didn't have sign with the Spurs, due to his military commitment of 2 years. He was a Free Agent when he signed with the Spurs and he was free to sign with anyone. And every one tried to sign him....



We'll never know exactly what all David turned down, but he definitely turned down being the highest paid player in the NBA, huge endorsement opportunities, and IMO, he turned down the chance to be considered one of the top 4 or 5 centers in NBA history. He could have had any big market media machine behind him, the stuff that makes the stars, and with his character he would have been an absolute NBA legend.

Could have signed with anyone...instead, he told Jerry West...no.


I know why he did it...2 reasons, because the Spurs were the team that drafted him, and because he knew they needed him the most to survive.

---

Loyalty to a franchise and a city is certainly a charateristic of yesteryear. Something the LeBron's, the Kobe's and many other of today's NBA superstars would never know. They're too busy chasing the green, regardless of the source. Too often, the mindset with today's players seems to be "pay me first, we'll worry about winning later on." Invaribly, once paid, they want to then become the team GM.

Back to D-Rob, his off-court case for Dave notwithstanding, I wouldn't want to overlook the fact that he was a great, great player. As evidenced by his being named one of the 50 Greatest Players of All-Time. I'm so happy that he won 2 titles because it silenced a lot of his naysayers, who publically crucified David and the Spurs by labeling them as "soft" - especially after that heartbreaking 1995 WCF series versus Rockets.

If it wasn't obvious from my post anyway, Robinson is a very close second for me. A lot of the arguments I used for Duncan could very easily be used for Robinson. Both are tremendous off-the-court guys who are amazingly selfless and a great role model not only for their teammates, but for all of us. As I implied, the points that pushed me toward Duncan over Robinson were:

-Duncan's tenure corresponding more closely to the true golden years of the Spurs.
-Preemptively giving him credit for what he's going to do in the next 5-10 years.
-Duncan more thoroughly dominating his position and being perhaps the most consistent player in the history of the game.

Pop is pretty important too...Pop built this organization as the GM before he won titles as a coach.


And I think Gervin is every bit as deserving of consideration for Big Spur Numero Uno as anyone...without George Gervin, I doubt the Spurs are one of the teams chosen to jump to the NBA.

It's funny because the Spurs now have this rep of being a bunch of good guys...but with Gervin they were flat out the coolest team in the NBA. Totally different image with Gervin.


How cool is George?

He taught Michael Jordan how to win scoring titles...it does not get any cooler than that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

We'll never know exactly what all David turned down, but he definitely turned down being the highest paid player in the NBA, huge endorsement opportunities, and IMO, he turned down the chance to be considered one of the top 4 or 5 centers in NBA history.

---

True. D-Rob's lost endorsement potential will never be known. However, David had excellent representation. I do know that his agent smartly negotiated an escalator clause in David's second contract that called for him to be annually paid as one of the top 3-5 players in the game. Therefore, as the salaries of the upper-echelon, great players (Bird, Magic, Olajuwon) went up, so did David's. A brillant contractual clause, negotiated during the non-salary cap era. I just wanted it to be clear that D-Rob was annually well-compensated by the Spurs.

Interesting story. Having grew up in San Antonio during Gervin's heyday, I can recall Ice embroiled in an ugly contractual dispute with former owner Angelo Drossos . Drossos balked and haggled with Gervin's reps as to whether to pay him $1 million for a single season! It got pretty ugly and was made public in the Express-News because Angelo just couldn't get his mind around paying a ball player, even one of Gervin's national prominence, that much money. I seem to remember they finally agreed to a contract for about $950k annually. I know that sounds trivial by today's economic standards.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

Pop is pretty important too...Pop built this organization as the GM before he won titles as a coach.


And I think Gervin is every bit as deserving of consideration for Big Spur Numero Uno as anyone...without George Gervin, I doubt the Spurs are one of the teams chosen to jump to the NBA.

It's funny because the Spurs now have this rep of being a bunch of good guys...but with Gervin they were flat out the coolest team in the NBA. Totally different image with Gervin.


How cool is George?

He taught Michael Jordan how to win scoring titles...it does not get any cooler than that.

---

Word. I remember Jordan telling that story. Also Gervin was cited by Julius "Dr. J" Erving, as the one player that he would willingly PAY to go see in person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timvp

To pass the time until the start of preseason, let's see how SpursTalk.com ranks the Top 50 Spurs. Those eligible for the list include all players, coaches and owners. I don't want to define "top" too narrowly, but I think the best way to do it would be to think of the list as a list of the 50 most influential people who have helped make the Spurs one of the most successful franchises in the history of sport.

For more information on what we are doing, check out this thread.

In this thread, we will vote for spot number one. Please place your vote. If you will, also explain in this thread why you voted how you did.

Thanks.



P.S.

Poll options listed in alphabetical order. If you want to vote for someone not on the list, post in the thread and I'll add the person.

Voting will end 2AM CST Sunday morning. Please vote only once.

---

Any way I can recast my vote? :lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SenorSpur

True. D-Rob's lost endorsement potential will never be known. However, David had excellent representation. I do know that his agent smartly negotiated an escalator clause in David's second contract that called for him to be annually paid as one of the top 3-5 players in the game. Therefore, as the salaries of the upper-echelon, great players (Bird, Magic, Olajuwon) went up, so did David's. A brillant contractual clause, negotiated during the non-salary cap era. I just wanted it to be clear that D-Rob was annually well-compensated by the Spurs.

---

Yeah in Drob's contract was that he be paid an average of the top 3 salaries in the NBA, not top 5, top 3.


More than that...the Spurs agreed to pay him a million a year before he even started playing for the team.


But both of them were deals Drob could have gotten from anyone...in addition to better endorsement deals.


Drob could have broke the bank...he wasn't restricte to any payscale, and there's no doubt the Lakers had more money to offer him.



:lol He started to bank on contract a few years later when about 4 or 5 other guys had similar contracts and so they kept having to renegotiate every time one of the other guys renegotiated...

Drob tore his contract up at that point...and he didn't have to do that either.


But yeah, it was still a paycut for David...the Spurs couldn't offer him as much as the other teams had to offer him...they didn't have the money to do it. That average worked out for the Spurs so that he'd be giving himself his own raises once he started drawing fans.

Even if Duncan is likely a better player than Robinson, I'm not sure that he is the better Spur.
Duncan nearly left SA in 2000, that is to say only 3 years after coming in NBA.
He stayed because Spurs won in 99 and because DRob came back from Hawaii to talk with him.
I still will wait a little before voting to hear people arguments but I think I will vote for Robinson.

For me it was Robinson or Duncan.

Whottt made a great post about 50 that made me think more but since I'm a Spurs fan since 94 I didn't see the beggining of Robinson. I read all the great stuff he did early in his carrer but didn't follow it.

I chose TD because I saw his entire carrer and for me he's fantastic. The best PF ever and the main guy for our championships

I know we have a lot of fans who came aboard during this Duncan/Pop dynasty - and what a run it has been. I just wish more fans took the time to study and learn more about the history of this proud franchise. The all-star caliber players that came through here from both the ABA and early NBA days.

From the backcourt brilliance of James Silas, the prolific scoring prowess and feathery touch of Hall-of-Famer, George Gervin, the rebounding and gazelle-like, fast-breaking grace of Larry Kenon, the power and force in the paint, that was Artis Gilmore, the shotblocking tenacity of George Johnson, the guile and grit of the original 6th man, George Karl (yes - that George Karl), and the intense, on-the-ball, defensive tenacity of Alvin Robertson (the Bruce Bowen of his day). Of course, I would be remiss if I didn't give a shout out to the Bruise Brothers (Mark Olberding, Paul Griffin, Dave Corzine, Reggie Johnson, Kevin Restani). http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblog...ory_the_1.html

There have been a stream of fantastic players that came through here. Some went on to formidable careers, others were simply role players who made their mark during a brief tenure. It should be known that the Spurs were perennial playoff contenders during the latter seasons of their ABA days. Following the ABA/NBA merger, this success carried over into their early NBA days of the late '70s, when they very nearly, and should have, advanced to the NBA Finals in '79.

If ever watch NBATV, you know that we all get bombarded by constant offseason coverage on the history of franchises like the Celtics, Fakers, Pistons, and Bulls. As if those have been the only successful franchises in NBA history. Don't believe the hype. This franchise has had a very unique and storied history, in it's own right. One that I would rank just behind Celtics and Fakers. There were many, many disappointments along the way, but there was a lot of excitement, as well. Now we there are multiple titles to add to that history.

Everyone should absolutely enjoy and appreciate this era of Spurs basketball. It's been the best and most successful, by far. However, do know that the Spurs history just didn't start with the Duncan/Pop era. Every true Spurs fan would be better served knowing more about it.

If interested, find out more about our franchise history by way of the following:

http://www.nba.com/spurs/history/spurs_history.html

http://www.sportsecyclopedia.com/nba...nio/spurs.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Antonio_Spurs

After all, it's still another 2 1/2 months before the season begins. :lol

Duncan, if it weren't for him, no championships

While Duncan is the best, there is no question Robinson is the most influential. He is the one who turned the Spurs from an offensive team into a much more defensive oriented team.

He also kept the Spurs in San Antonio, and kept the team afloat during the 90s.

Another thing is, even though we will never be sure whether Duncan will leave or not in '00, but the fact is that Robinson came back from a vacation at Hawaii to talk to the guy and convince him to stay.

Voted D-Rob

DRob baby....but I will not be upset if Timmy gets #1.

I am a bit upset that Manu has 2 votes and Ice has 0.

Our top 3 players in franchise history are Robinson, Duncan, and Ice.......hands down, no ifs, ands, or buts. These are the only 3 Spurs that deserve any votes for the top spot.....Pop doesnt even deserve a vote. the fact that this poll has more than those 3 is a farce.

Instead of wasting our time and opening this debate up for trolls to go crazy....you should have made the poll with three names....Gervin, Robinson, Duncan.

Then when we vote for number two.....it would be the two players who didnt win the #1 spot......this would eventually get us our top 3 based on fan votes......

After this, we can start including all the other names for 4-50.

I voted for David because if it were not for his hard work, character, and dedication early on and throughout his whole career we would not be the team we are today.
Also, since David was the one to mentor Timmy, I gave David the number one slot over Timmy.
That was the tie breaker for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Biggems

DRob baby....but I will not be upset if Timmy gets #1.

I am a bit upset that Manu has 2 votes and Ice has 0.

Our top 3 players in franchise history are Robinson, Duncan, and Ice.......hands down, no ifs, ands, or buts. These are the only 3 Spurs that deserve any votes for the top spot.....Pop doesnt even deserve a vote. the fact that this poll has more than those 3 is a farce.

Instead of wasting our time and opening this debate up for trolls to go crazy....you should have made the poll with three names....Gervin, Robinson, Duncan.

Then when we vote for number two.....it would be the two players who didnt win the #1 spot......this would eventually get us our top 3 based on fan votes......

After this, we can start including all the other names for 4-50.

---

o_O

I agree that TD is #1 but I put my vote in for Angelo Drossos. I know TD will win and that is fine but mine is more a sentimental gesture. As an old school Spurs fan, I owe it to Mr. Drossos for spearheading the effort to bring the Spurs here.

Robinson.

He still is the heart and soul of the Spurs. Without Robinson there is no Duncan. The man deserves this honor.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...6022400065.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bruno

Even if Duncan is likely a better player than Robinson

---

Is he? I think it's difficult to conclude that. A few key stats regarding DRob's place in NBA history:

-Won the scoring title, rebounding title, and blocked shots title during his career. The only other player in NBA history to do that is Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

-Only player in NBA history to be named to the All-NBA team and All-Defensive team each of his first seven seasons.

-One of the 50 Greatest Players of all-time.

We know about the many awards David won (MVP, Rookie of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, etc.). We are aware that he is the US Olympic Team's all-time leader in scoring, rebounding, and blocked shots. Most of us know that he won the IBM Award five times. Those things are all outstanding and should not be ignored. But what sets him apart in my mind is that he often did more with less.

Many people will vote for Duncan because of the four championships, or perhaps because they are young and became Spurs fans only after Duncan became a Spur. But anyone who watched our team during the 1990's knows that we were among the NBA's best teams despite having less talent than most of the other contenders. Think about it:

-Michael Jordan had Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, and a nice cast of role players to help him look good.
-Hakeem Olajuwon had Clyde Drexler, Otis Thorpe, Sam Cassell, Robert Horry, etc.
-Karl Malone had John Stockton, Byron Russell, etc.
-Charles Barkley had Kevin Johnson, Cedric Ceballos, etc.
-David Robinson had Sean Elliott - as well as Vinny Del Negro, Negele Knight, Charles Smith, and a volatile Dennis Rodman.

See the disconnect there? Not only that, but DRob was the victim of some horrible coaches like Jerry Tarkanian and Bob Hill. John Lucas was okay but hardly considered a good coach. An argument could be made that all three of those coaches were unprepared to be NBA coaches.

Contrast this with Tim Duncan's situation. He had David Robinson, one of the best big men to ever play the game. Give David someone like that, and we would've won multiple titles in the 1990's. But Tim has also had Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, and some outstanding role players - not to mention Gregg Popovich as his coach. I'm not taking anything away from Tim because he is an outstanding player. But there is no arguing that Tim has had a much better situation than DRob ever had. It's not even close.

The real question is, would Tim have done what David did - which is amazing by any standard - if his supporting cast and coaching staff were as subpar as David's usually were? I don't think he would've. And that is the main reason why I voted for David.

Oh yeah, and as a bonus he also did a thing or two for the city of San Antonio and was a decent representative for our team. ;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

DRob...regardless of what happened before or since he got here, the Spurs would not be in SA without him and neither would Tim Duncan. David Robinson turned down untold millions, greater fame, and more championships to play for the Spurs. He turned down the chance to play with Magic Johnson and replace Kareem Abdul Jabbar in LA, to play for a cash strapped lottery team that was on the verge of leaving it's town.

I do not think one other player in team history would have been willing to do that had they been in David Robinson's place. I can't think of many NBA players in history would have done that. It takes a special man to make that decision at the time Drob made it, a guy who truly pulls for the underdog.

IF DRob had been all about championships and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.

If Drob had been all about fame and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.

If Drob had been all about money and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.

Drob knew he was taking the hard path to fame, fortune and titles, when he signed with the Spurs, and he still did it.

Drob all the way...

---

Agreed...and while I believe Tim Duncan is the best player the Spurs have ever had, David Robinson is the top Spur, the embodiment of what the franchise stands for.

The standard that exists, the "culture" and way the organization conducts itself in all facets in my opinion is a reflection of David Robinson. As a team leader, the face of the franchise, you just couldn't have a better representative...First class citizen, outstanding professional on and off the floor...this organization would not be what it is today if it were not for Drob.

Honestly, it's an easy pick.

What does it mean being a spur?
I mean really?

Is it about who made the franchise?
Who kept it alive?
Who made them (organization) famous?
Who was the organization?

:flag:

All said, I think the guy who really brought Spurs into a real deal contender was Tim. When Dave was here they were contenders but I don't think the other teams were so afraid of them knowing Dave can be broke down psychologically.
The only team with Dave that had real chance of making history achieving first LOBTrophy :lobt: was 1996 and we know what happened.

Tims play not only was great but he made spurs the most winningest franchise in history of pro sports. He made the spurs the team which is respectable right now. It was not that way during Dave era.

It is tough to decide but I had to go with Big Dave.

First of all, it is not out of line to say that if not for Dave the Spurs might have moved to some other city during the early 90's.

Second, Dave has won just about every indivisual award a player could attain in his career.

Led the league in Scoring!!

League MVP!!

Defensive Player of the Year!!!

Rookie of the Year!!!

3 time Olympic Medalist!!!

On the 50 Greatest Players of all time!!!he man scored 71 pts in a game!!!!

He had a quadruple double!!!



Finally my main reason for going with D. Rob is that as much as we love the Spurs; look at the players that surrounded Dave before the Duncan era compared to the team that surrounds Timmy.

Dave's teams averaged 50+ wins a season mainly because of him alone.

If Dave had a Tony, a Manu, a Bowen and the like around him we would not have had to wait til T.D. showed up to win it all.


There were and are Great players on the Spurs team but if i have to single down to one guy then that man is the Admiral.

ok all this love in the comments for the admiral but he is trailing big time on the poll :depressed

I'm voting for Tim..

I feel like David Robinson is probably the most underrated superstar in NBA history..a top 15 player of all-time that gets taken for granted..he's also one of the top defenders in NBA history, one of the few guys that I would rank AHEAD of Tim..but I rank Duncan ahead of him because of the post-season..I feel like Duncan is a more reliable player in the playoffs and is much less likely to choke in the playoffs..while I think The Admiral's playoff "chokes" are very exaggerated, he still had a number of them..Tim hasn't had many to talk about, and usually elevates his game to a much higher level in the playoffs..

One more vote for David Robinson

Ok, now history is history but imagine Tim being before Admiral in San Antonio, wouldnt he set the tone for the franchise?

Well how far his charisma is from giving the franchise what Dave gave?

We would talk about Tim, how great example he was for the rest especially for Dave who then lead the team to next sucesses.

Tim Duncan is number 1.

DROB is number 2.

Thanks to all who are taking the time to educate the board on the history of our team. It's great stuff and your efforts are appreciated.

(Special thanks to timvp for asking us to post why we made our choices. The result is wonderful.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by E20

Tim Duncan is number 1.

DROB is number 2.

---

polandprzem in number 3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

I'm voting for Tim..

I feel like David Robinson is probably the most underrated superstar in NBA history..a top 15 player of all-time that gets taken for granted..he's also one of the top defenders in NBA history, one of the few guys that I would rank AHEAD of Tim..but I rank Duncan ahead of him because of the post-season..I feel like Duncan is a more reliable player in the playoffs and is much less likely to choke in the playoffs..while I think The Admiral's playoff "chokes" are very exaggerated, he still had a number of them..Tim hasn't had many to talk about, and usually elevates his game to a much higher level in the playoffs..

---

Is it choking when DRob was the option and all opponents had to do was double, triple, and even quatruple team him to slow him down and render the Spurs ineffective? Is it David's fault that he put up his, but his teammates disappeared in the postseason?

Put David on this current Spurs team, instead of Duncan, and I firmly believe the Spurs are still as dominant, if not more.

But if we go by sheer accolades and success, Duncan would have to be 1, David 2, and Gervin 3. And although, I would list David as my number 1......for the overall unbiased list....I think the Duncan, Robinson, Gervin listing fits perfectly. Quite frankly, I am just ecstatic that we, as Spurs fans, have gotten the honor to enjoy the careers of all 3 great players.

GO SPURS GO

Gervin and Robinson may have ensured that the San Antonio Spurs stayed in the League, but Duncan brought them to greatness. It was like the switch turned on as soon as we dropped that lottery ball. Without Duncan, Robinson may never get any ring, and we may not even have A title, and therefore wouldn't even have much fuel for a Top 50 debate.

Not to mention that as a player, Duncan's professionalism, pride, and humility are unsurpassed. He has made countless contributions and sacrifices for this team, and is still well in the middle of carving out his legacy. You can't ask much more from a player than Tim Duncan gives each and every day.

Give Robinson-Gervin the 2-3 spot, but Duncan stands alone at #1.

Ok Ok Ok.....i have sifted through all of these arguments.....and I have made my top 20.....I was ignoring non players before, but now I have included them, along with activities beyond the court.

1. Drossos
2. Robinson
3. Pop
4. Duncan
5. Gervin
7. McCombs
8. Manu
9. Bass
10. Elliott
11. Robertson
12. Parker
13. Silas
14. Kenon
15. Bowen
16. Cummings
17. Gilmore
18. Mitchell
19. Avery
20. Willie Anderson

Bold = Nonplayers

(obscure reference alert!)

C'mon people! Timmy didn't even know that the Gnome was out until Dave told him!
:lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by samikeyp

(obscure reference alert!)

C'mon people! Timmy didn't even know that the Gnome was out until Dave told him!
:lol

---

no one can deny tim duncan's accomplishments. robinson was a great player but duncan is one of the best ever. there are very little people on any team and during any era who can match duncan's accomplishments and leadership. some say that robinson created the current culture of the spurs but i think it was duncan who solidified it by bringing back the championship trophies. the defensive culture of the spurs wouldn't have lasted long if they could not win championships. duncan brought that and permanently cemented the spurs' legacy in the nba.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by duncan228

---

That commercial always makes me smile. :downspin:

whatever happened to "its the name on the front of the jersey, not the name on the back" :stirpot:

i havent been a fan as long as some others, but if its about the SAN ANTONIO spurs, and not who the best player is, i would think the list should be something like:

1. Drossos (for bringing the team to SA)
2. Gervin (for allowing them to survive the merger)
3. Drob (for allowing a small market team to survive the 90's spendathon)
4. Duncan (for making them winners)

the rest i dont really know enough about... except that manu, parker and bowen have to be in the top 15 somewhere

Without Tim Duncan, Spurs would not be in San Antonio anymore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by century

Without Tim Duncan, Spurs would not be in San Antonio anymore.

---

Very true.

As it was true with David Robinson before him and George Gervin before DRob.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Admiral

Is he? I think it's difficult to conclude that. A few key stats regarding DRob's place in NBA history:

-Won the scoring title, rebounding title, and blocked shots title during his career. The only other player in NBA history to do that is Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

-Only player in NBA history to be named to the All-NBA team and All-Defensive team each of his first seven seasons.

-One of the 50 Greatest Players of all-time.

We know about the many awards David won (MVP, Rookie of the Year, Defensive Player of the Year, etc.). We are aware that he is the US Olympic Team's all-time leader in scoring, rebounding, and blocked shots. Most of us know that he won the IBM Award five times. Those things are all outstanding and should not be ignored. But what sets him apart in my mind is that he often did more with less.

Many people will vote for Duncan because of the four championships, or perhaps because they are young and became Spurs fans only after Duncan became a Spur. But anyone who watched our team during the 1990's knows that we were among the NBA's best teams despite having less talent than most of the other contenders. Think about it:

-Michael Jordan had Scottie Pippen, Horace Grant, and a nice cast of role players to help him look good.
-Hakeem Olajuwon had Clyde Drexler, Otis Thorpe, Sam Cassell, Robert Horry, etc.
-Karl Malone had John Stockton, Byron Russell, etc.
-Charles Barkley had Kevin Johnson, Cedric Ceballos, etc.
-David Robinson had Sean Elliott - as well as Vinny Del Negro, Negele Knight, Charles Smith, and a volatile Dennis Rodman.

See the disconnect there? Not only that, but DRob was the victim of some horrible coaches like Jerry Tarkanian and Bob Hill. John Lucas was okay but hardly considered a good coach. An argument could be made that all three of those coaches were unprepared to be NBA coaches.

Contrast this with Tim Duncan's situation. He had David Robinson, one of the best big men to ever play the game. Give David someone like that, and we would've won multiple titles in the 1990's. But Tim has also had Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, and some outstanding role players - not to mention Gregg Popovich as his coach. I'm not taking anything away from Tim because he is an outstanding player. But there is no arguing that Tim has had a much better situation than DRob ever had. It's not even close.

The real question is, would Tim have done what David did - which is amazing by any standard - if his supporting cast and coaching staff were as subpar as David's usually were? I don't think he would've. And that is the main reason why I voted for David.

Oh yeah, and as a bonus he also did a thing or two for the city of San Antonio and was a decent representative for our team. ;)

---

Preach on, my brother. I've long felt if Dave would've had the FO support afforded Tim, he wouldn't have had to wait as long to win a title. The Spurs teams of the late 80's and early '90's (pre-Pop) were a beacon of inconsistency - both on the court and in the front-office. Coaches changed, players changed.

Duncan possesses a single-minded greatness that few have ever matched. He will go down as the best PF in NBA history. However, it cannot be understated that by the time Duncan's career is over, he would've played with 2 sure-fire HOF teammates in Manu and Tony. David, on the other hand, was never part of any such Big Three. In his early years, he had Terry Cummings and Sean Elliott. Neither was or will ever be a HOF player.

Sigh.

I really miss David. I was just a little fart, hadn't even discovered my penis yet when I fell in love with him and the Spurs. Can't believe I am 23, and that he is long gone. And when they go much like Duncan will, you'll wonder where all those years went.

/emu

There are only three possible choices: Robinson, Gervin, and Drossos.

Basically without Drossos there would be no Gervin, and without Gervin there would be no NBA team and no Robinson. Robinson, however, is the major reason for the current glory days, both in terms of championship and character.

I'm going to go with DRob 1A, Gervin 1B, and Drossos 1C.

Tim Duncan is their best player ever, but he never saved the franchise.

Anybody who votes for Manu or Tony is a clown.

No votes for Gervin? That is unbelievably embarrassing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

No votes for Gervin? That is unbelievably embarrassing.

---

Not really. It comes down to Robinson or Drossos to me and DRob by a wide margin. imo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Biggems

Is it choking when DRob was the option and all opponents had to do was double, triple, and even quatruple team him to slow him down and render the Spurs ineffective? Is it David's fault that he put up his, but his teammates disappeared in the postseason?

Put David on this current Spurs team, instead of Duncan, and I firmly believe the Spurs are still as dominant, if not more.

But if we go by sheer accolades and success, Duncan would have to be 1, David 2, and Gervin 3. And although, I would list David as my number 1......for the overall unbiased list....I think the Duncan, Robinson, Gervin listing fits perfectly. Quite frankly, I am just ecstatic that we, as Spurs fans, have gotten the honor to enjoy the careers of all 3 great players.

GO SPURS GO

---

there's no doubt that Duncan's supporting cast was definitely better from 2006(maybe 2005) until 2008..the rest is arguable(not counting the early years where Robinson was still near his prime)..but I don't buy that argument against Tim..in case everybody forgot, Duncan's supporting cast was FAR from great from 2001 until 2004..it was solid, but he didn't have anybody on the team that was even nearly an all-star..it was always Tim vs. the Lakers with little help..the 2003 team is regarded by many to be the worst supporting cast to WIN A TITLE in NBA history..full of solid role players, but not one complimentary player..

I think a lot of people forget how dominant Tim was in his MVP years..the rest of the team played horribly in the 2003 playoffs, he was the one dominating..of course we had people step up at times(like Jax and Kerr for instance) but Duncan was focused on for those entire playoffs, and put up amazing stats..he led our team in points, rebounds, blocks and ASSISTS during the playoffs..almost led in FG% as well..Tim just elevates his game to a new level in the playoffs, even with a weaker supporting cast compared to what he has right now..nobody can win a title without a good supporting cast, but Tim won a title with a relatively weak supporting cast compared to other championship teams..

I'm gonna have to go with Drossos.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

There are only three possible choices: Robinson, Gervin, and Drossos.

Basically without Drossos there would be no Gervin, and without Gervin there would be no NBA team and no Robinson. Robinson, however, is the major reason for the current glory days, both in terms of championship and character.

I'm going to go with DRob 1A, Gervin 1B, and Drossos 1C.

Tim Duncan is their best player ever, but he never saved the franchise.

---

I'm going to have to disagree. I was going to vote for Robinson but I thought of it more and realized that all four of those people saved the franchise one way or another.

First Drossos was the driving force behind the very existence of the franchise. He helped secure the original ABA franchise, he went out and got Gervin, fought to keep that trade valid and then basically refused to be ignored and got the Spurs into the NBA. He definitely deserves a lot of credit and really shouldn't fall out of the top four in this list.

Then you have Gervin who brought the entertainment value to the Spurs and put them on the map. Without Gervin, the Spurs likely don't draw the crowds and then they don't have the financial stability to last. Without Gervin, the chances San Antonio is let into the NBA are probably close to zero. San Antonio needed a superstar to survive and he definitely was just that.

Robinson has been covered extensively in this thread and he is due of all the praise he has been given. He came to San Antonio, saw the rich tradition of the franchise and realized that if he didn't sign with the Spurs, the Spurs would have died. Out of pure and possibly unfounded loyalty he kept the Spurs afloat numerous times when he could have easily turned his back and gone on to greener surroundings. But he decided that keeping the Spurs alive was more important than money, fame and championship. And even today, he remains a big part of everything.

But to say Duncan didn't save the Spurs isn't accurate. If the Spurs don't win the 1999 championship, the SBC Center never gets built and the Spurs leave. The difference with Duncan and Robinson is that Robinson overtly saved the franchise ... while Duncan just so happened to save the franchise on his way to winning championships. Robinson was dedicated to San Antonio, the Spurs and keeping the legacy. Duncan is dedicated to winning championships. But even though Duncan has different motives, the result of saving the franchise was the same. If the Spurs didn't turn into a championship franchise when they did, they were on the chopping block to be sent packing. All the hard work from Drossos, Gervin and Robinson would have been lost.

Now if you consider all four of those individuals as franchise savers, I think Duncan barely takes the lead over Robinson. By a very, very narrow margin. And really, it's not a fair playing field because Robinson suffered perhaps the worst run organization and worst set of teammates around him during his prime of any superstar in NBA history. On the other hand, Duncan probably stepped into one of the three or four best situations of anyone in NBA history. But sports is results driven and Duncan has helped deliver all four championships and his passive aggressive demand of continued winning has kept the Spurs at a high level for a long amount of time. Duncan definitely has received a tremendous amount of help throughout the years and lucked into the situation he fell into but he has taken the Spurs from a storybook franchise to a championship franchise that will one day be remembered for this dominant stretch we are currently witnessing.

It is really damn close but I have to put Duncan as number one, with a sincere tip of the hat to the other three individuals who made it possible for the Spurs to become what they are today.

This is a little nit-picky but I wouldn't say Duncan saved the franchise because I believe without him it would still exist...but I don't think it would exist in SA. So it could be said he saved the San Antonio Spurs....they very well could be in St. Louis, New Orleans or Nashville right now.

All that being said...good cases are made for all of them and this was a great idea for a thread.

:toast to timvp.

:) timvp breaking it down in his usual voice of reason.

And I agree, a :toast is well deserved. This thread is great.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

Tim Duncan is their best player ever, but he never saved the franchise.

---

I dare to disagree with you on that one.
Even during the 1999 Finals there were voices Baltimore will be the next home for the Spurs. It has changed since then.

Maybe it changed since there were plans for building SBC Center - but if not for Tim I do not know if there still would be an interest to do money on basketball building a new arena.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by samikeyp

This is a little nit-picky but I wouldn't say Duncan saved the franchise because I believe without him it would still exist...but I don't think it would exist in SA. So it could be said he saved the San Antonio Spurs....they very well could be in St. Louis, New Orleans or Nashville right now.

---

Pretty true. However, then you'd have to use the same logic against Robinson and maybe Gervin. Drossos is on pretty solid ground using this logic, however if he would have left early on, McCombs might have stepped forward to pull the Spurs through the NBA.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lj

But to say Duncan didn't save the Spurs isn't accurate. If the Spurs don't win the 1999 championship, the SBC Center never gets built and the Spurs leave. The difference with Duncan and Robinson is that Robinson overtly saved the franchise ... while Duncan just so happened to save the franchise on his way to winning championships. Robinson was dedicated to San Antonio, the Spurs and keeping the legacy. Duncan is dedicated to winning championships. But even though Duncan has different motives, the result of saving the franchise was the same. If the Spurs didn't turn into a championship franchise when they did, they were on the chopping block to be sent packing. All the hard work from Drossos, Gervin and Robinson would have been lost.

---

yup

when you write a post 10 minutes then you gonna get "beat to it"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timvp

Pretty true. However, then you'd have to use the same logic against Robinson and maybe Gervin. Drossos is on pretty solid ground using this logic, however if he would have left early on, McCombs might have stepped forward to pull the Spurs through the NBA.

---

True, like he helped out the team in the late 80's when he bought the majority stake in the team when they needed new ownership.


Of course he also hired Jerry Tarkanian! :lol or as he referred to him once "Coach Tarkington" :lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by polandprzem

I dare to disagree with you on that one.
Even during the 1999 Finals there were voices Baltimore will be the next home for the Spurs. It has changed since then.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timvp

It is really damn close but I have to put Duncan as number one, with a sincere tip of the hat to the other three individuals who made it possible for the Spurs to become what they are today.

---

And I'm going to have to disagree because of this: if Tim Duncan had never come along, the Spurs still have a solid history from 1973-2000, even if there aren't any titles. For many, Duncan didn't make us any more of a Spurs fan than we already were.

Drossos and Gervin took the Spurs from zero and made them viable. Asking whether they were more important than Duncan is like asking whether James Naismith was more important than David Stern.

In the end, the reason I voted Robinson was that he had the hardest job of them all, taking what was no longer a novelty (a pro team in SA), maintaining its popularity despite circumstances that weren't optimal, and serving as the bridge and role model for a dominant franchise.

Oh, and BTW, Angelo Drossos made Peter Holt look like Dan Synder.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

Oh, and BTW, Angelo Drossos made Peter Holt look like Dan Synder.

---

:lol

That rumble you heard was Angelo spinning in his grave. :)

Hey, the dude did what he had to survive under those conditions. In retrospect, the idea of the Spurs of the 70s competing on the same level as the big markets is kinda amazing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

There are only three possible choices: Robinson, Gervin, and Drossos.

Basically without Drossos there would be no Gervin, and without Gervin there would be no NBA team and no Robinson. Robinson, however, is the major reason for the current glory days, both in terms of championship and character.

I'm going to go with DRob 1A, Gervin 1B, and Drossos 1C.

Tim Duncan is their best player ever, but he never saved the franchise.

Anybody who votes for Manu or Tony is a clown.

---

My vote was for Duncan. And yes, he did save the franchise by leading the Spurs to the '99 Title. No '99 Title, no SBC Center, no Spurs in SA anymore.
Please do not discount this fact. It's easy to forget now, but it was almost a reality. Now, after all the success of the last 10 years, it's hard to envision this team ever leaving SA.

Because of that, he's at least in the same ballpark with Angelo D, Gervin, and D-Rob in the "Franchise Savior" department. Then, when you add in the element of turning a good franchise into one of the All-Time great franchises, it's really no contest in my opinion.

I have lived in Phoenix for pretty much Duncan's entire career, and most of my friends are Suns fans. Sometimes Spurs fans take for granted this current era of 4 Championships in 10 years. You have no idea what these poor, loyal, passionate Phoenix fans would give for even 1.

The only NBA teams that have won at least 4 titles in 10 years are the Celtics, Lakers, Bulls, and our Spurs. Without Duncan, we'd be in the company of the likes of the Cavs, Pacers, Suns, Mavs, Nets, etc... - good teams that weren't quite good enough. And, without Duncan, we'd be residing in New Orleans or Oklahoma City to top it off.

Folks, he's the greatest Forward ever, and a top 10 player in League history. He's also not even finished yet. In my opinion, this is a no-brainer.

For me, I went with Five-Oh. In a school where Michael Jordan was King, i was looking for someone else to follow. Along came David, and I have never turned back. I remember reading about his rookie of the year, and seeing his 360 dunk (i was young, give me a break) and going - damn, i like that guy! He gave hope, that nice guys could do well ;)

But, from a more logical perspective (and not a 50 fanboy one) - out of the group of 4 that was mentioned before (Gervin, Drossos, D-Rob and TD) he has had probably the biggest impact in keeping key things in SA (the team, TD, himself) than the others, and more than anybody (to me at least) he IS the spurs.

I wouldn't be a fan without him. I most likely would have been a fan of AFL. Bleuch. If i ever like that sport, somebody, please kill me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

Hey, the dude did what he had to survive under those conditions. In retrospect, the idea of the Spurs of the 70s competing on the same level as the big markets is kinda amazing.

---

No doubt. :toast

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

And I'm going to have to disagree

---

Yeah, disagreements on this list are bound to happen. The difference between the top four in my eyes is razor thin. I mean, Gervin really does have a good case because without him, the Spurs dream would have likely died in the ABA. Now that I think about it, he might be the only one who we can definitely say kept the Spurs as a franchise alive.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

if Tim Duncan had never come along, the Spurs still have a solid history from 1973-2000, even if there aren't any titles. For many, Duncan didn't make us any more of a Spurs fan than we already were.

---

True. Although I think 50 years from now, when the Spurs are mentioned the period of time that will be first mentioned is the Tim Duncan Era. Not exactly fair but will almost certainly be the case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

Drossos and Gervin took the Spurs from zero and made them viable. Asking whether they were more important than Duncan is like asking whether James Naismith was more important than David Stern.

---

I think a better comparison would be to say who is more importnat, Naismith or Jordan. Naismith invented the game but it can be argued that Jordan is the reason the NBA went from tape delayed to a game played by practically the whole world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

In the end, the reason I voted Robinson was that he had the hardest job of them all, taking what was no longer a novelty (a pro team in SA), maintaining its popularity despite circumstances that weren't optimal, and serving as the bridge and role model for a dominant franchise.

---

Agreed with all points. Those who look at the Spurs from the outside will never really understand the importance of David Robinson to San Antonio and the Spurs. Unless you were a fan through that era, it is almost impossible to understand the magnitude of his importance.

You ask the average NBA fan, or even someone who claims to be an NBA expert, and they'd say Duncan >>>>>>>>>> Robinson in this poll ... however at the most, Duncan = Robinson or Duncan > Robinson.

red mccombs

I don't think any knowledgeable fan would say that Duncan is that much better than Robinson..

I had to go with Duncan. It's not that he's a better player or anything, but he has allowed us to stay at a very high level of competition for a long time. It's cool to make the playoffs or fight for the last seeds or whatever, but we have had very very good odds to win it all with Duncan and co. While you can always say "well if Robinson had a better supporting cast..." but you know, hindsight is 20/20. Fact is, Duncan brought the titles. He has allowed this franchise to gain a significant amount of profit and fame. He has kept us at the highest tier of competition and even our losses have been spectacular.

The difference between Robinson and Duncan is minute, but I feel like I have to give Duncan the nod for delivering results.

I don't think it really matters how they are ordered. The first 3-5 are going to be very interchangable.

Tim Duncan not even close

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

I don't think any knowledgeable fan would say that Duncan is that much better than Robinson..

---

average NBA fan is saying that D-Rob is a pussy cause he never was able to lead his team - plus playoff was the ground where he failed to rise his game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by lj

To pass the time until the start of preseason, let's see how SpursTalk.com ranks the Top 50 Spurs. Those eligible for the list include all players, coaches and owners. I don't want to define "top" too narrowly, but I think the best way to do it would be to think of the list as a list of the 50 most influential people who have helped make the Spurs one of the most successful franchises in the history of sport.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by polandprzem

average NBA fan is saying that D-Rob is a pussy cause he never was able to lead his team - plus playoff was the ground where he failed to rise his game.

---

If that is the case, then average NBA fan is a dumbass.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brutalis

It's a real disadvantage because half of all the fans (at least) came with TD and don't understand the value of DRob himself.

The arguments that come to mind are..

1) TD won titles without DRob.

However.. TD had a better team at all times when DRob did not. I highly doubt TD's win ratio would have been better or the same as DRob's with the teams David was on.

2) Stats. Robinson owns them over TD. And I ignore the last couple years of David's career, as he played with ailing back. Besides, I bet when TD's decline years hurt his average his stats wouldn't be on DRob's level either.

---

TD had a better team than D Rob I agree on that there, he wins one or two titles with Duncans cast IMO. In 95 the Spurs win the title with Manu and Parker out there, I agree that Tims cast has been better. Tim has an extra gear though in big games it seems that D Rob did not have or wasn't as good at, his fire for the game is just untouched at times and he just has that extra gear few ever have. I think D Rob was more athletic and a freak of nature, but overall post skills and moves I gotta go with Timmay there, he just has go to moves David did not have in the post.


BTW I was here for D Rob and loved him to death, not a new jack who just came when Tim came.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by polandprzem

average NBA fan is saying that D-Rob is a pussy cause he never was able to lead his team - plus playoff was the ground where he failed to rise his game.

---

D Rob had some good playoff series, but he was not a monster in some series like Tim has been. Tim is just on that whole different level when it comes to the playoffs it seems, he has a gear D Rob did not have IMO.

I picked Gervin. But I can see why Duncan would be the top spur. Duncan is the reason why the spurs have been successful the last 10 years. No coincidence that championships did not happen until Duncan came so thats an argument against both Robinson and Gervin.

But Gervin was the first star for the spurs and without him the spurs would have folded with all the other ABA teams that did not get into the NBA. So Duncan is the best Spur player but Gervin is the most important.

Gervin was the big star of one of the most exciting teams in the aba at the time of the merger and this played a big role in attracting the NBA to admit a small market team like the Spurs. Had the spurs been a bad team they would have folded with the ABA.

Many on this forum don't remember gervin and I am sure this will cost him votes but he is clearly over Robinson as the most important Spur but I am not sure he is above Duncan. They are close. It could be Duncan or Gervin 1 and the other 2 then Robinson.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bruno

Even if Duncan is likely a better player than Robinson, I'm not sure that he is the better Spur.
Duncan nearly left SA in 2000, that is to say only 3 years after coming in NBA.
He stayed because Spurs won in 99 and because DRob came back from Hawaii to talk with him.
I still will wait a little before voting to hear people arguments but I think I will vote for Robinson.

---

No he didn't leave.

Robinson is not even more important than Gervin. Robinson could not win without Duncan.

This is a good idea going from 1'st to last. Eliminate the players as they get picked then take the vote again for the next spot.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rascal

Robinson is not even more important than Gervin. Robinson could not win without Duncan.

---

And Gervin could?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timvp

And Gervin could?

---

No, thats not the point. Gervin is a big reason the spurs got into the nba.
If Robinson did not deliver titles then how can he be more valuable than Gervin?

I know Robinson was on 2 title teams but he could not win before Duncan came.
And Duncan has proved he could win without Robinson. The 2nd title Robinson was a shell of his former self so he rode Duncan to that title.

The titles put Duncan up above Robinson. The importance of getting into the nba puts Gervin ahead of Robinson.

Duncan or Gervin 1 any order
Duncan or Gervin 2
Robinson 3

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rascal

No, thats not the point. Gervin is a big reason the spurs got into the nba.
If Robinson did not deliver titles then how can he be more valuable than Gervin?

I know Robinson was on 2 title teams but he could not win before Duncan came.
And Duncan has proved he could win without Robinson. The 2nd title Robinson was a shell of his former self so he rode Duncan to that title.

The titles put Duncan up above Robinson. The importance of getting into the nba puts Gervin ahead of Robinson.

Duncan or Gervin 1 any order
Duncan or Gervin 2
Robinson 3

---

The way this poll is looking, that is an argument you should use in the next poll. I don't necessarily agree but like I said earlier, Gervin might be the most vital ingredient of them all in terms of allowing the Spurs franchise to make the transition from ABA to NBA and thus secure the franchise's existence.

The Gervin over Robinson arguement is very very flawed.

It's embarrassing that people voted for Manu or Tony.

Manu has more votes than Drossos.

Check yourself people. SERIOUSLY!!!

We remember what we want to. Everyone remembers the disappointing series against the Rockets in the 1995 Western Conference Finals, and unfortunately for David those 6 games earned him the "soft" label. For many people, including Spurs fans, it doesn't matter what he did before or since. It doesn't matter than he had some incredible playoff performances and some absolutely huge plays for us in the postseason. All they remember is that series and the fact that he won zero championships before Duncan arrived.

On the flip side, people remember Tim's near quadruple double in the Finals. They see the Finals MVPs and the championships and remember that. They don't remember some of the horrible performances he's had. They don't remember the frustrating plays he's made at times, or the wins we've had in the playoffs due to someone else on the team having a huge game.

I'm not taking anything away from Tim. He's an amazing player who is among the best power forwards ever. But you can't ignore the fact that his performances have been greatly aided by having an excellent supporting cast around him. If the defense has to pay attention to several other guys who are capable of scoring, they can't focus so much on one player. Do you really think the 1995 Houston Rockets would play the same defense on the current Spurs team that they played on the 1995 Spurs? Of course not. And that has a big role in how the superstar performs. Failing to recognize that is a crucial error in reasoning.

For that matter, do you think replacing David with Tim in 1995 would've made a difference? If so, I have some wonderful oceanfront property in Kansas to sell you...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by whottt

DRob...regardless of what happened before or since he got here, the Spurs would not be in SA without him and neither would Tim Duncan. David Robinson turned down untold millions, greater fame, and more championships to play for the Spurs. He turned down the chance to play with Magic Johnson and replace Kareem Abdul Jabbar in LA, to play for a cash strapped lottery team that was on the verge of leaving it's town.

I do not think one other player in team history would have been willing to do that had they been in David Robinson's place. I can't think of many NBA players in history would have done that. It takes a special man to make that decision at the time Drob made it, a guy who truly pulls for the underdog.

IF DRob had been all about championships and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.

If Drob had been all about fame and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.

If Drob had been all about money and nothing but...he wouldn't have signed with the Spurs when he did.

Drob knew he was taking the hard path to fame, fortune and titles, when he signed with the Spurs, and he still did it.

Drob all the way...

---

Damn, that is a great argument that really makes me think about my already cast vote for Tim Duncan.

It makes me think to how shitty I felt when I heard Rick Barry saying David would go to the Lakers on the day we finally drafted our franchise bigman.

Ginobili has more votes than Ice?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gooshie

My vote was for Duncan. And yes, he did save the franchise by leading the Spurs to the '99 Title. No '99 Title, no SBC Center, no Spurs in SA anymore.

---

No one should ever forget this. If you go back and watch the press conference after game 5 of the 99 Finals, he basically says he re-signs with the Spurs if the city builds them a new arena.