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Originally Posted by Solid D
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Originally Posted by Solid D
Our four (4) Larry O'Brien trophies in the last 10 years beg to differ...Quote:
Originally Posted by AC#21_TD ERA
:lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt:
Your talking about this year but its the same thing every year with the spurs. They never can make any impact deals because they are tied up so to speak with cap worries and undesirable role players.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
The spurs haven't been able to make any of these type of moves in the 10 years since Pop took over. They have no creativity what so ever in making any type of trades where they package expiring contracts with future draft picks to get impact players at bargain cost. The lack of moves in improving the team will doom Duncan's final years.
Falling short like last year will be repeated year after year if the spurs decide that a core of the so called big 3 will be it and just surround them with over the hill types or bench player quality starters (Oberto or Thomas)or bench players from other teams as starters(Mason).
Manu and Bowen will begin to decline rapidly in the next couple of years and the spurs will be fighting an uphill battle this year, with the Lakers and Houston adding top impact players and young up and coming teams like the Blazers and Hornets getting better.
so your solution would be to overpay some role players until their contracts are expiring and then use them to deal for a superstar? I see far more prudence in acquiring role players who come at realistic prices and fit within the club's salary structure. Of course, I'm also not here screaming for desperation moves, either.Quote:
Originally Posted by rascal
That's not true at all -- of the top of my head, the deal that sent out Danny Ferry's expired deal to get both Ron Mercer and Hedo Turkoglu immediately comes to mind as the sort of deal that you seek. That deal didn't work out so well, personnel wise (although Turkoglu has certainly started to fulfill some of the promise that many had seen in him). But it's completely wrong to say that the Spurs haven't made any sort of creative deals in 10 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by rascal
Okay -- so again, the solution is to either deal one of the big 3 or to acquire overpaid role players and wait for their contracts to expire. Is either of those possibilities actually better than the tack the Spurs have taken. The current operations got the Spurs a title in 2007 and had them relatively close to another in 2008 -- to say nothing of having been quite close in 2006 after winning in 2005 with that recipe.Quote:
Originally Posted by rascal
And at some point, not too many years from now, this is all going to end and the Spurs will have to start over. At least at that point, you can look forward to them having the opportunity to make all sorts of trades and things like that -- they should have plenty of cap room and all kinds of tradeable assets when the downtime comes.Quote:
Originally Posted by rascal
what the hell is "fuking"?
I read everything and all I can contribute is... Megan Fox is hot!
No single way of analyzing performance is foolproof or perfect, but one strength of stats is that it takes the blatant bias, homerism, and subjectivity of fans out of the equation more than most approaches. You may not like Oberto personally, you may wish he was more of a leaper, you may wish he threw down monster dunks... but to say he is a terrible rebounder is just not true. He's a pretty good rebounder. Is he Bill Russell, Moses Malone, David Robinson? No. But he is a pretty good rebounder.Quote:
Originally Posted by AusSpursFan
The Spurs had a great plan in place: bring in Splitter and Mahinmi. Splitter was lost through no fault of the FO, and now it's time to adjust. They re-signed Thomas, and signed Tolliver. We'll see how that works. The 90s Bulls were great with essentially 3 journeymen playing center. The Spurs will try two journeyman and a young all first team d-leaguer.
But you're wrong about the Spurs getting older. They've gotten younger. Their plan was a good one: work it out so that the contracts of 4 older players all run out in the same year-- Horry, Barry, Finley, and Thomas. Two of those guys are now gone and the other two signed for less money than they made last year. Mahinmi, Mason, Hill, and Tolliver are all younger, and last year's addition, Udoka, is 7 years younger than his mentor, Bruce Bowen.
Here's my perspective: If you want to say I'm frustrated that no big named free agents came to San Antonio, then I'm with you 100%. But if you're saying the FO sits around doing nothing and they suck, that's where I disagree. They're not perfect-- I disagree with the Scola trade, with letting Gist leave for Italy, and think they should've gotten more for Beno. But overall, I think their record is very good. They still have three true stars in their primes, a bunch of reasonably priced role players who understand the system, and a lot of payroll dollars available to place another star alongside Duncan in the very near future.
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Originally Posted by AC#21_TD ERA
2002, just to jog your memory. Spurs have had three in the interim.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers Y Que!
That’s in the past; just becuase its worked extremely well in past that doesnt mean its always going to be sucessful. The competition gets better every year, the game changes as well, the Spurs big 3 are alot older now aswell. So you can’t always continue to stay with the same philosophy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral
We haven’t surrounded the big 3 with a solid supporting cast like we did in the past, in fact we just suplied them with garbage. Like what I said if we got another proven go to scorer or Artest we would of been fine, but signing Roger who? Mason and Finishedley and expecting them to be the solution on the wings you got to be kidding yourself. We wont be able to throw the ball into the ocean. THE SPURS FRONT OFFICE ARE A BUNCH OF FUCKING MORONS!
Hurray.
You finally got over your fear of the word 'fuck'. :lol
Hahahah I love this pic:Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers Y Que!
http://theassociation.blogs.com/the_...1e42eeaget.jpg
Ah, I see Louis morphing into a Lakers troll this season.
Turkoglu is not the type of player I am talking about. He was just another role player type of acquisition. Thats the best you can come up with in 10 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
It worked for 4 championships. Including one before last season, and reaching the west finals last season. It's not like we haven't won or done well in recent years. Go ask Houston and Dallas what the last two years have been like.Quote:
Originally Posted by AC#21_TD ERA
Who do we trade for Artest? Why would any team trade a scorer go to guy to the Spurs? What does the Spurs have that it's so valuable, that any team will be willing to part with one of their top players? I mean, if you include any of the big 3 from our team, then you'll end up where you started anyways, with another big 3, same old surrounding cast, with the exception that the new guy has to learn an entirely new system.Quote:
Originally Posted by AC#21_TD ERA
So the Spurs should be able to take nothing and turn it into a star level player?Quote:
Originally Posted by rascal
Seriously, without having overpaid role players on the roster or having ample cap space to deal out little more than picks and small contracts for bad players, the sorts of deals that you imagine aren't possible. I'd be curious for you to make a list of the sorts of deals that other teams have made that you think the Spurs could have or should have made.
Rasheed Wallace was sent from Atlanta to Det
It cost Det. L Hunter, C Atkins and a first round pick that was sent to Boston
Boston sent Sura Mills Rebraca and a 1'st to Atlanta
Thats a steal of a trade for the Pistons and helped them win a title. It did not take any high priced players, just a package of players and a draft pick.
A good agressive front office recognizes steals when they are available and works out a way to get it done.
This is the type of deal I am talking about. That the spurs never do because they are too conservative in taking any type of risk. R Wallace is better than any other front court player the spurs have brought in.
The Pistons and Boston each have one championship in the last ten years, so to say their front offices are outworking or out-thinking the FO of the Spurs doesn't ring true. Those two teams combined haven't matched the success of the Spurs in recent history. Plus, Boston was absolutely terrible for many years to the point where many Celtic fans were calling for Ainge to be fired. Would you prefer that approach? Sure, if you have lottery picks 3 or 4 years in a row there's a good chance that you'll assemble some young talent to develop or trade. Detroit is in roughly the same situation as San Antonio-- they have established veteran players who start and their draft position each year is in the 20s-- but their success the last two, five, or ten years cannot compare to the success of the Spurs.Quote:
Originally Posted by rascal
To your first point, NO SHIT. I never said that it hasn't been sucessful. All i said you cant keep on supporting your big 3 with average role players and expecting it to be a sucess by taking no risks what so ever. In the past we had a decent supporting cast thats why it worked. But now if you have an average supporting cast you have no chance in hell. That's what we got.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Seriously look at it: Mason,Finley,Udoka,Oberto,Mahinimi,Hill,Bonner,Tol liver, JV, Which one of those players will fix our offensive droughts? If you can name one then you have the cure for cancer.
With the Ron Artest trade did you see who Houston gave up for Him? Ill tell ya garbage, we could of came up with something if we really wanted him. We could of thrown at them. JV, Oberto, Udoka etc , and cash. I think you get it by now. The Spurs never make a deal that is a steal.
The supporting cast we have around the big 3 now lets face it, is good enough to get us to the first 2 rounds. If we can't improve our roster during the season then the time has come to trade Manu.
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Originally Posted by AC#21_TD ERA
http://www.wallpaperbase.com/wallpap..._rangers_9.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by anakha
:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao
What, still haven't gotten over JR smith and Ricky Davis crushing your dreams and hopes?Quote:
Originally Posted by AC#21_TD ERA
That 'average' supporting cast won a championship a year ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by AC#21_TD ERA
It went all the way to the western conference finals months ago.
Reality doesn't agree with you.
That said, I believe the FO is always looking to get better, and they've tried. They went after Magette. They went after Pargo. The players decided to go somewhere else. Nothing you can do about that.
You tell me which go to guy scorer we can get by trading any of those pieces? It's easy to say 'Let's get a go to guy'. But you need to be able to offer something the other team wants badly enough for them to make the trade. Again, you tell me: Who should the Spurs be pursuing that they didn't, that we could potentially get by trading those guys you mention above?Quote:
Originally Posted by AC#21_TD ERA
You think if the Spurs could make a deal that is a steal they wouldn't do it?Quote:
Originally Posted by AC#21_TD ERA
It's not like Gasol was shopped around. Now, let say we do throw JV, Oberto and Udoka for Artest.
Our starting lineup: TP,Artest,Bowen,TD,Thomas...
Pros: Better defense through Artest.
Cons: Artest is a chucker. Does not know the system.
Now let's look at the second unit: Hill (rookie), Ginobili, Tolliver(rookie), Bonner, Mahinmi (rookie).
Pros: ????
Cons: If you don't see them, you must be blind.
So you just destroyed the surrounding cast around the big 3 in one trade. Exactly the opposite you were clamoring for. Unless you expect TP, TD and Bowen to play 48 minutes every game, I don't see how that deal would make us any better. I'll take JV over Hill, Udoka over Tolliver and Oberto over Bonner/Mahinmi every day of the week.
Last I checked it was good enough to take us to the western conference finals. And I would argue we were an injury away from having a competitive series against the Lakers.Quote:
Originally Posted by AC#21_TD ERA
So be a good boy, take your Xanax, and enjoy the first half of the season. If something needs to be tweaked, we can always do something mid-season.