Spot Number 5 - Top 50 Spurs

SpursTalk's Top 50 Spurs
1. Tim Duncan
2. David Robinson
3. George Gervin
4. Gregg Popovich

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To pass the time until the start of preseason, let's see how SpursTalk.com ranks the Top 50 Spurs. Those eligible for the list include all players, coaches and owners. I don't want to define "top" too narrowly, but I think the best way to do it would be to think of the list as a list of the 50 most influential people who have helped make the Spurs one of the most successful franchises in the history of sport.

For more information on what we are doing, check out this thread.

In this thread, we will vote for spot number five. Please place your vote. If you will, also explain in this thread why you voted how you did.

Thanks.



P.S.

Poll options listed in alphabetical order. If you want to vote for someone not on the list, post in the thread and I'll add the person.

Voting will end 2AM CST Thursday morning. Please vote only once.

Founder/creator of the San Antonio Spurs, Angelo Drossos. Don't know much about him other than he gave up ownership in 1988 and died in 1997 from some form of palsy.

You have to tip your hat to this guy, he is the one that turned over the money even when he was hardly making any to keep this franchise alive and going. Without him there is no Gervin, Robinson, and Duncan making history.

Ginobili......... Then after him Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_.

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Originally Posted by Sean Cagney

Ginobili......... Then after him Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_.

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LMAO this cracks me up everytime.

Elliott. :)

I missed something. What's funny about that ^ ?

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Originally Posted by Brutalis

I missed something. What's funny about that ^ ?

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Happens when someone spells Elliott's name with only one t.

Silas doesn't stand a chance until after 10 probably. :(

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Originally Posted by Brutalis

Founder/creator of the San Antonio Spurs, Angelo Drossos. Don't know much about him other than he gave up ownership in 1988 and died in 1997 from some form of palsy.

You have to tip your hat to this guy, he is the one that turned over the money even when he was hardly making any to keep this franchise alive and going. Without him there is no Gervin, Robinson, and Duncan making history.

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He has my vote based on that.

F all of you people voting for Ginobili with AJ still on the board. Post-2005 Spurs fan rears his ugly head once again.

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Originally Posted by J.T.

F all of you people voting for Ginobili with AJ still on the board. Post-2005 Spurs fan rears his ugly head once again.

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LOL @ AJ going higher than Manu. Fuck that.

Drossos has to take this spot...

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

LOL @ AJ going higher than Manu. Fuck that.

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+1

This is one I don't have to sleep on. Drossos could have easily gone ahead of Pop and I think this is a more than fair spot for him. Here are some of his accomplishments:

1. Original owner of the Spurs
2. Brought Spurs to San Antonio
3. Masterminded trade for George Gervin
4. Fought for Gervin's rights when the ABA tried to rescind the trade
5. Refused to be bought out and insisted the Spurs enter the NBA
6. Kept the Spurs afloat financially despite limited revenues
7. Helped usher in the salary cap era to keep the Spurs competitive
8. Convinced the NBA to add the three-point line
9. Instrumental in getting David Robinson to sign with the Spurs
10. Didn't sell the team until he got Robinson's signature

Drossos owned the team from 1973 to 1988. Those 15 years he willed the Spurs into continued existence. A case could be made for him as number one on this list. Number five is definitely warranted.

If Manu wins this I'm not voting on a future poll. Ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Brutalis

If Manu wins this I'm not voting on a future poll. Ridiculous.

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yeah Manu should prolly be 6th...

but not 5th

Manu!!!

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Originally Posted by Sense

yeah Manu should prolly be 6th...

but not 5th

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Well looking at who voted it appears to be a couple trolls who voted Manu.

This one looks like it may go down to the wire. Ginobili is the most popular current Spur and 95% of Spurs fans couldn't pick Drossos out of a photo lineup, so it's an interesting battle.

BTW, who should be added to the poll next (I try to list ten at a time)? I'm thinking either Alvin Robertson, Mike Mitchell, Bob Bass or Bruce Bowen. Leaning toward Bowen but it's close . . .

the credit to whom it belongs.. Drossos :tu

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Originally Posted by timvp

This one looks like it may go down to the wire. Ginobili is the most popular current Spur and 95% of Spurs fans couldn't pick Drossos out of a photo lineup, so it's an interesting battle.

BTW, who should be added to the poll next (I try to list ten at a time)? I'm thinking either Alvin Robertson, Mike Mitchell, Bob Bass or Bruce Bowen. Leaning toward Bowen but it's close . . .

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Alvin or Bruce in my books.

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Originally Posted by Brutalis

If Manu wins this I'm not voting on a future poll. Ridiculous.

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Zero way Manu, as a Spur, should be ahead of Parker. Just because you like him more doesn't make him better.

*cut 'n' paste from Number 4 thread*

Timvp - ask, and ye shall recieve...

Manu Ginobili injected an element of random, swash-buckling excitement into Spurs basketball that I have never seen before*. With his daredevil style he has become the best European slasher the NBA has seen, and added to that he has will to win on the level of the greats (dare I say Jordanesque?). He was a large part of the transformation from the dour defensive juggernaut that won in 2003 to the multi-flavoured basketball machine of 2005, and the steam-roller of 2007. Moreover, Manu has added to his game over time by first improving his D (less gambling), and then his 3pt shooting and midrange game (although the latter is still a little streaky...). That he is flawed and human, as revealed by the foul heard around the world in 2006, only makes him greater because, unlike Dirk and countless others, he bounced back from that bitter play to win again.

I would have said Pop for all he has done since finally learning to coach in 2003 (kidding - he has always managed egos well, and run his team like a family, which I appreciate), but for me the great players come first - without them there is no game, and no need for a coach. And Manu is a truly unique talent, a rare combination of flare, guts and jedi, and a champion at all levels who plays only to win.

Manu for 5.

*Note: I am too young to judge the Gervin era, which also rules out Silas and Drossos. As a Spurs fan from 1989, I don't claim to understand the intimate early history of the Spurs but utterly respect those who do, and it is great to read about each of your opinions on guys like Drossos. As for Holt and McComb, once again, it's all about the players for me on this kind of list.

Manu.

drossos

Angelo, RIP.

Drossos, by virtue of him losing the coin toss to Pop yesterday.

Manu!

Manu

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Originally Posted by CaptMike

Zero way Manu, as a Spur, should be ahead of Parker. Just because you like him more doesn't make him better.

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:wtf

Where did I say anything about Manu being ahead of Parker? On top of that, where did I say Manu was better than Parker?

timvp has covered most of this succinctly, but this was my argument for Drossos as #4 -- it would seem to apply equally to #5; and I agree with the notion that if the historical context means anything (with many Spurs fans, I don't think it does) Drossos shouldn't drop further than this.

To me, without Angelo Drossos, there is no Spurs.

It might have been easy, in 1976, for Drossos to take the money and run. He could have simply sold out and allowed a different ABA team to be part of the merger -- the owners of the Spirits of St. Louis did exactly that. But he didn't and ended up giving San Antonio the gift that keeps on giving. Beyond that, Drossos became a steward to the needs of small market teams and, through his efforts, ensured that a team could stay in San Antonio and be viable (at least on the court) because of rules that level the playing field. In the years that have followed, the franchise that he created has been able to develop a culture of winning, manifested by its 4 championships, its 10 appearances in the conference finals, and its 15 division crowns and 28 playoff appearances. More than that, even, the consistency of the operation that Drossos made happen is evidenced by the fact that his team has the 2nd best aggregate winning percentage in NBA history and the 2nd most playoff wins of all franchises since the merger. All of that from a team that operates in one of the smallest markets in pro sports, in an era in which the disparity between big markets and small is greater than ever.

To be sure, the Spurs have been fortunate in a number of ways that have made all of the above happen. But none of it would have been possible without Drossos and other than the 3 superstars who've toiled for the franchise and have made the Spurs viable on the court, I can't imagine that anyone has truly been more important to the Spurs' history than Angelo Drossos.

No Drossos, no Spurs.

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

timvp has covered most of this succinctly, but this was my argument for Drossos as #4 -- it would seem to apply equally to #5; and I agree with the notion that if the historical context means anything (with many Spurs fans, I don't think it does) Drossos shouldn't drop further than this.

To me, without Angelo Drossos, there is no Spurs.

It might have been easy, in 1976, for Drossos to take the money and run. He could have simply sold out and allowed a different ABA team to be part of the merger -- the owners of the Spirits of St. Louis did exactly that. But he didn't and ended up giving San Antonio the gift that keeps on giving. Beyond that, Drossos became a steward to the needs of small market teams and, through his efforts, ensured that a team could stay in San Antonio and be viable (at least on the court) because of rules that level the playing field. In the years that have followed, the franchise that he created has been able to develop a culture of winning, manifested by its 4 championships, its 10 appearances in the conference finals, and its 15 division crowns and 28 playoff appearances. More than that, even, the consistency of the operation that Drossos made happen is evidenced by the fact that his team has the 2nd best aggregate winning percentage in NBA history and the 2nd most playoff wins of all franchises since the merger. All of that from a team that operates in one of the smallest markets in pro sports, in an era in which the disparity between big markets and small is greater than ever.

To be sure, the Spurs have been fortunate in a number of ways that have made all of the above happen. But none of it would have been possible without Drossos and other than the 3 superstars who've toiled for the franchise and have made the Spurs viable on the court, I can't imagine that anyone has truly been more important to the Spurs' history than Angelo Drossos.

No Drossos, no Spurs.

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Valid argument, which should be used to put Drossos over any player that came after him. If you're willing to use that case to put him over any player at this point, you should have voted him over even Tim, David, and Ice.

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Originally Posted by timvp

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BTW, who should be added to the poll next (I try to list ten at a time)? I'm thinking either Alvin Robertson, Mike Mitchell, Bob Bass or Bruce Bowen. Leaning toward Bowen but it's close . . .

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Robertson
with Gilmore and Moe soon.

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Originally Posted by I Love Me Some Me

Valid argument, which should be used to put Drossos over any player that came after him. If you're willing to use that case to put him over any player at this point, you should have voted him over even Tim, David, and Ice.

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Not at all true. The argument is that Drossos makes this all possible and that he should be viewed as a person of major significance in the history of the San Antonio Spurs. But what he made possible wouldn't make any difference if it hadn't been for the 3 superstars who've been the face of this organization and who've been mostly responsible for the long tradition of winning in San Antonio. I don't think there would be Spurs without Drossos, but I'm also quite sure that the franchise wouldn't have survived and thrived without those 3 all-timers making the difference. I can use that logic quite easily to put Duncan, Robinson, and Gervin ahead of Drossos, and to put all other players behind Drossos in terms of their significance to Spurs history.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timvp

BTW, who should be added to the poll next (I try to list ten at a time)? I'm thinking either Alvin Robertson, Mike Mitchell, Bob Bass or Bruce Bowen. Leaning toward Bowen but it's close . . .

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I think I'd go with Bowen, if only because he's:

(a) done it here for a long time (for all that Alvin did, he only spent 5 seasons with the Spurs - Bowen is 7 years in);

(b) piled up more league-wide accolades than Mitchell put together while in the silver & black; and

(c) made some subtle, intangible contributions by his contractual sacrifices.

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Originally Posted by J.T.

F all of you people voting for Ginobili with AJ still on the board. Post-2005 Spurs fan rears his ugly head once again.

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I have never felt the AJ love that some people feel. His spot in the top 50 should be right next to Mario Elie since they both made the similar contributions to that first championship team.

If it were totally my vote he'd be sitting in the green room for awhile.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timvp

This one looks like it may go down to the wire. Ginobili is the most popular current Spur and 95% of Spurs fans couldn't pick Drossos out of a photo lineup, so it's an interesting battle.

BTW, who should be added to the poll next (I try to list ten at a time)? I'm thinking either Alvin Robertson, Mike Mitchell, Bob Bass or Bruce Bowen. Leaning toward Bowen but it's close . . .

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You might consider expanding it to more than ten soon (if possible) because people's opinions really start to vary after the top few spots.

Take Manu off the list for next round. I just want to test my theory that the internet can actually catch on fire.

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Originally Posted by spurs_fan_in_exile

Take Manu off the list for next round. I just want to test my theory that the internet can actually catch on fire.

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:lmao

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Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

You might consider expanding it to more than ten soon (if possible) because people's opinions really start to vary after the top few spots.

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Agreed. I wondered if there wasn't just a way to put all of the remaining nominees in the poll every day and let the voters decide from the entire slate.

I voted for Angelo Drossos because of all the good things you guys have posted about him in the last few polls.

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Originally Posted by angel_luv

I voted for Angelo Drossos because of all the good things you guys have posted about him in the last few polls.

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You're not alone. I must admit, I voted Drossos because FromWayDownTown convinced me. I trust the man knows his shit like in every other case.

For whatever it's worth, the owners of ABA franchises who weren't included in the merger did pretty well financially -- particularly given the era in which those deals went down:

There were 2 ABA teams that didn't join the NBA: the Kentucky Colonels and the Spirits of St. Louis (somehow, the Flint Tropics and their eclectic owner aren't found anywhere in the history books). The owner of the Colonels took a $3.3 million buyout. It might not sound like much, but that money made a significant dent in the sum he later paid to buy the Celtics. The NBA offered a similar deal to the St. Louis owners, who instead negotiated a deal to receive 1/7 of the TV revenues paid to the merged teams in perpetuity. To this day, they get something like $15 million per year.

It probably proved to be a greater financial deal for Drossos and his investors to have the team join the NBA, but I think there's pretty good evidence that the opportunity existed to take a quick buck -- it would have marked a substantial return on the original investment -- and leave San Antonio without a team. The decision to seek even bigger returns (while running bigger risks) made this franchise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timvp

This one looks like it may go down to the wire. Ginobili is the most popular current Spur and 95% of Spurs fans couldn't pick Drossos out of a photo lineup, so it's an interesting battle.

BTW, who should be added to the poll next (I try to list ten at a time)? I'm thinking either Alvin Robertson, Mike Mitchell, Bob Bass or Bruce Bowen. Leaning toward Bowen but it's close . . .

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Definitely add Bowen.

Finally.

It would be a crime for Angelo not to be in the top 5.

I think this is a good spot to add that not only is this a really great offseason activity for this forum, but it also will probably turn out to be a great educating experience. I'm sure a lot of fans here didn't know a whole lot, if anything, about Angelo Drossos before this. And it will still be interesting to see where the Hall of Famers and Retired Jerseys will end up.

And for the record, David should be first on this list.

Peter Holt gets two votes??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Somewhere, MB is pulling out his hairs one by one . . .

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Originally Posted by remingtonbo2001

Finally.

It would be a crime for Angelo not to be in the top 5.

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+1

this is not right. It should be
1. Duncan
2. Pop
3. Robinson
4. Gervin
5. Manu

After reading some post on this thread I'll vote for Drossos.

I don't know much about him but I trust the old fans who says he's so important

What's interesting in today's poll is seeing the names of the posters who voted for Drossos vs. Manu. Most longtime fans, or those with a history in San Antonio seem to have voted for Angelo.

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Originally Posted by Ruff

Note: I am too young to judge the Gervin era, which also rules out Silas and Drossos. As a Spurs fan from 1989, I don't claim to understand the intimate early history of the Spurs but utterly respect those who do, and it is great to read about each of your opinions on guys like Drossos. As for Holt and McComb, once again, it's all about the players for me on this kind of list.

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It's funny when people make those statements. Considering this list isn't supposed to be all about the players (as is clearly stated in the original post of each thread).

where is larry brown

Looks like the Church of Manu is getting out in a last-minute grassroots rally like Bush 04. :vomit:

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Looks like the Church of Manu is getting out in a last-minute grassroots rally like Bush 04. :vomit:

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:lol

I was about to say that Manu is making up a lot of ground pretty quickly heading into the final hours.

Man the next round is going to be epic. Should we let that one go two days?

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Originally Posted by Spurminator

Man the next round is going to be epic. Should we let that one go two days?

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Hmmmm ... I like this idea.

If it's close tomorrow morning, I'll make it a two-day event. I have a feeling Manu is going to run away with it, though.

But yeah, if it's close, this could be the most interesting spot of the whole set.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

It's funny when people make those statements. Considering this list isn't supposed to be all about the players (as is clearly stated in the original post of each thread).

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Okay then, I think Manu is more valuable than Holt and McComb, and am in no position personally to judge him against Drossos, although I trust all that has been said.

Or... fuck it, I just love Manu more than I could love any owner! :lmao

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Originally Posted by timvp

Hmmmm ... I like this idea.

If it's close tomorrow morning, I'll make it a two-day event. I have a feeling Manu is going to run away with it, though.

But yeah, if it's close, this could be the most interesting spot of the whole set.

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Manu's still going to have the Adv. with all the Argies that may stop by here for the game on Friday