Spot Number 5 - Top 50 Spurs

Drossos, by virtue of him losing the coin toss to Pop yesterday.

Manu!

Manu

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Originally Posted by CaptMike

Zero way Manu, as a Spur, should be ahead of Parker. Just because you like him more doesn't make him better.

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:wtf

Where did I say anything about Manu being ahead of Parker? On top of that, where did I say Manu was better than Parker?

timvp has covered most of this succinctly, but this was my argument for Drossos as #4 -- it would seem to apply equally to #5; and I agree with the notion that if the historical context means anything (with many Spurs fans, I don't think it does) Drossos shouldn't drop further than this.

To me, without Angelo Drossos, there is no Spurs.

It might have been easy, in 1976, for Drossos to take the money and run. He could have simply sold out and allowed a different ABA team to be part of the merger -- the owners of the Spirits of St. Louis did exactly that. But he didn't and ended up giving San Antonio the gift that keeps on giving. Beyond that, Drossos became a steward to the needs of small market teams and, through his efforts, ensured that a team could stay in San Antonio and be viable (at least on the court) because of rules that level the playing field. In the years that have followed, the franchise that he created has been able to develop a culture of winning, manifested by its 4 championships, its 10 appearances in the conference finals, and its 15 division crowns and 28 playoff appearances. More than that, even, the consistency of the operation that Drossos made happen is evidenced by the fact that his team has the 2nd best aggregate winning percentage in NBA history and the 2nd most playoff wins of all franchises since the merger. All of that from a team that operates in one of the smallest markets in pro sports, in an era in which the disparity between big markets and small is greater than ever.

To be sure, the Spurs have been fortunate in a number of ways that have made all of the above happen. But none of it would have been possible without Drossos and other than the 3 superstars who've toiled for the franchise and have made the Spurs viable on the court, I can't imagine that anyone has truly been more important to the Spurs' history than Angelo Drossos.

No Drossos, no Spurs.

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

timvp has covered most of this succinctly, but this was my argument for Drossos as #4 -- it would seem to apply equally to #5; and I agree with the notion that if the historical context means anything (with many Spurs fans, I don't think it does) Drossos shouldn't drop further than this.

To me, without Angelo Drossos, there is no Spurs.

It might have been easy, in 1976, for Drossos to take the money and run. He could have simply sold out and allowed a different ABA team to be part of the merger -- the owners of the Spirits of St. Louis did exactly that. But he didn't and ended up giving San Antonio the gift that keeps on giving. Beyond that, Drossos became a steward to the needs of small market teams and, through his efforts, ensured that a team could stay in San Antonio and be viable (at least on the court) because of rules that level the playing field. In the years that have followed, the franchise that he created has been able to develop a culture of winning, manifested by its 4 championships, its 10 appearances in the conference finals, and its 15 division crowns and 28 playoff appearances. More than that, even, the consistency of the operation that Drossos made happen is evidenced by the fact that his team has the 2nd best aggregate winning percentage in NBA history and the 2nd most playoff wins of all franchises since the merger. All of that from a team that operates in one of the smallest markets in pro sports, in an era in which the disparity between big markets and small is greater than ever.

To be sure, the Spurs have been fortunate in a number of ways that have made all of the above happen. But none of it would have been possible without Drossos and other than the 3 superstars who've toiled for the franchise and have made the Spurs viable on the court, I can't imagine that anyone has truly been more important to the Spurs' history than Angelo Drossos.

No Drossos, no Spurs.

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Valid argument, which should be used to put Drossos over any player that came after him. If you're willing to use that case to put him over any player at this point, you should have voted him over even Tim, David, and Ice.

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Originally Posted by timvp

...

BTW, who should be added to the poll next (I try to list ten at a time)? I'm thinking either Alvin Robertson, Mike Mitchell, Bob Bass or Bruce Bowen. Leaning toward Bowen but it's close . . .

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Robertson
with Gilmore and Moe soon.

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Originally Posted by I Love Me Some Me

Valid argument, which should be used to put Drossos over any player that came after him. If you're willing to use that case to put him over any player at this point, you should have voted him over even Tim, David, and Ice.

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Not at all true. The argument is that Drossos makes this all possible and that he should be viewed as a person of major significance in the history of the San Antonio Spurs. But what he made possible wouldn't make any difference if it hadn't been for the 3 superstars who've been the face of this organization and who've been mostly responsible for the long tradition of winning in San Antonio. I don't think there would be Spurs without Drossos, but I'm also quite sure that the franchise wouldn't have survived and thrived without those 3 all-timers making the difference. I can use that logic quite easily to put Duncan, Robinson, and Gervin ahead of Drossos, and to put all other players behind Drossos in terms of their significance to Spurs history.

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Originally Posted by timvp

BTW, who should be added to the poll next (I try to list ten at a time)? I'm thinking either Alvin Robertson, Mike Mitchell, Bob Bass or Bruce Bowen. Leaning toward Bowen but it's close . . .

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I think I'd go with Bowen, if only because he's:

(a) done it here for a long time (for all that Alvin did, he only spent 5 seasons with the Spurs - Bowen is 7 years in);

(b) piled up more league-wide accolades than Mitchell put together while in the silver & black; and

(c) made some subtle, intangible contributions by his contractual sacrifices.

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Originally Posted by J.T.

F all of you people voting for Ginobili with AJ still on the board. Post-2005 Spurs fan rears his ugly head once again.

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I have never felt the AJ love that some people feel. His spot in the top 50 should be right next to Mario Elie since they both made the similar contributions to that first championship team.

If it were totally my vote he'd be sitting in the green room for awhile.

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Originally Posted by timvp

This one looks like it may go down to the wire. Ginobili is the most popular current Spur and 95% of Spurs fans couldn't pick Drossos out of a photo lineup, so it's an interesting battle.

BTW, who should be added to the poll next (I try to list ten at a time)? I'm thinking either Alvin Robertson, Mike Mitchell, Bob Bass or Bruce Bowen. Leaning toward Bowen but it's close . . .

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You might consider expanding it to more than ten soon (if possible) because people's opinions really start to vary after the top few spots.

Take Manu off the list for next round. I just want to test my theory that the internet can actually catch on fire.

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Originally Posted by spurs_fan_in_exile

Take Manu off the list for next round. I just want to test my theory that the internet can actually catch on fire.

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:lmao

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Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

You might consider expanding it to more than ten soon (if possible) because people's opinions really start to vary after the top few spots.

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Agreed. I wondered if there wasn't just a way to put all of the remaining nominees in the poll every day and let the voters decide from the entire slate.

I voted for Angelo Drossos because of all the good things you guys have posted about him in the last few polls.

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Originally Posted by angel_luv

I voted for Angelo Drossos because of all the good things you guys have posted about him in the last few polls.

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You're not alone. I must admit, I voted Drossos because FromWayDownTown convinced me. I trust the man knows his shit like in every other case.

For whatever it's worth, the owners of ABA franchises who weren't included in the merger did pretty well financially -- particularly given the era in which those deals went down:

There were 2 ABA teams that didn't join the NBA: the Kentucky Colonels and the Spirits of St. Louis (somehow, the Flint Tropics and their eclectic owner aren't found anywhere in the history books). The owner of the Colonels took a $3.3 million buyout. It might not sound like much, but that money made a significant dent in the sum he later paid to buy the Celtics. The NBA offered a similar deal to the St. Louis owners, who instead negotiated a deal to receive 1/7 of the TV revenues paid to the merged teams in perpetuity. To this day, they get something like $15 million per year.

It probably proved to be a greater financial deal for Drossos and his investors to have the team join the NBA, but I think there's pretty good evidence that the opportunity existed to take a quick buck -- it would have marked a substantial return on the original investment -- and leave San Antonio without a team. The decision to seek even bigger returns (while running bigger risks) made this franchise.

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Originally Posted by timvp

This one looks like it may go down to the wire. Ginobili is the most popular current Spur and 95% of Spurs fans couldn't pick Drossos out of a photo lineup, so it's an interesting battle.

BTW, who should be added to the poll next (I try to list ten at a time)? I'm thinking either Alvin Robertson, Mike Mitchell, Bob Bass or Bruce Bowen. Leaning toward Bowen but it's close . . .

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Definitely add Bowen.

Finally.

It would be a crime for Angelo not to be in the top 5.

I think this is a good spot to add that not only is this a really great offseason activity for this forum, but it also will probably turn out to be a great educating experience. I'm sure a lot of fans here didn't know a whole lot, if anything, about Angelo Drossos before this. And it will still be interesting to see where the Hall of Famers and Retired Jerseys will end up.

And for the record, David should be first on this list.

Peter Holt gets two votes??????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Somewhere, MB is pulling out his hairs one by one . . .

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Originally Posted by remingtonbo2001

Finally.

It would be a crime for Angelo not to be in the top 5.

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+1

this is not right. It should be
1. Duncan
2. Pop
3. Robinson
4. Gervin
5. Manu

After reading some post on this thread I'll vote for Drossos.

I don't know much about him but I trust the old fans who says he's so important