Its On - USA v Argentina - AKA Whottttttttttt does Argentina

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer...gentina-080821

Team USA looking forward to renewing rivalry with Argentina
By Chris Sheridan

BEIJING -- Only one team in the world has defeated the United States twice since NBA players started representing America.

It was the first team to do it, back in 2002, and it was the one that knocked Team USA out of gold-medal contention in Athens four years ago.

And if Team USA finds itself playing for bronze instead of gold on Sunday, it'll be because of the South American nation that has played the Americans the toughest when the stakes have been the highest:

Argentina.

The team that has what Team USA wants. The team whose fans' sing-songy chants the U.S. federation has grown sick and tired of hearing.

Tip-off is on Friday at 10:15 a.m. ET, with the winner getting a chance two days later to earn the right to call itself either Numero Uno or No. 1. Team USA is a 19½-point favorite.

"We've got a great history with them, so it's going to be a great battle," Dwyane Wade said. "This is a team that has been playing better as the games have progressed, and they are playing good. It's going to be a great test for us, and I wouldn't want it any other way."

Argentina had a harder time getting out of the quarterfinals than the Americans did, its fate hanging in the balance as a 3-point shot by Vassilis Spanoulis of Greece arched through the air in the final seconds on Wednesday night, hitting the rim and failing to go in. The Argentineans embraced each other, trudged exhaustedly to their locker room, then got started on the task of trying to find a way to defeat the best-looking team the United States has put on a basketball court this decade.

"We've got to play the perfect game, and they've got to miss more than usual," Luis Scola said. "But it's only one game, that's all it takes -- 40 minutes. We going to play the best way we can, and try to do what looks impossible right now."

The teams have played eight times since 1999, back when a then-unheard-of teenager named Andres Nocioni posterized Tim Duncan and Kevin Garnett during a preliminary round game at the Tournament of the Americas inside a hot, humid gymnasium in San Juan, Puerto Rico -- a dunk that served notice there was a new kid on the Pan American block.

Argentina did not qualify for the 2000 Olympics in Sydney, but the 2002 team came to Indianapolis for the world championship with another new face, Manu Ginobili, bursting onto the scene, and helping to hand the Americans their first loss in an international competition since professionals were first allowed to compete 10 years earlier.

Revenge was on the Americans' mind a year later when Team USA faced Argentina again at the Tournament of the Americas inside that same sweltering gym in Puerto Rico, and the teams played a tight one in the opening round -- Team USA winning by eight -- before the Americans steamrolled Argentina by 33 in the gold-medal match a week later.

But then came the semifinals of the 2004 Olympics, and the Americans -- after defeating an undefeated Spain team in the quarterfinals behind a U.S. Olympic-record 31 points from Stephon Marbury -- were thoroughly outexecuted and outfinessed in an 89-81 loss that relegated them to the bronze-medal game.

"Both were pretty big, the first one was the first one overall, and that's always big," Scola said. "Nobody had beaten them before, and we did it first. It was important for us because if we lost that game we had to play Serbia in the quarterfinal, and that would have been pretty tough, but our victory put us against Brazil and it made our way into the final much easier.

"The second one gave us a silver medal, at least, and it was the second time, which was harder."

Team USA is 3-0 against Argentina since then, winning the bronze-medal game at the 2006 world championship in Japan, then defeating it twice in the 2007 Tournament of the Americas in Las Vegas when many of Argentina's best players decided to sit out.

But two of those key missing players -- Nocioni and Ginobili -- are back this summer, and Argentina has been performing a little better each night as the Olympic tournament has progressed.

"They will attack us with their system, and they believe they can beat us," said chief U.S. scout Tony Ronzone, who stayed up with the American coaching staff until 4 a.m. on Thursday reviewing game tapes and tinkering with the game plan for the renewal of the rivalry.

The winner will face Spain or Lithuania in the gold-medal game at 2:30 a.m. ET on Sunday -- the final event before the Olympic Closing Ceremony.

"They've definitely found the way to play the FIBA game, and they're playing way better," Scola told ESPN.com. "They have players that are superstars, but they have a commitment, they want to win and they prepare, and they know what they're doing.

"They've been playing great, I've been watching them. They beat Spain by 40 points [actually 37], and that's not easy to do -- I'm telling you that right now," Scola said.

Team USA is averaging a tournament-high 105.2 points per game, while Argentina has had the second-best defense, allowing 73.2. The Americans lead all teams in rebounds, assists, steals and blocks, while Argentina has committed the fewest turnovers of any team still alive.

Argentina prefers to play man-to-man defense, and Scola said his team has not played one single second of zone during the tournament. That could change if Argentina adapts one of the few defensive styles that have been effective -- to use that word loosely -- against Team USA, but it's likely the teams will go at each other straight up as the game goes through its early stages.

With national team mainstays Walter Herrmann and Pepe Sanchez opting not to play this summer, Argentina's rotation has been reduced to six key players: Pablo Prigioni at point guard, Ginobili at shooting guard, Nocioni at small forward, Scola at power forward and Fabricio Oberto at center. Carlos Delfino is the sixth man, but the talent level drops off considerably after that. To make matters worse, Nocioni has been slowed by a knee injury.

Kobe Bryant gets the defensive assignment on Ginobili, and the Americans will attack the basket and try to get Argentina in foul trouble to make it go deep into its bench.

"I can't wait. I can't wait to get over that hump," Carmelo Anthony said. "These last two games, there's no reason to hold anything back. To be a champion you have to beat a champion. They still have the gold medal, no matter who won the world championship in '06. We have to go out there and take that from them."

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Originally Posted by T Park

Maybe.

:)

Your good people angel, and from what little I talked to Bo in May :lol, he is too. Good luck :)

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Thank you. :)

77-68 Argentina

How sweet


:rolleyes

There's NO WAY we can beat this US team. Not only because of the names but also because of the way they are playing.

This is not the old "we can beat all teams without scouting" US team. They understood they needed to spend some resources on studying FIBA rules, officiating and opponents strategy.

Argentina is not winning this game unless a catastrophe occurs.
US team is just TOO good. It's sort of Michael Phelpy or Usain Bolty. Just too good.

M

My forecast :

US : 91
AR : 80

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Originally Posted by Whisky Dog

WTF are you talking about? This has nothing to do with hating Manu or Argentina, this is a no brainer. Argentina has five or six top talented guys, and a couple of them (Delfino and Prigioni) are very inconsistent. USA has all world players at every position at every depth. They play like team, very unselfish. Nobody, not even world champion Spain, has stayed close to them in the 2nd half. Nobody needs to cheer up Argentina, they are the defending Olympic champions, but nobody has the depth necessary to go 40 minutes with the US team. It's an easy call.

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ditto

As the game gets closer, I just don't know how I'm supposed to root for Kobe over Ginobili. I can't stand Kobe and he's not even a product of American basketball. He should be playing for the Italian national team.

Maybe if Kobe gets arrested or something and misses the game, then it'll be possible for me to root for the US. Otherwise, I'll have to be a neutral observer.

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Originally Posted by polandprzem

Okay

All in all americans will be well motivated to crush Argies, and in this turnament I think it is the last chance to beat this USA squad.

In 2000 There were some problems with motivation. Americans were going to nightclubs and staying late having party.
Now it seems like they want to prove they are the best with no contest.

I just wonder for how long they will be willing to stay in that scheudle (NBA + FIBA)

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NBA fans pretty much don't even want the NBA players playing in the Olympics...and after the players win gold they will likely lose the desire to keep playing basketball year round.


You see, in my country, playing in the Olympics for basketball players isn't a doorway to being declared a National Hero and becoming wealthy from endorsements...in my country, playing on the Olympic basketball team is a thankless job, that pays no money, garners no respect, no additional fame, and doesn't accomplish anything other than putting a gold medal on your chest.

In my country, playing for the National Basketball team doesn't even get many Americans to root for you...proof in this thread.


Now can you honestly tell me the same is true for Manu and the guys on Team Argentina? Of if they were Poland?

No prestige, no respect, and damn sure no money...is that the way it works in Poland and Argentina with their Olympic Basketball players?


Tell me again who is doing this more for material(and otherwise) gain? Truely, all the NBA players are getting out of this is a gold medal...and literally nothing else. Not even good will from their countrymen...

:lol @L.J.

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Originally Posted by whottt

NBA fans pretty much don't even want the NBA players playing in the Olympics...and after the players win gold they will likely lose the desire to keep playing basketball year round.


You see, in my country, playing in the Olympics for basketball players isn't a doorway to being declared a National Hero and becoming wealthy from endorsements...in my country, playing on the Olympic basketball team is a thankless job, that pays no money, garners no respect, no additional fame, and doesn't accomplish anything other than putting a gold medal on your chest.

In my country, playing for the National Basketball team doesn't even get many Americans to root for you...proof in this thread.


Now can you honestly tell me the same is true for Manu and the guys on Team Argentina? Of if they were Poland?

No prestige, no respect, and damn sure no money...is that the way it works in Poland and Argentina with their Olympic Basketball players?


Tell me again who is doing this more for material(and otherwise) gain? Truely, all the NBA players are getting out of this is a gold medal...and literally nothing else. Not even good will from their countrymen...

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This is pretty damn true. The US players don't really get anything out of playing in the Olympics. The US media not-so-secretly hopes they lose so that everyone can talk about the failure for a couple weeks non-stop. Basically, the US players are in a lose lose situation. If they win, they were supposed to win. If they lose, they are a group of conceited ballas who disgraced Americans because they didn't have any heart.

A team like Argentina might not specifically be playing for money but that is the end result. If Argentina never busted onto the international scene, players like Nocioni, Herrmann and even Oberto would never have made it to the NBA and wouldn't be making the millions they are making. Argentina winning gold in 2004 probably earned the players in excess of $100 million.

But they could make more in Europe!

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Originally Posted by angel_luv

I voted for Bush in 2004, but I guess that only made up for my rooting for Argentina then, eh?:)

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Sounds like you make the wrong choice every time.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Sounds like you make the wrong choice every time.

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I won't vote for George Bush again. :)

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Originally Posted by timvp

As the game gets closer, I just don't know how I'm supposed to root for Kobe over Ginobili. I can't stand Kobe and he's not even a product of American basketball. He should be playing for the Italian national team.

Maybe if Kobe gets arrested or something and misses the game, then it'll be possible for me to root for the US. Otherwise, I'll have to be a neutral observer.

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And don't you ever step foot in a WalMart again. You do realize that Kobe/Boozer/Jkidd are just the handicap, right? Can you imagine if those 3 weren't on the team. They'd be winning games by 50 and I'm not even kidding.

The fact that they are dominating with that chucker tossing up stupid 3 after stupid 3 and getting his overrated defense lit up shows you just how special the players on this team are.

Neutral my ass!

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Originally Posted by timvp

This is pretty damn true. The US players don't really get anything out of playing in the Olympics. The US media not-so-secretly hopes they lose so that everyone can talk about the failure for a couple weeks non-stop. Basically, the US players are in a lose lose situation. If they win, they were supposed to win. If they lose, they are a group of conceited ballas who disgraced Americans because they didn't have any heart.

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QFT

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Originally Posted by timvp

It's the name on the back of the jersey that's important, not the front. Go tIaem go!

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Originally Posted by whottt

Tell me again who is doing this more for material(and otherwise) gain? Truely, all the NBA players are getting out of this is a gold medal...and literally nothing else. Not even good will from their countrymen...

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Kind of fail. China is one of the biggest markets for the NBA (if not the biggest). I'm sure Stern really wanted a Team USA like this one playing in Beijing, and Team USA players would love to see their popularity skyrocket in that country.

Of course, the same can be said about the members of Team Argentina. The point is: if you want to be tendencious and suspicious, you'll surely find a way to.

Dammit! Timvp said something nice while I was typing up a shittalking post. I hate it when that happens.

For the record timvp, my misquote post was in response to your stance that you don't know who to root for.

Also LJ, do you really want the Manu lovers having more ammunition against Tony Parker? Can you fucking see it now? "Manu led the NT to an upset over the Redeem team - I would drink his piss anyday!".

The Argies need an ego check in the worst way. The World is counting on it.

http://www.celluloid-dreams.de/conte...d-police-1.jpg

i wanna see Bryant and Manu have a Dominique/Bird moment.

thats all i want.

an argentinian win would be heart stopping.

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Originally Posted by AnotherArgie

Kind of fail. China is one of the biggest markets for the NBA (if not the biggest). I'm sure Stern really wanted a Team USA like this one playing in Beijing,

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That doesn't mean the players want to do it.

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and Team USA players would love to see their popularity skyrocket in that country.

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They truly don't give a shit about that...they already get paid and are famous.


It is definitely charity for them to do it...which is why so many of the best players decline the chance...like they did in 04.

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Of course, the same can be said about the members of Team Argentina. The point is: if you want to be tendencious and suspicious, you'll surely find a way to.

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I assure you, if you think the Americans get as much benfit from doing this as the Argies do, you are entirely wrong.

The primary reason for doing this is National Prestige within ones own country.


Why don't you conduct a poll and see how many Argies are rooting for Team USA VS how many Americans are rooting for Team Argentina...

Then tell me the benefit is the same.


If you get one Argie rooting for Team USA I will be in shock..


This is why I personally get irate over international posters generalizing my country....we Americans definitely aren't all the same...I remain unconvinced that is true of other posters...except for maybe the French.

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Originally Posted by AnotherArgie

Kind of fail. China is one of the biggest markets for the NBA (if not the biggest). I'm sure Stern really wanted a Team USA like this one playing in Beijing, and Team USA players would love to see their popularity skyrocket in that country.

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Why? What does that actually mean to the players?

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

And don't you ever step foot in a WalMart again. You do realize that Kobe/Boozer/Jkidd are just the handicap, right? Can you imagine if those 3 weren't on the team. They'd be winning games by 50 and I'm not even kidding.

The fact that they are dominating with that chucker tossing up stupid 3 after stupid 3 and getting his overrated defense lit up shows you just how special the players on this team are.

Neutral my ass!

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Are you telling me when you see Manu take Kobe off the dribble and dunk it on his azz, you are going to be saying "Dammit Kobe, you should have blocked that!"

I know I'll be celebrating each time Manu owns Kobe. I can't lie and say I have the ability to suddenly root for Kobe and against Manu.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Also LJ, do you really want the Manu lovers having more ammunition against Tony Parker? Can you fucking see it now? "Manu led the NT to an upset over the Redeem team - I would drink his piss anyday!".

The Argies need an ego check in the worst way. The World is counting on it.

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Eh, hardcore Manu Fan is delusional anyways. An embarrassment or a gold medal won't change that :lol

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Why? What does that actually mean to the players?

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basically when it comes to voting for the all star selections. these players will get the "Yao Ming" treatment from China.

a small dividend