I don't think you can ignore the accomplishments of the Argentina team with Manu as its driving force. With that in mind, I voted for Manu.
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I don't think you can ignore the accomplishments of the Argentina team with Manu as its driving force. With that in mind, I voted for Manu.
yes we can ignore ignore what Manu has done with his national team, and we must.Quote:
Originally Posted by spurster
it's a top 50 spurs (see 1st post)
Tony Parker.
The amount of shit he has done through his career as a Spur is staggering. The challenges and expectations placed upon him. The failures which he then learned from. The treatment from Pop. The change in Spurs style that started when he brought youth and energy and pace to the team.
The Spurs make him starting PG after 4 games. Not only that, at that stage, he is the first European PG to be a full time starter in the NBA (at least from memory, if not, I doubt there have been more than 4/5) and not only that, but he was only 19. The team has a great season and makes the playoffs and Parker has to face the best PG in the NBA in Gary Payton. What does he do? Plays incredible and puts it to Payton in a way nobody could of expected and helps the Spurs through to the second round to face LA. Now we all know about the embarassing events of the year before against LA, but this time with Parker in the lineup the Spurs challenge the Lakers and scare them far more than the previous playoffs and actually lead going into the 3rd quarter of each game, only to lose 4-1. Incredible season from a rookie PG, let alone a 19yr old european PG.
2003 comes and everyone is going on about Jason Kidd coming to the Spurs to be the new PG etc... What does Tony do? Sulk about it? No. He plays incredible basketball all season, gets over his demons against Marbury in the first round, torches LA in the second, outplays Steve Nash in the WCF and then plays Jason fucking Kidd to a standstill through the first 3 games of the NBA Finals. Sure he had 2 shockers in the final 3 games, but come on, the guy was 21, played a long season and was going against the best PG in the NBA. His 2003 season was incredible.
2004 and Tony sort of started treading water. While his season was great, the fans were wondering if he was going to take the next step. Then the playoffs come and Tony goes ballistic on Memphis and on the 4 Hall Of Fame and Hall of Fame coach lakers. After the first 2 games, the Lakers defensive attack gears itself towards Parker. Think about that. A 3rd year 22yr old PG is the main focus of a team spearheaded by someone who is considered by many as the best coach ever... Needless to say, Tony struggled. But he didn't let it ruin him, and as we all see now, it only made him a stronger and better play.
Actually, fuck it. I can't be bothered doing a run down anymore. The guy is a finals MVP. The guy is an All Star. He is targeted by opposition coaches every game as practically the #1 threat to fuck up there defensive strategies and he still delivers. He develops a goto move in the paint as a 6ft lightweight PG? Fuck, as much as I absolutely love Drob as my favourite sportsman ever, he never had a goto move in the paint. Our 6ft PG does? You gotta be kidding. He holds Richard Hamilton without a FG for 47 minutes of a Game 7 in the NBA Finals. He pulls out a huge defensive stop against Richard Hamilton in the OT of an NBA Finals Game 5. He plays 2xMVP Steve Nash to a standstill, even outplays him on the regular in the playoffs.
He gets bagged for not having a jumpshot, but develops one within a year that is as good as most PG's in the league. Doesn't have a huge ego, doesn't mind giving the ball up to another person at the end of the game if it's for the good of a team. Is durable. Plays defense better than 75% of the PG's in the NBA. Is clutch as fuck in the playoffs now after having the jitters early on. Get's the Spurs through a lot of the regular season. Might be the Spurs best regular season player actually. This guy has gone from being a 19year old Euro PG from Paris fucking Basket Racing and is now a scary mofo for any NBA team facing him.
As an influential person in Spurs history, I can't go past someone who has started at PG for 3 championships and been a Finals MVP for 1 of them. Starting PG for 7 years, two time All Star, and has been in the teams best 3 players for all of those 7 years.
Fuck Spurs fans who hate on Parker. He is incredible and we are very lucky to have him.
Tony. Then Manu. Then Silas. Then Elliott.
You'd think Sequ would be all over this poll already. :lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by spurster
This poll is not about what they did for Argentinas team.
Gotta go Manu than Parker, and Elliott
I can't believe that it NOW matters who a better player is. We're not talking about better players, because I think any of the remaining players is a better player than Pop or Drossos.
Manu is a better Spur, has meant more to this franchise (to-date) than anyone else on the list, and his impact to a city with a strong Latino base is more than anything Tony and his frenchie raps could ever do.
It's Manu, 2 spots too late.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spurster
Which is the whole point. It isn't about that - its about greatest Spur. If you take ONLY their Spurs games into account it should clearly be TP.
The pool does say greatest player or greatest accomplishments or greatest past not at the Spurs.
You think Michael Jordan is remembered as the greatest Wizards player ever?
Silas!
I voted Manu because of the names listed, he sticks out as the one with the largest quantity of memorable moments.
Also he is one of my favorite Spurs of all time.
wasn't Silas runner up in MVP voting to dr J?
Well now we know J.T.'s secret identity. I just never realized that A.J. and Vernon Maxwell were still that close.Quote:
Originally Posted by J.T.
Not that I'd vote for him yet... but I imagine Sam Presti should be on such a list eventually.
Manu's international achievements ...
... shows that he is a great player without TD on the court.
... brings a lot of international visibility to the Spurs.
Sean Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Lu ck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_Luck_The_Fakers_
:rollin
It clearly says most influential. So all things considered with the player must be taken into account. With Manu's fame in Argentina and in all Spanish speaking countries, his Olympic success and... that should be accounted for because it has shaped the Spurs and their fan base.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
I went ahead and voted Manu. Tony's international influence is strong as well, he has a Finals MVP, and he played more than a bit role in the 2003 championship. But, hey, he's no Manu Ginobili.
Manu. Parker is french and cannot be trusted. Crumbles under pressure too often.
With that line of thinking Tony should get votes for marrying Eva.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
I wonder if the plan was to start this thread just to get to the Tony vs Manu debate in one organized place.
Brilliant. One has to do with basketball (playing for country, playing on the world stage and bridging the gap between language barriers) and one has to do with...Quote:
Originally Posted by rascal
I wish people were better at using deductive reasoning.
I went with Parker, just because I don't think the 2nd and 4th championships happen without him. People can point to Parker's disappearance late in the '03 Finals and at a few other points along the way, but Tony Parker was absolutely vital to the Spurs reaching those Finals -- his Games 3 and 4 in Dallas that year completely changed the WCF that year.
I also think that Parker is a pivotal figure in Spurs history because, to me, he represents the swagger that the Spurs needed badly after the embarassment that was the 2001 West Finals. It wasn't just Parker who helped the Spurs erase that memory, but Parker came in and immediately began attacking and rarely backed down. Concerted efforts could deter him (the Nets' defensive shifts in the '03 Finals and the Lakers' paint packing come to mind) -- and sometimes still do. But there's no doubting that Tony Parker brought with him the one thing that the Spurs immediately needed in the aftermath of the worst humiliation in franchise history -- confidence.
I think, on the whole, that Parker is probably a tad more consistent than Ginobili has been; I think, on the whole, that Parker is more durable than Ginobili has been; and I think, on the whole, that Parker is much harder to replace than Ginobili has been. Parker is probably not as spectacular as Ginobili can be, and Parker is undoubtedly not as beloved as Ginobili is.
Also, it's not a deciding factor for me, but I got to thinking that there would never be a time that Popovich thought his team might be better by bringing Parker off the bench. I think Manu's style of play demands reduced minutes and I think it's far easier to find a useful wing player than a point, but there's some hint of Parker's value to his team in the fact that nobody would ever think to use him as a reserve.
Speedy Claxton?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruno
Manu was big in the LA series and in the Finals. He also had some moments against Dallas. But what will always stick with me is when people were calling for Speedy Claxton off the bench to sub in for Tony.