Spot Number 6 - Top 50 Spurs

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Originally Posted by century

Manu. Parker is french and cannot be trusted. Crumbles under pressure too often.

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Douche.

I could say the same about Manu. Doesn't make it true. Because it isn't. Just like what you said isn't true.

Neither of our backcourt crubmle under pressure, they are both great.

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

But there's no doubting that Tony Parker brought with him the one thing that the Spurs immediately needed in the aftermath of the worst humiliation in franchise history -- confidence.

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That's what I was trying to hint at in my post. That is one of the biggest things Tony brought to the Spurs.

:tu to FWD for eloquently stating something I was unable to. :lol

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Originally Posted by MI21

Douche.

I could say the same about Manu. Doesn't make it true. Because it isn't. Just like what you said isn't true.

Neither of our backcourt crubmle under pressure, they are both great.

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You're just a clueless cocksucker. When Manu disappears it is because of an injury. OTOH, Parker disappears regularly with no apparent reason aside from tough opposition. Manu is a fighter, Parker submits too often.

Parker is good when he is motivated but he has too many lapses.

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Originally Posted by E20

Speedy Claxton?
Manu was big in the LA series and in the Finals. He also had some moments against Dallas. But what will always stick with me is when people were calling for Speedy Claxton off the bench to sub in for Tony.

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Speedy Claxton is remembered as far better than what he was, that's for sure.

Let's just forget Tony's input in Games 1, 2, 3 and 5? He gets a pass for Game 4 like everyone else, because from memory, everyone was shit. Game 6 he was absolutely terrible. He was 21, 2nd year player going up against Jason Kidd, the guy everyone wanted the Spurs to sign to replace him. He did very, very well.

how am i the only vote for brent?!?!:lol

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Originally Posted by century

You're just a clueless cocksucker. When Manu disappears it is because of an injury. OTOH, Parker disappears regularly with no apparent reason aside from tough opposition. Manu is a fighter, Parker submits too often.

Parker is good when he is motivated but he has too many lapses.

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Oh, I see. It's only injuries.

:rolleyes

Fuck this, new age Spurs fan can't appreciate what they have.

I voted Elliott. It's a bit of a personal pick, as he's my all time favorite Spur. Talent wise, yes I think he's a step back of Tony and Manu, although for the shamefully brief prime when he knees were still fully intact he was an All Star caliber SF.

What puts him at the top of my list is that this is a Spurs list, and at this point I put him second only to DRob in terms of being not just a career Spur but a lifelong Spur. Technically you couldn't call him a career Spur, but I hated the trade, I hated Rodman, and Sean hated his time in Detroit, so I'm on board for giving reality a friendly rewrite that makes everyone happier. At this point their basketball resumes are more accomplished, but with big changes looming in the next five years or so for the Spurs it's not outside the realm of possibility that Manu or Tony could end up elsewhere, and I woudn't be surprised if their retirement years take place away from San Antonio as well.

Alot of people liked to point to AJ or David as the symbol of what that 99 championship team was all about, but I really think that Sean really embodied the journey that team took to become champions. AJ was always a tough, hard worker, and most any Spurs fan knew that David was not soft. But the knocks that people put on those mid-90's teams could be accurately applied to Elliott; namely that the talent was definitely there, but whether you call it drive or heart or mental toughness or any other sports cliche, there was something lacking. He had a tendency to fade when the Spurs needed him the most in the postseaon. He was not the guy you expected to bury the Blazers with the most dramatic shot in Spurs history, and definitely not the guy you expected to chase the other team's best scorer on a pair of worn out knees and busted kidneys. He became that guy under Pop and that change was the epitome of what that 99 was all about in my book.

Plus, this guy makes League Pass worth every penny in my book. Being able to get Spurs home coverage for about 30 games a year here in Houston is such a joy. Doesn't matter what the score is Sean usually finds a way to make the game entertaining.

Between being a part of that much iconic Spurs history and his continued presence there, he's got my vote.

:tu Elliott gets my vote as well.

A friendly reminder to those who haven't voted yet...

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Originally Posted by MI21

Tony Parker.

The amount of shit he has done through his career as a Spur is staggering. The challenges and expectations placed upon him. The failures which he then learned from. The treatment from Pop. The change in Spurs style that started when he brought youth and energy and pace to the team.

The Spurs make him starting PG after 4 games. Not only that, at that stage, he is the first European PG to be a full time starter in the NBA (at least from memory, if not, I doubt there have been more than 4/5) and not only that, but he was only 19. The team has a great season and makes the playoffs and Parker has to face the best PG in the NBA in Gary Payton. What does he do? Plays incredible and puts it to Payton in a way nobody could of expected and helps the Spurs through to the second round to face LA. Now we all know about the embarassing events of the year before against LA, but this time with Parker in the lineup the Spurs challenge the Lakers and scare them far more than the previous playoffs and actually lead going into the 3rd quarter of each game, only to lose 4-1. Incredible season from a rookie PG, let alone a 19yr old european PG.

2003 comes and everyone is going on about Jason Kidd coming to the Spurs to be the new PG etc... What does Tony do? Sulk about it? No. He plays incredible basketball all season, gets over his demons against Marbury in the first round, torches LA in the second, outplays Steve Nash in the WCF and then plays Jason fucking Kidd to a standstill through the first 3 games of the NBA Finals. Sure he had 2 shockers in the final 3 games, but come on, the guy was 21, played a long season and was going against the best PG in the NBA. His 2003 season was incredible.

2004 and Tony sort of started treading water. While his season was great, the fans were wondering if he was going to take the next step. Then the playoffs come and Tony goes ballistic on Memphis and on the 4 Hall Of Fame and Hall of Fame coach lakers. After the first 2 games, the Lakers defensive attack gears itself towards Parker. Think about that. A 3rd year 22yr old PG is the main focus of a team spearheaded by someone who is considered by many as the best coach ever... Needless to say, Tony struggled. But he didn't let it ruin him, and as we all see now, it only made him a stronger and better play.

Actually, fuck it. I can't be bothered doing a run down anymore. The guy is a finals MVP. The guy is an All Star. He is targeted by opposition coaches every game as practically the #1 threat to fuck up there defensive strategies and he still delivers. He develops a goto move in the paint as a 6ft lightweight PG? Fuck, as much as I absolutely love Drob as my favourite sportsman ever, he never had a goto move in the paint. Our 6ft PG does? You gotta be kidding. He holds Richard Hamilton without a FG for 47 minutes of a Game 7 in the NBA Finals. He pulls out a huge defensive stop against Richard Hamilton in the OT of an NBA Finals Game 5. He plays 2xMVP Steve Nash to a standstill, even outplays him on the regular in the playoffs.

He gets bagged for not having a jumpshot, but develops one within a year that is as good as most PG's in the league. Doesn't have a huge ego, doesn't mind giving the ball up to another person at the end of the game if it's for the good of a team. Is durable. Plays defense better than 75% of the PG's in the NBA. Is clutch as fuck in the playoffs now after having the jitters early on. Get's the Spurs through a lot of the regular season. Might be the Spurs best regular season player actually. This guy has gone from being a 19year old Euro PG from Paris fucking Basket Racing and is now a scary mofo for any NBA team facing him.

As an influential person in Spurs history, I can't go past someone who has started at PG for 3 championships and been a Finals MVP for 1 of them. Starting PG for 7 years, two time All Star, and has been in the teams best 3 players for all of those 7 years.

Fuck Spurs fans who hate on Parker. He is incredible and we are very lucky to have him.

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It's nice that Parker has a Finals MVP and all but it did come against a weaker than weak Cavs team. Daniel Gibson wasn't exactly a seasoned vet or anything and it was a foregone conclusion that the Spurs were going to stomp a mudhole in that team which they did. I was hoping to see Parker get another shot at the Pistons and prove his mettle because Billups ate up Parker so bad in the 2005 Finals that Popovich had to practically hide him on offense (especially in Game 7) as well as giving his PG duties to Ginobili and Barry. I think you pretty much had to highlight and overrate Parker's defensive play a tad bit to make up for his absolute choking. I'm not sure where you came up with Parker holding Hamilton without a FG for 47 minutes. I don't think Hamilton even played that long in Game 7 and I'm quite certain he scored in that game lol. And he had a myriad of defenders on him. Not just Parker.

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Originally Posted by spurs_fan_in_exile

I voted Elliott. It's a bit of a personal pick, as he's my all time favorite Spur. Talent wise, yes I think he's a step back of Tony and Manu, although for the shamefully brief prime when he knees were still fully intact he was an All Star caliber SF.

What puts him at the top of my list is that this is a Spurs list, and at this point I put him second only to DRob in terms of being not just a career Spur but a lifelong Spur. Technically you couldn't call him a career Spur, but I hated the trade, I hated Rodman, and Sean hated his time in Detroit, so I'm on board for giving reality a friendly rewrite that makes everyone happier. At this point their basketball resumes are more accomplished, but with big changes looming in the next five years or so for the Spurs it's not outside the realm of possibility that Manu or Tony could end up elsewhere, and I woudn't be surprised if their retirement years take place away from San Antonio as well.

Alot of people liked to point to AJ or David as the symbol of what that 99 championship team was all about, but I really think that Sean really embodied the journey that team took to become champions. AJ was always a tough, hard worker, and most any Spurs fan knew that David was not soft. But the knocks that people put on those mid-90's teams could be accurately applied to Elliott; namely that the talent was definitely there, but whether you call it drive or heart or mental toughness or any other sports cliche, there was something lacking. He had a tendency to fade when the Spurs needed him the most in the postseaon. He was not the guy you expected to bury the Blazers with the most dramatic shot in Spurs history, and definitely not the guy you expected to chase the other team's best scorer on a pair of worn out knees and busted kidneys. He became that guy under Pop and that change was the epitome of what that 99 was all about in my book.

Plus, this guy makes League Pass worth every penny in my book. Being able to get Spurs home coverage for about 30 games a year here in Houston is such a joy. Doesn't matter what the score is Sean usually finds a way to make the game entertaining.

Between being a part of that much iconic Spurs history and his continued presence there, he's got my vote.

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Considering their involvement in 3 of the 4 Spurs Championships, I have to put Manu and Tony both ahead of Sean.

However, Sean will always be one of my absolute favorite Spurs, and as soon as 9 and 21 make the list, I'll be voting to put him on next.

Not to mention all the great laughs and memorable moments.

"Ta-Co Ca-Ba-Na!"

Ooh, and this cracked me up...

lol at ducks having more than 10 trolls to keep the chase close :lmao

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Originally Posted by Dex

Considering their involvement in 3 of the 4 Spurs Championships, I have to put Manu and Tony both ahead of Sean.

However, Sean will always be one of my absolute favorite Spurs, and as soon as 9 and 21 make the list, I'll be voting to put him on next.

Not to mention all the great laughs and memorable moments.

"Ta-Co Ca-Ba-Na!"

Ooh, and this cracked me up...

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Oh shit, I totally got sidetracked and forgot to mention the Cabana commercials. That's the icing on the cake!

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It clearly says most influential. So all things considered with the player must be taken into account. With Manu's fame in Argentina and in all Spanish speaking countries, his Olympic success and... that should be accounted for because it has shaped the Spurs and their fan base.

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I don't think his international career should be accounted in this but it is very impressive in the international way. I would put Tony next in the list. He's been the point guard and has really grown each and every year. He has carried this team. I think Manu should be up here somewhere with him but I think the only thing Manu's going to be recognized for with the Spurs is being the sixth man of the year:p:.

I think it's between Parker and Ginobili for me. My first instinct is to go with Manu, but I also gave the nod to Duncan over Robinson earlier in this poll, and one of my reasons was giving Duncan advance credit for what he was going to do over the next 5-10 years.

While I don't claim to be psychic or know any more about what will happen by 2018 than anyone else, I'm pretty sure Parker's impact over the next 10 years will be much more than Manu's. I'm not one of those who buy into the idea that Manu will be completely ineffective in 2 years, but I think based on who is on the roster at this point, this will essentially be Tony's team when Tim nears retirement. While you don't want to throw too much speculation into the voting, you also don't want an order that you'll be completely unhappy about in 10 years.

Who's better? Tony Parker or Manu Ginobili? :lmao

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Its the damn truth though. I love Manu but to ignore the reality that he has the biggest rabid section of followers on this team is just ridiculous.

It really should be Parker. Manu has been a great player for the Spurs, but I think if you just weight their Spurs careers Parker has a slight edge here. Manu will have the edge overall due to his national team success but thats not what we're talking about here.

I think the icing on the cake is the last playoff run. Parker was clearly the better player.

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07 yes, but not so much before that. Last year Manu was hurt so I won't guage that playoff run, he still had some great games. Every year before that though pretty much in the playoffs it was Manu, Parker would dissapear in many series and even be benched in favor of a backup in big games due to innefectiveness, fact. Manu is just so clutch it's hard for me to go against him in this one, he is just so unique and I have never seen a player like that before him. He doest the things that win games, period.

Parker is #7 on this list though, no doubt.

Whos that ref Pops yelling at? :)

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Originally Posted by E20

Speedy Claxton?
Manu was big in the LA series and in the Finals. He also had some moments against Dallas. But what will always stick with me is when people were calling for Speedy Claxton off the bench to sub in for Tony.

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2003 NBA Finals Statistics
http://www.nba.com/spurs/stats/2002/...als_stats.html

Tim Duncan 43.8 min 24.2 pts 17.0 rbs 5.3 ast
Tony Parker 35.3 min 14.0 pts 3.2 rbs 4.2 ast
David Robinson 26.8 min 10.8 pts 7.3 rbs 0.7 ast
Stephen Jackson 35.5 min 10.3 pts 4.2 rbs 2.7 ast
Manu Ginobili 28.7 min 8.7 pts 4.5 rbs 2.0 ast
...
Speedy Claxton 12.5 min 6.2 pts 1.0 rbs 1.5 ast

I'm with SFIE in having Sean Elliott be my all-time favorite Spur, but I think Tony Parker has actually been more important to the organization than Sean -- though I'll also agree that's close. Don't forget that along with all of the other fun things that Sean does and has done (and there's no doubt that the MDM is truly the turning point of the franchise's history) he was the Spurs publicity guy -- and a very good one -- during the Saddles and Spurs campaign, which was vital to keeping the Spurs in San Antonio, too. I'd say that's a pretty significant contribution.

On the down side, Sean Elliott is at least responisble by implication for the Dennis Rodman era -- speaking of which, no Will Perdue on the list of nominees??? And what about John Lucas?

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Originally Posted by MI21

Speedy Claxton is remembered as far better than what he was, that's for sure.
Let's just forget Tony's input in Games 1, 2, 3 and 5? He gets a pass for Game 4 like everyone else, because from memory, everyone was shit. Game 6 he was absolutely terrible. He was 21, 2nd year player going up against Jason Kidd, the guy everyone wanted the Spurs to sign to replace him. He did very, very well.

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This post is spot on. People act like Claxton was a hero in that series, when it really wasn't that much. In the playoffs, Claxton shot a subpar percentage (42? 43?) and averaged 5 and 2. It had a couple good games out of 24.

But people really glorify it. Posters here actually say stuff like, "I remember Claxton came in and knocked down 3 after 3 while Parker sulked on the bench."

Note: Claxton didn't shoot a 3 in the postseason and was 0-11 from 3 in his Spurs career.

Anyway, back to the poll... I think I'm voting for Bruce.

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Originally Posted by spurster

I don't think you can ignore the accomplishments of the Argentina team with Manu as its driving force. With that in mind, I voted for Manu.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

It clearly says most influential. So all things considered with the player must be taken into account. With Manu's fame in Argentina and in all Spanish speaking countries, his Olympic success and... that should be accounted for because it has shaped the Spurs and their fan base.

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Originally Posted by spurster

Manu's international achievements ...

... shows that he is a great player without TD on the court.

... brings a lot of international visibility to the Spurs.

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Originally Posted by rascal

With that line of thinking Tony should get votes for marrying Eva.

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:lol True

If you are going to start giving bonus points for bringing international viewers, Mengke Bateer better be in the top ten because he brought more international viewers than anyone the Spurs ever signed. I don't see how international success means much of anything in terms of success during a player's Spurs career. If this poll were "best players who happened to also play with the Spurs", then this spot would probably be Moses Malone's with Dominique Wilkins and Artis Gilmore following him.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

This post is spot on. People act like Claxton was a hero in that series, when it really wasn't that much. In the playoffs, Claxton shot a subpar percentage (42? 43?) and averaged 5 and 2. It had a couple good games out of 24.

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It was 44% for the playoff run:

Claxton -- 24 games, 13.6 mpg, .438 FG, .000 3PT, .750 FT, 1.90 rpg, 1.9 apg, .67 spg, .21 bpg, 1.00 to/gm, 5.2 ppg

By round for Claxton:

v. PNX-- 6 gms, 17.0 mpg, .333 FG, .000 3PT, .714 FT, 1.70 rpg, 2.8 apg, .50 spg, 2.00 to/g, 5.0 ppg

v. LAL-- 6 gms, 12.2 mpg, .517 FG, .000 3PT, .750 FT, 1.50 rpg, 2.2 apg, .67 spg, .67 to/g, 6.5 ppg

v. DAL -- 6 gms, 12.7 mpg, .333 FG, .000 3PT, .833 FT, 3.3 rpg, 1.0 apg, .83 spg, .67 to/g, 3.2 ppg

v. NJN -- 6 gms, 12.5 mpg, .560 FG, .000 3PT, .750 FT, 1.0 rpg, 1.5 apg, .67 spg, .67 to/g, 6.2 ppg

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Originally Posted by timvp

:lol True

If you are going to start giving bonus points for bringing international viewers, Mengke Bateer better be in the top ten because he brought more international viewers than anyone the Spurs ever signed. I don't see how international success means much of anything in terms of success during a player's Spurs career. If this poll were "best players who happened to also play with the Spurs", then this spot would probably be Moses Malone's with Dominique Wilkins and Artis Gilmore following him.

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It has nothing to do with international viewers. It has to do with Spurs basketball. Manu not only has done well, but he has influenced fans, pulled them in and made a lot of money for the Spurs organizations. That is why you can include owners in the rankings.

Manu.

I imagine these polls and discussions are about to get tougher.

I voted Rodman