Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?

Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
Buck Harvey - BEIJING — The Spurs had no choice. They had to go along with Manu Ginobili.

They had to say, yes, we trust you. They had to accept that the same Ginobili they love in tense moments is the same Ginobili who will sacrifice everything to play with his Argentine buddies.

They had no choice but to allow Ginobili to do what he shouldn't have done.

Now?

It will be the Spurs' choice.

Today, with an ice pack on his notorious left ankle, Ginobili would do it all over again. To defend his gold medal against the Americans, with Maradona in the stands, Ginobili would have played in Beijing if he had to be propped up with chopsticks.

“I don't forget that eight years ago we were fighting for eighth place in the World Championships,” he wrote on his Web site this week, “and did not make the Olympics at all.”

He built an international power, and the sea change came in Indianapolis in the 2002 World Championships. Then, just before he joined the Spurs, he and Argentina became the first to beat a U.S. team consisting of NBA players.

That tournament also introduced what would become Ginobili's weakness. He severely sprained his left ankle for the first time, and what followed was telling. Ginobili hobbled out for the gold-medal game.

Argentina doctors should have stopped him, and some within the Spurs organization wonder if this decision haunts Ginobili still. Other bruises have come and gone for El Contusion; this one is as fresh as ever.

When he collapsed here, there was nothing traumatic about it. He drove, LeBron James cut him off and he passed while landing. Athletes with pre-existing injuries get hurt this way.

Ginobili stayed on the floor for a few minutes, then limped to the bench where he removed his left sneaker. He held his ankle with both hands, as if that would relieve the pain.

Within minutes he was in the locker room, never to return. And after the game, without knowing the injury report, the Argentina coach didn't count out Ginobili for the bronze-medal game. He was as optimistic as the Argentines were in Indianapolis in 2002.

The ankle bothered Ginobili in his rookie year, and it sure did last season. It may have cost the Spurs a championship, too. Given that, he owed it to his employer to rest. There's some loyalty that comes with a $10 million annual salary.

In mid-June Ginobili was leaning that way. “The ankle injury is worse than I thought,” he admitted to reporters in Argentina.

Gregg Popovich saw a crack and went public. “My concern,” he said then, “is that it is going to get worse. He's got to seriously consider his health.”

Ginobili flew back to San Antonio shortly after for another injection, but he began to talk about playing again. When Argentina announced Ginobili would carry the flag for the opening ceremonies in Beijing, that cinched it.

Popovich knew he had lost. All he could do was send a trainer to Buenos Aires to monitor Ginobili's workouts with the national team.

Now Popovich is waiting for the medical reports, and he and his staff are anxious. One source said this last summer: If the shot Ginobili received in June didn't take, and if he played and re-injured the ankle, he might need surgery.

Ginobili just turned 31. With or without surgery, how long can he be effective?

Ginobili's contract is up in two years. The Spurs have already discussed an extension, and now they have another reason to wait a year before making a decision. There's no rush.

But Ginobili's fragile status will be part of the equation. Tim Duncan and Tony Parker will be the only Spurs under contract in 2010, not counting Ian Mahinmi's minimum deal. That means there's a lot of cap room.

An NFL team wouldn't hesitate. They'd cut the aging, limping player and find someone else.

But finding another Ginobili is impossible. He's been the Spurs' most popular and most fearless.

Still, his style was always going to burn out early, and that's why this summer could be another sea change. Ginobili risked everything when he came to Beijing, and he lost.

He chose, and he was wrong. And now it is someone else's turn to choose.

[email protected]
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/c...l_he_goes.html

The ankle bothered Ginobili in his rookie year, and it sure did last season. It may have cost the Spurs a championship, too. Given that, he owed it to his employer to rest. There's some loyalty that comes with a $10 million annual salary.

we traded sean elliott for getting sick, and that wasn't even his fault

I would really hate to see Ginobili's career with the Spurs end due to an injury.

Dead on article by Buck.

Ginobili made a stupid decision and now the Spurs have to consider all possible options for the betterment of the franchise.

buck harvey starting the pr move
incase the let manu walk

All the NBA teams should band together and sign an agreement - all teams will have a 'You can only play in the Olympics if your team says it is OK' clause into future contracts.

this HAS to go for american players too, so it looks fair.

no way does pop trade manu. NO WAY!!

Manu will never regret playing this year, life is about gambles, you win some you lose some.

Manu in some ways is just as important as Tim Duncan. his value and importance to the team is undervalued for whoever u trade him for.

no way this happens. and whoever says it should doesnt know what theyre talking about.

(and its not because im a manu fan either)

Buck=Waste Of Space

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Originally Posted by mrspurs

Buck=Waste Of Space

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so if they do not meet your standards you kill them?

The Spurs cannot win a title without Manu...unless they can find another "Manu"...

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Originally Posted by xtremesteven33

no way does pop trade manu. NO WAY!!

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it's not Sophie's Choice. It's a business, grow up Manu fan.

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Originally Posted by TampaDude

The Spurs cannot win a title without Manu...unless they can find another "Manu"...

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yeah they can
they just have to find someone else by trading his broken done body to a team that likes broken down bodie and get close to = value back

manu is replacable
just like tp and duncan

if spurs get a player close to manu's abilities they will be fine and could easily win the title




people said without david spurs would not win a title and they DID

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Originally Posted by ducks

if spurs get a player close to manu's abilities they will be fine and could easily win the title

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If it were only that easy.

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Originally Posted by ducks

The ankle bothered Ginobili in his rookie year, and it sure did last season. It may have cost the Spurs a championship, too. Given that, he owed it to his employer to rest. There's some loyalty that comes with a $10 million annual salary.

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Your country comes first.

Kobe Bryant is playing for the U.S team, but he also has a job in L.A

He too runs the risk of getting injured.

Stop babbling stupid things

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Originally Posted by TampaDude

The Spurs cannot win a title without Manu...unless they can find another "Manu"...

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They've won 2 without him... He wasn't a big factor in 2003.

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Originally Posted by Oh, Gee!!

we traded sean elliott for getting sick, and that wasn't even his fault

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:tu


Time to pull the trigger.... and this is coming from a guy who's favorite spurs is manu. But I love the team as a whole way more than any individual player on the team

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Originally Posted by gospursgojas

They've won 2 without him... He wasn't a big factor in 2003.

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I'm talking about 2009, not 2003.

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Time to pull the trigger.... and this is coming from a guy who's favorite spurs is manu. But I love the team as a whole way more than any individual player on the team

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+1 I'm a SPURS fan first! :toast

I would trade Manu for SJax in a second.

Lame article :td

We don't even know how serious is Manu's injury and Harvey is writing an article like he has a career ending injury. :rolleyes

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Lame article :td

We don't even know how serious is Manu's injury and Harvey is writing an article like he has a career ending injury. :rolleyes

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Agreed. No need to jump the gun like this in August.

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Originally Posted by gospursgojas

They've won 2 without him... He wasn't a big factor in 2003.

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Sure he wasn't. :rolleyes
Go take a look at the tape for game 4 or 5 against the Nets, where he has that steal in the closing minutes, followed by a floater over KMart.
He won us that game.
Go ask Richard Jefferson who changed the momentum in Game 6, after stealing the ball from him and going for a dunk.

The problem is that you have short memory.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Agreed. No need to jump the gun like this in August.

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The funny thing is that he probably already had an article written about how special Manu is in the unlikely event that Argentina would have beat Team USA today. He's just pissing in the wind right now.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

The funny thing is that he probably already had an article written about how special Manu is in the unlikely event that Argentina would have beat Team USA today. He's just pissing in the wind right now.

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It's more likely he had this one about his getting injured ready in advance, since there is no way the US would have lost to Argentina with or without Manu :stirpot:

I'm so sorry to hear Spurs folks reacting like this. He has proven over and over again that patriotism is more important to him than money. I would have thought that folks in San Antonio would respect that, perhaps even understand it.

Ginobili in Argentina is the equivalent of Tiger Woods in America right now. If Tiger had said he would not play for an American team because Nike was afraid he would hurt himself, folks would be blaming him for not being patriotic enough. I respect the guys who play for their countries. Ten million buys the loyalty it buys. It buys, for Manu, all the grit and drive and talent he has every single night of the season for his nba team. It buys a willingness to put his team before himself and his own statistics by playing hurt when necessary, by coming off the bench behind a guy like Finley who hasn't Manu's youth or talent, by never whining or crying when others on the team get more press and adulation. He doesn't owe the Spurs or San Antonio one other thing. He entered into his contract with them, and they with him, as an economic transaction. Manu has more than lived up to his end of the agreement. The Spurs are quick to point out the "business" aspect of the sport when it is to their advantage in negotiations. They, and we, should expect the same from the athletes we pay to play here.

His country didn't engage in a bidding war to buy his loyalty. It didn't have to. He is true to his nation of birth. Isn't that something we should applaud???

Manu got hurt during the regular season in San Antonio. So should the Argentines say that he shouldn't have played so hard for the Spurs because he had the Olympics coming up? C'mon guys. Country is bigger than salaries or nba seasons.

Buck Harvey has really sunk to a new low. I wasn't certain that was possible.

as a spur fan I am totally pissed off at this situation. Ginobili should have never played. Knowing he will not be healthy changes the outlook on the season and it has not even begun.

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It may have cost the Spurs a championship, too. Given that, he owed it to his employer to rest. There's some loyalty that comes with a $10 million annual salary.

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Thank you for stating the obvious Buck.

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Country is bigger than salaries or nba seasons.

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When did Argentina start paying him 10 million a year?

Oh yeah never. When playing for your country gets you multiple houses and nice cars and all that stuff, come back and talk to me.



Great, so now hes looking at surgery possibly?

Great job Ginobili.... The epitome of selfish.

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If Tiger had said he would not play for an American team because Nike was afraid he would hurt himself, folks would be blaming him for not being patriotic enough.

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Nobody cares enough about the Ryder Cup for that to matter.

I find it hilarious that golf is being compared to basketball in terms of getting injured.

Fail.

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Originally Posted by MiamiHeat

All the NBA teams should band together and sign an agreement - all teams will have a 'You can only play in the Olympics if your team says it is OK' clause into future contracts.

this HAS to go for american players too, so it looks fair.

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Yeah, I yearn for the days when the Olympics were for amateurs. The genie is out of the bottle but this is what happens.

I didn't even like the idea of the original Dream Team.

Even if a player doesn't get injured, more often then not, they end up having an off year the following season because they have been playing competitive ball to long without an extended period of rest.

Screw it, the Olympics should basically be track and field and swimming and few other events. We don't need softball, synchronized diving, the horseback riding, baseball, cycling, yada, yada, yada......

Hell why not have rodeo or cricket? Do they have shuffleboard?

Agreed, the college players should be playing in these olympics.

This is just such a bad situation. I really hope that Manu stays and the fans will be loyal. I understand the arguments made, but I really do not agree with them. Trade Ginobili? For who? Not only did we steal him for 9-10M per year (which makes it hard to get fair value) he is at his lowest value right now, so who can we get? Even if we do trade him, is that person going to do for San Antonio (fans, clutch, passion...) what Manu has done?

I hope he can heal close to fully, without surgery. Every one is injured in the NBA, it does not mean you trade them. But I guess if you can get a homerun deal, then you do it?

Talk about piling on....

When it rains, it pours as they say.

Chicken Littles are proclaiming the sky is falling.

Bruce Harvey reminds me a lot of Bil Plasichke with the LA Times....jumping on whatever bandwagon is running at the moment.

Trade him, cut him, burn him at the stake....geez!!

We won't know for a bit the extent of Manu's injury. I hope it's not too serious and that he is given enough time to heal so that he comes back strong when it matters = playoffs.

How is Manu Ginobili selfish? Did he not agree to a contract that is way under his value? I mean, when you are trying to save money when signing players, especially like Ginobili, you know you are going to have to concede other areas, Olympic play was one of them.

No one was saying he was selfish when he was playing for the Spurs, giving it his all in the WCF.

TPark, with all due respect, I think you missed the point. The comparison is NOT between golf and basketball as a potential source of athletic injury, the comparison is between a sports deity in one country and a sports deity in another. Woods is the American "athlete of the year" multiple years...Ginobili is the "athlete of the year" in Argentina multiple years.

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Originally Posted by EVAY

He has proven over and over again that patriotism is more important to him than money. I would have thought that folks in San Antonio would respect that, perhaps even understand it.

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If that were true, he would return his salary to the Spurs for games he misses due to an injury sustained while representing Argentina.

If Manu agreed ahead of time to waive any Spurs salary obligations while he recovered from injury, THAT would be putting country ahead of MONEY. That would demonstrate the (noble and admirable) principle that he valued representing Argentina over anything else. Right now, all he's doing is putting his country ahead of the Spurs Organizaton, which really isn't all that much of a sacrifice for Manu.

One thing for sure: Manu has put himself in a precarious situation. He has lost all leverage with the Spurs, and now some with the fans as well.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

One thing for sure: Manu has put himself in a precarious situation. He has lost all leverage with the Spurs, and now some with the fans as well.

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"Some fans" being the key words here. This guy plays with so much passion and has the commitment to be the best he can be. I don't doubt Manu at all.

The Spurs may let him go in a year or two but I hope they don't regret it.

I have to go back and read it again but I thought the gist of the article was not about trading Manu but rather letting him walk in 2010.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

No one was saying he was selfish when he was playing for the Spurs, giving it his all in the WCF.

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if he was not he would have been selfish
he is paid to play

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

How is Manu Ginobili selfish? Did he not agree to a contract that is way under his value? I mean, when you are trying to save money when signing players, especially like Ginobili, you know you are going to have to concede other areas, Olympic play was one of them.

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The Spurs didn't have to concede anything.

Especially with this extension he wants now.

He gets 8.5 9 mill a year.

The least he can do is head his employer's asking of "staying home"

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Agreed. No need to jump the gun like this in August.

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Considering the way several people here on ST already have jumped the gun - can you really blame Harvey for doing the same? :lol

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Originally Posted by T Park

The Spurs didn't have to concede anything.

Especially with this extension he wants now.

He gets 8.5 9 mill a year.

The least he can do is head his employer's asking of "staying home"

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Spurs knew what they were getting into when they signed Ginobili. Yes he makes 9M a year. He should be making Luol Deng/Joe Johnson money, not Nene money.

I do agree about the extension though, the Spurs should concede no more.

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Originally Posted by mytespurs

Chicken Littles are proclaiming the sky is falling.

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http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x...nlittlegif.gif

(I love this gif. :lol)

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

No one was saying he was selfish when he was playing for the Spurs, giving it his all in the WCF.

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U can't quite seperate employer volunteer can you?

If Manu does have to miss any real playing time come the start of the season I'll be cool (not thrilled) with the decision to shut him down and get him healthy....as long as Finley doesn't see an increase in the minutes he would've received this year (which hopefully wouldn't be that many) prior to the injury. This would be a time to see what Udoka and the new guys have to offer the team in terms of helping out the overall depth which has seemed to decline the past few seasons. That said, I'll wait with baited breadth to hear any news on the ankle.

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Originally Posted by T Park

U can't quite seperate employer volunteer can you?

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The fact that he was visibly hurt and could of caused himself serious long-term damage means he should of sat out. Judging by his play, the Spurs would not of been worse off.

Whether it was playing for his employer (Spurs) or volunteering for his country (Argentina), he was hurt and risking serious injury. If he was hurt that bad, then you should consider both selfish acts (playing for the Spurs and Argentina) imo.

If Kobe went out and re-injured his finger worst than it was before, would the Lakers be pissed? Probably not.
For Kobe it was more of a ego thing than representing his country which Manu was doing.
Point is, we've got 2 months before preseason starts. We don't know how bad he's hurt. For all we know it could've just tweeked it which causes more pain than normal.
I can't hate Manu for what he did. He's given us so much the last 6 years that if he retired tomorrow, I wouldn't be mad.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

The fact that he was visibly hurt and could of caused himself serious long-term damage means he should of sat out. Judging by his play, the Spurs would not of been worse off.

Whether it was playing for his employer (Spurs) or volunteering for his country (Argentina), he was hurt and risking serious injury. If he was hurt that bad, then you should consider both selfish acts (playing for the Spurs and Argentina) imo.

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No you can't consider, working for your employer selfish, while volunteering to play in something that doesn't benefit your employer one iota.

He was advised and asked to stay home and not play, he disobeyed that and defied that request, so he should be treated accordingly

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Originally Posted by Jobbs

If Kobe went out and re-injured his finger worst than it was before, would the Lakers be pissed? Probably not.For Kobe it was more of a ego thing than representing his country which Manu was doing.
Point is, we've got 2 months before preseason starts. We don't know how bad he's hurt. For all we know it could've just tweeked it which causes more pain than normal.
I can't hate Manu for what he did. He's given us so much the last 6 years that if he retired tomorrow, I wouldn't be mad.

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The hell they would't

They would say "While you were screwing around with this team, you could've gotten the finger fixed, been rehabbing it, and been 100% for the regular season opener or close to it."

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Originally Posted by T Park

No you can't consider, working for your employer selfish, while volunteering to play in something that doesn't benefit your employer one iota.

He was advised and asked to stay home and not play, he disobeyed that and defied that request, so he should be treated accordingly

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get a life mofo

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Originally Posted by T Park

The hell they would't

They would say "While you were screwing around with this team, you could've gotten the finger fixed, been rehabbing it, and been 100% for the regular season opener or close to it."

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:lol I haven't heard Phil Jack or anyone over in their FO say Kobe stay home.

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Originally Posted by Jobbs

:lol I haven't heard Phil Jack or anyone over in their FO say Kobe stay home.

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Phil won't say it.

But I gaurantee if you asked him he would say what I said.

Mark it down.

Fuk.. Buck Harvey is fukin dead on. Unbelievable.

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Originally Posted by 4cc

ginobili was stupid to play in games 1 and 2 of the WCF and pops was stupider for letting him play

ginobili was stupid all by himself to try and play in the olympics

(stupid if he wanted to keep playing in the nba) but he knew the risk of playing in the olympics and went ahead and did it and possibly got real hurt, so it's the spurs turn to make a decision

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I really hope He gets traded.seriusly
SA don't deserve a guy like Ginobili.Period

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Originally Posted by EVAY

I'm so sorry to hear Spurs folks reacting like this. He has proven over and over again that patriotism is more important to him than money. I would have thought that folks in San Antonio would respect that, perhaps even understand it.

Ginobili in Argentina is the equivalent of Tiger Woods in America right now. If Tiger had said he would not play for an American team because Nike was afraid he would hurt himself, folks would be blaming him for not being patriotic enough. I respect the guys who play for their countries. Ten million buys the loyalty it buys. It buys, for Manu, all the grit and drive and talent he has every single night of the season for his nba team. It buys a willingness to put his team before himself and his own statistics by playing hurt when necessary, by coming off the bench behind a guy like Finley who hasn't Manu's youth or talent, by never whining or crying when others on the team get more press and adulation. He doesn't owe the Spurs or San Antonio one other thing. He entered into his contract with them, and they with him, as an economic transaction. Manu has more than lived up to his end of the agreement. The Spurs are quick to point out the "business" aspect of the sport when it is to their advantage in negotiations. They, and we, should expect the same from the athletes we pay to play here.

His country didn't engage in a bidding war to buy his loyalty. It didn't have to. He is true to his nation of birth. Isn't that something we should applaud???

Manu got hurt during the regular season in San Antonio. So should the Argentines say that he shouldn't have played so hard for the Spurs because he had the Olympics coming up? C'mon guys. Country is bigger than salaries or nba seasons.

Buck Harvey has really sunk to a new low. I wasn't certain that was possible.

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Excellent post.

What do you think would the the reaction at the average company if an employee disregarded the wishes of management and did something that cause him to miss considerable work time? They'd be fired.

I always thought Manu was smart, but he must not have been paying attention for the last 6 years. You defy Pop at your absolute peril. I'm guessing he just went off the untouchable list. They won't just move him, but I think if the right deal for a really good young player comes along, he's history. I don't think that would have been the case before this summer.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Lame article :td

We don't even know how serious is Manu's injury and Harvey is writing an article like he has a career ending injury. :rolleyes

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The fact is that these type of injuries can become chronic if they are severe and the weakened ankle is liable to be reinjured more easily every time stress is put on it.

Have we seen this over the years with Manu's left ankle. Yes we have.

That being said, you ride on the horse that brung you. Forget about all that Manu brings to the table when he is healthy and you are left with the unappetizing fact that an oft injured Manu is not great trade bait for a player with similar abilities.

How many of you have scoffed at the Rockets Yao and T-Mac for being useless because they have a history of injuries?

manu would almost fit perfectly with the rockets
always hurt

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Originally Posted by T Park

Great job Ginobili.... The epitome of selfish.

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I have read some stupid shit coming from you over the years, but this one wins the gold medal.

You can hang it around your neck and wear it proudly :rolleyes

First of all, I'd never trade Manu. That is just crazy talk. No team is going to give you a player close to as good. You trade Manu now and you'd be lucky to get 60 cents on the dollar. More importantly, he's an amazing player combined with the perfect mental makeup to be a Spur. I wouldn't even trade him if they Spurs got a player of the same skill level due to the intangibles he brings ... much less selling him low like the Spurs would be doing.

Secondly, it's both dumb and pretty unfair to have expected him not to play for Argentina. I never thought for one second he'd rest this summer. Argentina basketball is the thing he'll remember most fondly after he retires from the game. You can't tell him not to play in the Olympics and not to defend his gold medal. In a perfect world, of course we'd hope that he spent the summer in a jacuzzi getting a foot massage for three and a half months but that is unrealistic. The only thing the Spurs could do was hope he didn't get hurt. Unfortunately he did.

Now the best thing to do is just deal with it and move on. Do what needs to be done to have him healthy by the playoffs. The regular season doesn't matter -- as we saw last year. Ginobili was SuperManu last year in the regular season but burning him out in March ended the Spurs' season. If he needs surgery or months upon months of rest, do it. It may be tough to make the playoffs with a limited Manu but it's impossible to win a championship with a limited Manu, so hope TD and TP carry the Spurs during the regular season.

I do think this injury is pretty damn serious. For him to sit out against the United States (and it sounds like the bronze medal game, too), he must have really F'ed it up. In 2002, he played on a decimated ankle. During the playoffs he played. I think he'd put up with more pain during the Olympics than he would during the playoffs just because the Olympics is one-and-done while the playoffs is a grind. If he doesn't play in the bronze medal game, I'm guessing there is something really wrong and he's going to need time to recuperate.

Overall, I'm not pissed at Manu or the Spurs for how this was handled. Everything went how it was going to go. The Spurs had to caution Manu but Manu had to ultimately play. If I'm mad at anything regarding Manu, it isn't the Olympics ... it'd be not coming ready to play in Game 1 against the Lakers. I don't know if his head was in Beijing back then or what but his lack of focus that game was something I've never seen out of him. He even admitted after the game that he wasn't ready to play. Watching the tape recently, he played like his brain was somewhere else. If I'm the Spurs, I get him the medical help he needs but I also demand that he now gives his full concentration to the Spurs. His Argentina national team time should be over. This has to be the end of that road. Now it is Spurs for the rest of his career.

The scary thing is that when Manu was around 27 and 28 years old, a lot of Spurs fans said that Manu plays so hard and so reckless that he'll be broken down by age 31 or 32. Well now he's 31. I'm sincerely hoping he has more gas left in the tank. I personally think he does but that he and the Spurs have to be smart about it. The Spurs can't have him carry the team during the regular season and Manu can't sacrifice his body in games that don't matter. If it takes playing him 20 to 24 minutes and skipping back-to-back games in the regular season to have him fresh by the playoffs, that's what needs to happen. Healthy Manu plus TD and TP in the playoffs is a team that has great championship potential. Hobbled Manu ends the Spurs chances.

Bottomline is this sucks but there is no reason to rush to judgment or sell Manu when his value is low. Get him healthy, figure out how to keep him healthy for the playoffs and go try to win championship number five.

:clap:clap:clap @ timvp

He will be fine just because this guy is a warrior among all the warriorers.Just be cool Spurs fans.I talked to him after the game he told me he will just be fine before the regular season started.

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If I'm the Spurs, I get him the medical help he needs but I also demand that he now gives his full concentration to the Spurs. His Argentina national team time should be over. This has to be the end of that road. Now it is Spurs for the rest of his career.

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This is what I was thinking, even before the Olympics started. And I'm sure Manu was thinking this too. He already skiped the Olympics qualifiers. I'm sure this is the end of his NT career.

Trade Manu for Beno

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Originally Posted by smeagol

This is what I was thinking, even before the Olympics started. And I'm sure Manu was thinking this too. He already skiped the Olympics qualifiers. I'm sure this is the end of his NT career.

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I would think huh

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Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded

Trade Manu for Beno

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trade manu for a healthy ?

I have already said most of the same things Timvp, I just hate that the Spurs have pretty much the only superstar in the league that you can not play starters minutes or amount of games. It puts so much pressure on other players and almost gives you the mindset that he is fragile.

Like if you think you are going to get hurt, you will type deal. But you do not trade him unless it is a top tier player (Howard, Lebron, ...) which is not happening.

Manu for Monta Ellis.

Just kidding.:lol

I'm sorry, I can't agree with he should've been allowed to play.

You put a significant investment into him, you rely on him very heavily as a franchise, that means hes an employee who should respect your wishes when it comes to offseason endeavors.

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I have read some stupid shit coming from you over the years, but this one wins the gold medal.

You can hang it around your neck and wear it proudly

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If insulting me makes you feel better, whatever.

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Originally Posted by The Franchise

Manu for Monta Ellis.

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No way. The only way you trade Ginobili is if you get a no brainer, home run deal. Monta is the kind of deal the Spurs would get for Manu that would be getting lower value than he is worth. That is the perfect example of an offer the Spurs would get that they should say hell no to.

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Originally Posted by The Franchise

Manu for Monta Ellis.

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Throw in Stephen Jackson and you've got a deal.

Oh yes i loved the whole idea that "Manu is playing for his country and the hell with the Spurs, some things are more important than money"

Right easy as hell to say when you get paid healthy or injured. Manu never should have done this. Anyone who encouraged him to play in the Olympics in my opinion was wrong. We all saw how hurt he was in the playoffs. Man was out there hobbling around on one foot and letting scrub defenders shut him down. Now he gets hurt again, same ankle injury that plagued him last year and in the playoffs. Who knows what shape he will come into camp like?? What a horrific decision Manu made this Summer.

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Originally Posted by The Franchise

Just kidding.:lol

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Damn it! Well thanks for giving me an example to use!

Manu could have just as easily done what he did to that ankle practicing in a gym somewhere, as playing in the Olympics.

I actually do not think it is as drastic an injury as people think. I believe the Spurs got to him to keep him from playing on it.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Now the best thing to do is just deal with it and move on. Do what needs to be done to have him healthy by the playoffs.

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timvp with the voice of reason.

It is what it is and all the bitching and whining and he-shouldn't-have-played won't change it. I hope it's not too serious, and I hope he recovers completely. It's a shame he got hurt but there's not much else to do but wait it out.

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I believe the Spurs got to him to keep him from playing on it.

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:lol

With all the leverage they have -- oh, that's right -- they have none.

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Originally Posted by ploto

Manu could have just as easily done what he did to that ankle practicing in a gym somewhere, as playing in the Olympics.

I actually do not think it is as drastic an injury as people think. I believe the Spurs got to him to keep him from playing on it.

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He didn't land on anyone, he didn't step on anyone, he just cut and passed the ball. I'd say his ankle is pretty fucked up right about now.

I think it's a good thing that Manu wanted to play for Argentina. The only problem I have is he should have been totally healthy. If the ankle wasn't healthy he shouldn't have played. Most people that are defending it will do a 180 if it turns out to be serious, and fucks up the Spurs season.

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Originally Posted by ploto

Manu could have just as easily done what he did to that ankle practicing in a gym somewhere, as playing in the Olympics.

I actually do not think it is as drastic an injury as people think. I believe the Spurs got to him to keep him from playing on it.

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Yeah he could. But had he done what the Spurs said to do, rest for a couple months, rehab, the do some workouts, he probobly would've improved by now.

But no, Manu is a doctor.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Damn it! Well thanks for giving me an example to use!

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Try this one

Joe Johnson (ATL)
for
Manu Ginobili, Matt Bonner

(Bonner is there to make the salary cap stuff work)
The salaries work. Does ATL do it? Does SAS do it? Picks from Either side?

Manu is better than Johnson per minute. Johnson plays more minutes. Manu is a better leader and more clutch.

People on here take the Spurs way to seriously, they value them to high. No one has a right to criticize him since no one here knows what it's like to be a part of select few to represent your country in the O's.

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Originally Posted by Ronaldo McDonald

People on here take the Spurs way to seriously, they value them to high. No one has a right to criticize him since no one here knows what it's like to be a part of select few to represent your country in the O's.

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Would you say that if you were paying him 10 mil a year?:lol

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Originally Posted by pad300

Try this one

Joe Johnson (ATL)
for
Manu Ginobili, Matt Bonner

(Bonner is there to make the salary cap stuff work)
The salaries work. Does ATL do it? Does SAS do it? Picks from Either side?

Manu is better than Johnson per minute. Johnson plays more minutes. Manu is a better leader and more clutch.

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That is pretty close to fair value, considering Joe is much younger. He is not the competitor that Manu is but the fact that he would be playing primarily shooting guard is a bonus because he is more productive when he does not have to play point guard. I do not think Atlanta does that or the Spurs, but if we had to trade Manu, I would not be upset at the return we got for him.

Everyone's turning on Manu all of a sudden. You have to understand that the things that helped the Spurs win three championships are the same things that made him want to play for his country. You have to take the good with the bad.

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Originally Posted by The Franchise

Would you say that if you were paying him 10 mil a year?:lol

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Like I said before, the Spurs knew what they were getting in him. The knew they'd have to hold their breath.

The Spurs knew what they were getting when they inked Manu. There are no surprises, just hope that he is ok and that he is not traded for nothing comparable in return, if at all.

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Originally Posted by T Park

Yeah he could. But had he done what the Spurs said to do, rest for a couple months, rehab, the do some workouts, he probobly would've improved by now.

But no, Manu is a doctor.

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You realize Manu didn't diagnosis himself as ready to play, right? He was evaluated by doctors.

I just can't help but shake my head in disbelief at this crap.

Manu is injured again. The guy is going to be the next Grant Hill the way he is pushing himself. And as he ages the arthritis and the recovery times will just get worse. I can't blame him for pushing himself. The guy is a hell of a competitor, it's just that perhaps if he had made better choices earlier, if he would have shut it down for the months after he first started injuring that ankle, he might have a few more rings and possibly a shot at another medal...

Every time the tendons get inflamed, his arthritis will get worse. I have to hope that they can do something with surgery soon, so that they can stabilize the entire ankle before he even thinks about standing up without an air-cast...If not surgery, he needs to shut it down for the next 3-6 months....

It's too bad that the rest of his career looks like it might be plagued by the constant worry of re-injury and a nagging lack of explosiveness. I wonder if after this we will ever see a consistent super Manu ever again?

It's not a question of representing your country.

Manu wasn't healthy going into the Olympics and he KNEW it. He willingly risked further damage by playing and that is not right at all. I'd be pissed as hell at him if he were on the Lakers.

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Originally Posted by TheMadHatter

It's not a question of representing your country.

Manu wasn't healthy going into the Olympics and he KNEW it. He willingly risked further damage by playing and that is not right at all. I'd be pissed as hell at him if he were on the Lakers.

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It was his decision. Right or wrong (we will never agree).
Knowing Manu, he won't regret it.

Now it's Spurs management's call.

Trade him or keep him.
I don't care anymore.

One other point to make is that if Kobe showed the slightest sign of needing to shut it down the US team would and could shut him down. The US team, for all that Kobe brings to the table for them, would not risk losing access to NBA stars if a player of Kobe needed to shut it down and couldn't. And the US team could suffer the absence of Kobe or any of it's stars without missing a beat.

Manu has every right to play for his country. This meant far more for his team and teammates than sitting out. If it costs him this season, it's more than worth it.

It's the Spurs' fault for not building a bench to sop around these problems.

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Originally Posted by timvp

If he needs surgery or months upon months of rest, do it. It may be tough to make the playoffs with a limited Manu but it's impossible to win a championship with a limited Manu, so hope TD and TP carry the Spurs during the regular season.

...

The scary thing is that when Manu was around 27 and 28 years old, a lot of Spurs fans said that Manu plays so hard and so reckless that he'll be broken down by age 31 or 32. Well now he's 31. I'm sincerely hoping he has more gas left in the tank. I personally think he does but that he and the Spurs have to be smart about it.

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I feel this is the key to the next few years as a whole, and the injury from this morning's game was a symptom, not a cause.

Ginobili is more likely than not to be past his prime. Whether that's because of the burnout of playing so much and so hard, injuries, or time catching up to a player on the wrong side of 30, that's the situation. He's a jumpshooter now, it happens to everyone when they lose their athleticism. Maybe it'll come back in stretches, but it's done. He'll heave up more and more three-pointers, the Spurs will be easier to stop. He'll also have more and more turnovers as his attempts to drive without being capable of the moves he pulled 3-5 years ago will be easier and easier to defend.

He probably is 'limited Manu' now, based on age and wear and tear. And the Spurs aren't talented enough to win a title with 'limited Manu' unless bad things happen to other teams.

Can't really trade him, nothing the Spurs get in return can make them better.

The Spurs have had their opportunities to add talent over the years to try to alleviate some of the pressure but wasted it (Including he who's name must not be spoken).

They've done nothing this off-season to change that either, other than adding Udoka 2.0 in Roger Mason and keeping obstacles in place to guarantee that Mahinmi won't be a difference maker. Getting boned by Splitter didn't help.

It's a shame, but "it is what it is".

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Originally Posted by timvp

Overall, I'm not pissed at Manu or the Spurs for how this was handled. Everything went how it was going to go. The Spurs had to caution Manu but Manu had to ultimately play. If I'm mad at anything regarding Manu, it isn't the Olympics ... it'd be not coming ready to play in Game 1 against the Lakers. I don't know if his head was in Beijing back then or what but his lack of focus that game was something I've never seen out of him. He even admitted after the game that he wasn't ready to play. Watching the tape recently, he played like his brain was somewhere else. If I'm the Spurs, I get him the medical help he needs but I also demand that he now gives his full concentration to the Spurs. His Argentina national team time should be over. This has to be the end of that road. Now it is Spurs for the rest of his career.

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I think forcing a Game 7, and winning Game 7 in NO, cost him a lot mentally and physically. He was drained and probably had a mental meltdown that sometimes happens when you come from a high.

I hope he will be healthy. That said, he's probably going to restyle his game again with more jumpshots than wacky drives. He already showed improvement in his midrange jumper last season.

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Originally Posted by carina_gino20

I think forcing a Game 7, and winning Game 7 in NO, cost him a lot mentally and physically. He was drained and probably had a mental meltdown that sometimes happens when you come from a high.

I hope he will be healthy. That said, he's probably going to restyle his game again with more jumpshots than wacky drives. He already showed improvement in his midrange jumper last season.

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Oh God no...sounds like he's turning into Vinny Del Negro! :depressed

The same reason some of you are mad at Manu is also the same reason you love him on the Spurs. Doug Collins actually said something insightful today by quoting Pop. I think the line was Ginobili may be more of a competitor than he is talented.

If Manu took off the Olympics, you might as well call him Ted because it wouldn't be Manu. He's crazy, fearless, and he'll do anything to win. Manu was never going to have the polish of Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant - he comes with a lot of good and a little bit of bad. It's just part of what you get with Manu. Playing in the Olympics wasn't a heady decision if you were taking a standardized test essay, but it was something Manu had to do.

The Spurs knew what they were getting when they inked him to that $50m deal.