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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
Oh yes i loved the whole idea that "Manu is playing for his country and the hell with the Spurs, some things are more important than money"
Right easy as hell to say when you get paid healthy or injured. Manu never should have done this. Anyone who encouraged him to play in the Olympics in my opinion was wrong. We all saw how hurt he was in the playoffs. Man was out there hobbling around on one foot and letting scrub defenders shut him down. Now he gets hurt again, same ankle injury that plagued him last year and in the playoffs. Who knows what shape he will come into camp like?? What a horrific decision Manu made this Summer.
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Franchise
Just kidding.:lol
Damn it! Well thanks for giving me an example to use!
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
Manu could have just as easily done what he did to that ankle practicing in a gym somewhere, as playing in the Olympics.
I actually do not think it is as drastic an injury as people think. I believe the Spurs got to him to keep him from playing on it.
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Now the best thing to do is just deal with it and move on. Do what needs to be done to have him healthy by the playoffs.
timvp with the voice of reason.
It is what it is and all the bitching and whining and he-shouldn't-have-played won't change it. I hope it's not too serious, and I hope he recovers completely. It's a shame he got hurt but there's not much else to do but wait it out.
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
Quote:
I believe the Spurs got to him to keep him from playing on it.
:lol
With all the leverage they have -- oh, that's right -- they have none.
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ploto
Manu could have just as easily done what he did to that ankle practicing in a gym somewhere, as playing in the Olympics.
I actually do not think it is as drastic an injury as people think. I believe the Spurs got to him to keep him from playing on it.
He didn't land on anyone, he didn't step on anyone, he just cut and passed the ball. I'd say his ankle is pretty fucked up right about now.
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
I think it's a good thing that Manu wanted to play for Argentina. The only problem I have is he should have been totally healthy. If the ankle wasn't healthy he shouldn't have played. Most people that are defending it will do a 180 if it turns out to be serious, and fucks up the Spurs season.
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ploto
Manu could have just as easily done what he did to that ankle practicing in a gym somewhere, as playing in the Olympics.
I actually do not think it is as drastic an injury as people think. I believe the Spurs got to him to keep him from playing on it.
Yeah he could. But had he done what the Spurs said to do, rest for a couple months, rehab, the do some workouts, he probobly would've improved by now.
But no, Manu is a doctor.
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DPG21920
Damn it! Well thanks for giving me an example to use!
Try this one
Joe Johnson (ATL)
for
Manu Ginobili, Matt Bonner
(Bonner is there to make the salary cap stuff work)
The salaries work. Does ATL do it? Does SAS do it? Picks from Either side?
Manu is better than Johnson per minute. Johnson plays more minutes. Manu is a better leader and more clutch.
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
People on here take the Spurs way to seriously, they value them to high. No one has a right to criticize him since no one here knows what it's like to be a part of select few to represent your country in the O's.
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ronaldo McDonald
People on here take the Spurs way to seriously, they value them to high. No one has a right to criticize him since no one here knows what it's like to be a part of select few to represent your country in the O's.
Would you say that if you were paying him 10 mil a year?:lol
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pad300
Try this one
Joe Johnson (ATL)
for
Manu Ginobili, Matt Bonner
(Bonner is there to make the salary cap stuff work)
The salaries work. Does ATL do it? Does SAS do it? Picks from Either side?
Manu is better than Johnson per minute. Johnson plays more minutes. Manu is a better leader and more clutch.
That is pretty close to fair value, considering Joe is much younger. He is not the competitor that Manu is but the fact that he would be playing primarily shooting guard is a bonus because he is more productive when he does not have to play point guard. I do not think Atlanta does that or the Spurs, but if we had to trade Manu, I would not be upset at the return we got for him.
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
Everyone's turning on Manu all of a sudden. You have to understand that the things that helped the Spurs win three championships are the same things that made him want to play for his country. You have to take the good with the bad.
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
The Franchise
Would you say that if you were paying him 10 mil a year?:lol
Like I said before, the Spurs knew what they were getting in him. The knew they'd have to hold their breath.
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
The Spurs knew what they were getting when they inked Manu. There are no surprises, just hope that he is ok and that he is not traded for nothing comparable in return, if at all.
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
T Park
Yeah he could. But had he done what the Spurs said to do, rest for a couple months, rehab, the do some workouts, he probobly would've improved by now.
But no, Manu is a doctor.
You realize Manu didn't diagnosis himself as ready to play, right? He was evaluated by doctors.
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
I just can't help but shake my head in disbelief at this crap.
Manu is injured again. The guy is going to be the next Grant Hill the way he is pushing himself. And as he ages the arthritis and the recovery times will just get worse. I can't blame him for pushing himself. The guy is a hell of a competitor, it's just that perhaps if he had made better choices earlier, if he would have shut it down for the months after he first started injuring that ankle, he might have a few more rings and possibly a shot at another medal...
Every time the tendons get inflamed, his arthritis will get worse. I have to hope that they can do something with surgery soon, so that they can stabilize the entire ankle before he even thinks about standing up without an air-cast...If not surgery, he needs to shut it down for the next 3-6 months....
It's too bad that the rest of his career looks like it might be plagued by the constant worry of re-injury and a nagging lack of explosiveness. I wonder if after this we will ever see a consistent super Manu ever again?
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
It's not a question of representing your country.
Manu wasn't healthy going into the Olympics and he KNEW it. He willingly risked further damage by playing and that is not right at all. I'd be pissed as hell at him if he were on the Lakers.
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TheMadHatter
It's not a question of representing your country.
Manu wasn't healthy going into the Olympics and he KNEW it. He willingly risked further damage by playing and that is not right at all. I'd be pissed as hell at him if he were on the Lakers.
It was his decision. Right or wrong (we will never agree).
Knowing Manu, he won't regret it.
Now it's Spurs management's call.
Trade him or keep him.
I don't care anymore.
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
One other point to make is that if Kobe showed the slightest sign of needing to shut it down the US team would and could shut him down. The US team, for all that Kobe brings to the table for them, would not risk losing access to NBA stars if a player of Kobe needed to shut it down and couldn't. And the US team could suffer the absence of Kobe or any of it's stars without missing a beat.
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
Manu has every right to play for his country. This meant far more for his team and teammates than sitting out. If it costs him this season, it's more than worth it.
It's the Spurs' fault for not building a bench to sop around these problems.
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
timvp
If he needs surgery or months upon months of rest, do it. It may be tough to make the playoffs with a limited Manu but it's impossible to win a championship with a limited Manu, so hope TD and TP carry the Spurs during the regular season.
...
The scary thing is that when Manu was around 27 and 28 years old, a lot of Spurs fans said that Manu plays so hard and so reckless that he'll be broken down by age 31 or 32. Well now he's 31. I'm sincerely hoping he has more gas left in the tank. I personally think he does but that he and the Spurs have to be smart about it.
I feel this is the key to the next few years as a whole, and the injury from this morning's game was a symptom, not a cause.
Ginobili is more likely than not to be past his prime. Whether that's because of the burnout of playing so much and so hard, injuries, or time catching up to a player on the wrong side of 30, that's the situation. He's a jumpshooter now, it happens to everyone when they lose their athleticism. Maybe it'll come back in stretches, but it's done. He'll heave up more and more three-pointers, the Spurs will be easier to stop. He'll also have more and more turnovers as his attempts to drive without being capable of the moves he pulled 3-5 years ago will be easier and easier to defend.
He probably is 'limited Manu' now, based on age and wear and tear. And the Spurs aren't talented enough to win a title with 'limited Manu' unless bad things happen to other teams.
Can't really trade him, nothing the Spurs get in return can make them better.
The Spurs have had their opportunities to add talent over the years to try to alleviate some of the pressure but wasted it (Including he who's name must not be spoken).
They've done nothing this off-season to change that either, other than adding Udoka 2.0 in Roger Mason and keeping obstacles in place to guarantee that Mahinmi won't be a difference maker. Getting boned by Splitter didn't help.
It's a shame, but "it is what it is".
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
timvp
Overall, I'm not pissed at Manu or the Spurs for how this was handled. Everything went how it was going to go. The Spurs had to caution Manu but Manu had to ultimately play. If I'm mad at anything regarding Manu, it isn't the Olympics ... it'd be not coming ready to play in Game 1 against the Lakers. I don't know if his head was in Beijing back then or what but his lack of focus that game was something I've never seen out of him. He even admitted after the game that he wasn't ready to play. Watching the tape recently, he played like his brain was somewhere else. If I'm the Spurs, I get him the medical help he needs but I also demand that he now gives his full concentration to the Spurs. His Argentina national team time should be over. This has to be the end of that road. Now it is Spurs for the rest of his career.
I think forcing a Game 7, and winning Game 7 in NO, cost him a lot mentally and physically. He was drained and probably had a mental meltdown that sometimes happens when you come from a high.
I hope he will be healthy. That said, he's probably going to restyle his game again with more jumpshots than wacky drives. He already showed improvement in his midrange jumper last season.
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
carina_gino20
I think forcing a Game 7, and winning Game 7 in NO, cost him a lot mentally and physically. He was drained and probably had a mental meltdown that sometimes happens when you come from a high.
I hope he will be healthy. That said, he's probably going to restyle his game again with more jumpshots than wacky drives. He already showed improvement in his midrange jumper last season.
Oh God no...sounds like he's turning into Vinny Del Negro! :depressed
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Re: Buck Harvey: Ginobili goes down — how long until he goes?
The same reason some of you are mad at Manu is also the same reason you love him on the Spurs. Doug Collins actually said something insightful today by quoting Pop. I think the line was Ginobili may be more of a competitor than he is talented.
If Manu took off the Olympics, you might as well call him Ted because it wouldn't be Manu. He's crazy, fearless, and he'll do anything to win. Manu was never going to have the polish of Michael Jordan or Kobe Bryant - he comes with a lot of good and a little bit of bad. It's just part of what you get with Manu. Playing in the Olympics wasn't a heady decision if you were taking a standardized test essay, but it was something Manu had to do.
The Spurs knew what they were getting when they inked him to that $50m deal.
