Spot Number 11 - Top 50 Spurs

SpursTalk's Top 50 Spurs
1. Tim Duncan
2. David Robinson
3. George Gervin
4. Gregg Popovich
5. Angelo Drossos
6. Manu Ginobili
7. Tony Parker
8. Sean Elliott
9. James Silas
10. Bruce Bowen

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To pass the time until the start of preseason, let's see how SpursTalk.com ranks the Top 50 Spurs. Those eligible for the list include all players, coaches and owners. I don't want to define "top" too narrowly, but I think the best way to do it would be to think of the list as a list of the 50 most influential people who have helped make the Spurs one of the most successful franchises in the history of sport.

For more information on what we are doing, check out this thread.

In this thread, we will vote for spot number 11. Please place your vote. If you will, also explain in this thread why you voted how you did.

Thanks.



P.S.

Poll options listed in alphabetical order. If you want to vote for someone not on the list, post in the thread and I'll add the person.

Voting will end 2AM CST Wednesday morning.

Please vote only once.

Gilmore

I went with Larry Kenon.

I'm leaning toward voting for Avery Johnson. His impact on the 1999 championship can't be understated. He's the all-time franchise leader in assists.

I'll go to bat more for AJ tomorrow but I'm pretty confident in this pick.

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Originally Posted by timvp

I'm leaning toward voting for Avery Johnson. His impact on the 1999 championship can't be understated. He's the all-time franchise leader in assists.

I'll go to bat more for AJ tomorrow but I'm pretty confident in this pick.

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dude you serious?

i prefer mario elie though....

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Originally Posted by TDMVPDPOY

dude you serious?

i prefer mario elie though....

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AJ's impact to the franchise is much more evident

Elie was one of the mental leader during the 1999 championship, as was AJ.


He (Johnson) played more then 7 seasons in spurs uniform while Elie just two.

Ellie's going to be lucky to brack the top 25

Kennon or AJ. Its tough for me and I currently hate AJ.

I voted for the A-Train!

http://www.nba.com/history/players/gilmore_bio.html

Kenon vs. Gilmore stat comparison would be interesting.

One thing that clinched me going with AJ over Kenon was the fact that the Spurs were better the year before Kenon arrived and the year after Kenon left. That doesn't say much for Kenon to help a team beyond his stats.

AJ over Kenon is like Barbosa over Manu. Kenon who single handedly led Memphis State to the NCAA championship game. Who does have an ABA championship to his resume. Who played for the Spurs at near the tail end of his career and still averaged 20 and 10. They made the playoffs all but one of his years, so what if they lost to the eventual champions a couple of times.

That's my case. Kenon by a mile. AJ ahead of Kenon makes this a non basketball related thread.

Alvin Robertson

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

Alvin Robertson

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He's a good pick. I would go Kenon at 11, Gilmore at 12, and then Alvin at 13. AJ would come in at about 15 or so.

Holt.

Without him we're very likely discussing the New Orleans Spurs.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

AJ over Kenon is like Barbosa over Manu.

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:huh

Not anywhere close to a similar comparison.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

Kenon who single handedly led Memphis State to the NCAA championship game. Who does have an ABA championship to his resume.

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Since when are we counting what players did at other stops? If that's the case, I'm voting for Moses Malone or Dominique Wilkins.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

Who played for the Spurs at near the tail end of his career and still averaged 20 and 10.

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What? :lol

Tail end of his career? Kenon arrived in San Antonio when he was 23 and left when he was 27. Try again.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

They made the playoffs all but one of his years, so what if they lost to the eventual champions a couple of times.

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Again, the Spurs were better the year before Kenon arrived than the year he arrived. And they were better the year after Kenon left than his final season in SA. Great numbers and I've already called him the most underrated player in Spurs history stat-wise ... but there is a reason his number isn't retired and there is a reason why the Spurs proved to be better without him.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

That's my case. Kenon by a mile. AJ ahead of Kenon makes this a non basketball related thread.

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Saying Kenon came to San Antonio at the tail end of his career shows how much you know about Kenon. And I realize Spurs fans have gotten crybaby about AJ because he coached the Mavs but AJ was the player-coach behind the 1999 championship. Pop even admits that AJ did more to coach that team.

I realize it is an uphill climb to get AJ on this list because either modern day Spurs fans weren't Spurs fans in '99 or started hating him when he coached the Mavs but AJ was greatly important to the Spurs in terms of going from a team that won a lot of games to a team that actually won a championship. Any Spurs player or coach of that era will tell you the same.

Gotta go Kenon over AJ

Robert Horry- for 2005.

It was a close call between him and Malik.


Now it comes down picking my favorite people on the ballot.

For me, all the obvious standouts (from purely a basketball standpoint) have already been ranked.

Boo- I should have voted Kenon to keep him ahead of Avery.

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Originally Posted by angel_luv

Robert Horry- for 2005.

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AJ hater.

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Originally Posted by remingtonbo2001

AJ hater.

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I don't hate A.J.

It is just that ever since he became coach of the Mavericks, I want nothing more than to see AJ lose.

I love to see him lose. :lol

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Originally Posted by angel_luv

I love to see him lose. :lol

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AJ hater.

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Originally Posted by timvp

:huh

Not anywhere close to a similar comparison.

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talent wise it's even worse.

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Since when are we counting what players did at other stops? If that's the case, I'm voting for Moses Malone or Dominique Wilkins.

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The insinuation by some, maybe not you, is that Larry is not a winner when in fact he was part of many winning teams including the Spurs. I think you're splitting hairs with the differnces between the success he had with the spurs compared to the years before and after.

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What? :lol

Tail end of his career? Kenon arrived in San Antonio when he was 23 and left when he was 27. Try again.

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first off, being 30 back then is like 36 now a days.

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Again, the Spurs were better the year before Kenon arrived than the year he arrived. And they were better the year after Kenon left than his final season in SA. Great numbers and I've already called him the most underrated player in Spurs history stat-wise ... but there is a reason his number isn't retired and there is a reason why the Spurs proved to be better without him.

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So you are blaming him. Please explain why you blame him? What did he do as compared to the rest of the team and coaches that made him responsible for the slight differences?

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Saying Kenon came to San Antonio at the tail end of his career shows how much you know about Kenon.

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maybe not the tail end, but when he left he was close to being done from what I remember, but if you have looked it up I stand corrected.

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And I realize Spurs fans have gotten crybaby about AJ because he coached the Mavs but AJ was the player-coach behind the 1999 championship. Pop even admits that AJ did more to coach that team.

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Pop was brutal as a coach early on. I loved Avery as a player and leader, but truth is he wasn't that talented. A team with Young Timmy and good DRob and all the other talent they had was bound to be successful. In fact, they win with Terry Porter at the helm that year.

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I realize it is an uphill climb to get AJ on this list because either modern day Spurs fans weren't Spurs fans in '99 or started hating him when he coached the Mavs but AJ was greatly important to the Spurs in terms of going from a team that won a lot of games to a team that actually won a championship.

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Ah.. No the luck of the ping pong balls had way more to do with it.

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Any Spurs player or coach of that era will tell you the same.

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Avery's cred got him the job, so I'm aware of what people thought of him. I'm also aware that he didn't leave on the best of terms and he turned out to be a puss in Dallas with all that whining. Since Avery needs to get in based on more than his ability to play basketball, those dinks against his reputation do count.

I hate the pick of AJ at 11, but oh well.

I will continue to vote for Rob till he gets in.

Peter Holt. Great owner who doesn't dick with his team like Cuban but leaves the job to the professionals he has hired.

Anyone who was a fan of the Spurs in the early 80's would vote for Johnny Moore over Larry Kenon if the true basis for the top 50 is to be "influential" to the franchise. If not for the desert fever, Moore would hold all of the point guard records in San Antonio.

If you played playground hoop in San Antonio kids always pretended to be George Gervin, and there were a lot of Jimmy Si's out there, but there were just as many kids pretending to be Johnny Moore. Kids didn't go out and emulate Larry Kenon because he just wasn't very endearing to fans. Of course, I was alway Edgar Jones, but hey, we all have our heroes.

Johnny Moore is my vote.

:lol @ people voting for R.C. Buford.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

talent wise it's even worse.

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Which is why the Barbosa and Ginobili comparison doesn't make sense. Ginobili and Barbosa are probably similarly talented but Ginobili is twenty times better due to being smarter, tougher and more fearless.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

first off, being 30 back then is like 36 now a days.

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You said he came to the Spurs at the tail end of his career. He was 22 when the Spurs traded for him.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

So you are blaming him. Please explain why you blame him? What did he do as compared to the rest of the team and coaches that made him responsible for the slight differences?

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I don't really blame him but if he were such a great player, you'd think he'd have an impact on winning and losing.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

Pop was brutal as a coach early on. I loved Avery as a player and leader, but truth is he wasn't that talented. A team with Young Timmy and good DRob and all the other talent they had was bound to be successful. In fact, they win with Terry Porter at the helm that year.

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I don't think much about 2001 can be considered a "win". Unless you liked the Spurs getting blown out by 50 in the WCF :)

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

Avery's cred got him the job, so I'm aware of what people thought of him. I'm also aware that he didn't leave on the best of terms and he turned out to be a puss in Dallas with all that whining. Since Avery needs to get in based on more than his ability to play basketball, those dinks against his reputation do count.

I hate the pick of AJ at 11, but oh well.

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AJ was not very talented on the basketball court but he got the most out of his ability. Plus he was the team leader for damn near a decade when the Spurs were revving up this streak of winning. My AJ vote is more based on his coaching, intangibles and how he added fire to the mix.

AJ wasn't a very good point guard but compared to every other point guard the Spurs had after Rod Strickland and before Tony Parker, he was like Magic Johnson.

I'm voting with ignorance having never seen any of the players I'm considering except for Avery Johnson. But I have to go with Oscar Robertson's resume.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Which is why the Barbosa and Ginobili comparison doesn't make sense. Ginobili and Barbosa are probably similarly talented but Ginobili is twenty times better due to being smarter, tougher and more fearless.

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Production ,especially in key situations, is incomparable between the two.

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You said he came to the Spurs at the tail end of his career. He was 22 when the Spurs traded for him.

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I meant more at the end of his career, but I already admitted I may have misspoke.

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I don't really blame him but if he were such a great player, you'd think he'd have an impact on winning and losing.

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Did AJ have an impact or did Tim Duncan?

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I don't think much about 2001 can be considered a "win". Unless you liked the Spurs getting blown out by 50 in the WCF :)

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apples to apples, Terry Porter on the spurs in '99 wins a title.

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AJ was not very talented on the basketball court but he got the most out of his ability. Plus he was the team leader for damn near a decade when the Spurs were revving up this streak of winning.

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they were the same ole spurs for many of those years until the arrival of Tim.

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My AJ vote is more based on his coaching, intangibles and how he added fire to the mix.

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Great players like Tim, DRob, and Sean can make a servicable person look good. That fire and winning attitude can be attributed more to Mario Ellie IMO. Mario started the steak of clutchiness that a team needs to win big.

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AJ wasn't a very good point guard but compared to every other point guard the Spurs had after Rod Strickland and before Tony Parker, he was like Magic Johnson.

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that's not saying much.

I like AJ, but since most of his cred comes from his personality, I think he has failed miserably in that department the past 5 years. I'm not saying the guy shouldn't be recognized, but to put him ahead of Kenon, Gilmore, and Holt doesn't add up to me.

AJ is should come in at about 15th.

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Originally Posted by IronMexican

I will continue to vote for Rob till he gets in.

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But you didn't.


???

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Originally Posted by Spurminator

I'm voting with ignorance having never seen any of the players I'm considering except for Avery Johnson. But I have to go with Oscar Robertson's resume.

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Oscar had a great career. Good choice.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

Production ,especially in key situations, is incomparable between the two.

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How many championship clinching shots has Barbosa made in his career? How many times in his career did Barbosa outplay the greatest trio of point guards ever assembled? If Barbosa went up against the trio of Kidd, Nash and KJ, he'd be hightailing back to Brazil.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

they were the same ole spurs for many of those years until the arrival of Tim.

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Can't really argue that but if you are going to hold that against AJ, you should have held that against Robinson, Pop and Elliott.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

Great players like Tim, DRob, and Sean can make a servicable person look good. That fire and winning attitude can be attributed more to Mario Ellie IMO. Mario started the steak of clutchiness that a team needs to win big.

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Even if that is true, doesn't AJ deserve some credit for personally recruiting Elie? Elie wasn't a Spurs signing ... he was an AJ signing.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

I like AJ, but since most of his cred comes from his personality, I think he has failed miserably in that department the past 5 years.

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I've never really understood what Spurs fans expected of AJ when he got a head coaching job. Most Spurs fans act like he should have forfeited every game against the Spurs. But AJ *gasp* tried to win and tried to win via every means possible ... like he did for SA.

I guess it wasn't good enough for him to say during his retirement ceremony that no matter where he is in the NBA, he always considers himself a Spur.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

I'm not saying the guy shouldn't be recognized, but to put him ahead of Kenon, Gilmore, and Holt doesn't add up to me.

AJ is should come in at about 15th.

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Many players were better than AJ, however outside of Robinson, Gervin and Duncan I'm not sure many others can claim to have helped build as much of the foundation for the winning we see today as he did. Great talent only takes you so far.

Bottomline is if AJ didn't hold Pop's hand through his first couple years of coaching, Pop doesn't survive. Heck, AJ was the one who went to bat to convince Pop to fire Hill and then went to bat again when Holt was about to hire Doc Rivers as coach.

shit no Love for RC nor Budenholzer... :depressed

Special K

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Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

Oscar had a great career. Good choice.

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Yeah it's amazing that he was able to be such a high level player 20 years after his prime.

:slapforehead

Why didn't Zarko Paspaji make the list? :-(

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Originally Posted by Spurminator

Yeah it's amazing that he was able to be such a high level player 20 years after his prime.

:slapforehead

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He was Robert Horry before Robert Horry was Robert Horry.

malik

Hey Timvp could you at some point add Jay Howard to the list? He isn't in the top 30 but he might fall in place somewhere after that. He was the voice of the Spurs for many of us.

I've voted for Holt. It's hard to compare what a player and a owner has brought to a franchise but Holt has been a damn good owner for years.

Bob Bass folks? people need to learn some history

I think it's time for Swen Nater to be added to the poll list.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

AJ over Kenon is like Barbosa over Manu. Kenon who single handedly led Memphis State to the NCAA championship game. Who does have an ABA championship to his resume. Who played for the Spurs at near the tail end of his career and still averaged 20 and 10.

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Tail end? He played years 3-7 of a nine-year career here.

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That's my case. Kenon by a mile. AJ ahead of Kenon makes this a non basketball related thread.

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If the criteria is influence, Kenon had zero legacy once he left the team. And, unlike AJ, the total was less than the sum of the parts.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

Tail end? He played years 3-7 of a nine-year career here.

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you probably missed several post were I said I may have misspoke, because I was referring to year 7 or 9 (tail end).

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If the criteria is influence, Kenon had zero legacy once he left the team. And, unlike AJ, the total was less than the sum of the parts.

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Not true, he consistenly invited to tributes etc... Addtionally, he became a common member of San Antonio Society and he's made a ton of friends and has been very accessible to people.

As I said before, Larry would be a max type player today and would be the second best player on the team. AJ was never considered the 5th best player, but I'm not trying to down AJ because he was a special player too.

I'm not very familiar with the pre 1990 Spurs players...so I'm going with Horry here.

Kenon gets the spot at #11. Not my personal choice but his numbers were impressive and it is always good to have the old school represented.

:tu