Spot Number 12 - Top 50 Spurs

SpursTalk's Top 50 Spurs
1. Tim Duncan
2. David Robinson
3. George Gervin
4. Gregg Popovich
5. Angelo Drossos
6. Manu Ginobili
7. Tony Parker
8. Sean Elliott
9. James Silas
10. Bruce Bowen
11. Larry Kenon

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To pass the time until the start of preseason, let's see how SpursTalk.com ranks the Top 50 Spurs. Those eligible for the list include all players, coaches and owners. I don't want to define "top" too narrowly, but I think the best way to do it would be to think of the list as a list of the 50 most influential people who have helped make the Spurs one of the most successful franchises in the history of sport.

For more information on what we are doing, check out this thread.

In this thread, we will vote for spot number 12. Please place your vote. If you will, also explain in this thread why you voted how you did.

Thanks.



P.S.

Poll options listed in alphabetical order. If you want to vote for someone not on the list, post in the thread and I'll add the person.

Voting will end 2AM CST Thursday morning.

Please vote only once.

Done :smokin

Do the right thing people.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Why isn't Shane Heal on the list?

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Fixed.

Anyways, I will again go to bat for Avery Johnson. All-time franchise leader in assists. Helped bring San Antonio its first championship. Helped Pop survive his first few years of coaching. Even Peter Holt credits AJ in helping him learn the game.

Not going to argue he's the best player left but I definitely view him as an invaluable piece of the team's history.

malik

Kerr; won more rings than AJ and was the reason the Spurs won in 2003. If you are voting AJ because of assists and one shot, then you should vote Kerr before him.

Clearly no love for woman beaters :rolleyes

Avery's contributions are overrated.

Robertson should be the pick here.

Avery also missed the final shot to give Sprewell a chance for the winning basket. I don't remember Avery having a very good game other than his last basket, that last game against the Knicks.

Not sure who I will vote on here, have to go back and check the career stats but it will be the best overall player and that will not be Avery.

I'm voting for Alvin again. In five seasons with the Spurs he was a 3-time All Star, 5-time All NBA Defense (first team twice), DPOY, and All NBA 2nd Team. The Spurs weren't great during his time here but that's a stout resume.

In fact, it impresses me that he was such an elite defensive player on a bad team. It's rare to find players who put that much effort in of the defensive end when the team isn't winning.

Still no love for Junior.

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Originally Posted by Spurminator

I'm voting for Alvin again. In five seasons with the Spurs he was a 3-time All Star, 5-time All NBA Defense (first team twice), DPOY, and All NBA 2nd Team. The Spurs weren't great during his time here but that's a stout resume.

In fact, it impresses me that he was such an elite defensive player on a bad team. It's rare to find players who put that much effort in of the defensive end when the team isn't winning.

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Exactly. I really believe people forget what an elite defender and underrated overall player Robertson was. It could be his off-the-court issues that plagued him the latter part of his career or the fact that he played on some bad teams. None of that should matter in this assessment.

The guy worked his butt off to become as complete a player as anyone in the league at that time. Scoring, rebounding, passing, running the break, and of course, his trademark defense. Once he improved his shooting ability, he truly became a multiimenisonal player with little to no weaknesses.

The Spurs organization was so committed to him, that by his second year, they elected to trade away beloved franchise icon, George "Iceman" Gervin. By that time, Gervin was in the latter stages of his career and had been benched to give Robertson the starting job. Obviously, this caused a major uproar among fans, but the tension was quickly soothed as Robertson won over the Spurs faithful with his balls-out effort, superior talent and tenacious desire. He and Johnny Moore gave the Spurs one of the best backcourts in the league.

One of the 5 most decorated Spurs of all time. 3-time All-Star (only Gervin, Robinson and Duncan have been to more). Still holds the NBA record for average steals per game 2.71. Defensive Player of the Year in '86. One of four NBA players to ever record the unprecedented quadruple-double. (20pts, 11 rebs, 10 ass, 10 stls). Member of the 1984 U.S. Olympic Gold medal-winning basketball team, that featured Jordan and Ewing.

Had his career not taken an unexpected downturn resulting in a trade to Detroit in 1988, there's no doubt this guy was destined to have his number retired by the Spurs. With these credentials, it's even conceivable that he could've possibly even garnered some consideration for the basketball HOF.

This is why I believe he should, not only get the nod here, but should have been considered a Top-10 Spur of all time - despite the fact that his career was abbreviated.

The good reason I am borrowing in order to be politically correct.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spurminator

I'm voting for Alvin again. In five seasons with the Spurs he was a 3-time All Star, 5-time All NBA Defense (first team twice), DPOY, and All NBA 2nd Team. The Spurs weren't great during his time here but that's a stout resume.

In fact, it impresses me that he was such an elite defensive player on a bad team. It's rare to find players who put that much effort in of the defensive end when the team isn't winning.

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My real reason:

Alvin over Avery.

:lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timvp

Anyways, I will again go to bat for Avery Johnson. All-time franchise leader in assists. Helped bring San Antonio its first championship. Helped Pop survive his first few years of coaching. Even Peter Holt credits AJ in helping him learn the game.

Not going to argue he's the best player left but I definitely view him as an invaluable piece of the team's history.

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An un-orthodox lefty who didn't let his limitations deter him from improving his game. His resolute determination and strong work ethic should be praised. He's been cut several times but never gave up on the NBA. The spurs starting PG for a good part of the 90's who just had his jersey retired . I've voted for him the last 3 polls.

Couple of highlights that are note-worthy aside from the 99 championship.

Was just the fifth player in NBA history to increase his scoring average in each of his first seven seasons, reaching 13.4 points in 1994-95

Named winner of the NBA Sportsmanship Award in 1997-98

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Originally Posted by rascal

Avery also missed the final shot to give Sprewell a chance for the winning basket. I don't remember Avery having a very good game other than his last basket, that last game against the Knicks.

Not sure who I will vote on here, have to go back and check the career stats but it will be the best overall player and that will not be Avery.

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What a hater. The final shot was from about 35 feet after David kicked it out to him to run more time off the clock.

I decided AJ @ 12. If we were going by best player, he'd be a few spots down (where I originally had him ranked). However, his influence on that 99 team is undeniable. I'll just add one other reason why he helped us win in 99: he recruited Mario Elie so that Pop could dump Del Negro's sorry ass. Having a guy who could play physical defense and hit high-pressure shots from the 2-guard spot was such a welcome sight after seeing fucking Del Negro blow playoffs after playoffs. AJ sold Mario hard on our team while working out with him in Houston during the lockout.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

I decided AJ @ 12. If we were going by best player, he'd be a few spots down (where I originally had him ranked). However, his influence on that 99 team is undeniable. I'll just add one other reason why he helped us win in 99: he recruited Mario Elie so that Pop could dump Del Negro's sorry ass. Having a guy who could play physical defense and hit high-pressure shots from the 2-guard spot was such a welcome sight after seeing fucking Del Negro blow playoffs after playoffs. AJ sold Mario hard on our team while working out with him in Houston during the lockout.

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If that is indeed true, I'll bite on that one as a major intangible on the positive side for AJ. In my mind, it was Del Negro's "soft-ass" presence on those "90's Spurs teams (post Rod Strickland), that largely contributed to the why the Spurs were considered playoff push-overs. Thus earning them the label as a "soft" team. Although Robinson got much of the undeserved and unfair criticism. Del Negro was, by far, my least favorite Spur - ever.

I still go Alvin at this spot. :lol

RC>AJ for the Spurs success.. lame the lead he is getting

I'm gonna go with Mario Ellie on this one. I credit him for bringing "IT" to the team and ever since this team hasn't let "IT" go. Without "IT" this team doesn't win 4 trophies.

I will vote for Avery next.

Arkansas Alum and felon, Alvin Robertson gets my vote.

AJ will never get my vote. Ever. I don't know why people tolerate traitors.

Peter Holt. A great hands-off owner.

gotta be RC Buford.

Avery is a traitor!

AJ, a great leader in the 99 team

LMAO @ the AJ's a traitor talk because he coached a rival and complained about fouls. What did any of you expect him to do? Sit it out doing color commentary on Spurs broadcasts for 10 years until Pop retires and the head coaching spot opens?

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

LMAO @ the AJ's a traitor talk because he coached a rival and complained about fouls. What did any of you expect him to do? Sit it out doing color commentary on Spurs broadcasts for 10 years until Pop retires and the head coaching spot opens?

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everybody was pumped he got the gig, but when he started the whining and coplaining about Bruce, it was very unSpurs like. Part of being a Spur is not crying about officiating.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

everybody was pumped he got the gig, but when he started the whining and coplaining about Bruce, it was very unSpurs like. Part of being a Spur is not crying about officiating.

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No, crying about officiating is part of keeping your job when your boss is a whiny bitch like Mark Cuban.

I certainly don't view AJ as a traitor. I just feel his accomplishments and personality traits are being overblown - especially for a player who was a virtual journeyman early in his career. I credit him for developing himself into a good player and becoming a leader on a championship team.

However, his leadership abilities and the whole "man of integrity" status card are hollow. Especially when you consider the fact that he has a penchant for being an abrasive, egotistical, tyrannt.

Need more evidence? Talk to anyone in the Mavs organization about his supposed leadership qualities. How did that turn out?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rascal

Avery also missed the final shot to give Sprewell a chance for the winning basket.

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:rollin

I've seen some lame AJ hate in my day but this takes the cake. AJ shot like a 30-foot one-hander because the shot clock was running out. The rest of the Spurs on the floor were getting ready to celebrate a championship while AJ knew he had to shoot the ball. Him hitting rim made four or five more seconds go off the clock and left the Knicks with barely any time.

I'd say AJ definitely deserves this spot. Decent enough player, great leader, got Elie, helped Pop survive and was a big part of the Spurs first championship.

In fact, during the playoffs that year, I'd say AJ was the third best Spur. It's close with Elliott but at times Elliott was noticeably tired, which turned out to be due to his kidneys. Many don't remember but Elie shot like crap during that whole playoff run. AJ went from the fifth leading scorer during the regular season to the third leading scorer during the playoffs. He also averaged 7.4 assists on top of his points.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CaptMike

Kerr; won more rings than AJ and was the reason the Spurs won in 2003. If you are voting AJ because of assists and one shot, then you should vote Kerr before him.

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I pray to the basketball gods that this is a joke.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by timvp

:rollin

I've seen some lame AJ hate in my day but this takes the cake. AJ shot like a 30-foot one-hander because the shot clock was running out. The rest of the Spurs on the floor were getting ready to celebrate a championship while AJ knew he had to shoot the ball. Him hitting rim made four or five more seconds go off the clock and left the Knicks with barely any time.

I'd say AJ definitely deserves this spot. Decent enough player, great leader, got Elie, helped Pop survive and was a big part of the Spurs first championship.

In fact, during the playoffs that year, I'd say AJ was the third best Spur. It's close with Elliott but at times Elliott was noticeably tired, which turned out to be due to his kidneys. Many don't remember but Elie shot like crap during that whole playoff run. AJ went from the fifth leading scorer during the regular season to the third leading scorer during the playoffs. He also averaged 7.4 assists on top of his points.

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Sean's D on Kobe alone makes him third best. As far as Avery, he was always a very clutch player and played his best in the playoffs.

Lets not forget how well Jaren Jackson played, he could vie for 3rd best:lol

Avery is bound to get one of the top 50 spots. I guess this one is as good any.
At least that way he won't be mentioned thread after thread.

I am satisfied with the top ten list, which is the most important and most memorable.

I will not vote for A.J. though. I can easily find 50 listed that I like better- even if I have to vote for Nazr.

Okay so that last bit is a stretch. But you get my point. :lol

AJ >>> Beno

Fuck the Avery haters.

Still no Swen Nater in the poll.

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Originally Posted by alamo50

Still no Swen Nater in the poll.

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:lol

AJ should have been off the board in one of the top 3 spots. SpursTalk disappointed me by letting him fall this far.

Avery, but Malik is next.

Little General!

avery should get this one :)

Horry!

I'm torn here -- AJ was definitely the on-court leader of that first title team and the heartbeat of the Spurs for about half a decade or so, but he clearly doesn't have a superior statistical resume to someone like Robertson, who toiled in some pretty lean years in San Antonio while keeping the Spurs on the map in many ways during that time.

Mike Mitchell and Artis Gilmore fall into the same boat in many ways.

I'm not a huge Johnny Moore supporter, but he certainly did have his moments -- his 1983 Playoffs were pretty special, statistically (22.5 ppg, 14.6 apg, 53% FT, 53% 3PT, and a 161:38 assist to turnover ratio) -- and might have had more if illness hadn't struck him down. On top of that Moore (and Mitchell) truly did bridge the gap from Gervin to Robinson.

Then there are the non-players who could fit here. Bob Bass needs to be somewhere in the next few spots, I think. Peter Holt and General McDermott deserve to be recognized for their roles in keeping the Spurs viable and viable in San Antonio. And if it weren't for Bob Hill's personality, the Spurs might not have ever gotten the benefits of Pop assuming the head coaching role -- that has to count for something.

Sam Presti is still missing from the list (he's bound to be picked somewhere between Spots 25-30....

after rreading through the forum, p[erhaps i should have voted for alvin also..

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Originally Posted by angelbelow

after rreading through the forum, p[erhaps i should have voted for alvin also..

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I sure wish you would've. I supposed most Spurs fans are new or others have simply forgotten how good a player he was. There was a good deal of lobbying for guys like AJ and Kenon - and rightfully so. However, people forget that Robertson was the Spurs best player, lone all-star, and perennial statistical leader in a variety of categories from 84=88.

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

:lol

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Why are you laughing about a two time all-star while playing in silver and black???

Alvin was a great player on shitty teams. Avery was a shitty player on great teams. Gotta go with Alvin.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

Part of being a Spur is not crying about officiating.

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:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

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Originally Posted by BUMP

:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

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I should have added after the game is over.

Fuck Avery.

He should have been #51.