Spot Number 13 - Top 50 Spurs

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Originally Posted by timvp

Johnny Moore should have been on my list probably. He's the only remaining player not on the list to have his number retired by the Spurs. That has to be considered a big plus in his favor.

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Exactly. I don't understand how people have continued to ignore him. He was a better point guard in his sleep than Avery Johnson ever was. He would be the the all-time assist leader for the franchise, if not for desert fever.

He led the league in assists in 1982, with a 9.6 average. Over guys like Magic Johnson, Mo Cheeks, Tiny Archibald, and Isaiah Thomas. He was second in the league in assists in 1983, 9th in 1984, and 3rd in 1985. He was also in the top 10 in steals during that time. He was arguably one of the best point guards in the league from 1981-1985.

He played 520 games (about two season less that Avery Johnson), and averaged 9.4 points, 7.4 assists, and almost 2 steals per game. In 1985 (maybe the best season by a Spurs point guard ever, including Tony Parker) he averaged 12.8 points, 10 assists, and 2.79 steals in 82 games. In that season he had a near quadruple double with 26 points, 13 assists, 11 rebounds, and 9 assists in a game against Golden State.

He was diagnosed with desert fever the following season, fought to return, which he finally did, but was robbed of the prime of his career. Avery Johnson isn't even in the same league as this guy, and he's already on the board.

Wake up people, know your history and quit ignoring this guy.

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Originally Posted by I Love Me Some Me

Exactly. I don't understand how people have continued to ignore him. He was a better point guard in his sleep than Avery Johnson ever was. He would be the the all-time assist leader for the franchise, if not for desert fever.

He led the league in assists in 1982, with a 9.6 average. Over guys like Magic Johnson, Mo Cheeks, Tiny Archibald, and Isaiah Thomas. He was second in the league in assists in 1983, 9th in 1984, and 3rd in 1985. He was also in the top 10 in steals during that time. He was arguably one of the best point guards in the league from 1981-1985.

He played 520 games (about two season less that Avery Johnson), and averaged 9.4 points, 7.4 assists, and almost 2 steals per game. In 1985 (maybe the best season by a Spurs point guard ever, including Tony Parker) he averaged 12.8 points, 10 assists, and 2.79 steals in 82 games. In that season he had a near quadruple double with 26 points, 13 assists, 11 rebounds, and 9 assists in a game against Golden State.

He was diagnosed with desert fever the following season, fought to return, which he finally did, but was robbed of the prime of his career. Avery Johnson isn't even in the same league as this guy, and he's already on the board.

Wake up people, know your history and quit ignoring this guy.

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Thanks for helping me choose my next pick

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Originally Posted by I Love Me Some Me

Exactly. I don't understand how people have continued to ignore him. He was a better point guard in his sleep than Avery Johnson ever was. He would be the the all-time assist leader for the franchise, if not for desert fever.

He led the league in assists in 1982, with a 9.6 average. Over guys like Magic Johnson, Mo Cheeks, Tiny Archibald, and Isaiah Thomas. He was second in the league in assists in 1983, 9th in 1984, and 3rd in 1985. He was also in the top 10 in steals during that time. He was arguably one of the best point guards in the league from 1981-1985.

He played 520 games (about two season less that Avery Johnson), and averaged 9.4 points, 7.4 assists, and almost 2 steals per game. In 1985 (maybe the best season by a Spurs point guard ever, including Tony Parker) he averaged 12.8 points, 10 assists, and 2.79 steals in 82 games. In that season he had a near quadruple double with 26 points, 13 assists, 11 rebounds, and 9 assists in a game against Golden State.

He was diagnosed with desert fever the following season, fought to return, which he finally did, but was robbed of the prime of his career. Avery Johnson isn't even in the same league as this guy, and he's already on the board.

Wake up people, know your history and quit ignoring this guy.

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It's definitely a reflection of 'what have you done for me lately'.

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Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

Johnny Moore was a fan favorite back in the early 80's. In terms of influence he should be way up the list. I think he's not getting the love he should so far.

ATrain is probably my second choice of the remaining list. When the Spurs acquired him he changed the face of the team. Finally we had a player that people thought would give us a legitimate shot of beating the Showtime Lakers. And there were some great matchups between him and Kareem.

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+1

If my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

Mario Ellie! Before Mario the Spurs were one of the softest most chokingness teams around. After Mario the Spurs have been tough, even labeled dirty, and money in big spots! I can't help but believe mario help set that trend, and we don't win 4 titles without it.

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:td

I always find it lame that supposed Spurs fans pile on and continue the "Spurs were soft" takes. While they were definitely not as tough as the championship level Spurs, the Spurs teams of the early to mid 90s weren't really soft. Saying so is a slap in the face of David Robinson and the other players who kept the Spurs playing at an elite level.

Elie (with one L) helped the Spurs add some playoff savviness and leadership that was vital during the first championship run. He should be recognized for that, no doubt. That said, I don't think Elie belongs anywhere near this discussion for this spot.

He played all of two seasons in San Antonio. His second season he basically tanked and was a non-factor the whole year. When Pop told Elie he needed to be a leader, Elie responded by saying "That's the coach's job".

So basically, Elie's contributions boil down to one season. In that one season, his intangibles were extremely important. He played decently well during the regular season (~9.7 points, 47% from the field). But during the playoffs, he struggled (8 points, 38% from the field, 25% from three).

Elie is a notable player in Spurs history but to me it is laughable to suggest he deserves to be on this list over players like Robertson, Moore or Gilmore. Elie belongs somewhere around were Stephen Jackson ends up. Even if his intangibles were dominant in one season ... it is still only one season. He didn't have the stats or the longevity to back it up. Especially considering he quit on the team in his only other year.

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Originally Posted by timvp

:td

He played all of two seasons in San Antonio. His second season he basically tanked and was a non-factor the whole year. When Pop told Elie he needed to be a leader, Elie responded by saying "That's the coach's job".

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Wow! That's a damning revelation. I never would've thought that from someone that prided himself on being mentally and physically tough. Sounds like a guy resting on his laurels to me.

Nevertheless, I agree that Elie DOES NOT warrant consideration anytime soon.

Doug Moe need to start being included in the discussion at this point. He definitely ranks above Robertson in terms of lasting contributions to the team , and on the same level as Mitchell, Gilmore, and Moore.

In terms of non-players, I'd probably rank him around Holt and definitely above Buford (who, really, is just coattailing Pop).

Overall, I'd say it's between Moore, Moe, Holt, Mitchell, Bass, and Gilmore.

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Originally Posted by timvp

:td

I always find it lame that supposed Spurs fans pile on and continue the "Spurs were soft" takes.

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missing clutch FTS, having the best record, but not getting it done ala Dallas Mavs. I would say that's soft.

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While they were definitely not as tough as the championship level Spurs, the Spurs teams of the early to mid 90s weren't really soft. Saying so is a slap in the face of David Robinson and the other players who kept the Spurs playing at an elite level.

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Lots of soft teams play at elite levels. It's somewhat of a slap, championship teams bring "IT". Those teams of the 90s didn't have "IT".

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Elie (with one L) helped the Spurs add some playoff savviness and leadership that was vital during the first championship run. He should be recognized for that, no doubt. That said, I don't think Elie belongs anywhere near this discussion for this spot.

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Not for this spot, but shouldn't fall out of the top 20.

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He played all of two seasons in San Antonio. His second season he basically tanked and was a non-factor the whole year. When Pop told Elie he needed to be a leader, Elie responded by saying "That's the coach's job".

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Elie is one of the clutchest players I've ever seen. He consistently hit big must have shots. Maybe in the playoffs his fg% was down, but when we had to have it he came through. Also, he closed out every game with his ice water FT shooting.

The first championship is the hardest, and arguably the sweetest. Elie was huge in getting the Spurs over the hump.

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So basically, Elie's contributions boil down to one season. In that one season, his intangibles were extremely important.

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I constantly hear the Houston game during the regular season mentioned as a turning point. Plus, Elie was known for yelling and getting the most out of the big guys.

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He played decently well during the regular season (~9.7 points, 47% from the field). But during the playoffs, he struggled (8 points, 38% from the field, 25% from three).

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We you had to have it he gave it. A shot that is forgotten is in game 5 at NY and Mario hitting a big 3 late.

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Elie is a notable player in Spurs history but to me it is laughable to suggest he deserves to be on this list over players like Robertson, Moore or Gilmore.

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I think Elie deserves top 20 and mentioning him now rather than at 20 increases his chances. I'm playing the game. The guys you mentioned are locks for the next few slots.

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Elie belongs somewhere around were Stephen Jackson ends up.

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Jacks was in the same mold, but Elie was the original and helped get us over the HUGE hump.

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Even if his intangibles were dominant in one season ... it is still only one season.

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I'll trade 10 division championships for 1 NBA title.

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He didn't have the stats or the longevity to back it up. Especially considering he quit on the team in his only other year.

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I don't remember that. I do remember the league changing the D rules and Elie being frustrated. It was the end of the line for that team. what you call quiting others call frustration.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

Doug Moe need to start being included in the discussion at this point. He definitely ranks above Robertson in terms of lasting contributions to the team , and on the same level as Mitchell, Gilmore, and Moore.

In terms of non-players, I'd probably rank him around Holt and definitely above Buford (who, really, is just coattailing Pop).

Overall, I'd say it's between Moore, Moe, Holt, Mitchell, Bass, and Gilmore.

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Even though Robertson loses a good amount of points for being a woman-beating douche who didn't have an affect on winning and losing games, his numbers and accomplishments during his time in San Antonio make him hard to overlook. Kenon got in based solely on stats and accomplishments and I'd argue Robertson has the even more impressive resume on paper.

But I do agree that Robertson's lasting impression on the Spurs is almost non-existent. Probably the most important thing he did was not totally spiral down the drain before getting traded for Terry Cummings.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Even though Robertson loses a good amount of points for being a woman-beating douche who didn't have an affect on winning and losing games, his numbers and accomplishments during his time in San Antonio make him hard to overlook. Kenon got in based solely on stats and accomplishments and I'd argue Robertson has the even more impressive resume on paper.

But I do agree that Robertson's lasting impression on the Spurs is almost non-existent.

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If you remember, I downgraded Kenon for the same reason. So at least I'm being consistent.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

If you remember, I downgraded Kenon for the same reason. So at least I'm being consistent.

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True. :tu

Doug Moe should definitely be the next coach off the list. Second to Pop in career wins. Coached the team when they got into the NBA and did better than almost anyone expected. His uptempo style of play kept the fans interested and coming back to games.

I came very close to voting for Sho...

But since I am trying to vote as much as possible from a basketball perspective, I picked Alvin Robertson.

L.J.- Thanks very much for the player break down. It was very informative and helpful. :tu

I think Sho should make the list no later than spot 25 as should Malik.

Hedo, Brent, Fabricio, Mario Elie, Robert Horry, Michael Finley, P.J. Carlesimo, Sam Presti, Stephen Jackson, and Vinny Del Negro are all people I would like to see make the top 50 list as well.

RC Buford and Steve Kerr deserve a spot too, but I am not particularly concerned that they get one.

Hedo is a lock for top 50.

I went with Junior here. I just think the role he played on some of the best pre-title Spurs teams was vital to the successes of those teams, that his contributions were significant, that his stature with the organization (retired jersey, front office job for at least a few years doing PR) and with fans is hard to miss, and that he deserves this spot.

I won't be able to vote for a few days. It looks like Alvin might win out here, but I'd put Moore at 13, Bass at 14, Robertson at 15, and Moe at 16.

Hedo? If Elie gets credit for one season in which he brought some intangibles to a championship club, then what credit does Hedo get for one season in which he choked against the Lakers?

I'll go with Robertson today and Holt tomorrow

Bump because I think people are getting confused as to which is today's thread...

You're welcome.

If Manu is not vote #2 this forum has become joke. Any idiot can know

1. Duncan
2. Manu

this is nonsense to vote otherwise.

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Originally Posted by Kill_Bill_Pana

If Manu is not vote #2 this forum has become joke. Any idiot can know

1. Duncan
2. Manu

this is nonsense to vote otherwise.

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ROFL.

Comcast.

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Originally Posted by Kill_Bill_Pana

If Manu is not vote #2 this forum has become joke. Any idiot can know

1. Duncan
2. Manu

this is nonsense to vote otherwise.

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this is a joke right?

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Originally Posted by Kill_Bill_Pana

If Manu is not vote #2 this forum has become joke. Any idiot can know

1. Duncan
2. Manu

this is nonsense to vote otherwise.

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If there was any doubt left that you were a troll...it disappeared just now.

Die. Slowly and painfully.

I'm still haven't decided to vote here.

While I'm casting aspersions in many directions, I will say that 00 gets beloved-but-overrated points by many people just because he was a Longhorn.

But this poll is for lasting influence, and he definitely has more than Robertson, although it's arguable that he has more than Moe, Holt, or Bass. All things being equal, I guess I'll go with the player over the non-player.

PETER HOLT!!!