Jeff Van Gundy: Ginobili Putting Off Surgery Put Spurs "At A Stark Disadvantage"

Don't count on Olympics hangover for NBA stars
By Chris Colston

Now that Team USA has won Olympic gold for the first time since 2000, players can turn their attention to the NBA season, which tips off Oct. 28.
They will get a respite until training camps begin next month. But it's natural to wonder how the Olympic experience will affect the league's stars.

The wear and tear has sometimes led to Olympians breaking down the following NBA season. In 2004-05, Richard Jefferson played in just 31 games because of injury. In 1996-97, Charles Barkley played 53 games in an injury-plagued season. And following the 2006 world championships in Japan, LeBron James, Elton Brand, Chris Bosh and Dwyane Wade struggled with various ailments.

But often, Olympians who logged the most minutes have gone on to productive years:

•In 2004-05, Allen Iverson led the NBA in scoring; (30.7 points per game) and that same season, Stephon Marbury started all 82 games for the first time in his career.

•In 2000-01, Vince Carter finished with his highest career scoring average (27.6), Gary Payton averaged 41.1 minutes played, and Jason Kidd led the league in assists.

•In 1996-97, Payton, Scottie Pippen and Karl Malone started 82 games. Reggie Miller started 81.

•In 1992-93, Michael Jordan led the league in scoring (32.6 points per game), Barkley was league MVP and Malone started 82 games.

"I think it's one of the misnomers of the Olympics that the players will somehow be physically fatigued," says ABC/ESPN analyst Jeff Van Gundy. "If you look at their minutes played per game, it's certainly not tiring. They would probably be more tired if they went through a normal workout getting ready for the season."

NBA coaches can thank Team USA coach Mike Krzyzewski for distributing playing time across the roster. Ten players averaged at least 11 minutes per game. James led the USA with an average of 24.8 minutes played.

Cavaliers general manager Danny Ferry notes James has trained and played for USA Basketball the past few years. "Overall, LeBron's recovery after each of these cycles has been pretty remarkable," Ferry says. "Regardless, over the next several weeks we will get a good feel for where his body is and make a plan accordingly."

Van Gundy coached Olympian Allan Houston after the 2000 Games, and the guard played 78 games the following season. Van Gundy says the mental fatigue of a lengthy overseas trip could be a bigger factor.

For players nursing injuries, however, Van Gundy says the Olympics could have a larger impact. Los Angeles Lakers guard Kobe Bryant put off surgery on his finger to participate in Beijing, and San Antonio Spurs guard Manu Ginobili recently had surgery on his left ankle — for an injury he re-aggravated playing for Argentina.

"I'm not one to judge. But it's a fact — Ginobili putting off the inevitable surgery has put his team at a stark disadvantage," Van Gundy says. "He's certainly going to miss a good part of training camp, if not all of it, and he could miss some games."

Lakers spokesman John Black said Bryant expects to make a decision on when to have surgery soon.

But for most players, the Olympic experience is a benefit. "Staying in shape is critical," Van Gundy says, "and playing against good competition helps. Where would you rather get a run in, at UCLA or against the best the world has to offer?"

I agree with JVG.

At least it's from a compulsion to serve his country in the Olympics and not in wartime.

Hall of Famer Ted Williams lost 5 years of his baseball career to military service.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...2%2C_1942..jpg

And then of course there was this guy...:depressed

http://dvmx.com/pat_tillman_lg.jpg

Quote:

---

"I'm not one to judge. But it's a fact — Ginobili putting off the inevitable surgery has put his team at a stark disadvantage,"

---

Sad & True. But sometimes it's the perfect time for the team to discover players with potentials.
Like for instance Boris Diaw when Amare rested for 1 season.

Manu will be ready for the playoffs, hopefully.

Well. In all my bitching, at least my Topps Finest rookie of his will increase in value over his bronze.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by milkyway21

Sad & True. But sometimes it's the perfect time for the team to discover players with potentials.
Like for instance Boris Diaw when Amare rested for 1 season.

Manu will be ready for the playoffs, hopefully.

---

Manu will not be in shape for playoffs, that's what JVG meant..

He would not have played enough games for him to be in shape for the grueling demands of playoffs.. which means that he could be a non-factor..

Without Manu, there is no chance of Spurs winning championship.. that's the bottomline..

I think we all know, that Manu backstabbed his coach,teammates and the city of San Antonio. When it comes to the San Antonio Spurs, I can go back and remember keys through out the years that made or broke us. Its time to move on. With or without Manu.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gilmor

Manu will not be in shape for playoffs, that's what JVG meant..

He would not have played enough games for him to be in shape for the grueling demands of playoffs.. which means that he could be a non-factor..

Without Manu, there is no chance of Spurs winning championship.. that's the bottomline..

---

Are you serious?

Even by the worst prediction, Manu will have played 3 months of basketball before the playoffs.

He will be ready.

I'd like to know where some people are getting their crystal balls. They seem pretty certain that their looks into the future are 100% accurate. I'd like to use them for some more important things, like who is going to win the election or what is the economy going to look like in a year.

I can't wait for Manu to come back with a vengeance and prove all the debbie downers wrong.

Lets move on..Manu already played the Olympics and already done the surgery..now its time to hope for the best...instead of going back and forth...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gilmor

Manu will not be in shape for playoffs, that's what JVG meant..

He would not have played enough games for him to be in shape for the grueling demands of playoffs.. which means that he could be a non-factor..

Without Manu, there is no chance of Spurs winning championship.. that's the bottomline..

---

I don't think that is at all what he meant. I think he is assuming the spurs will not have their starters healthy at the start of the season and it will take them longer to gain that ever important team chemistry. I think the disadvantage part is simply in reference to them losing games early in the season in an incredibly tough western conference. manu will be more than ready for the playoffs, hell he may not even miss any games.

Fuck Manu Ginobili and his wobbly ankle.

so when exactly did the spurs say "you need to have surgery ASAP" and manu answered "screw you i'm going to china"?

because all i remember was "it's probably better if you dont go" followed by "let me see what the doctors say" followed by "ok you can go, but be careful and be honest if there is a problem" followed by "of course" followed by "i'm feeling good" followed by "i tweaked it therefore i'm sitting out immediately"

this revisionist "i told you so" crap is really annoying, especially in an article that acknowledges that there is no discernible correlation between playing in the olympics and suffering injury. the risk is always there for athletes, olympics or not. last season was the clearest example. No international play in the summer followed by injury in the playoffs followed by the spurs losing. in fact, the 06 year was largely the same. manu didnt play the summer after 04-05, then in 05-06 he had nagging little injuries in the middle of the season and didnt really find his groove until it was too late. If anything, the 3 seasons the spurs won with manu were years he played intl ball the summer prior to that.

where is the article blasting monta ellis for putting GS at a stark disadvantage by working out in the summer?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Solid D

At least it's from a compulsion to serve his country in the Olympics and not in wartime.

Hall of Famer Ted Williams lost 5 years of his baseball career to military service.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...2%2C_1942..jpg

---

paul arizin lost 2 seasons because of the military service

There was also a possibility that Admiral would go on the "Desert Storm"

My concern is a little more than whether Manu will miss a few games at the beginning of the season.

Anything that is serious enough for surgery is serious enough to pose a risk that the surgery, even if 'successful', will not enable Manu to come back to 100% of the old Manu.

It happens.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wildbill2u

My concern is a little more than whether Manu will miss a few games at the beginning of the season.

Anything that is serious enough for surgery is serious enough to pose a risk that the surgery, even if 'successful', will not enable Manu to come back to 100% of the old Manu.

It happens.

---

nooo shit! can you see the crystal ball too? :rolleyes

JVG with a scoop :wow

Seriously....

Remember Clyde Drexler: he played injured in the 92 olympics, then missed a lot of games in the 92-93 season.
I remeber a game Spurs lost to the Blazers during the 92-93 season; he played the first 5 minutes and then left the game

Manu will be fine. I expect him to return by about the All-Star Break in fine form ready to contribute if not earlier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mrspurs

I think we all know, that Manu backstabbed his coach,teammates and the city of San Antonio. When it comes to the San Antonio Spurs, I can go back and remember keys through out the years that made or broke us. Its time to move on. With or without Manu.

---

:rolleyes

Certainly... because the last few summers that Manu played international ball the Spurs were doomed the following season....

oh wait....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by duncan228

"I'm not one to judge. But it's a fact — Ginobili putting off the inevitable surgery has put his team at a stark disadvantage," Van Gundy says. "He's certainly going to miss a good part of training camp, if not all of it, and he could miss some games."

---

Van Gundy is a fucking genius.

I disagree with JVG....well if you look from NBA spectacles which ego and money oriented Manu is making a stupid move, but Olympic is an event which came every four years not to mention his country is a defending champion. I dont know if this kindda things registered in a citizen's heart such as JVG, but to be a ble to represent your country and carrying the flag in opening ceremony is an honour that money can not buy. It does come with an expense though. Kobe said Olympic gold medal worth more than NBA rings. We, Americans always think everything according to our measure whether its NBA, MLB or anything else. To be able to represent your country and chosen above millions of other citizens is a lifetime experience, even if it cost Manu couple games off, training and risk of reinjured. Manu made his decision..and last time I remember Spurs is a repeat contender. I guess one player decision did make an impact on a team, but that man is NOT WRONG, HIS DECISION IS RIGHT ACCORDING TO HIS HEART not financial contract calculation or NBA measurement. I guess some people never understand this and only think of themselves and their small team and tiny neighbourhood. Team vs your country..u can decide which one is smaller

good thing ducks did not post this article

I can see Manu's side playing for his country, if it was me, I probably would have done the same thing. I used to be quite a good track runner and my main goal was to make the Olympics, that would have been the ultimate. Of course, I never made the cut...not really close, just too many good runners out there. The Olympics are just the ultimate for an athlete.

That said, I've never been paid millions to pay basketball so with that does come some responsibility, although I probably still wouldn't have turned down the Olympics :D

Are the Spurs screwed? Probably. Teams in the West aren't that far from each other, you really have to be on top of your game to get out in the West. I don't have a crystal ball but if you only have 2 good players in the West, you probably won't make it very far.

Spurs only have TP and Tim to carry the load for a couple of months, I don't think that will be enough and still leave some to make a deep run if they make the Playoffs.

Wishing for a speedy recovery for Manu but ankle surgeries take a long time to heal, then you have to "trust" your ankle again and that takes a while longer.

People are throughing around "a couple of months", or "until the the AS break" as if some expert has already opined on the subject.

Can somebody with some level of knowledge on the subject chime in?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brox6

Lets move on..Manu already played the Olympics and already done the surgery..now its time to hope for the best...instead of going back and forth...

---

That's the thing - we can't just move on. Ginobili himself said that he would do it again if he had the chance. Brushing it under the carpet won't do anything to prevent future problems from happening. People who encouraged his participation in the Olympics kept steady in their beliefs while others insisted that it was only a matter of time before he seriously hurt himself. Unfortunately, the latter group was 100% correct.

Did Manu have the Spurs' best interest in mind when deciding to play in the Olympics? No.

Did Manu know that playing in the Olympics could result in the Spurs and Spurs fans suffering this coming season? Yes.

Was there any way in hell Manu wasn't going to play in the Olympics? No.

Should the Spurs blame, trade or be mad at Manu? No.

I'm ready to move on from the whole Manu mess. He was going to play in the Olympics no matter if he risked further injury or Spurs losses. He played and got hurt. Oh well. The games must go on.

Regarding Manu, we just have to hope he recovers completely and is ready to peak during the playoffs for the first time since 2005. The Spurs will need him playing his best when it counts for the team to have a chance.

Quote:

---

Did Manu have the Spurs' best interest in mind when deciding to play in the Olympics? No.

---

After stating that fact, nothing can justify playing in the Olympics.

Everyday Im Hustling Hustling

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by T Park

After stating that fact, nothing can justify playing in the Olympics.

---

Maybe it doesn't justify it to you, but it doesn't have to. Manu doesn't have to have the Spurs best interest in mind in every move he makes in the offseason. He just has to do what he needs to do to have peace with himself. Everyone who knows anything about Manu knows how much the Olympics/his national team mean to him. You can't judge him for his priorities and passions.

why can you not judge him?

he gets paid to play for the spurs

if the spurs trade him you can not judge them either then because he does not head to their suggestions during the offseasons if you can not judge manu

THANK YOU SO MUCH KORI!!!Nobody understands that there was nothing that was going to keep Manu from defending his olympic gold medal for his country, hell nobody could have kept me away from doing the same if i had the oppurtunity. I completely respect Manu for the decision he made and will continue to defend him till the day he retires on this matter!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by batman2883

Everyday Im Hustling Hustling

---

so that makes it ok not to do what your 80 million dollar boss wants

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by batman2883

THANK YOU SO MUCH KORI!!!Nobody understands that there was nothing that was going to keep Manu from defending his olympic gold medal for his country, hell nobody could have kept me away from doing the same if i had the oppurtunity. I completely respect Manu for the decision he made and will continue to defend him till the day he retires on this matter!!

---

true broken body did not stop manu and stopping contract extension talk did not either


because he is more stubborn then pop
spurs threaten to put extension on hold and he still said who cares
I DO WHAT I WANT

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ducks

so that makes it ok not to do what your 80 million dollar boss wants

---

his drive and passion to lead his country who considers him their idol....Manu is Argentina's superstar in more ways than one!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Maybe it doesn't justify it to you, but it doesn't have to. Manu doesn't have to have the Spurs best interest in mind in every move he makes in the offseason. He just has to do what he needs to do to have peace with himself. Everyone who knows anything about Manu knows how much the Olympics/his national team mean to him. You can't judge him for his priorities and passions.

---

When it affects the team I pay to watch and root for, yes it does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by batman2883

his drive and passion to lead his country who considers him their idol....Manu is Argentina's superstar in more ways than one!!

---

so his fans over there want him to play when he is hurt and have surgery instead

take about a selfish fans

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ducks

why can you not judge him?

he gets paid to play for the spurs

if the spurs trade him you can not judge them either then because he does not head to their suggestions during the offseasons if you can not judge manu

---

And you ask why i call you idiot?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ducks

true broken body did not stop manu and stopping contract extension talk did not either


because he is more stubborn then pop
spurs threaten to put extension on hold and he still said who cares
I DO WHAT I WANT

---

Its not doing what he wanted, its doing something that he thought he needed to do, his leadership, his on court presence to help defend his olympic gold medal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cherry

And you ask why i call you idiot?

---

kori is the one that said you can not judge manu not me

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by batman2883

his drive and passion to lead his country who considers him their idol....Manu is Argentina's superstar in more ways than one!!

---

Good for Argentina.

Let them pay his salary then.

Until they do, his bosses are the Spurs, and the Spurs wanted him to rest at home. He blew the Spurs off, and now hes out till December or January.

Spurs shouldn't pay him a fucking dime till he plays again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by batman2883

Its not doing what he wanted, its doing something that he thought he needed to do, his leadership, his on court presence to help defend his olympic gold medal.

---

if he did not want to
all he had to do is say no

is his country CHINA?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ducks

so his fans over there want him to play when he is hurt and have surgery instead

take about a selfish fans

---

talk about stubborn, get over it dude it happened, he went with his heart, for his country.........and i think its admorable.

Here's The Cold Hard Facts, Spurs Wanted Him To Rest....he Didnt, His Foot Would Have Needed Surgery Either Way, It Wasnt Getting Any Better Or Worse.....end Of The Story Is Id Rather Have Him Get The Surgery Now Rather Than At The Beggining Of The Season And Have Him Gone Most Of The Entire Season...this Is A Blessing In Disguise

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by batman2883

talk about stubborn, get over it dude it happened, he went with his heart, for his country.........and i think its admorable.

---

I think he was being stupid
he knew he needed surgery and he played again

any player knowing he needs surgery and puts it off to play in the games
is stupid
even if it was david robinson my favorite player

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ducks

kori is the one that said you can not judge manu not me

---

excuses! excuses! :lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by batman2883

Here's The Cold Hard Facts, Spurs Wanted Him To Rest....he Didnt, His Foot Would Have Needed Surgery Either Way, It Wasnt Getting Any Better Or Worse.....end Of The Story Is Id Rather Have Him Get The Surgery Now Rather Than At The Beggining Of The Season And Have Him Gone Most Of The Entire Season...this Is A Blessing In Disguise

---

so you agree he needed surgery so putting off the surgery hurt the spurs
I can agree with you on that

No I Agree That He Wouldnt Have Opted For Surgery...he Would Have Just Rested It Thinking Thats All It Needed Then Come The Season He Would Have Reaggrevated That Injury And Thus Would Have Caused Him To Have The Surgery During The Season........id Rather Have Him Realize He Needed It Before The Season Starts Than During The Season Thats My Point

I agree you can't tell Manu what to or what not to do during the offseason. The Spurs pay him to play during the season and then "ask" him not to play in the Olympics. He chose to do so and now he has to live with the consequences.

1) The ball is in the Spurs court now. They have a BUSINESS decision to make. Nobody can fault the FO for trading Manu if they decide to. The reality is Manu's decision could have cost the Spurs the season, there's no denying that. The Spurs have to decide whether or not they want to just write off this season or just take a chance and hope everything works out.

2) Again, it was Manu's decision, nobody had the right to make that decision except for him. It's his free time, he's on his own clock. It really comes to is money more important or representing your country...a very hard decision to make when you're the top player from a small country.

3) Both sides are paying the price for this injury. Spurs may be screwed this season...they are already looking shopping for a replacement. Manu may get traded and already extension talks have been put on hold.

Just like you can't blame Manu for playing the Olympics, you can't blame the Spurs if they decide to trade him to recoup their investment and possibly the season.

must be reading Spurstalk.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Allanon

I agree you can't tell Manu what to or what not to do during the offseason. The Spurs pay him to play during the season and then "ask" him not to play in the Olympics. He chose to do so and now he has to live with the consequences.

1) The ball is in the Spurs court now. They have a BUSINESS decision to make. Nobody can fault the FO for trading Manu if they decide to. The reality is Manu's decision could have cost the Spurs the season, there's no denying that. The Spurs have to decide whether or not they want to just write off this season or just take a chance and hope everything works out.

2) Again, it was Manu's decision, nobody had the right to make that decision except for him. It's his free time, he's on his own clock. It really comes to is money more important or representing your country...a very hard decision to make when you're the top player from a small country.

3) Both sides are paying the price for this injury. Spurs may be screwed this season...they are already looking shopping for a replacement. Manu may get traded and already extension talks have been put on hold.

Just like you can't blame Manu for playing the Olympics, you can't blame the Spurs if they decide to trade him to recoup their investment and possibly the season.

---

you can put clauses in his next contract though

teams put clauses players can not ride motorcyles and things

you can tell manu some things he can not do during the offseason

WHAT WHAT?! You brought me out brought me out
You started talkin shit and now you fools brought me out
Why you bitches wanna doubt me?
I rep silver and black but home is down south B!

I told you once I don’t rap dog
I’m just the hype man…
But you can choke on my fat log
All this debatin’ is really senseless
After this year you will come to your senses

Bron Bron promised you gold see
But with just three stars we’ll bring the trophy
Yeah it’s true I fuk’d my ankle up
But unless you’ve walked in my shoes…
SHUT YOUR ASS UP!

WHAT WHAT?! You brought me out brought me out
You started talkin shit and now you fools brought me out
Why you bitches wanna doubt me?
I rep silver and black but home is down south B!

PUT ‘EM UP
PUT ‘EM UP

After last year, I will be happy if he sits out the entire first half. Injury or no injury.

Quote:

---

Why you bitches wanna doubt me?
I rep silver and black but home is down south B!

---

:lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hype Man Manu

WHAT WHAT?! You brought me out brought me out
You started talkin shit and now you fools brought me out
Why you bitches wanna doubt me?
I rep silver and black but home is down south B!

I told you once I don’t rap dog
I’m just the hype man…
But you can choke on my fat log
All this debatin’ is really senseless
After this year you will come to your senses

Bron Bron promised you gold see
But with just three stars we’ll bring the trophy
Yeah it’s true I fuk’d my ankle up
But unless you’ve walked in my shoes…
SHUT YOUR ASS UP!

WHAT WHAT?! You brought me out brought me out
You started talkin shit and now you fools brought me out
Why you bitches wanna doubt me?
I rep silver and black but home is down south B!

PUT ‘EM UP
PUT ‘EM UP

---

:rollin

Out of curiosity, when was it mentioned that Manu put off surgery to play in the Olympics? I certainly don't remember that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by gilmor

Manu will not be in shape for playoffs, that's what JVG meant..

He would not have played enough games for him to be in shape for the grueling demands of playoffs.. which means that he could be a non-factor..

Without Manu, there is no chance of Spurs winning championship.. that's the bottomline..

---

he meant that. You're kidding me.

"I'm not one to judge. But it's a fact — Ginobili putting off the inevitable surgery has put his team at a stark disadvantage," Van Gundy says. "He's certainly going to miss a good part of training camp, if not all of it, and he could miss some games."

miss good part of training camp,
miss some games............................................. ......>playoffs!



Hello?:oops

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Out of curiosity, when was it mentioned that Manu put off surgery to play in the Olympics? I certainly don't remember that.

---

exactly, but the revisionists are having a field day, and i lost a ton of respect for JVG and all the other columnists pulling shit out of their ass on this subject.


hey ducks, how many times do you have to be told that it is ILLEGAL to put a clause in the contract forbidding participation in the olympics? you're so worried about the spurs, yet you fail to realize that that kind of pressure will only get the spurs in legal trouble

hey tpark, where is that evidence you have proving that manu wouldn't have surgery if he hadnt played in the olympics? or evidence that players that only play in the NBA have healthier careers? or how about, you explain to me why a basketball player with a guaranteed contract shouldnt cash his pay check for sustaining a basketball injury in an official tournament that the player's team's league is obligated to authorize participation in and for which said player had the necessary health insurance?? how exactly did argentina force the poor poor san antonio spurs to give manu a 52M guaranteed contract?

pathetic loser victim mentality, go count your pennies again and see if you can buy yourself a helmet.

and if you dont have enough cash for the helmet, you should go to work in the insurance industry, being the great calculator of risks that you are.

who's manu?



eye keed,
eye keed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Out of curiosity, when was it mentioned that Manu put off surgery to play in the Olympics? I certainly don't remember that.

---

He didn't put off surgery because it was mentioned as the best option just in case of reinjury.

Anyway, i want to punch the doctor who told him in June: "with this injection, you will be fine in two weeks" :ihit

Like others have said, Ginobili didn't exactly put his country over money. He put his country over the Spurs, knowing he'd still get paid. Even if he never earned another cent, he has made more in 10 years than most of us could ever dream of. Please, let's stop painting him as the most selfless person in the world. He's like everyone else; he likes money a lot even if it's not the most important thing on his list.

5/24/00 - Tim Duncan underwent knee surgery then later traveled around Orlando for a possible team-up with Grant Hill and TMac.

TD 2000 stats show 72 double-doubles, just won All-Star MVP...with the help of the Admiral re-signed with the Spurs 8/2/00(whew). 4 titles later he's still here and you know what, 31 yrs old he can still lead this team with a his NEW crew, as always while Manu recuperate.

2000 summer believe me or not was a lot lot more scary, far than this one guys.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by v2freak

Like others have said, Ginobili didn't exactly put his country over money. He put his country over the Spurs, knowing he'd still get paid. Even if he never earned another cent, he has made more in 10 years than most of us could ever dream of. Please, let's stop painting him as the most selfless person in the world. He's like everyone else; he likes money a lot even if it's not the most important thing on his list.

---

Epic Fail:lmao x 1000

You don't know Manu

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cherry

He didn't put off surgery because it was mentioned as the best option just in case of reinjury.

---

So without the Olympics he probably wouldn't have re-injured it until camp or early in the regular season, which would have meant that he'd have gotten surgery six weeks later, not six weeks earlier.

Hmm. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sure glad he played in the Olympics. Even though I didn't want him to, it turned out as favorably for the Spurs as it possibly could have.

Technically, Manu Ginobili’s ankle injury did not occur in the Olympic semifinal game against the United States. Rather, he merely aggravated a previous injury suffered in the NBA playoffs.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...pe=team_report

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ducks

Technically, Manu Ginobili’s ankle injury did not occur in the Olympic semifinal game against the United States. Rather, he merely aggravated a previous injury suffered in the NBA playoffs.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news;_yl...pe=team_report

---

So there was no mention of surgery until it was aggravated, and thanks to the Olympics, he aggravated the injury in August instead of in November, allowing him to be healthy for the majority of the upcoming season.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

So there was no mention of surgery until it was aggravated, and thanks to the Olympics, he aggravated the injury in August instead of in November, allowing him to be healthy for the majority of the upcoming season.

---

because he refused to have surgery right away
he would not have re=aggravetated it if he had surgery

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

So without the Olympics he probably wouldn't have re-injured it until camp or early in the regular season, which would have meant that he'd have gotten surgery six weeks later, not six weeks earlier.

Hmm. I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sure glad he played in the Olympics. Even though I didn't want him to, it turned out as favorably for the Spurs as it possibly could have.

---

The ligament in his ankle never got better or worse. If he would have stayed in San Antonio, the Spurs and Manu would have decided he'd have the surgery sometime in July.

Re-injuring the ankle wasn't really what brought on the surgery. The MRI showing the ligament was the same as it was after the season ended was the deciding factor. Even if he would have come to San Antonio after the Olympics without re-injuring his ankle, he would have gone under the knife after they saw the MRI results.

I understand now why some people said Spurs fans is spoiled but intelligent, and a very demanding one....Manu didnt afraid if Spurs stop extension talk, he knows what he's worth. Lots of teams will begging Manu to come to their team. I personally understand and respect his decision to play for his country, its an honour to him and Olympic medal is the biggest achievement an athlete can get because it is measured over the ENTIRE WORLD (I also understand that some people think NBA or US is everything, there is no sport activity outside US). I also understand anger and frustation of Spurs fans who think that Manu put his team to disadvantage. I also want Spurs to win...but if you look at Manu's heart than u should understand (Many people will not give a fuck because all they care is the Championship). THIS TALK IS FUCKING GOING NOWHERE...IT HAPPENED,LETS MOVE ON!!! UNLESS THAT U PUSSIES WANNA STUCK IN THE PAST THEN BE MY GUEST..Im done with this shit

From what I remember the Spurs just wanted to treat his ankle with rest and injections after the playoffs and not surgery right away. He tried all of that and it worked for a while but it just gave out again during the Olympics. They did tell Manu that if the pain came back that surgery would probably be done and so now here we are. By the way here's the treatment plan for this and Manu's pretty much been through it all.

You may be told to rest the ankle for a short time to reduce swelling and pain. A special walking boot or short-leg cast may be recommended to restrict ankle movement for up to four weeks. Mild pain medications and anti-inflammatory medicine, such as ibuprofen, may also be prescribed. An ice pack can also help alleviate swelling and may encourage a faster return of normal ankle movement.
Your doctor may recommend a steroid injection into the painful area. Steroids are strong anti-inflammatory medications. A steroid injection can help relieve irritation and swelling in the soft tissues that are being pinched, reducing their tendency to get pinched.
Your doctor may suggest that you work with a physical therapist to help you regain normal use of your ankle. Patients often progress in a series of exercises including stationary cycling, range of motion, and ankle strengthening.
If nonsurgical treatments do not work, surgery may be recommended. The type of surgery will vary depending on the location and cause of ankle impingement.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Cherry

Epic Fail:lmao x 1000

You don't know Manu

---

Set aside, for the moment, that my comment definitely wasn't so funny that you should "laugh your ass off a thousand times"; it is neither a compliment nor an insult to suggest that Ginobili is no choir boy. Sorry, but it was clear from the moment he signed the contract that he wanted to live how every NBA player wants to live.

You're right, I don't know Ginobili personally and I am most certainly not a mind reader. I think it is more than fair to say that, out of the comment "he is so patriotic he chose his country over money", we just say "he is really patriotic."

And on a side note, who else is getting tired of this annoying internet argot? "Epic fail" ? "Lolz" ? And the worst one, "pwn"?

whatever

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timvp

Did Manu have the Spurs' best interest in mind when deciding to play in the Olympics? No.

Did Manu know that playing in the Olympics could result in the Spurs and Spurs fans suffering this coming season? Yes.

Was there any way in hell Manu wasn't going to play in the Olympics? No.

Should the Spurs blame, trade or be mad at Manu? No.

I'm ready to move on from the whole Manu mess. He was going to play in the Olympics no matter if he risked further injury or Spurs losses. He played and got hurt. Oh well. The games must go on.

Regarding Manu, we just have to hope he recovers completely and is ready to peak during the playoffs for the first time since 2005. The Spurs will need him playing his best when it counts for the team to have a chance.

---

+1

I don't think anyoe could've said it better. Except maybe ducks...
:lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timvp

The ligament in his ankle never got better or worse. If he would have stayed in San Antonio, the Spurs and Manu would have decided he'd have the surgery sometime in July.

Re-injuring the ankle wasn't really what brought on the surgery. The MRI showing the ligament was the same as it was after the season ended was the deciding factor. Even if he would have come to San Antonio after the Olympics without re-injuring his ankle, he would have gone under the knife after they saw the MRI results.

---

This isn't directed at you specifically, but I'm still waiting for some evidence that they would definitely have had the surgery in July. It seems like a rather large assumption. I'm not even sure how one would assume that Manu would have stayed in San Antonio just because it was the offseason.

Since San Antonio isn't the only city in the world with an MRI machine, I'm not sure how there's any excuse for not doing it whenever they wanted. What's Manu going to do, refuse to have one? If everyone knew he was potentially going to need surgery then the Spurs could have sent someone to take Manu to the doctor. It wouldn't have mattered if he was in Hawaii, Buenos Aires or Beijing. If they'd set a timetable to check his ankle a second time, they could have done it. It seems they didn't. I fail to see how that's on Manu.

It would have made the situation a lot simpler if the Spurs had said, "Of course you can go to the Olympics, but we want another MRI on X date, and if there's no improvement then you need to have surgery by Y date."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by v2freak

Set aside, for the moment, that my comment definitely wasn't so funny that you should "laugh your ass off a thousand times"; it is neither a compliment nor an insult to suggest that Ginobili is no choir boy. Sorry, but it was clear from the moment he signed the contract that he wanted to live how every NBA player wants to live.

---

The only thing that was clear is that Manu chose the Spurs because it was the best City, Franchise and organization to play as a team. It was clear that San Antonio is a small market too.

Btw, Manu take his decision and suspended the contract extension in common with the Spurs. Any other Star do the same this days?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by v2freak

You're right, I don't know Ginobili personally and I am most certainly not a mind reader. I think it is more than fair to say that, out of the comment "he is so patriotic he chose his country over money", we just say "he is really patriotic."

---

He's not so pariotic. You have no idea what this team means for him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by v2freak

And on a side note, who else is getting tired of this annoying internet argot? "Epic fail" ? "Lolz" ? And the worst one, "pwn"?

---

Is annoying only when it becomes against you. I think everybody feels the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

This isn't directed at you specifically, but I'm still waiting for some evidence that they would definitely have had the surgery in July. It seems like a rather large assumption. I'm not even sure how one would assume that Manu would have stayed in San Antonio just because it was the offseason.

Since San Antonio isn't the only city in the world with an MRI machine, I'm not sure how there's any excuse for not doing it whenever they wanted. What's Manu going to do, refuse to have one? If everyone knew he was potentially going to need surgery then the Spurs could have sent someone to take Manu to the doctor. It wouldn't have mattered if he was in Hawaii, Buenos Aires or Beijing. If they'd set a timetable to check his ankle a second time, they could have done it. It seems they didn't. I fail to see how that's on Manu.

It would have made the situation a lot simpler if the Spurs had said, "Of course you can go to the Olympics, but we want another MRI on X date, and if there's no improvement then you need to have surgery by Y date."

---

I agree with you, and I highly doubt that anyone will provide the evidence you want for it is just speculation they try to present as facts

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Manudona

I agree with you, and I highly doubt that anyone will provide the evidence you want for it is just speculation they try to present as facts

---

Thank you, but don't mistake my statements as a suggestion that Manu is blameless in this situation. I'm pretty equally displeased with the incompetence of both parties in this fiasco.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

This isn't directed at you specifically, but I'm still waiting for some evidence that they would definitely have had the surgery in July. It seems like a rather large assumption. I'm not even sure how one would assume that Manu would have stayed in San Antonio just because it was the offseason.

Since San Antonio isn't the only city in the world with an MRI machine, I'm not sure how there's any excuse for not doing it whenever they wanted. What's Manu going to do, refuse to have one? If everyone knew he was potentially going to need surgery then the Spurs could have sent someone to take Manu to the doctor. It wouldn't have mattered if he was in Hawaii, Buenos Aires or Beijing. If they'd set a timetable to check his ankle a second time, they could have done it. It seems they didn't. I fail to see how that's on Manu.

It would have made the situation a lot simpler if the Spurs had said, "Of course you can go to the Olympics, but we want another MRI on X date, and if there's no improvement then you need to have surgery by Y date."

---

There was a second MRI in early July. It's been talked about both in San Antonio and Argentine newspapers. The results of that MRI was the same as the result of the first MRI and the result of the most recent MRI. That's around the same time Pop was telling Manu not to play.

But obviously there isn't going to be official word from the Spurs saying that they told him to have surgery and he disobeyed their orders and went ahead and played in the Olympics. That very well could be what happened but with Pop in full Damage Control Mode right now trying to mend all fences between Manu and the Spurs, we would never hear that officially from anyone from the Spurs.

My guess of what happened is the Spurs knew that Manu needed surgery after the initial injections didn't help the injury. That's why Pop came out and said Manu needs to use caution when decided if he should play. The Spurs told Manu that the ligament is inflamed but he's not in increased danger of hurting himself in the Olympics. When Manu returned, he was going under the knife no matter if he hurt it again or not because the injury never healed.

The scenario could be different but I doubt it. Pop wouldn't have called out his own player in the media if he thought the matter wasn't important. The Spurs wanted Manu to take care of an ankle that was supposed to heal in two weeks that wasn't healed in two months. Manu opted instead to play in the Olympics -- which I think was very understandable.

The opinion that Manu and the Spurs are somehow better off that he got hurt in the Olympics is illogical to me because Manu never got healed in the first place so there was no way the Spurs would have let him go into training camp with the same injury he had in May.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by T Park

After stating that fact, nothing can justify playing in the Olympics.

---

There are many reasons for him to play in the Olympics. The problem is you are being selfish. It is all about you and what makes you feel good. You could care less about what Manu wants to do, what makes Manu happy. You want Manu to be as close as a slave as he can possibly be.

Again, I'm going to be all over you, ducks and the other fucks when you are kissing Manu's ass in next year's playoffs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ducks

because he is more stubborn then pop
spurs threaten to put extension on hold and he still said who cares
I DO WHAT I WANT

---

:lmao

Talk about a post that makes no sense. You are got dam stupid.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by smeagol

Again, I'm going to be all over you, ducks and the other fucks when you are kissing Manu's ass in next year's playoffs.

---

Why? They want him to do well then.

Well, maybe ducks doesn't....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by T Park

When it affects the team I pay to watch and root for, yes it does.

---

Thats very shallow. There is more to life than NBA basketball.

The more I think about it the more I think Manu made a mistake. I respect his right to make his own decisions, but I do think his priorities were out of whack here. I really really value playing for your country and I think the people who say there is a risk that you will get hurt and argue not playing for that reason are wrong. People can get hurt no matter what they do and fear of getting hurt shouldn't stop you from playing.

Now, that being said, playing while hurt is a completely different animal to me. I understand that this is what is most important to Manu, But he was really irresponsible in this decision if in fact he was already hurt (and I think most people recognize he was and why the Spurs didn't release the info publicly) and was already in need of surgery. Manu can afford to be irresponsible because he's so valuable to the Spurs but that doesn't mean it annoys me.

Sure, I'll be as happy as ever if Manu tears it up but thats not a given. We've seen just as many sub par playoffs from Manu as good playoffs. I do know this, if Manu doesn't tear it up he's not going to have the same kind of leeway from fans and he probably won't get the same type of respect from his team either. Contract extension talk? Don't think so.

So what his con years, anyways, Since i only started being a fan in 06.

Quick bit of trivia: I moved from Houston in like 04, and I went for the losing team when it came to Spurs vs Mavs in BOTH '05 and '06.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

This isn't directed at you specifically, but I'm still waiting for some evidence that they would definitely have had the surgery in July. It seems like a rather large assumption. I'm not even sure how one would assume that Manu would have stayed in San Antonio just because it was the offseason.

---

Not hard to assume at all. Players carrying injuries put off sugery in-season or play-offs to have surgery in the off-season all the time. For Manu his off-season started as soon as the olympics finished

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

The more I think about it the more I think Manu made a mistake. I respect his right to make his own decisions, but I do think his priorities were out of whack here. I really really value playing for your country and I think the people who say there is a risk that you will get hurt and argue not playing for that reason are wrong. People can get hurt no matter what they do and fear of getting hurt shouldn't stop you from playing.

Now, that being said, playing while hurt is a completely different animal to me. I understand that this is what is most important to Manu, But he was really irresponsible in this decision if in fact he was already hurt (and I think most people recognize he was and why the Spurs didn't release the info publicly) and was already in need of surgery. Manu can afford to be irresponsible because he's so valuable to the Spurs but that doesn't mean it annoys me.

Sure, I'll be as happy as ever if Manu tears it up but thats not a given. We've seen just as many sub par playoffs from Manu as good playoffs. I do know this, if Manu doesn't tear it up he's not going to have the same kind of leeway from fans and he probably won't get the same type of respect from his team either. Contract extension talk? Don't think so.

---

manny said what ducks was trying to say

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ducks

manny said what ducks was trying to say

---

Not rerally. Manny understands why Manu wanted to play in the Olympics (he simply does not agree with the decision). Actually, Manny thinks NBA players should be allowed to play in the Olympics.

ducks on the other hand . . .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timvp

The opinion that Manu and the Spurs are somehow better off that he got hurt in the Olympics is illogical to me because Manu never got healed in the first place so there was no way the Spurs would have let him go into training camp with the same injury he had in May.

---

One would think there was no way they were going to let him go to the Olympics with the same injury.

Another wrinkle that I just thought of: If I were Pop and knew that Manu was chosen to carry the Argentine flag I would have allowed him to go just for that reason. He couldn't have had surgery before the Olympics because he wouldn't have been able to carry the flag. If he goes to the opening cermeonies, it's only two more weeks until the end of the games, so he might as well play since he can't make it worse. You could rationalize it by saying if two weeks of games is the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs then you don't have a championship caliber team anyway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

One would think there was no way they were going to let him go to the Olympics with the same injury.

---

Manu would have played in the Olympics even if he had to risk a career ending injury ... and the Spurs would have been powerless to stop him. Even with this injury, they offered him ~$24M not to play (in the form of an extension) and he turned it down.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timvp

Manu would have played in the Olympics even if he had to risk a career ending injury ... and the Spurs would have been powerless to stop him. Even with this injury, they offered him ~$24M not to play (in the form of an extension) and he turned it down.

---

Yeah, I think it was brilliant for Argentina to designate him the flag-carrier. You know that sealed the deal.

My point was that the Spurs have zero influence over him. But you know, he's one of the top two players in the league when the game is on the line, and the bigger the game, the greater he is. The Spurs have him for a bargain and he gives you everythign and doesn't bitch about PT or starting or touches. He should really be allowed to have his one primadona moment, because he never really asks for anything at any other point. As soon as he comes back 100 percent from the surgery, the Spurs need to give him that contract without any discussion.

As I said after the season

Manu will play no matter what and most Argentinians knew that.

Strange that spurs fans do not know Manu good enough

The Bronze that will cost us a Larry.