Jeff Van Gundy: Ginobili Putting Off Surgery Put Spurs "At A Stark Disadvantage"

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Originally Posted by Manudona

I agree with you, and I highly doubt that anyone will provide the evidence you want for it is just speculation they try to present as facts

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Thank you, but don't mistake my statements as a suggestion that Manu is blameless in this situation. I'm pretty equally displeased with the incompetence of both parties in this fiasco.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

This isn't directed at you specifically, but I'm still waiting for some evidence that they would definitely have had the surgery in July. It seems like a rather large assumption. I'm not even sure how one would assume that Manu would have stayed in San Antonio just because it was the offseason.

Since San Antonio isn't the only city in the world with an MRI machine, I'm not sure how there's any excuse for not doing it whenever they wanted. What's Manu going to do, refuse to have one? If everyone knew he was potentially going to need surgery then the Spurs could have sent someone to take Manu to the doctor. It wouldn't have mattered if he was in Hawaii, Buenos Aires or Beijing. If they'd set a timetable to check his ankle a second time, they could have done it. It seems they didn't. I fail to see how that's on Manu.

It would have made the situation a lot simpler if the Spurs had said, "Of course you can go to the Olympics, but we want another MRI on X date, and if there's no improvement then you need to have surgery by Y date."

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There was a second MRI in early July. It's been talked about both in San Antonio and Argentine newspapers. The results of that MRI was the same as the result of the first MRI and the result of the most recent MRI. That's around the same time Pop was telling Manu not to play.

But obviously there isn't going to be official word from the Spurs saying that they told him to have surgery and he disobeyed their orders and went ahead and played in the Olympics. That very well could be what happened but with Pop in full Damage Control Mode right now trying to mend all fences between Manu and the Spurs, we would never hear that officially from anyone from the Spurs.

My guess of what happened is the Spurs knew that Manu needed surgery after the initial injections didn't help the injury. That's why Pop came out and said Manu needs to use caution when decided if he should play. The Spurs told Manu that the ligament is inflamed but he's not in increased danger of hurting himself in the Olympics. When Manu returned, he was going under the knife no matter if he hurt it again or not because the injury never healed.

The scenario could be different but I doubt it. Pop wouldn't have called out his own player in the media if he thought the matter wasn't important. The Spurs wanted Manu to take care of an ankle that was supposed to heal in two weeks that wasn't healed in two months. Manu opted instead to play in the Olympics -- which I think was very understandable.

The opinion that Manu and the Spurs are somehow better off that he got hurt in the Olympics is illogical to me because Manu never got healed in the first place so there was no way the Spurs would have let him go into training camp with the same injury he had in May.

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Originally Posted by T Park

After stating that fact, nothing can justify playing in the Olympics.

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There are many reasons for him to play in the Olympics. The problem is you are being selfish. It is all about you and what makes you feel good. You could care less about what Manu wants to do, what makes Manu happy. You want Manu to be as close as a slave as he can possibly be.

Again, I'm going to be all over you, ducks and the other fucks when you are kissing Manu's ass in next year's playoffs.

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Originally Posted by ducks

because he is more stubborn then pop
spurs threaten to put extension on hold and he still said who cares
I DO WHAT I WANT

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:lmao

Talk about a post that makes no sense. You are got dam stupid.

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Originally Posted by smeagol

Again, I'm going to be all over you, ducks and the other fucks when you are kissing Manu's ass in next year's playoffs.

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Why? They want him to do well then.

Well, maybe ducks doesn't....

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Originally Posted by T Park

When it affects the team I pay to watch and root for, yes it does.

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Thats very shallow. There is more to life than NBA basketball.

The more I think about it the more I think Manu made a mistake. I respect his right to make his own decisions, but I do think his priorities were out of whack here. I really really value playing for your country and I think the people who say there is a risk that you will get hurt and argue not playing for that reason are wrong. People can get hurt no matter what they do and fear of getting hurt shouldn't stop you from playing.

Now, that being said, playing while hurt is a completely different animal to me. I understand that this is what is most important to Manu, But he was really irresponsible in this decision if in fact he was already hurt (and I think most people recognize he was and why the Spurs didn't release the info publicly) and was already in need of surgery. Manu can afford to be irresponsible because he's so valuable to the Spurs but that doesn't mean it annoys me.

Sure, I'll be as happy as ever if Manu tears it up but thats not a given. We've seen just as many sub par playoffs from Manu as good playoffs. I do know this, if Manu doesn't tear it up he's not going to have the same kind of leeway from fans and he probably won't get the same type of respect from his team either. Contract extension talk? Don't think so.

So what his con years, anyways, Since i only started being a fan in 06.

Quick bit of trivia: I moved from Houston in like 04, and I went for the losing team when it came to Spurs vs Mavs in BOTH '05 and '06.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

This isn't directed at you specifically, but I'm still waiting for some evidence that they would definitely have had the surgery in July. It seems like a rather large assumption. I'm not even sure how one would assume that Manu would have stayed in San Antonio just because it was the offseason.

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Not hard to assume at all. Players carrying injuries put off sugery in-season or play-offs to have surgery in the off-season all the time. For Manu his off-season started as soon as the olympics finished

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

The more I think about it the more I think Manu made a mistake. I respect his right to make his own decisions, but I do think his priorities were out of whack here. I really really value playing for your country and I think the people who say there is a risk that you will get hurt and argue not playing for that reason are wrong. People can get hurt no matter what they do and fear of getting hurt shouldn't stop you from playing.

Now, that being said, playing while hurt is a completely different animal to me. I understand that this is what is most important to Manu, But he was really irresponsible in this decision if in fact he was already hurt (and I think most people recognize he was and why the Spurs didn't release the info publicly) and was already in need of surgery. Manu can afford to be irresponsible because he's so valuable to the Spurs but that doesn't mean it annoys me.

Sure, I'll be as happy as ever if Manu tears it up but thats not a given. We've seen just as many sub par playoffs from Manu as good playoffs. I do know this, if Manu doesn't tear it up he's not going to have the same kind of leeway from fans and he probably won't get the same type of respect from his team either. Contract extension talk? Don't think so.

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manny said what ducks was trying to say

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Originally Posted by ducks

manny said what ducks was trying to say

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Not rerally. Manny understands why Manu wanted to play in the Olympics (he simply does not agree with the decision). Actually, Manny thinks NBA players should be allowed to play in the Olympics.

ducks on the other hand . . .

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Originally Posted by timvp

The opinion that Manu and the Spurs are somehow better off that he got hurt in the Olympics is illogical to me because Manu never got healed in the first place so there was no way the Spurs would have let him go into training camp with the same injury he had in May.

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One would think there was no way they were going to let him go to the Olympics with the same injury.

Another wrinkle that I just thought of: If I were Pop and knew that Manu was chosen to carry the Argentine flag I would have allowed him to go just for that reason. He couldn't have had surgery before the Olympics because he wouldn't have been able to carry the flag. If he goes to the opening cermeonies, it's only two more weeks until the end of the games, so he might as well play since he can't make it worse. You could rationalize it by saying if two weeks of games is the difference between making the playoffs and not making the playoffs then you don't have a championship caliber team anyway.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

One would think there was no way they were going to let him go to the Olympics with the same injury.

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Manu would have played in the Olympics even if he had to risk a career ending injury ... and the Spurs would have been powerless to stop him. Even with this injury, they offered him ~$24M not to play (in the form of an extension) and he turned it down.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Manu would have played in the Olympics even if he had to risk a career ending injury ... and the Spurs would have been powerless to stop him. Even with this injury, they offered him ~$24M not to play (in the form of an extension) and he turned it down.

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Yeah, I think it was brilliant for Argentina to designate him the flag-carrier. You know that sealed the deal.

My point was that the Spurs have zero influence over him. But you know, he's one of the top two players in the league when the game is on the line, and the bigger the game, the greater he is. The Spurs have him for a bargain and he gives you everythign and doesn't bitch about PT or starting or touches. He should really be allowed to have his one primadona moment, because he never really asks for anything at any other point. As soon as he comes back 100 percent from the surgery, the Spurs need to give him that contract without any discussion.

As I said after the season

Manu will play no matter what and most Argentinians knew that.

Strange that spurs fans do not know Manu good enough

The Bronze that will cost us a Larry.