"McCain Wins Debate!" According to McCain Campaign Ad Already Running....

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Originally Posted by Washington Post

McCain Wins Debate

Although the fate of tonight's presidential debate in Mississippi remains very much up in the air, John McCain has apparently already won it -- if you believe an Internet ad an astute reader spotted next to this piece in the online edition of the Wall Street Journal this morning.

"McCain Wins Debate!" declares the ad which features a headshot of a smiling McCain with an American flag background. Another ad spotted by our eagle-eyed observer featured a quote from McCain campaign manager Rick Davis declaring: "McCain won the debate-- hands down."

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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...Friday_WSJ.JPG

:wtf :bang

:lmao

Whoops.

Of course, with Internet ads you never know where they came from.

:lmao A little premature ejac huh?....:lol

That must be the maverick way of managing the debate expectations.

Is this real? I mean come on, this is getting pathetic.

An artificial quote too! I missed it when I first opened this thread.

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Another ad spotted by our eagle-eyed observer featured a quote from McCain campaign manager Rick Davis declaring: "McCain won the debate-- hands down."

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:lol

It looks like this is real...

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Originally Posted by Google News search of "McCain Wins Debate"

McCain Wins Debate!
Washington Post, United States - 1 hour ago
"McCain Wins Debate!" declares the ad which features a headshot of a smiling McCain with an American flag background. Another ad spotted by our eagle-eyed ...

John McCain prematurely heralds debate win
Dallas Morning News, TX - 35 minutes ago
... this morning ran an ad showing McCain in front of an American flag. "McCain Wins Debate!" the ad says. Comments limited to 30 words or less are preferred.

McCain will debate but already declares victory
Pittsburgh Post Gazette, PA - 29 minutes ago
"McCain Wins Debate!" declares the ad, complete with a smiling candidate and American flag. A second ad quotes McCain campaign manager Rick Davis declaring: ...

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Originally Posted by Mr. Peabody

It looks like this is real...

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Even if he get TOTALLY destroyed tonight I doubt they would post "McCain took it in the ass" on his website...:lol

Now that's pathetic.

John McCain's campaign: Re-defining truthiness.

The other thing is to consider is that the McCain campaign said they weren't planning on attending the debates if a bailout agreement wasn't reached. How can that be true if they had started running ads saying McCain won the debates? Did he ever really consider not attending the debates or was it all grandstanding?

"My name is John McCain and I approved this ad. Even though I knew it wasn't true."

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Originally Posted by romad_20

Is this real? I mean come on, this is getting pathetic.

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I'm sure it is real, and was meant to run after the debate.
We recently had the gubernatorial debates here in IN, and minutes after the debates were finished, we received 3 statements in the newsroom..one from each candidate, claiming that they'd won the debate.

It's not "pathetic." That's the way it works.

I highly doubt McCain is to blame for it running early though.

It was most likely a mix up in a master control somewhere...an isolated incident.

I'm just saying that this sort of thing isn't uncommon in TV.
The start airdate could've been wrong in that particular station.

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Originally Posted by SpursFanFirst

I'm sure it is real, and was meant to run after the debate.
We recently had the gubernatorial debates here in IN, and minutes after the debates were finished, we received 3 statements in the newsroom..one from each candidate, claiming that they'd won the debate.

It's not "pathetic." That's the way it works.

I highly doubt McCain is to blame for it running early though.

It was most likely a mix up in a master control somewhere...an isolated incident.

I'm just saying that this sort of thing isn't uncommon in TV.
The start airdate could've been wrong in that particular station.

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That's about what I was thinking. I'd be willing to bet there are several places that already have Obama ads proclaiming debate victory sitting around waiting for a switch to be flipped, figuratively speaking.

Someone made a mistake in programming the ad, which has nothing to do with McCain or his campaign. Same thing happens with ads for TV shows, etc, sometimes (ie sometimes the commercial for the next week is shown instead of the current, ruining any plot twists).

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Originally Posted by Mr. Peabody

The other thing is to consider is that the McCain campaign said they weren't planning on attending the debates if a bailout agreement wasn't reached. How can that be true if they had started running ads saying McCain won the debates? Did he ever really consider not attending the debates or was it all grandstanding?

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Thats a very good question.

Did he win the election as well?

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Originally Posted by DarkReign

Thats a very good question.

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the only legitimate point of the thread.

How much do campaign managers get paid? Serious question.

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Originally Posted by Anti.Hero

How much do campaign managers get paid? Serious question.

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It was probably the mistake of some low-level staffer. They probably bought the slot starting today assuming it wouldn't run until after the debates and it just started running early.

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Originally Posted by DarkReign

Thats a very good question.

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Well, hell...just ask the campaign:

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Originally Posted by McCain Campaign

John McCain’s decision to suspend his campaign was made in the hopes that politics could be set aside to address our economic crisis.
In response, Americans saw a familiar spectacle in Washington. At a moment of crisis that threatened the economic security of American families, Washington played the blame game rather than work together to find a solution that would avert a collapse of financial markets without squandering hundreds of billions of taxpayers’ money to bailout bankers and brokers who bet their fortunes on unsafe lending practices.

Both parties in both houses of Congress and the administration needed to come together to find a solution that would deserve the trust of the American people. And while there were attempts to do that, much of yesterday was spent fighting over who would get the credit for a deal and who would get the blame for failure. There was no deal or offer yesterday that had a majority of support in Congress. There was no deal yesterday that included adequate protections for the taxpayers. It is not enough to cut deals behind closed doors and then try to force it on the rest of Congress — especially when it amounts to thousands of dollars for every American family.

The difference between Barack Obama and John McCain was apparent during the White House meeting yesterday where Barack Obama’s priority was political posturing in his opening monologue defending the package as it stands. John McCain listened to all sides so he could help focus the debate on finding a bipartisan resolution that is in the interest of taxpayers and homeowners. The Democratic interests stood together in opposition to an agreement that would accommodate additional taxpayer protections.

Senator McCain has spent the morning talking to members of the Administration, members of the Senate, and members of the House. He is optimistic that there has been significant progress toward a bipartisan agreement now that there is a framework for all parties to be represented in negotiations, including Representative Blunt as a designated negotiator for House Republicans. The McCain campaign is resuming all activities and the Senator will travel to the debate this afternoon. Following the debate, he will return to Washington to ensure that all voices and interests are represented in the final agreement, especially those of taxpayers and homeowners.

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Why speculate?

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Well, hell...just ask the campaign:


Why speculate?

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When they say that the "Democratic interests stood together" that surely must include the Republican Senators that were also opposing the House Republican plan? Right? Because otherwise the statement is misleading.

Also, I call bullshit on the McCain campaign's assertion that he decided to attend the debates this morning after meeting with House Republicans.

Per Politico

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Originally Posted by Politico.com

McCain got in some prep last night

John McCain did a few hours of high-level debate prep in his Arlington, Va., condo last night with podiums and mock questions, a top aide said today.

After taping interviews for the evening newscasts, McCain returned home and practiced for his first faceoff with Barack Obama, a session that included aides tossing out potential questions and coaching his performance, Mark Salter said to the campaign pool reporter en route from Washington to Memphis. Apparently, the practice took place between phone calls, as McCain aides said last night he had been working the phones with congressional leaders and administration officials.

Salter wouldn’t say who, if anyone, played the role of Obama.

Asked about tonight’s goal, he said: “To do well, against a guy who’s a pretty good debater, show presidential leadership and be able to speak directly to the American people about what he believes.”

McCain will return to Washington tonight after the debate.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Well, hell...just ask the campaign:


Why speculate?

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Yes because political campaigns never mislead the public.

http://www.cantstopthebleeding.com/i...eatdebater.jpg

http://multimedia.heraldinteractive....sTradeM315.jpg

This one actually hurts me:

http://www.cadenhead.org/workbench/g...hamps-2006.jpg

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

Yes because political campaigns never mislead the public.

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Sure they do - it's the only way Obama can win this election!

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Originally Posted by Crookshanks

Sure they do - it's the only way Obama can win this election!

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I agree. The McCain campaign's much discussed dishonesty is helping Obama win the election.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Peabody

It was probably the mistake of some low-level staffer. They probably bought the slot starting today assuming it wouldn't run until after the debates and it just started running early.

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Or the website/ad network people started running it early. Typically ads are sent to websites a few days in advance. McCain's campaign may have already been running advertising with them, and they just trafficked the new ad in too early.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Peabody

I agree. The McCain campaign's much discussed dishonesty is helping Obama win the election.

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Much discussed, I agree...however, short on any supporting evidence of there actually being a lie.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Much discussed, I agree...however, short on any supporting evidence of there actually being a lie.

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"I told congress thanks but no thanks on that bridge to nowhere."

It's hard to tell congress no thanks on something they already killed.

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When she finally changed her position in 2007, it was only after Congress had removed the earmark.

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There's one lie. You want some more?

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Originally Posted by Crookshanks

Sure they do - it's the only way Obama can win this election!

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:lmao

Oooooh man, you are hilarious! Hahahaa...holy shit....

Wow....hehe.....*whew*...

Boy, you sure are a joker, eh? :lol

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Originally Posted by Mr. Peabody

Also, I call bullshit on the McCain campaign's assertion that he decided to attend the debates this morning after meeting with House Republicans.

Per Politico

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Well, McCain was just trying to push the debates back a week or so, so it wouldn't be strange to continue prepping. That in depth of a practice is weird unless he was at least leaning towards going to the debate by then, though. They usually don't get to the props and crap until a day or two before.

But I like how well that fits in with Obama's comments about a President should be able to do multiple things at once. McCain practices while making and taking phone calls trying to reach a bipartison bail out after recording interviews earlier.

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

"I told congress thanks but no thanks on that bridge to nowhere."

It's hard to tell congress no thanks on something they already killed.

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Alaska still got the earmarked money, it was just released from being spent on the "Bridge to Nowhere" and, as Governor Palin said, she killed the bridge by allocating the money elsewhere.

Until John McCain selected her as his running mate, it never occurred to anyone to deny that Palin stopped the bridge. That's certainly what the Anchorage Daily News reported on February 8, 2008:

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Originally Posted by ADN

Let's count how many things Gov. Sarah Palin's predecessor did that she's undone.
It's quite a list.

The state-owned jet: Sold.

The proposed Gravina Island "bridge to nowhere" and a pioneer road to Juneau: Won't be funded.

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And again on March 12, 2008:

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Originally Posted by ADN

Alaska Sen. Ted Stevens is aggravated about what he sees as Gov. Sarah Palin's antagonism toward the earmarks he uses to steer federal money to the state. ... A common target for earmark snipers is the so-called "bridge to nowhere" plugged by Alaska Rep. Don Young into the five-year transportation bill in 2005. Congress stripped the earmarks directing the spending but let the state keep the money to use on the bridge if it wanted.
Palin ruffled feathers when she announced - without giving the delegation advance notice - that the state was killing the Ketchikan bridge to Gravina Island, site of the airport and a few dozen residents.

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I don't know how it could be any clearer: as the McCain ad says, Palin killed the bridge. Indeed, the Alaska Democrats themselves say, on a web site attacking Senator Ted Stevens:

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Originally Posted by Alaska Democrats

Gov. Palin recently cancelled the Gravina Island Bridge near Ketchikan that would have connected the Alaska mainland with Gravina Island (population: 50).

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It is frankly ridiculous to deny that Palin killed the bridge, as the ad says. If the Democrats want to attack some other aspect of her record, fine. If they want to say that she (like all state officials) was generally happy to accept federal money when it was offered, fine. But to say that the simple statement that she killed the bridge is a "lie" is false and disingenuous.

Obama and Biden both voted to spend federal money on the bridge rather than use the money to help victims of Hurricane Katrina. This isn't because they actually thought it was a good idea, of course. It's because they are part and parcel of the corrupt earmark system and wanted to preserve their ability to direct money to their own pet projects without any accountability.

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

There's one lie. You want some more?

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Sure, fire away, Sharpie.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Alaska still got the earmarked money, it was just released from being spent on the "Bridge to Nowhere" and, as Governor Palin said, she killed the bridge by allocating the money elsewhere.

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That's not what she said. It's clear in her statement, "I told congress thanks but no thanks" that she was saying she refused the earmark. God you're hopeless.

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Originally Posted by Rush Limbaugh

Sure, fire away, Sharpie.

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The ad claims "Obama's one accomplishment" in the realm of education was "legislation to teach 'comprehensive sex education' to kindergarteners."

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It's true that the phrase "comprehensive sex education" appeared in the bill, but little else in McCain's claim is accurate. The ad refers to a bill Obama supported in the Illinois state Senate to update the sex education curriculum and make it "medically accurate." It would have lowered the age at which students would begin what the bill termed "comprehensive sex education" to include kindergarten. But it mandated the instruction be "age-appropriate" for kindergarteners when addressing topics such as sexually transmitted diseases. The bill also would have granted parents the opportunity to remove their children from the class without question:

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The ad implies that Obama wanted to teach comprehensive sex education to kindergarteners. That's just a flat out lie.

LIES about Social Security: McCain was asked about privatization and replied that "I am not for quote ‘privatization of Social Security.’ I never have been, never will be!"

TRUTH: In March 2008, the Wall Street Journal reported that in an interview McCain said he "still backs a system of private retirement accounts that President Bush pushed unsuccessfully." The Journal also noted that "a centerpiece of a McCain presidential bid in 2000 was a plan to divert a portion of Social Security payroll taxes to fund private accounts."

LIES about preserving the Everglades: McCain explained in June 2008 that he is "in favor of doing whatever’s necessary to save the Everglades," which he called "one of America’s greatest natural treasures."

TRUTH: As the Miami Herald reported, McCain voted against a 2007 bill that would provide 2 billion to Everglade restoration. He also "did not participate in the landmark debate over the state-federal partnership to preserve the Everglades in 2000," and was "out of town" for the subsequent 85-1 vote in the Senate.

LIES about Hurricane Katrina: At a town hall meeting in Baton Rouge on June 3, 2008, McCain said regarding government failure in the aftermath of Katrina that he has "supported every investigation and ways of finding out what caused the tragedy."

TRUTH: In September 2005, McCain joined conservatives in voting against "establishing a commission to investigate the levee failures" that occurred during hurricane Katrina. In 2006, McCain also opposed a commission to study the federal government’s response to Hurricane Katrina.

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

LIES about Social Security: McCain was asked about privatization and replied that "I am not for quote ‘privatization of Social Security.’ I never have been, never will be!"

TRUTH: In March 2008, the Wall Street Journal reported that in an interview McCain said he "still backs a system of private retirement accounts that President Bush pushed unsuccessfully." The Journal also noted that "a centerpiece of a McCain presidential bid in 2000 was a plan to divert a portion of Social Security payroll taxes to fund private accounts."

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When did he make the first statement? Was he talking about complete privatization or partial...such as was being proposed by President Bush?

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

LIES about preserving the Everglades: McCain explained in June 2008 that he is "in favor of doing whatever’s necessary to save the Everglades," which he called "one of America’s greatest natural treasures."

TRUTH: As the Miami Herald reported, McCain voted against a 2007 bill that would provide 2 billion to Everglade restoration. He also "did not participate in the landmark debate over the state-federal partnership to preserve the Everglades in 2000," and was "out of town" for the subsequent 85-1 vote in the Senate.

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Maybe he believed the 2007 bill was unnecessary.

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

LIES about Hurricane Katrina: At a town hall meeting in Baton Rouge on June 3, 2008, McCain said regarding government failure in the aftermath of Katrina that he has "supported every investigation and ways of finding out what caused the tragedy."

TRUTH: In September 2005, McCain joined conservatives in voting against "establishing a commission to investigate the levee failures" that occurred during hurricane Katrina. In 2006, McCain also opposed a commission to study the federal government’s response to Hurricane Katrina.

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Supporting the creation of yet another commission and supporting actual, ongoing investigations, are two different things.

Next?

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Next?

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"McCain wins debate."

Yoni is too easy these days.

Here ya go!

LIES about the supporting the troops: McCain claims to have fought for passage of the bill and often claims that he always puts the welfare of the troops first.

TRUTH: McCain initially refused to co-sponsor Sen. Jim Webb’s 21st Century GI Bill of Rights, because of concerns that it did not have "incentives for people to stay in the military." Instead of joining the other 56 co-sponsors and Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans for America in pushing through Webb’s bill, McCain drafted his own bill which was "more focused on career officers, not the entire volunteer military force."

3. LIES about Bush's illegal wiretapping: The New York Times reported that a letter from top McCain adviser Douglas Holtz-Eakin said that McCain believes that the Constitution gave President Bush the authority to wiretap Americans "without warrants." The letter says that "neither the Administration nor the telecoms need apologize for actions that most people, except for the ACLU and the trial lawyers, understand were Constitutional and appropriate in the wake of the attacks on September 11, 2001."

TRUTH: In an interview with the Boston Globe in December 2007, McCain was asked if, as President, he would ever authorize illegal wiretapping. "I think that presidents have the obligation to obey and enforce laws that are passed by Congress and signed into law by the president, no matter what the situation is," he said. "I don’t think the president has the right to disobey any law."

4. LIES about preventing the spread of AIDS in Africa: McCain was asked whether he supports taxpayer funding for contraception in Africa, with the goal of preventing the spread of AIDS. McCain replied that he would rather fund abstinence education, but would provide contraception where abstinence "was not being followed."

TRUTH: After realizing how his remarks would be interpreted, McCain said "Let me think about it a little bit ... I don’t know if I would use taxpayers’ money ... I’m not informed enough on it. Let me find out ... I’m sure I have taken a position on it in the past ... I have to find out my position on it ... I am sure I am opposed to government funding. I am sure I support the president’s policy on it." He then said that "I’m sure I’ve taken a position on it in the past. I have to find out what my position was," and asked an aide "Brian, would you find out what my position is on contraception?"

5. LIES about the Paris Hilton tax: In a June 2006 speech on the Senate floor, McCain expressed his belief in "the essential morality of the estate tax," and explained that he has "consistently voted against repealing this tax because of the impact it would have on the deficit, as well as the possible chilling affect it could have on charitable giving in this country."

TRUTH: In June 2008, McCain delivered a speech before the National Federation of Independent Business in Washington in which he called the tax "one of the most unfair tax laws on the books."

6. LIES on nuclear waste storage: In a speech in Reno, NV, McCain announced that he would seek to establish an international repository for spent nuclear fuel that would "make it unnecessary to open the proposed spent nuclear fuel storage facility at Yucca Mountain in Nevada."

TRUTH: In March 2007, McCain told the Utah Deseret News that he is "for Yucca Mountain. I’m for storage facilities." In May 2008, McCain advisor Douglas Holtz-Eakin told Reuters that "the political opposition to the Yucca Mountain storage facility is harmful to the U.S. interest and the facility should be completed, opened and utilized."

7. LIES about Cuba: In 2000, McCain said in an interview on CNN’s Late Edition that he is "not in favor of sticking my finger in the eye of Fidel Castro. In fact, I would favor a road map towards normalization of relations such as we presented to the Vietnamese and led to a normalization of relations between our two countries."

TRUTH: On the campaign trail against Barack Obama, McCain told Cuban-Americans in Florida "that he would maintain the decades-old U.S. trade embargo on Cuba if he is elected president."

LIES about Bush's tax cuts: In 2001 and 2003 McCain opposed President Bush’s tax cuts, saying on the Senate floor that "I cannot in good conscience support a tax cut in which so many of the benefits go to the most fortunate among us at the expense of middle-class Americans who need tax relief."

TRUTH: McCain praised the tax cuts throughout the Republican Primary, and called for the tax cuts to be made permanent. "Well, I think the worst thing we can do right now, Chris, is — we’ve got some shaky economic times — is to increase people’s taxes," he said. "And I think that what we need is more tax cuts. We need to make the Bush tax cuts permanent."

11. LIES on the budget deficit: Fortune reported in February that McCain "pledges to balance the budget by 2012, not by increasing taxes, but by vetoing all pork barrel spending, and curbing outlays for Social Security and Medicare."

TRUTH: The same day, it was reported that McCain’s economic adviser, Douglas Holtz-Eakin said "McCain’s overall goal is to balance the budget by the end of his second term," or 2017.

12. MORE LIES about the budget deficit: In June, the McCain campaign came back to its original pledge, with Holtz-Eakin saying that McCain’s economic plan, "when appropriately phased in, as it has always been intended to be, will bring the budget to balance by the end of his first term."

TRUTH: Holtz-Eakin said at a symposium sponsored by the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget that "I would like the next president not to talk about deficit reduction," adding that "if the war and the personal and corporate tax cuts that Mr. McCain advocated added to the federal deficit and debt, so be it."

13. LIES about diplomacy: In 2008, McCain said that Senator Obama was showing "naiveté and inexperience and lack of judgment" because of his willingness to meet with U.S. foes.

TRUTH: During an interview in 2006 with Sky News’ James Rubin (now of the Washington Post), McCain was asked "Do you think that American diplomats should be operating the way they have in the past, working with the Palestinian government if Hamas is now in charge?" McCain answered that "they’re the government; sooner or later we are going to have to deal with them, one way or another, and I understand why this administration and previous administrations had such antipathy towards Hamas because of their dedication to violence and the things that they not only espouse but practice, but it’s a new reality in the Middle East."

MORE TRUTH: In 2003, then-Secretary of State Colin Powell was heavily criticized for agreeing to visit Syria. McCain defended Powell, saying that "Colin Powell is going to look [President] Bashar Assad in the eye and say, look, you know. You better clean up your act here. It’s a new day in the Middle East. And I think it’s entirely appropriate to do that," despite his admission that "I think they’re–they’re sponsoring and harboring terrorists."

14. LIES about ending US military presence in Iraq: In 2005, McCain was asked about a long term U.S. troop presence in Iraq. "I not only think we could get along without it, but I think one of our big problems has been the fact that many Iraqis resent American military presence," he replied. "And I don‘t pretend to know exactly Iraqi public opinion. But as soon as we can reduce our visibility as much as possible, the better I think it is going to be."

TRUTH: At a town hall meeting in NH in January 2008, McCain said that it would be "fine" to keep troops in Iraq for a "hundred" years. "Make it a hundred. We’ve been in South Korea ... we’ve been in Japan for 60 years. We’ve been in South Korea 50 years or so. That would be fine with me."

15. LIES about his assessment of Bush's legacy: McCain appeared on Bloomberg TV saying that "Americans are not better off than they were eight years ago."

TRUTH: The day before, McCain was on Bloomberg saying "if Americans were asked, are you better off today than you were before George Bush took office more than seven years ago, what answer would they give?" He replied that "I think if you look at the overall record and millions of jobs have been created, et cetera, et cetera, you could make an argument that there’s been great progress economically over that period of time. But that’s no comfort."

16. LIES about earmarks: In a Fox News Presidential Forum, McCain claimed that "in 24 years as a member of Congress, I have never asked for nor received a single earmark or pork barrel project for my state."

TRUTH: In 2006, McCain funneled $10 million towards the University of Arizona for an academic center. In 2003, he also sent $14.3 million from a defense appropriations bill to Arizona’s Luke Air Force Base.

LIE - Sarah Palin never took earmarks.

TRUTH - McCain often criticizes Obama for taking $311 million back to his state of about 13 million people last year, but then has the audacity to claim that his VP pick is against government waste though she secured nearly $800 million for Alaska's 700,000 people over the same time span, notorious for being by far the largest per capita request in the nation.

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

That's not what she said. It's clear in her statement, "I told congress thanks but no thanks" that she was saying she refused the earmark. God you're hopeless.

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Then why do you persist? Look the bridge didn't get built and the only reason it didn't get built is because Governor Palin took the earmarked money and spent it elsewhere -- on things, in her judgement, more worthy than the bridge. In effect she killed the bridge to nowhere. Spin it however you like, that's what happened.

She said "thanks but no thanks" on the bridge to nowhere. See, we disagree. Reasonable people do that and that doesn't make either of us a liar. You can parse her words any way you like, that doesn't mean she lied.

If you want to investigate a meaninful lie, let's look at what Obama has said about his relationship with Bill Ayers, the unrepentent terrorist who, as late as 2002 -- well after he began a relationship with Ayers.

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

The ad implies that Obama wanted to teach comprehensive sex education to kindergarteners. That's just a flat out lie.

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Really? Are you saying that comprehensive sex education wasn't a part of that legislation? Because, until now, the argument has been that it was not the principal reason of the legislation -- not that it wasn't included in the legislation. Which is it?

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

LIE - Sarah Palin never took earmarks.

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Source?

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

TRUTH - McCain often criticizes Obama for taking $311 million back to his state of about 13 million people last year, but then has the audacity to claim that his VP pick is against government waste though she secured nearly $800 million for Alaska's 700,000 people over the same time span, notorious for being by far the largest per capita request in the nation.

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Non sequitur. You don't address the alleged lie.

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Really? Are you saying that comprehensive sex education wasn't a part of that legislation?

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Sex education for kindergarteners consists of teaching them how to avoid sexual predators and turn them in if they are victimized by them.

I'm glad Yoni has me on ignore, because I don't want to read why he opposes that.

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

LIES about Bush's tax cuts: In 2001 and 2003 McCain opposed President Bush’s tax cuts, saying on the Senate floor that "I cannot in good conscience support a tax cut in which so many of the benefits go to the most fortunate among us at the expense of middle-class Americans who need tax relief."

TRUTH: McCain praised the tax cuts throughout the Republican Primary, and called for the tax cuts to be made permanent. "Well, I think the worst thing we can do right now, Chris, is — we’ve got some shaky economic times — is to increase people’s taxes," he said. "And I think that what we need is more tax cuts. We need to make the Bush tax cuts permanent."

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Well, maybe he was wrong in 2001 and 2003 and now realizes it. That doesn't make it a lie. Hell, Obama was wrong about the surge and I don't accuse him of lying about be against it ... I accuse him of being wrong. And, if, in fact McCain said this in 2001 and 2003, he was wrong...and history has proven it.

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

11. LIES on the budget deficit: Fortune reported in February that McCain "pledges to balance the budget by 2012, not by increasing taxes, but by vetoing all pork barrel spending, and curbing outlays for Social Security and Medicare."

TRUTH: The same day, it was reported that McCain’s economic adviser, Douglas Holtz-Eakin said "McCain’s overall goal is to balance the budget by the end of his second term," or 2017.

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Either somebody is mistaken or mixed up. That doesn't make it a lie.

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

12. MORE LIES about the budget deficit: In June, the McCain campaign came back to its original pledge, with Holtz-Eakin saying that McCain’s economic plan, "when appropriately phased in, as it has always been intended to be, will bring the budget to balance by the end of his first term."

TRUTH: Holtz-Eakin said at a symposium sponsored by the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget that "I would like the next president not to talk about deficit reduction," adding that "if the war and the personal and corporate tax cuts that Mr. McCain advocated added to the federal deficit and debt, so be it."

13. LIES about diplomacy: In 2008, McCain said that Senator Obama was showing "naiveté and inexperience and lack of judgment" because of his willingness to meet with U.S. foes.

TRUTH: During an interview in 2006 with Sky News’ James Rubin (now of the Washington Post), McCain was asked "Do you think that American diplomats should be operating the way they have in the past, working with the Palestinian government if Hamas is now in charge?" McCain answered that "they’re the government; sooner or later we are going to have to deal with them, one way or another, and I understand why this administration and previous administrations had such antipathy towards Hamas because of their dedication to violence and the things that they not only espouse but practice, but it’s a new reality in the Middle East."

MORE TRUTH: In 2003, then-Secretary of State Colin Powell was heavily criticized for agreeing to visit Syria. McCain defended Powell, saying that "Colin Powell is going to look [President] Bashar Assad in the eye and say, look, you know. You better clean up your act here. It’s a new day in the Middle East. And I think it’s entirely appropriate to do that," despite his admission that "I think they’re–they’re sponsoring and harboring terrorists."

14. LIES about ending US military presence in Iraq: In 2005, McCain was asked about a long term U.S. troop presence in Iraq. "I not only think we could get along without it, but I think one of our big problems has been the fact that many Iraqis resent American military presence," he replied. "And I don‘t pretend to know exactly Iraqi public opinion. But as soon as we can reduce our visibility as much as possible, the better I think it is going to be."

TRUTH: At a town hall meeting in NH in January 2008, McCain said that it would be "fine" to keep troops in Iraq for a "hundred" years. "Make it a hundred. We’ve been in South Korea ... we’ve been in Japan for 60 years. We’ve been in South Korea 50 years or so. That would be fine with me."

15. LIES about his assessment of Bush's legacy: McCain appeared on Bloomberg TV saying that "Americans are not better off than they were eight years ago."

TRUTH: The day before, McCain was on Bloomberg saying "if Americans were asked, are you better off today than you were before George Bush took office more than seven years ago, what answer would they give?" He replied that "I think if you look at the overall record and millions of jobs have been created, et cetera, et cetera, you could make an argument that there’s been great progress economically over that period of time. But that’s no comfort."

16. LIES about earmarks: In a Fox News Presidential Forum, McCain claimed that "in 24 years as a member of Congress, I have never asked for nor received a single earmark or pork barrel project for my state."

TRUTH: In 2006, McCain funneled $10 million towards the University of Arizona for an academic center. In 2003, he also sent $14.3 million from a defense appropriations bill to Arizona’s Luke Air Force Base.

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And on and on and on you go with similar "lies" that could just as easily be explained.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Source?

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0:36 mark

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

And on and on and on you go with similar "lies" that could just as easily be explained.

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Please explain them. I want to learn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Non sequitur. You don't address the alleged lie.

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Me thinks it says she got $800 million. It says it right there.

Quote:

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VP pick is against government waste though she secured nearly $800 million for Alaska's 700,000 people over the same time span, notorious for being by far the largest per capita request in the nation.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

Please explain them. I want to learn.

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Then go educate yourself. You're asking for more than the cut and paste you did to pose the question. So, where did you come up with such a biased, out of context, pack of words?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Sex education for kindergarteners consists of teaching them how to avoid sexual predators and turn them in if they are victimized by them.

I'm glad Yoni has me on ignore, because I don't want to read why he opposes that.

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That's sort of irrelevant. The bill mandates age appropriate materials, but doesn't define age appropriate, leaving that to the individual school districts to determine. In effect, the bill does authorize comprehensive sex education for kindergardners (as long as the school district decides that's age appropriate).

It's not the intent of the bill, and not the usage of it, but the bill does allow for comprehensive sex education to people as young as kindergardners.

Of course, to claim that Obama supported teach comprehensive sex education to K, you'd have to prove he expected that the school districts would decide that that was age appropriate (which no one in their right mind would assume), but Obama did support legislation that legally authorized it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

Me thinks it says she got $800 million. It says it right there.

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You said the lie was that, and I quote, "Sarah Palin never took earmarks." When and who said that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Then go educate yourself.

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No no no I want to learn how they're not lies. You seem to know so you should educate me. I already believe they are lies.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

You said the lie was that, and I quote, "Sarah Palin never took earmarks." When and who said that?

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John McCain said it. Watch the youtube video I posted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

0:36 mark

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Well, that wasn't the point of the question posed and clearly, he was wrong. We all know she took the earmarked money for the bridge to nowwhere and spent it.

I'd claim he mispoke. It wasn't even the main point of his response.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Well, that wasn't the point of the question posed and clearly, he was wrong. We all know she took the earmarked money for the bridge to nowwhere and spent it.

I'd claim he mispoke. It wasn't even the main point of his response.

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:lmao You are unbelievable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

:lmao You are unbelievable.

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No, youre just a tad new.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DarkReign

No, youre just a tad new.

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I overestimated him I guess.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

Me thinks it says she got $800 million. It says it right there.

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Here's something interesting I found regarding that. *cannot vouch for accuracy*: http://www.cleveland.com/news/plaind...570.xml&coll=2

for FY 2007 by Palin's predecessor, he submitted 63 earmarks for $350 mil.

In Palin's first year, that became 52 earmarks for $256 million

The next year it dropped to 31 earmarks and $197 million.

That totals $803 million that went into the budget while she was in office, even though she only requested $453 mil of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

I overestimated him I guess.

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Under your standards, Joe Biden is the biggest liar in the race, followed by Barak Obama.

None of what you posted amount to lies when they could just as easily be explained away by the circumstances surrounding the statements, the time elapsed between the conflicing statements, or the changes in circumstances between when the statement are made.

You want to call them lies, so you do. Go ahead. It doesn't make it so.

Yonivore shall now be known as....

Taupe Armageddon Palin!!!

http://politsk.blogspot.com/2008/09/sarah_13.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

Yonivore shall now be known as....

Taupe Armageddon Palin!!!

http://politsk.blogspot.com/2008/09/sarah_13.html

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I'm Gravel Blood Palin. Kind of a grim name. Sets me up to die in a traffic accident I guess.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr. Peabody

I'm Gravel Blood Palin. Kind of a grim name. Sets me up to die in a traffic accident I guess.

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I got an awesome name

Stinger Assassin Palin.

Hey, Shasta; want to see how you document a lie?

In October 2007, Senator Joe Biden introduced and sponsored Amendment 2997 in the US Senate.

It was an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008 and its purpose was- "To express the sense of Congress on federalism in Iraq."

MSNBC described Biden's federalism bill:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MSNBC

In a strong rebuff to the Bush Administration on Iraq, the Senate overwhelming approved a plan by Biden that essentially calls for breaking Iraq into three sections: Kurd, Sunni, and Shia... The measure also calls on the five permanent members of the United Nations and members of the international community to convene a conference to help the Iraqis set up the federal regions.

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The bill passed.

The Iraqis were furious. They protested in the streets and called a special meeting in parliament to reply to the U.S. Congress resolution on the division of Iraq into three Shiite, Kurdish and Sunni entities.

Now, Joe Biden is denying he ever pushed the federalism bill.

So what is the liberal media saying about this outright lie by Joe Biden? Nothing.

I guess it's just Joe being Joe. No. That is a lie.

Quote:

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15615, if you were born to Sarah Palin, your name would be:
Hen Waffle Palin

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Hey, Shasta; want to see how you document a lie?

In October 2007, Senator Joe Biden introduced and sponsored Amendment 2997 in the US Senate.

It was an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008 and its purpose was- "To express the sense of Congress on federalism in Iraq."

MSNBC described Biden's federalism bill:


The bill passed.

The Iraqis were furious. They protested in the streets and called a special meeting in parliament to reply to the U.S. Congress resolution on the division of Iraq into three Shiite, Kurdish and Sunni entities.

Now, Joe Biden is denying he ever pushed the federalism bill.

So what is the liberal media saying about this outright lie by Joe Biden? Nothing.

I guess it's just Joe being Joe. No. That is a lie.

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That's neat-o. Doesn't change the fact that McCain and Palin lie as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

That's neat-o. Doesn't change the fact that McCain and Palin lie as well.

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You've yet to document one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

You've yet to document one.

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:lmao maybe in your eyes

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Hey, Shasta; want to see how you document a lie?

In October 2007, Senator Joe Biden introduced and sponsored Amendment 2997 in the US Senate.

It was an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2008 and its purpose was- "To express the sense of Congress on federalism in Iraq."

MSNBC described Biden's federalism bill:


The bill passed.

The Iraqis were furious. They protested in the streets and called a special meeting in parliament to reply to the U.S. Congress resolution on the division of Iraq into three Shiite, Kurdish and Sunni entities.

Now, Joe Biden is denying he ever pushed the federalism bill.

So what is the liberal media saying about this outright lie by Joe Biden? Nothing.

I guess it's just Joe being Joe. No. That is a lie.

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You dummy lol. Biden isn't lying there. He's trying to state the difference between "partitioning" and federalism. People labeled his legislation as a partition and he's always hated that term. If that clip were longer than 24 seconds you may have gotten a clue instead of making yourself look like an ass.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...100201824.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hitmanyr2k

You dummy lol. Biden isn't lying there. He's trying to state the difference between "partitioning" and federalism. People labeled his legislation as a partition and he's always hated that term. If that clip were longer than 24 seconds you may have gotten a clue instead of making yourself look like an ass.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...100201824.html

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Please...don't apply logic or insight to Yonivore's posts. It's futile to try and make him admit he's wrong.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

Please...don't apply logic or insight to Yonivore's posts. It's futile to try and make him admit he's wrong.

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I don't need him to admit anything. I'm sure he knows it :lol

The McCain campaign may want to get their money back on that ad.

So did the McCain camp still run those ads today or did they decide not to?