We could probably do this right now and get the same responses we'll get tomorrow, so why wait?
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We could probably do this right now and get the same responses we'll get tomorrow, so why wait?
"My wife is common street trash."
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by romad_20
Nice catch on the reference.
McCain's campaign already said he won, and the bailout situation has been resolved because he wouldn't leave Washington until it was.
McCain wins just by being there.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
He wasn't expected to even show up, so how high can expectations really be for him?
It's like when you hear a rumor that Santana may cancel the concert you have tickets for, but then he doesn't and no matter how he played, you're happy he didn't cancel.
fox says obama's gonna get creamed tonight. interesting they said "creamed".
Is this at a table where they sit close to one another or podium? I think McCain might punch Obama if they are close, he looked super pissed at the Whitehouse meeting.
I think the crowd will boo McCain a couple of times and Obama will keep saying the same stuff he's been saying. Nothing ground breaking.
I expect both to hit home runs.
They are standing at podiums that are about 10-15 feet apart.Quote:
Originally Posted by romad_20
I'm wondering whether they have a deal in place to account for the height discrepancy between the two. During the Bush-Kerry debates, as part of the debate agreements, the feeds had to make them appear equal size on the split screens.
napoleon syndrome?
I thought Lehrer did a good job.
Obama and it was not close.............
I think Obama won because he really talked about changing things tonight and kept on course. McCain, IMO, just gave us more of the same & why he's always thinks he's right b/c he's been around too effin' long.
They both did okay but my vote for the debate goes to Obama.
I think it was close with a slight edge to McCain
Cleary, the winner tonight was the American people.Quote:
So who won tonight's debate....?
(have I induced mass vomiting yet?)
I think McCain won overall, but Obama killed him on Iraq. This election definitely isn't over yet.
So who won?
Every channel that didn't have debate coverage.
I doubt it. I'm sure this debate got huge ratings. This is one of the most followed elections in the history of this country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Buddy Holly
I was right. I voted for Lehrer.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26906945?GT1=43001
49% vs 37% Obama
Cool poll. I picked all of them. I think they all looked better after than before and may God have mercy on our souls.
How can anyone vote the last choice? This wasn't Bush/Gore by any stretch.
I voted before the debate and didn't want to vote for either candidate before the debate took place. Plus, I thought the last option was kind of funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
This Poll needs one more option: "None of the above". I would have voted for that.
I voted for the last just because I starting zoning out in the end.
Well, the last option was supposed to be my "none of the above, " but it is a dismissive option for a good debate.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Depends on the issue...
Economy: Push
Iraq: McCain
Afghanistan: Obama
Russia: McCain
9/11: Obama
Tiebreaker - Stage Presence. (Who looked more Presidential?) I give this to McCain
McCain did a great job of name dropping and emphasizing his experience. I thought the "Obama just doesn't get it" theme was well utilized until the last few segments where I thought it was probably overutilized.
I guess by the scorecard it would go to McCain but I think they both had a good showing.
Shit, I forgot Iran... I give that to Obama. I'm sorry but I'm completely open to face to face no precondition meetings as a last resort before bombing the shit out of a country.
good civil debate. McCain held his own on the economy and won by a big margin on defense. I was shocked that McCain would do this well and would speak that passionately.
My opinion of Obama went up though. He's a cool cat.
How did McCain look presidential? He didn't make eye contact at all, kept staring down. Obama locked eyes on the camera and McCain both, real important a president can stand off like that.
IRAN: we want to kill all jewsQuote:
Originally Posted by Spurminator
US: No you're not
end of discussion. that was good.
I liked that Obama looked directly at McCain but I think McCain's giving Obama the cold shoulder was a debate strategy. When McCain was speaking he was looking at Lehrer.Quote:
Originally Posted by dg7md
It would've been good has it not been hyperbole. McCain was acting like a message board poster on that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2centsworth
That was funny, but even that dialogue is preferable to none at all before war.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2centsworth
Obama
You think they would have stared with the 10,000 or so Jews that live in Iran.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2centsworth
Who won? Nobody.
Who came away doing what they needed to do? Obama.
McCain needed a game changer. He didn't get it. With Palin coming up it could all be over quick.
McCain wants to kill Iranians by giving them cigs.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2centsworth
Seriously, the Israel comment by Ahmadinejad is just fucking politics. Yes, politics exists in the Middle East. Nothing will ever happen. Turn your eyes away from Fox noise and you might go one day not fearing for your life.
I think the majority of people decide mostly based upon their feel for the debate and not as much the contents. (see Bush- Gore) I believe the majority will go with Obama because McCain came across as condescending and dismissive. I do not think that tactic worked of trying to act as if Obama did not know what he was talking about when he had just very clearly and intelligently explained his position. I also believe that McCain's unwillingness to look at Obama and looking down so much were bad.
In terms of the big picture, McCain needed a decisive victory and at best he got a tie in the debate that was supposed to be to his strength.
In High Def- McCain looked bad, too. The layers of caked on make-up were too much. It almost looked like a mask.
I think it is interesting that some men would call McCain presidential when I did not think he looked that way at all. It confirmed for me that his temperament is not good for the job. I prefer a quiet strength and I think a lot of other women do, too.
yeah, he's change we can believe in.......we are going communist. believe it.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Blonde
let's fight the power. bring your guns, join me. we'll bring washington down.Quote:
Originally Posted by cool hand
If this was supposed to be McWorse's debate because of foreign policy, it certainly wasn't McWorse domination. For that alone, it was a loss for McOldFart.
Quite the contrary, the majority of polls, focus groups, etc are saying not only did HUSSEIN hold his own, but that he won.
McSicko's total refusal, chickenshit?, to look at HUSSEIN was weird, contrived.
McWorse is totally wooden, unnatural, no style, stringing run-on, often irrelevant shit together, phrase by phrase, as it pops into his feeble brain, rather than "speaking in paragraphs" with a hierarchy of ideas supporting his points.
"you're wrong" is weak. The point is to show why the other is wrong, not simly declare it so.
Yes, there are no serious threats in the world. It's just a peaceful place. Iran would never hurt Israel, they're just joking around. Kinda like Osama was just kidding in the 90's when he declared war on the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynasty
I think it was a draw in my opinion, each threw punches but couldn't put the other away. Hopefully they'll do that on the next debate.
Hopefully, you'll tell us how you became a Pacer fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by pooh
Pooh's a long time Pacers fan.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Not that long.Quote:
Originally Posted by ploto
VERY CLOSE
I'm going to give the edge to obama, didn't like the way mccain kept coming of in a condescending attitude.
As a supporter of neither of these candidates, I thought Obama came off as slightly more presidential. It's tough for me to judge who won the foreign policy debate when I disagree with both.
Independents and lightly committed leaners don't like condescending and arrogant non-verbal communication in debates.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurminator
See Bush-Gore 2000 when Gore's arrogance cost him.
McCain preaches about reaching across the aisle, but his condescending demeanor today hardly conveyed a man who'll be successful to that end.
He looked like a snob by refusing to ever make contact with Obama and repeatedly sayinb "Obama just doesnt understand, is naive, etc".
A few times might have been effective. McCain went way overboard on this.
It was condescending, but I also think it will work better for McCain than it did for Gore. With Bush and Gore, both were perceived to be on a pretty level playing field, so for one of them to act like the other one didn't belong there didn't make a lot of sense.
With Obama, that's a key obstacle he has to face... Whether he's qualified for this race. McCain's cold shoulder suggested Obama didn't even belng on the same stage with him. That's not going to work on independents who feel confident in Obama's qualifications for President but it could have some effect on those independents who have some hesitation about voting for someone with Obama's tenure in Washington.
We'll see.
As an independent i can tell you for sure that being arrogant as the guy ^ put it really doesn't resonate among us.:nopeQuote:
Originally Posted by Spurminator
I wasn't too impressed with either one. I think overall McCain won ... but this was on his battleground so he had to win to keep the race competitive. McCain came off condescending when he avoided talking or looking at Obama. But I thought Obama gained some condescending points for calling him "John" instead of Senator McCain for most of the first half of the debate.
I don't think I'll get many to agree but I think W would wipe the floor with either of them in a debate. W has that folksy, everyman debate quality about him that is almost unbeatable in a presidential debate. With McCain you can tell he's a career politician and you can tell Obama is a lawyer. Put W against either one and he'd stumble, mumble and awkward laugh his way to a debate win.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
From what I can see, maybe I'm wrong, I thought Obama came off better.
I guess I'm in the minority in that camp.
If W didn't have all the baggage with him? I agree, W was a freaking debating master. Unreal with how kinda dumb he is too.
It's unreal how kinda dumb you are for asserting that W was even remotely competent as a debater. You are a Texan though......go figure.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
The best debater I've ever seen is Bill Clinton. Watch and learn.
fuck it....RON PAUL is the answer pplzQ!
Perot came off best in that first video.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadHatter
:lol
Perot before he dropped out then got back in was NOT bad.
Still a whacko though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadHatter
Lose the dickhead attitude please.
i haven't decided who to vote for yet...
i really liked alot of what barrack had to say...i just don't believe him yet though...
john, i believe him, and i have faith in his experience...but i could see barrack's point much more clearly on things...
i liked obama saying we're going to take care of business in pakistan...
anyhow, it came off as roses vs reality to me...
i look forward to the next debate...
i'll completely dismiss the vp debate as i only care about palin's rear view and i don't give a shit about vp's...
God willing...may the best man for the country win...:tu
This debate was a total draw. Not one undecided voter has now decided because of it, i dont care what you see on tv. McCain fleshed out his hard hitting points better than Barack, if only because Barack has no ability to talk in a natural free-flowing cadence, but has still yet to shake off his way of talking that makes every person slightly to the right view him as a total blubbering idiot. Barack, on the other hand, did try to pull a Mr. Republican by mentioning Al Qaeda almost as many times as McCain mentioned Reagan (you fucking pieces of shit, yes you reading this, read some history, you fucking pieces of shit), but i think it fell short because of his inability to talk smoothly.
I say if it was not a draw, McCain won verrrrrry slightly, but won is actually a bad word to use, i'd say McCain had a slight edge. However, this was supposed to be a debate that McCain would chodebload Barack at, being so incredibly old and experienced. Now we will move onto the good stuff, and Barack should do much better.
I think Jim Lerher was an awesome moderator, but I felt sorry for him because he was so excited he seemed to actually think he'd be able to make the candidates answer a question directly. I live have listened to Jim's show on KERA many times, he's an awesome journalist, IMO, and it was cool to see him work the debate. He was definitely the best moderator I've seen this entire cycle of elections. Not like those douche ass bastards on CNN, etc.
Party on, Wayne.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2centsworth
Read a fucking book, the president of Iran says those things, and he is a figurehead that is working his own public for votes. Barack touched on this, but I am led to believe Alex Jones is right when I see McCain working all the generic Republican Talking Points and Barack chooses to reply to him within the paradigm we are all familiar with.
Barack had like FIVE opportunities to crush McCain, but he did not.
How you ask? By looking him in the eye and asking him, "Senator McCain, do you truly believe that the military victories alone will qualify the Iraq situation as a victory?"
Because it does not. Patreus himself fucking said this. This was the most obvious fucking thing Barack could have said right from the start of their bull shit exchange about Iraq. But Barack did not even come close to saying this.
McCain was the only one who mentioned Iraq as being a future "reliable ally" and that is complete and total bull shit 2002 style neocon tactics. Barack did not even tippy toe and confront this bull shit.
When I try to be a caring voter in my system, I try to convince myself that there is a fundamental difference between democrat and republican. I try to convince myself that people, who have been shouting that these two candidates are different arms of the same beast (like Alex Jones) are total tin foil hat wearing douchebags. But what did we see tonight?
I have never been more convinced that this is the case. The entire ebb and flow of the conversation was within the Republican paradigm of political situation abroad, and the fact that Barack only challenged him within this paradigm and repeatedly failed to challenge him on the obvious shortcomings of his views leads me to believe that this entire election is rigged for McCain.
Before any of you on the right or the left start lynching me, ANSWER ME THIS:
Why did Barack not mention political victory in Iraq as being the true benchmark for success? Why???? This is something a fucking third grader could understand if they have been following the situation, but it was non existent in this debate.
I have never been more dissatisfied with direction my country is heading in, and I am sure many more are feeling the way I am.
I totally agree, but only because of the way they talk. McCain is vanilla, Obama talks in fucking chunks like he's recalling what he's supposed to say, and W sounds like that idiot down the street that you watch a football game with sometimes.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Wow yeah. He would have pwnt McCain off the stage with a statement like that. Seriously.
I'm not being sarcastic this post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Everyone says it was McCain's battleground but he had to deal with being tied to the Bush Admin and supporting the Iraq War.
Being tied to the Bush Admin is a huge obstacle to work around.
That's what Obama did that was successful in this debate: tied McCain to Bush every single chance he got. I was surprised McCain went ahead and threw W under the bus.
The table is set for McCain to separate himself from the Bush admin completely though...
Couldn't disagree more...Quote:
I don't think I'll get many to agree but I think W would wipe the floor with either of them in a debate. W has that folksy, everyman debate quality about him that is almost unbeatable in a presidential debate.
#1. IIRC the polls also showed W lost every debate against Kerry.
#2. W is extremely unlikeable IMO...what he does well is play on stereotypes to make liberals looks like pussies.
Quote:
With McCain you can tell he's a career politician and you can tell Obama is a lawyer. Put W against either one and he'd stumble, mumble and awkward laugh his way to a debate win.
I don't think so...I think W would lose a debate against any Presidential Candidate in history other than an overconfident Al Gore.
It's all fucking nonsense, neither McCain nor Obama directly said yes or no about supporting that bull shit bailout bill, and Jim asked them directly 3 times in a row. I felt sorry for Jim, but at least he tried.
I'm not that smart, never pretended to be, and there are voters, especially on this forum that are smarter than me...so honestly, WHAT THE FUCK are we supposed to believe after this debate other than either
a) Obama's advisors are so fucking stupid or cowardly they advise him not to counter McCain's hackneyed republican talking points with an obvious truth
or
b) This shit is a big fucking charade.
I was so pissed after watching this abortion
Apply Ockham's razor....iare there less barriers to believing that EVERY EDUCATED DAesque democract advising Obama, would all simultaneously agree to tell him not to use the obvious counter to "Military victory = victory" or is it easier to believe that these people are educated, and chose to tell Obama not to use this line of counterattack.
QUESTION.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
Actually, McCain pretty much answered yes(although he did it quietly) while Obama never directly answered the question IIRC....he talked about his plan.
I could actually care less, I'm more concerned with this obvious hole in the debate about Iraq, that CNN, FNC, MSNBC, et. al, are refusing to talk about.Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
According to CNN and CBS News, undecideds think Obama won. Only audience that matters.
This is a bull shit election. Now I am only pissed off that that loose cunt Palin is actually going to be our president if McCain kicks the bucket. I know I've joked about this before, but I am serious now. We really are fucked if McCain dies. Now, as an American, my entire concern is that McCain does not die while he is in office.
I completely disagree, but then again I would never want an average man to run the nation.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Then there are a bunch of stupid undecideds out there...Obama didn't know shit. Half the time he copied McCain's answer and the other times McCain showed a much more detailed insight into what is actually going on in Iraq, Afhganistan and Pakistan, not to mention Georgia...and exposed Obama as pretending to be an expert on places he's never actually been.
@#%#$ I never realized how easily Americans can be suckered by a slick talking laywer that never actually answers any damn questions.
PS: Anyone that think Achmajenna asshole can be negotiated with is an idiot....I don't give a shit if this guy agrees to every Pre-condition you want...he'll be lying. This dude is Yassir Arafat, Saddam Hussein, Castro...
Any attempt to at a civil discourse with this guy is going to be taken as a sign of weakness and fear.
Could you have negotiated with Hitler?
No...
This guy is further gone than Hitler ever was.
Ahmanijedad is not the supreme ruler of Iran...Khamanei is. Obama made that point very well.
If you think Obama or McCain is going into this debate trying to actually "win" the debate you're a fool. That's not the point of these debates anymore. It's all about shoring up your weaknesses amongst the voters you are seeking to get. For Obama this was about him looking Presidential and less of a risk to Independent voters. That's why he didn't make so much of an effort to dismantle McCain in this debate.
He certainly could have though if he chose to.
They couldn't pay me to write a more retarded analysis.Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
Exactly. Obama needs to show he can be Commander in Chief. McCain needs to show he can connect with the middle class. Obama did a great job. McCain not so much. Now McCain certainly made some good points, and he really scored with that Ahmaninjedad (damn can't spell his name for shit) jab, but Obama knew it's not about winning over the pundits, it's shoring up his weaknesses.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMadHatter
:lol I know...I thought that was hilarious, he brought it up as if he was saying that was the guy we should try to negotiate with...that guy is even worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Findog
In terms of the debate, McCain probably won IMHO. But clearly based on the polling done after the debate he didn't win amongst Independents. This is the crucial point, Independents and swing voters aren't looking at the debates the same way we are.
Bomb BOmb BOmb Bomb BOmb Iran!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
People talk about Ahmanijaded so much, it would be like Iranians talking about Nancy Pelosi.Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
I never would have thought that a loose republican vagina would have turned whottt so far that he would compare ahmedinijad with hitler, then intimate that ahmedinijad is worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
Never.
Khomeni has actually said via his press relations man (the ONLY man who ever talks for him in any news outlet) that he is open to working with americans, something Ahmedinijad has never even come close to saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
So Pres Ahmedinijad's comments about wanting to whipe Israel off the face of the earth wasn't bad?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
The Iranians say that shit for domestic consumption. It's like a red meat speech at a political convention, denouncing the "evil Zionist entity" always plays well at home. The Iranians ARE rational, they'll never attacK Israel with nukes.Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
See I get the exact oppostite vibe..I get the feeling that any foreign leader is going to be in so far over their heads against Palin that it won't even be funny. She is totally ruthless against her enemies, in a way men can't even conceive of.
Palin vs. Putin is like the Spurs versus Lincoln High SchoolQuote:
Originally Posted by whottt
What are you talking about? Do you seriously think Putin would try to paint her into a corner or twist her words as badly as Charlie Gibson or Katie Couric?Quote:
Originally Posted by Findog
Asshole is insane...it's no act with that guy. That guy is a terrorist...in the truest sense of the word.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
Khameni is worse...he is never going to give up his throne for any sort of Democratic reform, and he is never going to move away from fundamentalist Islam. Iran will continue to be an oppressive shithole as long as he is in power.
He's the reason Khatami never produced any positives with the US.
He's the reason asshole is in power.
We will never gain anything by negotiating with these guys. We will never gain a single thing in negotiations with them. Anyone that says we will is naive...including McCain.
They both need to be dead. ASAP.
It was in response to whottt's assertion that Palin would totally dominate foreign leaders. She can't even handle questions from hack journalists. Putin would run circles around herQuote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
Attempting to get elected with the media undermining you and negotiating with foreign leaders are two entirely different things.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
Not the same thing at all...
Palin is much more ruthless than Putin is...you just don't see it....and neither will Putin.
It's not the same thing...not the same game. It's not the same goals, not the same payoff, not the same penalties.Quote:
Originally Posted by Findog
whottt has totally jumped the shark on Palin.
Findog thinks winning the popular vote is the same thing as foreign policy.
I tremble for my country at the thought of Palin conducting high-level diplomatic discussions with foreign leaders. Not so with Obama.Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Findog
You also begin every year thinking the Mavs will win a title and thought Jason Kidd for Devin Harris was a positive.
Trust me...you are far more detatched from reality than I am.
Mavs will get the sixth seed and lose in the first round again this year. Go back to the archives and see what I said about the Kidd trade up until it publicly fell apart. I did not support it. The Mavs season after the Kidd trade played out exactly the way I said it would.Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Findog
I don't need to look...I argued with you about it. I know what you said, and I know what I said.
You argued that DeSagana Diop was the second coming of Bill Russell and Devin Harris was the new Oscar Robertson, and they provided crucial matchup advantages against the Spurs. I wouldn't disagree with the latter half of that statement. I was firmly against the Kidd trade. When it publicly fell apart, I felt it had to go through for the purpose of team morale. After that, being a Mavs fan, I was rooting for the team to make lemonade out of lemons.Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
Hmmm...in current Iran:
They torture people.
They kill them for changing religions.
They kill them for being gay.
They kill them for speaking out.
They kill them for being raped.
They kill them for commiting adultry.
They execute children.
They did it even when they had a guy that was an extreme liberal by their standards.
I want you to tell me what Hitler would do that would shock them?