So who won tonight's debate....?

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Originally Posted by whottt

Hmmm...in current Iran:


They torture people.

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So do we.

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Originally Posted by Findog

So do we.

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You just keep telling yourself that.

You just keep thinking we can negotiate with the "hardline" leaders of a society that executes children even when it's not hardline.

If they'll kill their own children...you think they gonna sit around and sing Kumbaya with us? And it becomes more acceptable and routine, the longer they stay in power.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Attempting to get elected with the media undermining you and negotiating with foreign leaders are two entirely different things.

Not the same thing at all...

Palin is much more ruthless than Putin is...you just don't see it....and neither will Putin.

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I sure as shit hope not considering Putin has had rivals and even news journalists killed.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Hmmm...in current Iran:


They torture people.
They kill them for changing religions.
They kill them for being gay.
They kill them for speaking out.
They kill them for being raped.
They kill them for commiting adultry.

They execute children.


They did it even when they had a guy that was an extreme liberal by their standards.


I want you to tell me what Hitler would do that would shock them?

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Just more proof you're a bigot. What happens in Iran is horrible. They kill their own people. Hitler killed people...tortured them...performed experiments on them...tied them to their loved ones, shot one and let him/her drag the other to their death to save money on bullets...put people IN OVENS...because of their beliefs. He did it to 6 million of them. You are so done you piece of shit.

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Originally Posted by whottt

You just keep telling yourself that.

You just keep thinking we can negotiate with the "hardline" leaders of a society that executes children even when it's not hardline.

If they'll kill their own children...you think they gonna sit around and sing Kumbaya with us? And it becomes more acceptable and routine, the longer they stay in power.

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McCain said, "We'll never torture again". So either he feels the need to reiterate that for no reason or he just admitted we have been torturing. Go suck off David Duke.

And where the hell is Sarah Palin?

I thought a slight edge went to McCain...................oh, and Obama is about as bad as Bush at speaking.

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Originally Posted by johnsmith

I thought a slight edge went to McCain...................oh, and Obama is about as bad as Bush at speaking.

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That bad and yet you think McCain only was able to pull off a slight win? Obama showed he can stand toe to toe with McCain and didn't back down. A slight edge to McCain is a big victory for Obama.

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Originally Posted by 01.20.09

That bad and yet you think McCain only was able to pull off a slight win? Obama showed he can stand toe to toe with McCain and didn't back down. A slight edge to McCain is a big victory for Obama.

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Yeah, I don't really like McCain either. Seriously though, I think Obama is an awful speaker when having to go without a written speach. He would fail a high school speech class with all of his "uuuuuuummmmmmm's".

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Originally Posted by 01.20.09

That bad and yet you think McCain only was able to pull off a slight win? Obama showed he can stand toe to toe with McCain and didn't back down. A slight edge to McCain is a big victory for Obama.

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prefight odds had Obama way up.

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Originally Posted by johnsmith

Yeah, I don't really like McCain either. Seriously though, I think Obama is an awful speaker when having to go without a written speach. He would fail a high school speech class with all of his "uuuuuuummmmmmm's".

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I thought Obama had his best debate yet and his "uuuuumms" were minimal and this wasn't a speech class. I don't think there was a clear winner but I do think it helps Obama more than McCain.

It was too hard to tell over the Barack jibber-jabber...

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Originally Posted by JoeChalupa

I thought Obama had his best debate yet and his "uuuuumms" were minimal and this wasn't a speech class. I don't think there was a clear winner but I do think it helps Obama more than McCain.

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I didn't really think either of them "said" anything we haven't heard yet. But I suppose this is for those Americans that haven't been paying attention.

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Originally Posted by JoeChalupa

I don't think there was a clear winner but I do think it helps Obama more than McCain.

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Agreed. McCain needs to make up ground somehow and this was a missed opportunity for him to do that. Also, one of the biggest hurdles for Obama in terms of winning over undecided voters is that he is perceived as an unknown quantity, while McCain is not. This sort of exposure to the public ultimately works in Obama's favor if they come off as being equally "presidential."

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Originally Posted by whottt

You just keep telling yourself that.

You just keep thinking we can negotiate with the "hardline" leaders of a society that executes children even when it's not hardline.

If they'll kill their own children...you think they gonna sit around and sing Kumbaya with us? And it becomes more acceptable and routine, the longer they stay in power.

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You deny we torture people?

From Karl Rove (pre-debate) in the Wall Street Journal -

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Originally Posted by Wall Street Journal

WSJ
Mr. McCain needs to come across as optimistic, loose and likable. He must guard against revealing his lack of respect for Mr. Obama. And he must grab the "change" banner from Mr. Obama by describing a few things he'll do internationally that are new and different.
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Mr. Obama's task is to look like a credible commander in chief. Right now, too many people lack confidence that he's up to the most important of presidential responsibilities.

Mr. Obama must avoid the pervasive sense of nuance that weakened his performance at the Saddleback Forum. He should attack less. If Mr. McCain is condescending, Mr. Obama should call him on it. If Mr. McCain launches a full-out assault, Mr. Obama should rebut it. Otherwise, he should aim for firmness, seriousness of purpose and clarity in his views.
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A debate tie goes to the frontrunner. With that now being Mr. Obama by a slim margin, Mr. McCain must emerge the clear winner, or his prospects of being the next president will dim.

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So....who won under Karl Rove's criteria?

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Originally Posted by whottt

See I get the exact oppostite vibe..I get the feeling that any foreign leader is going to be in so far over their heads against Palin that it won't even be funny. She is totally ruthless against her enemies, in a way men can't even conceive of.

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Whottt that is ridiculous.

Back to Iran....Ahmedinijad actually represents a different younger faction in Iran than the Supreme Leader. They have actually been at odds on a number of occasions, and the only thing the president has going for him is the public support he garners from fear mongering and his nuclear program. Some out there believe the Supreme Leader wants someone else to be president, but himself is hesitant to make any rash decision because of the existing rift between the political elite of Iran.

The Supreme Leader would never talk to us personally, it's heresy, but it would not be far fetched to open negotiations with his channels for a pragmatic mutually beneficial relationship with our two countries...something that will never happen if we set all those gay ass preconditions with a neocon mindset.

McCain looked old, and crotchety....Obama looked cool and Presidential.

It was close, but this was McCain's wheelhouse and Obama stood toe to toe with him...and didn't give an inch.

This election is heading towards an Obama landslide.

DD

When the debate was on the economy, I thought Barack had the edge. When it shifted to what this debate was supposed to be about (foreign policy), I thought McCain showed a greater knowledge and command of the subject. I also thought McCain gained more confidence and was unyielding in the latter half of the debate.

For me it's simple....when the debate is on the economy Obama wins, but when it's on foreign policy McCain wins.

One note: I was pissed off at Obama for avoiding the question of what would be prioritized in his administration given the impending bailout. With his spending proposals that's a combined $1.5 Trillion (with at T) dollars....while still promising a tax cut to 95% of Americans. Is the other 5% going to pay out a trillion dollars in taxes? I doubt it.

He had a chance to be real with America and stress how he was going to prioritize, but we got the same ol' political-speak as usual.

McCain's priority was well established....defense and veteran care.

"The candidate who projects affability and optimism is usually seen to have bettered the candidate who projects resentment and gloom. If that is the case with tonight’s debate, Obama won and McCain lost."

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/pos...d=opinionsbox1

McWorse was condescending, belittling, overly aggressive, bitter, talk-radio angry, and above all, revoltingly petty.

Watching the debate again it's incredible how McCain not once looked at Obama. Even when he was directly addressing him. Huge mistake, shows a clear lack of respect. Obama has just as much right as McCain to be up on that stage and McCain did a great disservice to himself by being so arrogant and rude as to not even look at his opponent.

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Originally Posted by TheMadHatter

Who won? Nobody.

Who came away doing what they needed to do? Obama.

McCain needed a game changer. He didn't get it. With Palin coming up it could all be over quick.

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For some reason I think she is going to exceed expectations Thursday. Don't ask me why I think that I just do.

Expectations are extrememly low for Palin now. If she doesn't soil herself onstage, it will be considered a good performance.

Even if she does, Yoni will say it probably smells better than Biden's leavings.

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Originally Posted by JoeChalupa

I thought Obama had his best debate yet and his "uuuuumms" were minimal and this wasn't a speech class. I don't think there was a clear winner but I do think it helps Obama more than McCain.

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Yeah thats what I thought as well. I thought he came off alot better than he did against Hillary.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Expectations are extrememly low for Palin now. If she doesn't soil herself onstage, it will be considered a good performance.

Even if she does, Yoni will say it probably smells better than Biden's leavings.

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:lol I know Whottt's going to probably tape that debate. Palin is his girl.

It's funny as I look at some pics of last night debate I didn;t see John McCain even look at Obama once in the eyes. Almost like he feels insulted that he has to share the stage with him or something...... Maybe thats me me overanalyzing stuff.