If Obama wins

I'll be counting the days until 2012 when the Republicans win back the White House. But first regain control of the house and senate. Until then it will be, "America Held Hostage" circa 1992-2000 all over again.

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

Just curious. Do you have the decency or the mental capacity to have a debate online without personally ripping people?

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Depends on the person...and how stupid they are.

I haven't personally ripped a single person on this board unless they interjected some personal detain into it. For instance earlier tonight in another thread discussing Iran and Israel a poster brought up his family in offense as if I was supposed ot know his family history something.

On the other hand I have been personally attacked by the libs on this forum...clambake being the primary culprit.

I've also received deathreats for sharing my political views, from liberals.

Death threats.

This isn't a great example but in this very thread you can see boutons encouraging a physical confrontration with me. Challenging me. He's made countless similar statements to me.

While I have never uttered a single threat to him of any kind.


I just give him a dose of his own obnoxiousness.

Doesn't bother you as much because you share many of his views...but he is extremely obnoxious.

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How am I supposed to buy your rhetoric about McCain being good for this country when you are willing to go as low as necessary to provoke someone? Is that honest in even the most lenient sense, and do you care? Because if you don't, I'm not sure you deserve any sort of respect. At all.

Now go ahead and scoff, and rip on me. It doesn't change the fact that you act like a prick. Doesn't common decency appeal to you, on some level? I guess when you're comfortable behind your computer it removes you from the need to be kind.

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It's funny that libs get so irate when someone gives them a dose of their own
medicine...

Prior to the Iraq War...I sounded just like most of the libs on this forum. In fact I was one.


What I am, is this guy on this forum that tends to wind up on the conservative side things, that's as obnoxious as most of the liberals are. And you guys can't fucking stand it...it's hilarious.

You want civility...why don't you guys try it yourselves.

That's what is funny about it. Most of the conservatives on this forum are ten times more civil than the libs are...and they don't post near as much propaganda.


If Yoni was a lib he wouldn't even be in the top of the most obnoxious libs...and he gets piled on non-stop by you guys, and he is more civil than most of you...and there's only one of him.


Go ahead and get annoyed...I'm just a reflection of the angry left.

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Originally Posted by pooh

I'll be counting the days until 2012 when the Republicans win back the White House. But first regain control of the house and senate. Until then it will be, "America Held Hostage" circa 1992-2000 all over again.

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Just be sure to vote...I'm not buying the polls. Obama polled high against Hillary. He had a double digit lead over her in California in polls but got his ass kicked in the actual vote. He's not as popular as the media wants you to believe he is IMO. If he was he wouldn't have barely beaten Hillary.

If he was the media wouldn't have force feed him to the American public the way they do.




And the Democrats are shedding lifelong Democrat voters by the buttload while supposedly pickingn up the silent majority...I don't think the silent majority has gone from electing W to electing Obama, especially with how bad congress sucks...call it a hunch.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Depends on the person...and how stupid they are.

I haven't personally ripped a single person on this board unless they interjected some personal detain into it. For instance earlier tonight in another thread discussing Iran and Israel a poster brought up his family in offense as if I was supposed ot know his family history something.

On the other hand I have been personally attacked by the libs on this forum...clambake being the primary culprit.

I've also received deathreats for sharing my political views, from liberals.

Death threats.

This isn't a great example but in this very thread you can see boutons encouraging a physical confrontration with me. Challenging me. He's made countless similar statements to me.

While I have never uttered a single threat to him of any kind.


I just give him a dose of his own obnoxiousness.

Doesn't bother you as much because you share many of his views...but he is extremely obnoxious.

It's funny that libs get so irate when someone gives them a dose of their own
medicine...

Prior to the Iraq War...I sounded just like most of the libs on this forum. In fact I was one.


What I am, is this guy on this forum that tends to wind up on the conservative side things, that's as obnoxious as most of the liberals are. And you guys can't fucking stand it...it's hilarious.

You want civility...why don't you guys try it yourselves.

That's what is funny about it. Most of the conservatives on this forum are ten times more civil than the libs are...and they don't post near as much propaganda.


If Yoni was a lib he wouldn't even be in the top of the most obnoxious libs...and he gets piled on non-stop by you guys, and he is more civil than most of you...and there's only one of him.


Go ahead and get annoyed...I'm just a reflection of the angry left.

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oh give us a fucking break whottt. That bullshit isn't going to fly with anyone that's been around here more than two weeks. That's just about all it takes to realize that your debating skills in this forum consist on two parts, you stating your point of view and you insulting anyone that disagrees with it. You're a fucking prick about almost everything to almost everyone. In fact the only person that you have managed to have a long debate with and not insult the living shit out of, that I've seen, is Timvp... I wonder why.

Not only are you a prick, but you're just about the most fucking conceited person in this forum. For fucks sake, you go around telling people who's on your ignore list, why you put them there and what they can do to get out! Newsflash whottt! No one gives a shit!

Yeah there are quite a lot of liberals in this board that are about as obnoxious as you, but you trying to blame your bullshit on them is beyond lame! Especially since you precede most of them here! You're not a reflection of the angry left, you're a reflection of your angry self!

Now go ahead and put me on ignore now whottt, and tell everyone why. I'm sure everyone is itching to find out :rolleyes

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiAc

oh give us a fucking break whottt. That bullshit isn't going to fly with anyone that's been around here more than two weeks. That's just about all it takes to realize that your debating skills in this forum consist on two parts, you stating your point of view and you insulting anyone that disagrees with it. You're a fucking prick about almost everything to almost everyone. In fact the only person that you have managed to have a long debate with and not insult the living shit out of, that I've seen, is Timvp... I wonder why.

Not only are you a prick, but you're just about the most fucking conceited person in this forum. For fucks sake, you go around telling people who's on your ignore list, why you put them there and what they can do to get out! Newsflash whottt! No one gives a shit!

Yeah there are quite a lot of liberals in this board that are about as obnoxious as you, but you trying to blame your bullshit on them is beyond lame! Especially since you precede most of them here! You're not a reflection of the angry left, you're a reflection of your angry self!

Now go ahead and put me on ignore now whottt, and tell everyone why. I'm sure everyone is itching to find out :rolleyes

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Just another angry/obnoxious lib. Don't you know whottt is never wrong?!?!? How dare you question his perception of events!

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Originally Posted by TheMadHatter

We are not fighting the same war in Afghanistan that we are fighting in Iraq. That is a fundamentally incorrect statement to make and it shows a profound lack of understanding of the Middle East.

Furthermore us staying in Iraq does nothing but delay the inevitable. As soon as we leave they will be at each other's throats. These people don't want democracy, when we leave a theocracy will be established and things could potentially be worse than before we ever invaded Iraq. You cannot force democracy on a people that don't want it. It just doesn't work that way. I really suggest you educate yourself on the Iraq war and the history of the area in general, it will open your eyes.

Obama understands this. He understands the world is incredibly nuanced and complicated and we can't just meddle into other countries without understanding the ramifications. You may want a shoot first ask questions later President, but I don't. I want a wise leader.

I'm voting for Obama for so many reasons I cannot list them all here. Education reform, health care reform, investment in science and technology, separation of church and state, and the end of trickle down economics to name a few. We can't afford 4 more years of Bush, don't kid yourself that is exactly what McCain wants to do.

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Well now that the civil unrest has mostly quelled, the primary enemy we're facing in Iraq is al-Queda and other terrorist insurgents coming across the border from Iran and Syria. They are the same enemy that we will fight in Afghanistan along with a resurgent regime that propped them up.

And I understand your opinion on the inevitability of the democracy failing, but I choose not to embrace it. Iraq as it is presently constructed may not survive in the future, but leaving it in a vulnerable position now virtually assures it won't. I can see that you and I have a difference of opinion on this point, so we'll have to just agree to disagree.

You and I also have fundamentally different perspective on McCain as a CINC. I don't see him as a "shoot first, ask questions later" president.

And again, I'll ask the question...how much of that reform do you think Obama will be able to accomplish when he's saddled with the economic crisis and perhaps a $700B government bailout bill? You're naive if you think he will be able to accomplish everything he's set forth....despite his non-answer at the debate the other day, he will have to prioritize.

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Originally Posted by boutons_

Whott impugning a vet's patriotism, typical right wing slime.

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You mean like El Nono's statement that McCain couldn't raise his arms above his head because he is "old". Typical left wing slime!

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Originally Posted by whottt

Depends on the person...and how stupid they are.

I haven't personally ripped a single person on this board unless they interjected some personal detain into it. For instance earlier tonight in another thread discussing Iran and Israel a poster brought up his family in offense as if I was supposed ot know his family history something.


Go ahead and get annoyed...I'm just a reflection of the angry left.

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Right. You never attack people first. You're totally the victim every single time here.

The hell of it is that you're more than intelligent enough to have a debate without being so offensive yet you choose to a) let people drag you down into the nether reaches of trolldom or b) you do it yourself. Anyway, most of what you said isn't even applicable to me, as I am not a liberal (which I've stated numerous times to no avail, as apparently what I say doesn't matter to you) and never have been. Because I support Obama though, you enjoy lumping me into that category because it makes it easier to diametrically oppose anything I say. :clap


[QUOTE]Most of the conservatives on this forum are ten times more civil than the libs are...and they don't post near as much propaganda./QUOTE]

Oh man, you cannot possibly make a statement that's more inaccurate. There are trolls on both sides of the issue. I don't defend either side when they start with the "Hussein, McSame" nonsense. Do you? Please show me where I have advocated for a person who's intentionally trolling. You can't, but you'll sure as hell put me in the same category, yeah?

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Originally Posted by Hook Dem

You mean like El Nono's statement that McCain couldn't raise his arms above his head because he is "old". Typical left wing slime!

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Honestly, I completely forgot about McCain's tortuous past. It happens. I'm not American, and thus unable to vote, so I see this whole election from the outside in many respects. And while I agreed mostly with liberals in this forum lately, I've agreed with conservatives numerous times. Go ask Wild Cobra if you don't believe me.

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Originally Posted by whottt

Just be sure to vote...I'm not buying the polls. Obama polled high against Hillary. He had a double digit lead over her in California in polls but got his ass kicked in the actual vote. He's not as popular as the media wants you to believe he is IMO. If he was he wouldn't have barely beaten Hillary.

If he was the media wouldn't have force feed him to the American public the way they do.

And the Democrats are shedding lifelong Democrat voters by the buttload while supposedly pickingn up the silent majority...I don't think the silent majority has gone from electing W to electing Obama, especially with how bad congress sucks...call it a hunch.

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This is what happens when logic doesn't agree with you.

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Originally Posted by boutons_

The opposite of nut-case/war-mongering/fuck-America/enrich-the-rich far right is not far left.

Like Paulsen's $700B/7-days/or-else extortionate framing as the only only framing, Whott the fuck's framing is all wrong, nothing but Whott's par for the course.

The slime that HUSSEIN/Congress/America is far left/socialist/communist is nothing but slime.

Nutcase right-wing socialism applies only to the super-rich.

Right-wing free-market capitalism and social/economic Darwinism apply to the non-super-rich dogs eating dogs.

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LOL, poor croutons doesn't understand that Paulson's a liberal. We are going to get buttfucked by the bailout. Yay for socialism.

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Originally Posted by AFBlue

Well now that the civil unrest has mostly quelled, the primary enemy we're facing in Iraq is al-Queda and other terrorist insurgents coming across the border from Iran and Syria. They are the same enemy that we will fight in Afghanistan along with a resurgent regime that propped them up.

And I understand your opinion on the inevitability of the democracy failing, but I choose not to embrace it. Iraq as it is presently constructed may not survive in the future, but leaving it in a vulnerable position now virtually assures it won't. I can see that you and I have a difference of opinion on this point, so we'll have to just agree to disagree.

You and I also have fundamentally different perspective on McCain as a CINC. I don't see him as a "shoot first, ask questions later" president.

And again, I'll ask the question...how much of that reform do you think Obama will be able to accomplish when he's saddled with the economic crisis and perhaps a $700B government bailout bill? You're naive if you think he will be able to accomplish everything he's set forth....despite his non-answer at the debate the other day, he will have to prioritize.

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You have your facts wrong. The reason the fighting has stopped is because we've paid off both sides. So yes there is short term peace right now but when we leave they will go right back to fighting one another.

There is no democracy in Iraq and they are no closer to a democracy now than they were at any point in their history. The Iraqi's want a theocracy, they don't want a democracy. This is the point you fail to understand, we cannot force a democracy on a people that don't want it. They have to want it for themselves.

Therefore it makes no sense to stay there when we could be focusing our resources on where the terrorists actually came from. You know in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

I'm fully aware Obama won't be able to do everything he wants to do. That doesn't matter to me, his priorities are to invest in the American people. McCain will give $300 billion dollars in tax cuts to the rich, you know where his priorities lie. The bottom line is McCain, for the most part, will continue the Bush economic and foreign policy philosophies that have put this nation in the horrible position it is in today. We can't afford 4 more years of this, and the American people are waking up. Obama is stretching his lead in the polls and barring a major gaffe/blunder he will win this election leaving the Republican party in complete disarray.

4 mo years 4 mo years 4 mo years

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Will Leave Republican party in complete disarray

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Doood, between Big Spender Bush and soft McCain it already is!

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Originally Posted by TheMadHatter

You have your facts wrong. The reason the fighting has stopped is because we've paid off both sides. So yes there is short term peace right now but when we leave they will go right back to fighting one another.

There is no democracy in Iraq and they are no closer to a democracy now than they were at any point in their history. The Iraqi's want a theocracy, they don't want a democracy. This is the point you fail to understand, we cannot force a democracy on a people that don't want it. They have to want it for themselves.

Therefore it makes no sense to stay there when we could be focusing our resources on where the terrorists actually came from. You know in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

I'm fully aware Obama won't be able to do everything he wants to do. That doesn't matter to me, his priorities are to invest in the American people. McCain will give $300 billion dollars in tax cuts to the rich, you know where his priorities lie. The bottom line is McCain, for the most part, will continue the Bush economic and foreign policy philosophies that have put this nation in the horrible position it is in today. We can't afford 4 more years of this, and the American people are waking up. Obama is stretching his lead in the polls and barring a major gaffe/blunder he will win this election leaving the Republican party in complete disarray.

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I hear you and though we disagree, I respect your opinion.

And I think the Republican Party is already in complete dissaray. They are a party without an identity, who chose a candidate they had to tolerate. If McCain loses this election I have absoltely no idea where the party is headed.

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Originally Posted by Cry Havoc

Right. You never attack people first. You're totally the victim every single time here.

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I don't attack people personally very often at all.

And most of the time when I get into a name calling contest with someone, they have called me stupid for something I said that was a true statement.

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The hell of it is that you're more than intelligent enough to have a debate without being so offensive yet you choose to a) let people drag you down into the nether reaches of trolldom or b) you do it yourself.

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In here yeah. In fact I enjoy it...if you look most of the people I get into the flame wars with are people that are legitimately stupid though. That's nearly always the case.

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Anyway, most of what you said isn't even applicable to me, as I am not a liberal (which I've stated numerous times to no avail, as apparently what I say doesn't matter to you) and never have been. Because I support Obama though, you enjoy lumping me into that category because it makes it easier to diametrically oppose anything I say. :clap

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And I don't think I've argued with you much at all...

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Most of the conservatives on this forum are ten times more civil than the libs are...and they don't post near as much propaganda.

Oh man, you cannot possibly make a statement that's more inaccurate.

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It's entirely accurate.

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There are trolls on both sides of the issue. I don't defend either side when they start with the "Hussein, McSame" nonsense. Do you? Please show me where I have advocated for a person who's intentionally trolling. You can't, but you'll sure as hell put me in the same category, yeah?

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I don't think I said you were in any category other than a lib, and I didn't classify you as one of the obnoxious ones...that is entirely you portraying yourself as a victim.


Case in point...who started the accusations between you and I in this thread?

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Originally Posted by MaNuMaNiAc

oh give us a fucking break whottt. That bullshit isn't going to fly with anyone that's been around here more than two weeks. That's just about all it takes to realize that your debating skills in this forum consist on two parts, you stating your point of view and you insulting anyone that disagrees with it. You're a fucking prick about almost everything to almost everyone. In fact the only person that you have managed to have a long debate with and not insult the living shit out of, that I've seen, is Timvp... I wonder why.

Not only are you a prick, but you're just about the most fucking conceited person in this forum. For fucks sake, you go around telling people who's on your ignore list, why you put them there and what they can do to get out! Newsflash whottt! No one gives a shit!

Yeah there are quite a lot of liberals in this board that are about as obnoxious as you, but you trying to blame your bullshit on them is beyond lame! Especially since you precede most of them here! You're not a reflection of the angry left, you're a reflection of your angry self!

Now go ahead and put me on ignore now whottt, and tell everyone why. I'm sure everyone is itching to find out :rolleyes

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Yeah well every time I tone it down in the main forum timvp PM's and tells me I am getting soft.

And if you don't believe me ask yourself this why...why did they make me a mod?


Now would you mind taking your third world ass out of this discussion? Americans are having a discussion here. Thanks, in advance.

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Originally Posted by whottt

And if you don't believe me ask yourself this why...why did they make me a mod?

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:lol

I am reminded of the event that precipitated getting our mod status taken away.

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Originally Posted by AFBlue

I hear you and though we disagree, I respect your opinion.

And I think the Republican Party is already in complete dissaray. They are a party without an identity, who chose a candidate they had to tolerate. If McCain loses this election I have absoltely no idea where the party is headed.

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I honestly don't believe McCain would make a bad president. He's a good man with good intentions. I just think the philosophies he subscribes to are not what America needs right now.

This crusade against intellectualism is what pisses me off the most about the Republican party today. Since when was it a bad thing to be educated? It's utterly ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

:lol

I am reminded of the event that precipitated getting our mod status taken away.

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I always chalked it up to mouse whining...was there another reason?

i attacked whottt with the possibility of employment. geez......

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Originally Posted by whottt

I always chalked it up to mouse whining...was there another reason?

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People were always bitching, but I think it reached its zenith after you trashed the toll forum.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

People were always bitching, but I think it reached its zenith after you trashed the toll forum.

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Oh yeah that's right...you'd think the trolls would have appreciated that more.

Fucking victims...

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Originally Posted by TheMadHatter

This crusade against intellectualism is what pisses me off the most about the Republican party today. Since when was it a bad thing to be educated? It's utterly ridiculous.

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This is why the Palin pick pissed me off (nice alliteration huh?). Her very appeal is that she's just a "normal" person like you or I. Sorry, but I don't want a damn Hockey Mom running the country.

It's a total "values" pick and we clearly don't need that right now.

other nations will be excited with working alongside obama. they'll want to be involved and so will their citizens.

they'll look at mccain with disdain. they've seen this act before.

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Originally Posted by TheMadHatter

We are not fighting the same war in Afghanistan that we are fighting in Iraq. That is a fundamentally incorrect statement to make and it shows a profound lack of understanding of the Middle East.

Furthermore us staying in Iraq does nothing but delay the inevitable. As soon as we leave they will be at each other's throats. These people don't want democracy, when we leave a theocracy will be established and things could potentially be worse than before we ever invaded Iraq. You cannot force democracy on a people that don't want it. It just doesn't work that way. I really suggest you educate yourself on the Iraq war and the history of the area in general, it will open your eyes.

Obama understands this. He understands the world is incredibly nuanced and complicated and we can't just meddle into other countries without understanding the ramifications. You may want a shoot first ask questions later President, but I don't. I want a wise leader.

I'm voting for Obama for so many reasons I cannot list them all here. Education reform, health care reform, investment in science and technology, separation of church and state, and the end of trickle down economics to name a few. We can't afford 4 more years of Bush, don't kid yourself that is exactly what McCain wants to do.

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Great post. Totally agree.