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Then explain this quote:
The subject is a rhetorical question, but feel free to commence myopic discussion below.Quote:
"He can effectively do what he needs to do by phone… He’s calling members on both sides, talking to people in the administration, helping out as he can." — Senior campaign advisor Mark Salter on why John McCain has kept to his Arlington, Va., campaign headquarters today.
Havea nice day.
I think the whole thing was done just to piss off Letterman.
:lol Jeez, John -- at least pretend you give a shit and drive a couple of miles.
Probably. Did provide some good entertainment at least. "John, Do you need a ride to the airport?" will go down as one of the funnier moments of the campaign season regardless of the outcome.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
Do you think it made more people watch the debate?
Since the ratings were meh, I doubt it. I think it might lose McCain some support in a close race.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
Thats a good question. Its tough to say how many people would have watched it prior to the stunt. I honestly don't know. I tend to think it didn't have a large effect, but I can't say for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
It appears the viewership was "average."Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
McCain-Obama debate pulls average early rating
It saved McCain some monmey while getting him free pub, but it was so transparently cynical and disingenuous even someone like Yoni could see it.
He'll deny it with every fiber of his being, but he can see it.
It was too tactical and defensive to garner huge ratings. Don't get me wrong, it was good fundamental debating and you have to respect that, but the people want to see a more of a show.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yonivore
Sincerely,
Mike D'Antoni
The simple fact that he opened himself up to the question of whether it was political grandstanding makes the move a political mistake. The only thing he can possibly say is, "hey I was there, I took action"....which ain't much.
Still, despite all of his political gaffes over the past few weeks there's no doubt that this election will go down to the wire. I wonder if people actually think it's a positive that he's such a bad politician. :lol
I don't think it will be that close. I think Obama is pulling away from here on out.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFBlue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
Any democrat with a pulse who's vehemently anti-war should win easily with our economy in shambles and a very unpopular incumbent president. Hell, most conservatives will admit to you that they're only luke warm on McCain.
Well Obama is still black. So it won't be as much as a runaway as it would be otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
Ehh...maybe. Since the prevailing topic at this point is the economy you could very well be right, but it depends on how each campaign frames the argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
I think McCain is still stumbling around what his message should be, but the debate could be a decent starting point.
If it were me, I would hammer Obama at the next debate about the proposed $800B in increased government spending and passing on another trillion dollars of debt to your children. I'd ask him if he plans on making up for even the $800B, let alone the other $700B he'll likely inherit, by taxing only 5% of the wealthiest Americans. I'd simply say it doesn't add up.
I'd stress that I was the one who actually wants to CUT government spending (especially the wasteful kind) and work toward decreasing the burden placed on our children and children's children.
He may never be able to stick those points and may end up losing this election, but I'm still of the opinion that it won't be a large margin of victory if he does.
I don't think it's so much about the Bradley effect, though I still think it'll play a part...sadly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Purple & Gold
I think it has more to do with his top demographics being young and minority voters. Now, I hope I'm proven wrong and these two groups are energized and come out in big numbers as they have in the primary...but history is on the other side of it.
And when I say I hope I'm wrong...I'm being sincere. I think everyone who is eligible to vote should make their voice heard...whether I agree with it or not.
Whatever racism exists is already reflected in the polls. It doesn't make sense to tell a pollster you're voting for Barack Obama and then turn around and vote for McCain. A racist isn't likely to vote for a Democrat anyways, and they can always come up with a rationale for why they're voting FOR McCain. There's enough cover.
You're thinking about this logically, when there is no logic to be applied. Some people go into that ballot box with one intention and come out with a different result. Call it a gut-feel or whatever you want.Quote:
Originally Posted by Findog
Whatever it is...it certainly isn't logical.
The bradley efffect has been debunked quite a bit by various sources. If McCain supporters are counting on that for a victory they're in for an unpleasant surprise.
I've heard that too. I don't think that makes sense. This election reminds me of 1992, when there was a big emphasis on issues, economic issues in particular. I believe people are going to vote their pocketbooks in this election.Quote:
Originally Posted by AFBlue
Yeah but Obama isn't Bill Clinton. He had NO answer on the most important issue up for debate last night.
:lmao Oh ok.
I have actually read that polling numbers may under-represent Obama's support because most are still done with land lines only, and many young voters- who would be more likely to vote for Obama and less interested in race- do not have land lines.
The cell phone effect has been guaged at anywhere between 1-3%. In a close election this is huge.Quote:
Originally Posted by ploto
Also, in some polls AA turnout is underrepresented, so he may get more votes there.
All in all he's a great shape right now.
I'm not directly attributing the ballot-box scenario to race. I knew a guy that was going to vote Kerry during the primary in '04 because he was on his way to being the presumptive nominee, but he got into the ballot box and switched to John Edwards, who he had initially backed.Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
A white guy switching his vote from one white guy to another white guy.
Again, for any number of reasons known only to the person in that box, they go in with one intention and come out with a different result. It happens.
Agree that we can't afford to make a "values" vote in this election and that most will make their votes with logic-based assesments of the candidates and their positions on the issues. Most of them...:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Findog
I was on McCain's side but the stupidity of the stunt had me leaning Obama. I hate that type of bs. He thought he had Obama in a lose-lose situation and ended up looking like a jackass.
After the debate, I'm back in McCain country but when it's all said and done shenanigans like that will probably lead him to a loss.
I've come to accept that McCain is a terrible campaigner, but I don't think that's reflective of his ability to be president.Quote:
Originally Posted by jackseven
He definitely came off looking like a jackass though...:lol
missing a debate(talk) to be part of the solution(action) is perfectly fine in my book.
of course, obama just want to talk about shit and be part of any solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
I actually had to Google "the Bradley effect". I had no idea what that meant. Well, you learn something new every day.
But McCain was part of the debate and missed being part of the solution. Deliberately. Is that fine in your book?Quote:
Originally Posted by Clandestino
So he wants to do both!Quote:
of course, obama just want to talk about shit and be part of any solution.
Excellent!
McCain Camp Can't Get Story Straight On Bailout
At the same time that Sen. John McCain was saying that he didn't deserve credit for getting an economic bailout package to the brink of completion, his campaign's chief strategist was arguing that the Senator played an integral role.
Appearing on Meet the Press, McCain aide Steve Schmidt offered a bound-to-be-disputed version of what happened this week.
"When Senator McCain came back to Washington, there had been no deal reached," he said. "What Senator McCain was able to do was to help bring all the parties to the table, including the House Republicans... he came back and he listened and he helped put together the framework of getting everybody to the table which was essential in getting the package [together]."
:lol :lol :lol Holy fricking shit. These McLiar accomplices are funnier than the Keystone Cops.
The remarks conflicted deeply both with contemporaneous testimony and what the Senator himself was declaring at the very same moment on ABC's This Week. :lol :lol
"Whether I helped or hurt, I'll be glad to accept the judgment of history, but I'm never going to not get engaged when the taxpayers and middle class of America are in danger of losing everything literally that they've worked all their lives for," McCain told host George Stephanopoulos. "I'm going to be out working on it. I won't claim a bit of credit, okay, if that makes them feel better. But I'm going to be there working and trying to help solve this crisis."
:lol :lol :lol Empty bromides, motherhood, slogans, catch phrases. I think he really believes his own bullshit, and really believes other people believe this bullshit. IT'S ALL BULLSHIT! :lol
Indeed, news accounts of what occured during the bailout negotiation suggest that McCain played a passive and, perhaps, even detrimental role in the process. According to an account in the New York Times on Saturday, while officials were working out a compromise, McCain spent most of his day in his home in Virginian and, alternatively, at his campaign office.
"He's calling members on both sides, talking to people in the administration, helping out as he can,'' said Mark Salter, McCain's close adviser. "He can effectively do what he needs to do by phone.''
And yet, despite his own aide admitting that he worked through telecommunications, McCain declared on ABC that he came back to Washington because he "wasn't going to phone it in." :lol :lol
"America is in a crisis of almost unprecedented proportions," he said. "I should be doing whatever little I can to help this process."
( Then why aren't you do even "little" help? BULLSHIT! :lol )
It was all a very a perplexing rendering of events. The truth was that, at the very moment a final compromise on the package was being reach, McCain and his wife, along with Sen. Joseph Lieberman and his, were caught dining in a posh Washington D.C. hotel.
Certainly, aides to Barack Obama were incredulous about the alternate versions of reality being presented from the McCain camp.
"When this crisis emerged, Senator McCain's first reaction was to say the economy is fundamentally strong," said chief strategist David Axelrod. "The next day, he suggested a commission to study this. And by eight days later, he said it was such a crisis that he was going to suspend his campaign. :lol :lol
He showed up a day later in Washington... It isn't clear what his role was. So it's a little bit of fiction to now claim credit for it. That's not the important thing, though. The important thing is that the principles that Senator Obama outlined originally are now embraced and taxpayers will be protected."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/0...tml?view=print
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Run DMC should do a new McConfused theme song "Lurch This Way" :lol
I disagree. If you look up The Bradley Effect, it explains the idea. I have a solid enough belief that democrats are more racist than they let on to. There is also the unusual polling data where in that ABC poll, too many people didn't indicate their party persuasion. 38% democrat and 28% republican? Come on now. Isn't the way they indicate their affiliation closer to 40% or 45% for each party? With republicans natural inclination to vote for McCain, and a fear of being called a racist, many will say they are neither. Democrats who don't want to vote for Obama also fear being thought of as a racist is they choose McCain, so they too lie in the polls. Look at all the talk out there telling people they are racist if they don't vote for Obama. Talk like that increases the odds of the The Bradley Effect being a real factor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Findog
In my experience, most the people who only give a cell number are minors. Adults prefer not be give out their cell numbers to people who release them to 3rd parties. How many of these telephone polls ask the age, and then can also rely on the person being polled to be honest about it? Kids like to be counted! It makes them feel cool.Quote:
Originally Posted by ploto
Don't blow these ideas off. Keep an open mind.
The Bradley effect is a myth. It hasn't been reflected in polls since the early 90's. If you're counting on it to rescue McCain, good luck:
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2008/...ey-effect.html
Quote:
Many commentators -- the preponderance of them conservative but also some liberals -- take it as an article of faith that the current polling numbers overstate Barack Obama's position because of the so-called Bradley Effect: the notion that some material number of voters will lie about their intentions to pollsters, claiming that they will vote for a black candidate when in fact they will vote for the white guy.
A fairly typical example comes in the form of a blind quote from a Democratic strategist this morning at The Politico:
A huge challenge for Obama, insiders say, is simply determining how much skin color will matter in November. Race is nearly impossible to poll – no one ever says “I’m a racist” – and no campaign wants it revealed they are even asking questions on the issue.
“It’s the uncertainty that kills me – we know it’s going to be factor, but how big a factor?” asks a Democratic operative with ties to the Obama camp. “How do you even measure such a thing?"
Is there really so much uncertainty as this "operative" implies? Black candidates run races every cycle for the Congress and for the Governor's Mansion, and academics have spent copious time dissecting those results. And while we've never before had a major party nominate a black man for President, we did just finish an exceptionally competitive primary campaign in which a black candidate ran against an extremely popular white candidate with more than 35 million voters participating.
As we have described here before, polling numbers from the primaries suggested no presence of a Bradley Effect. On the contrary, it was Barack Obama -- not Hillary Clinton -- who somewhat outperformed his polls on Election Day.
The table below reflects 31 states in which at least three separate polls were released within 14 days of that state's primary or caucus. We compare the final trendline estimate from Pollster.com against the actual results from that state:
On average, Barack Obama overperformed the Pollster.com trendline by 3.3 points on election day.
There are some important differences by region. Using regions as defined by the US Census Bureau, Barack Obama overperformed his polls by an average of 7.2 points in the South. This effect appears to be most substantial in states with larger black populations; I have suggested before that it might stem from a sort of reverse Bradley Effect in which black voters were reluctant to disclose to a (presumed) white interviewer that they were about to vote for a black candidate.
Obama also outperformed his polls in the Midwest and the West (although there is not much data to go on in the latter case). The one region where Hillary Clinton overperformed her numbers was in the Northeast, bettering the pre-election trendline by 1.8 points. Recall that the Bradley Effect phenomenon describes covert rather than overt manifestations of racism. It may be that in the Northeast, which is arguably the most "politically correct" region of the country, expressions of racism are the least socially acceptable, and that therefore some people may misstate their intentions to pollsters. By contrast, in the South and the Midwest, if people are racist they will usually be pretty open about it, and in the West, which is nation's most multicultural region, there may be relatively little racism, either expressed or implicit.
The good news for Barack Obama is that, among the Northeastern states, only New Hampshire appears to be competitive -- and Obama would gladly trade a Bradley Effect in New Hampshire for a reverse Bradley Effect in a state like North Carolina. (Pennsylvania, it should be noted, is also defined by the Census Bureau as being in the Northeast, but in terms of political demography, it shares far more in common with the Midwest).
So why do we keep hearing so much about the Bradley Effect? Apart from the fact that it is a good way to fill column space on a slow news day, it seems that there are three or four reasons why the myth perpetuates itself:
1. Misunderstanding the Bradley Effect. Denying the existence of the Bradley Effect does not mean denying that some people vote on the basis of race. I have no doubt that some people will vote against Barack Obama because he is black. Indeed, I suspect that almost all of us either know such people, or know people who know them (friends and relatives of friends). I also have no doubt, by the way, that some people will vote for Barack Obama because he is black.
But the Bradley Effect is not an argument about whether people vote based on race. It's an argument about whether people will lie to pollsters. So long as race-based voters are honest about their intentions, Barack Obama's position is no worse than it appears to be in the polls.
2. Confusing Past with Present. There is fairly strong academic evidence that the Bradley Effect used to exist back in the 1980s and early 1990s. However, the evidence is just as strong that it does not exist any longer. The people who vouch for the existence of the Bradley Effect are not wrong so much as they are relying on dated evidence.
3. Confusing Exit Polls with pre-Election Polls. Unlike the normal, pre-election polls, exit polls conducted on the day of the election did substantially overstate Barack Obama's margins throughout the primaries. This is something to keep in mind at about 5 PM on November 4, when Matt Drudge and Jim Geraghty begin to leak exit poll results. It is not anything to worry about now, when we are trying to forecast the outcome from pre-election polling.
Nor is it clear the the discrepancies in the exit polls have anything to do with race; John Kerry, somewhat infamously, also underperformed his exit polls. The mechanics of conducting an exit poll are rather haphazard, involving a bunch of college kids and temp workers running around outside a polling place with clipboards and attempting to pass out survey forms to every Nth voter who leaves the ballot booth. This is not much easier than it sounds, and introduces a lot of human error and other forms of sample bias. For this reason, exit polls are not really intended to be used as they so frequently are in the panicked hours before ballot counting begins -- the results need to be calibrated and weighted, and exit polling firms rely on comparing their polls against actual voting results in order to do so.
4. Cherry Picking Results. The notion of the Bradley Effect gained a lot of currency after the New Hampshire primary, when Hillary Clinton did much better than anyone expected and won the state. However, the 8.9-point gap separating the pre-election polls and the actual results in New Hampshire represented only the seventh-largest error in the primaries. There were bigger discrepancies in Iowa, South Carolina, Alabama, Georgia, Wisconsin and Mississippi, all of which favored Barack Obama. These discrepancies did not receive as much attention as New Hampshire because they did not change the outcome of the election. But mathematically speaking, they were just as important.
A related phenomenon is that the media often cherry-picks polling results within a given state. The Zogby poll that had Barack Obama ahead by 13 points in California received widespread attention; the SurveyUSA result that had Clinton 10 points ahead did not. Over the course of the primaries, polling results that had Barack Obama performing well generally made for better copy, since until at least mid-February, Obama was considered the underdog. But an informed reading of the polls, such as the Pollster.com method, reveals that Clinton did not overperform in states like California and Ohio nearly so much as the media tried to imply.
Any Bradley effect is likely to be extremely marginal, and will be cancelled out by record turnout by AA's.
Holy Shit!!!!! Thank God 'ol boutons came along and straightened it all out for us!:rollinQuote:
Originally Posted by boutons_