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What are your thoughts on the bailout?
I believe a bailout is necessary to avoid financial catastrophe. It's not a matter of good versus evil, but just a failure in the government's attempt to enter the marketplace and make home ownership more attainable. Worthy cause, but lousy implementation. People, businesses, and investments fail all the time, so hopefully we learn from our mistakes and do better next time.
Just more shit on a big shit pile.
I think its better to let everyone involved, including the stock holders to be allowed to fail. Bailout means no fear to do it again. Other companies will come in and pick up the pieces. The valid fear is that people will have a hard time getting loans. The solution then is to give the remaining financial institutes that have done right, help backing up the money the need to loan out.
It is also imperative to remove the various legislations that caused and allowed this to happen in the first place. It is total insanity[1] to consider any bailout without removing the causes.
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I want to vote : "Yes, but I hate those greedy assholes for getting us into this mess and I think they should either a)serve jail times, b) work for minimum wage or c)pay money out of their own pockets back to the government"
Its a sad day when we bail richers out at the expense of the people honestly working themselves to death. You never get true reform from a semi fixed problem. Its going to have to collapse completely for real change to happen.
yes, if it means people will lose their homes if there's no bailout.
They will lose their homes regardless. This has nothing to do with keeping people in their homes. They've already set up halfassed programs for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh, Gee!!
Agreed!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by BacktoBasics
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Its going to have to collapse completely for real change to happen.
then i vote noQuote:
Originally Posted by BacktoBasics
oh and you get no vote. Other more out of touch richers are the ones who get a vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh, Gee!!
That's not going to change with this bailout. This thing is all about Wall Street.Quote:
Originally Posted by Oh, Gee!!
The shitty thing is we are still going to have our recession either way. Actually I'm convinced that we were going to have a recession, but now with this bailout we're going to have another great depression.
We were going to have to go through the recession anyway. It's part of the natural cycle of a free market economy. Sort of like forest fires destroy but then give birth to new life.
But this thing is all about saving Wall Street's greedy asses.
Interesting, watching the vote right now on TV (House of Reps)
Currently:
Dems: 68 yea, 24 nay.
Repubs: 27 yeah, 38 nay.
Proud of the Republicans.
I couldn't agree more. Right now the banks are tightening up so much its tough to get anything done. This isn't going to change with the bailout. I'm expecting lending to be tight for at least another 2 years. No ones going to qualify to fill those empty homes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan
On a brighter side if you can buy into affordable apartment housing I'd jump. Especially if its a place that skips over pulling credit for rental approvals.
117-112 is the vote in the House right now :wow
Of course, if you have your financial house in order (wow, that was a lot of unintended puns...) you can get a great deal for a home. Lenders are lining up for those with excellent financial backgrounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by BacktoBasics
150-144. 140 votes outstanding, 68 votes needed to pass.
Damn.
I will say this... If the House doesn't pass this thing, you are going to see the greatest one day drop in the stock market ever.
This would make Black Monday look like a good day.
:wow :wow
162 yea
164 nay
Lots of Republicans left to go.
If every Democrat left to vote votes yea this will pass by 4 votes at this point.
This is amazing. May be witnessing history in the next 5 minutes.
Good lord, this is going to be razor thin.
DOW is in free fall at the moment.
Yea:188---Nay:207
ha look at that drop
They need 218 to pass, not going to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistons < Spurs
DOW dropped 400 points in the last two minutes. Holy shit.
The DOW is down 538
This isn't looking too good.
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Nay already at 220
DOW down 600
That sucking sound you're hearing is Wall Street in free fall.
Well not entirely but for the most part thats true. They moved the prime requirements way up. This is an addition to the complete or almost complete lack of 2nd tier and subprime lending.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan
Whats was once 700 (prime) turned into 720 and last I checked the majority of banks moved that figure up to 740. I've been selling for over 12 years. I've seen scores above 740 9 times.....of the thousands of apps I've seen.
Even people with great credit 675 or better will see higher rates and probably be required to have some kind of down payment. What was once an affordable house may not be now. Even with the prices of homes going down.
Remember they're coming down from what was an absurdly inflated value to begin with. Not to mention the appraisals will hardly alter at all. Property tax will take the front seat on that deal. People think they're getting the deal of a lifetime but its nothing more than slightly less inflation.
Mix in the higher cost of everything around us and its just not as managable as it once was.
gold up $20
Pelosi just got pantsed on national television. :wow
down 689
Wow...back to square one, I guess?
Damn. Dow has gone from -100 to -700 in the last couple of minutes.
'Cuz I'm free......... free fallin'.............. [/DOW]
Partisan blame is more important to that bitch than common folk going broke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan
I'm sure for the broke bastards on this board this is good news, because maybe people can be as broke as you.
For those of you that have any equity such as, home equity, go ahead a discount the value 30%. For those of you who have a job, don't hold your breath.
good luck all. You showed the wall street fat cats.
:wow I follow CNN's money page for the stock info...apparently mine hasn't updated yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pistons < Spurs
They will probably try to re-vote again today. Worst case it's back to the drawing board.
Republicans: 65 yea, 133 nay. Fuck yeah!
Yea:205
Nay:228
DOW recovering a bit ... only down 495 now
CNBC reporting Dems pissed, expected Republicans to deliver 90 yea votes, got 65.
Suck it, Pelosi.
She stood up and launched into that partisan tirade this morning trying to twist them into going along with this, and she just got a huge middle finger from Republicans in the House.
I love those guys.
And I checked, my rep voted 'Nea'. Good job :tu
The SEC really fucked up in changing the short selling rules last year... I wonder how much of this was a forced bear run by short sellers?
And that's about how accurate the media is on polling data for democrats as well. If the trend continues, McCain will win by how much?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan
207-226, they can still switch votes.
Republicans:
66 yeah, 132 nay.
Dems: 141 yea, 94 nay.
Oil is in free fall, under $100 a barrel now. Gold up over $20 an ounce.
This would be hilarious if I didn't have money in the market right now.
guess twocents is a dimmo-crap now.
I wish I could see Pelosi's botoxed ugly ass grill right now, that's a Mastercard ad waiting to happen.
CNBC: reporting that senior Dem staff is saying they aren't going to get the votes to pass this.
:tu on oil dropping...not like it'll help us out any since gas prices are so slow to drop.
yes, this whole mess is historical.
Robbery of taxpayers in broad daylight by the financial/political elite to pay for their crimes.
Saw a good analogy: Capitalists putting a gun to their own heads and threatening to pull the trigger if we don't pay.
btw, McWorse's Executive would have done exactly as dubya's, stick that up ya'll asses and cogitate on it as you plan to vote for McWorse and pitbull bitch.
As dubya said, "fool me once, shame on me, ......" he forgot the rest :lol
"Oh shit, we can't blame this on the Republicans, what do we do now?" [/Pelosi]
Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_
I know you're a partisan bitch, but look at the scoreboard dipshit.
Repubs: 132 nay, 66 yea.
Dems: 141 yea, 94 nay.
McCain told the House Republicans last week he backed them in their actions.
Republicans with free market ideals digging their heels in. Team America, fuck yeah!
:tuQuote:
Republican Jeb Hensarling of Texas, a leading conservative, said the bill puts the country "on the slippery slope to socialism. If you lose your ability to fail, soon you will lose your ability to succeed."
it ain't bugaboo socialism, it's robbery.
Paulsen set the framework, and nobody had the sense and balls to change the framework to something completely different. dicking around within Paulsen's framework is playing his game. kick his corrupt, self-serving ass out of the game and start a new game.
Holding the vote open and they just had another person switch to the 'nay' vote.
Going to revote. Damn.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan
:lol
Well, if it's in an active 401k, just rmember, the value will recover, and right now, we are buying stocks at a lower amount per share.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan
That equals more new stocks in our plans!
Damn, it's someone Texas trying to motion to reconsider.
I'm not even thinking about my 401k at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
I'm talking trading stocks.
Bill withdrawn :wow
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan
He changed his mind
There's still a lot to play out but at this point you have to say that the Republicans have just scored some huge points for the election this fall. The people of America said no, and they listened. Dems falling over themselves to say yea (except for a few brave souls on that side of the aisle).
I'm glad to see so many conservatives relish the crash of the American Economy. AHF, stay classy :tu
What's weird is they hadn't closed the vote, he could have changed it without doing that.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFanFirst
I can only think it was a signal to some fellow Republicans trying to get them to change their votes.
there are some seriously emotional calls on CSPAN right now
It'll be a learning lesson for many.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
Its likely the only thing left that could actual propel this country into better times.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
Well, I'm sorry then. Do you by chance do 'bottom fishing?' I understand it better than other aspects of the market. I'm willing to pick mutual funds, but I never too the time to be confident with stocks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan
I guess I misunderstood then. I thought he decided not to change his vote because he was being forced to do it right then...he didn't have a chance to think about it more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan
It won't crash. I'm sorry you don't know shit about economics. We are going to have a recession one way or another.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
All this bill would have done was kick that can down the road, put more of your and my money in the pockets of the Wall Street fucks who put us into this situation anyway, and make that recession even more painful for us when it gets here.
As I said, my feelings are this country needs a recession to begin recovery anyway. This bailout would have ensured a depression. We can have our recession and get out of it without a depression if this bill isn't passed.
Add a trillion dollars in toxic debt to that recession we need to go through, and you're looking at another Great Depression.
And yeah, I'm against financial socialism and am damn proud of anyone on either side of the aisle there in the HOR who voted no today.
Yeah, he was basically moving that they crumble up the paper with the votes on it and start the voting over again from scratch. Basically, a re-vote.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFanFirst
we are fucked for about 6-10 years, but after that we should be sweet
That's right, be a liberal lemming and choose not to understand the rammifications of passing this bill as is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
We are better of to have a recession that the depression this bill will cause.
Where did I say I thought this was the answer? I find it troubling you're having such a good time you fuckstick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan
Yeah. I've gotten into the market over the last year and made some gains, but today is a bit of a hit so far. It will go back up over time but in the short term I'd really feel better if I didn't have any money at play in the market.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
Oh I'm sorry I forgot you guys majored in economics from Harvard..Yale...Youngstown State?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
Hell no. The hard knocks of real life university!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
Yet you're so sure this thing would've failed. Why, because of your free market ideals?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
Why shouldn't I have a good time with this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
- It was a horrible deal for American taxpayers. The only people this was going to be good for was the ones on Wall Street who got us in this mess.
- Pelosi came out this morning and talked a bunch of shit about McCain and the Republicans and how they needed to get on board the Democratic plan that her, Reid, Dodd, and Frank came up with that was so great.
She got a big fuck you by the Republicans today, and many in her own party as well. Awesome leadership there by her in her own house, look at how many Dems voted against it.
- It gives me hope for our country. Many in this country were asleep at the wheel and only could think as far as the media could tell them to think. It's clear from the last week that Americans made it crystal clear to their representatives in D.C. that they are tired of Wall Street and D.C. big players deciding the direction of this country.
I'm a student of history and the economy. Like I said, we are going to have a recession regardless. This will hasten that (assuming they don't come up with another bill), but the sooner we get it over with the sooner our country (and the world) can move on.
Our financial system has a gaping head wound, and all this bill would have done was put a butterfly bandaid on it. We still would have bled out, but the Wall Street bastards would have been sitting on a pile of gold at the end of it while the rest of us died a slow, bloody death.
Because it does nothing to solve the problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
Those toxic debts can't be traded for used toilet paper, yet D.C. and Wall Street are trying to convince everyone that it's worth $700 billion AND we'll make a profit :lol
Jim Kramer thinks it is a good thing and he said he'd invest in the plan if he could. I'm no economic genius regardless of what some of you may think.
The truth of the matter Shasta is that they will buy off enough people in the House to get this vote to go through, I'm afraid.
That, or come back with a better version of this bill (to the public's perception) that doesn't have as much bullshit in it.
I'm not holding my breathe on this being a permanent solution.
Yeah, I can't see any reason why a former Goldman Sachs guy that is still sitting on a bunch of GS stock would want to see this go through. :rolleyesQuote:
Originally Posted by JoeChalupa
LMAO, Dems blaming Republicans for not delivering the votes.
Fuck them (Dems).
WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT PELOSI AND PARTISAN POLITICS?!?!? She's doing what she thought was best to get the bill to pass. God you're such a fucking cuntbag. People are losing their savings right now. By the end of the week a lot of people might be broke. Yet you're loving every minute of this. Go fuck yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan
Support the good institutions. Let the bad ones fail. viva la free market :tu
I'm not happy with what the immediate results will be from this failing, but the bailout was a horrible idea from the beginning.
Probably. But the psyche of americans comes into play (something some people fail to realize) and the economy could crash as a result. A lot of people don't understand economics well enough to know whether this was a good deal or not. They see the stock market fall and they in turn take their money out of banks. Then the market falls further and so on.Quote:
Originally Posted by romad_20
I never thought I would ever say this, but today I'm switching my vote to Obama.
Republican and their class warfare bs was the final straw. Just a bunch of talk, but when it comes down to it their distorted sense of ideology is more important the common freakin sense.
I'll change my sig later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan
clueless.:bang
No one's going to lose their savings this week, all savings are insured up to $100K, and if you've got $100K in the bank you're smart enough to not put it all in one place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
Pelosi is a bitch. I am laughing at her because her, Dodd, Frank, Paulson, and Bush all got together in a room and decided this bailout in secret. And she thought she was hot shit for coming up with a plan to fuck us all over while blaming it on the Republicans.
So you can call me partisan if you want, fine, you're been as much of a partisan bitch for the left on this forum since you joined.
McCain couldn't deliver?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan
If you mean the bill, I was only sure of failure as long as it retains Pelosi's earmarks. Both sides are willing to sell our future out to their elitist friends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
If you mean that the bill will fail if implemented, yes to that too. Corporate sharks say the buyout os about double the $700 billion, or about $1.4 trillion. Short of that, the bill is a total waste of money. Then on top of that, the future will repeat without getting rid of the regulations that allowed and caused this. The free market wasn't free. Lenders were forced to make bad loans as part of community development. That, especially, needs to be removed.
Class warfare against the billionaires on Wall Street? Guilty as charged.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2centsworth
By the way, that previous post was tongue in cheek partially. There will be a new bill passed or they will get the votes for this one.
I'm just glad to see someone take a stand against all the closed door bullshit that's been going on the last week or so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2centsworth
I don't understand how party even plays into this. Significant numbers on both sides of the aisle voted "No."