a message from Andrew Jackson 1832

“Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.”

I think a lot of your posts are over the top.

Here's a better quote from Thomas Jefferson.

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The central bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the Principles and form of our Constitution. I am an Enemy to all banks discounting bills or notes for anything but Coin. If the American People allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the People of all their Property until their Children will wake up homeless on the continent their Fathers conquered.

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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Thomas Jefferson was the original fiscal conservative it seemed.

The 19th century British politician Andrew Tytler was supposed to have said, “a democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.” ‘Always’ is a very strong term; and it presupposes that information has no cautionary effect on the public.

Experience has shown information eventually filters through to the public, but it takes a long time. At some point everyone learns that no demagogue can deliver on his promises, but always on the reverse. A dictatorship is always temporary in nature; a permanent tyranny cannot exist. It will continue up until the time that it breaks down from its brutality and inefficiency. From that moment on, the individual will realize that he can defy it without much fear of reprisal, with the result that every tyranny will finally collapse from its own corruption, which is temporarily followed by a democracy.

Thanks alot Democrats.

Spam was not created until 1937.

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a democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.”

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Welcome to modern day America....

Oh that's just wonderful

A dictatorship?

Screw it! I don't care anymore as long as I got food on my table and some beer and I can watch TV and post on Spurstalk. Someone can pay off my credit cards for me or I can default and let it ride just like everyone else is gonna do in this country.

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Originally Posted by 42 B.C.

"A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear."

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Marcuuuuuus Tullius Ci-Ci-Ci-Cicerooooooooooooo

so AHF are you a neocon or not? its hard to tell

Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism.
George Washington

It is the investor class, not Joe Sixpack, that is trying to swing $700 billion their way. It's not the dems waddling up to the public trough.

I miss the days of this country where our Presidents knew how to do more than just pander to the ignorant massive dregs of the American public. Yes, that goes for McCain AND Obama.

Is it so much to ask for a President that actually knows a lot about a lot?

"when fascism comes to America, it will be draped in the flag and carrying a Bible"

--- Sinclair Lewis, It Can't Happen Here, 1935.

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Originally Posted by mookie2001

so AHF are you a neocon or not? its hard to tell

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I don't know if you're being serious or a smart ass or what.

Really my views are most in line with the libertarian party. The problem is just that they don't have enough traction in this country, due to the overly simplistic media driven society we live in.

As such, for the foreseeable future, as has been for the past 4 elections now, I'm having to choose between the lesser of two evils. That sucks, but it is what it is.

I've been pretty outspoken against Obama, but for good reason - he's a socialist through and through and this country can't afford what he's proposing to do to it.

cant afford more war either, which caused the gas prices, which caused this recession



and shit john mccain once had to bright idea to give 20 million illegals amnesty, how does that relate to socialism?

wasnt trying to scoff you, thats why the political forum is tired hackneyed

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Originally Posted by mookie2001

cant afford more war either, which caused the gas prices, which caused this recession

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I guess that simple logic sounds great if that's what you want to believe. Reality is a bit more complicated.

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“a democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship.”

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Good thing our founding fathers didn't give us a democracy. Things might get ugly in our system but it has the ability to fix itself without collapsing.

Democracies do not work if there is not a huge middle class. If there are only super rich and poor, then that will lead to the rise of a facist dictatorship or communism.

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Originally Posted by mookie2001

cant afford more war either, which caused the gas prices, which caused this recession

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Agreed. I have family in the military, some over in Iraq. They say it's time to get out of there and let the Iraqis deal with their own issues. As a student of history, the simple fact of the matter is the only time those in the Middle East have stopped fighting each other is when they turn to fight foreigners.

Whether we stay 5 years or 50, the day we leave all hell will break loose. Tribes have long memories over there.

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and shit john mccain once had to bright idea to give 20 million illegals amnesty, how does that relate to socialism?

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Not sure I follow you on that one. The illegal situation is one that pisses me off. My mom had to wait 10 years to emigrate to the U.S. legally. Every person here illegally should have to go back to their country and if they want to come, do so through the proper channels, with the proper processing, etc.

Unfortunately too many politicians want to offer amnesty, and it is a topic I reluctantly realize will not be solved the way I want. So all I can hope for is that if illegals are offered amnesty, that there is some sort of tax reform (i.e., consumption tax and a move away from the way we currently do things) so they pay their fair share.

In reality, shit looks pretty bleak for our future. There's just too much corruption at the high levels of government, and not enough good American leaders left in D.C.

What happened in the House of Reps today gave me hope that someone in D.C. actually still gives a damn about what their constituents have to say, but I still suspect by the end of the week we will have seen some sort of bailout package passed.

And with that another nail in the coffin of our country's future.

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Originally Posted by Indazone

Democracies do not work if there is not a huge middle class. If there are only super rich and poor, then that will lead to the rise of a facist dictatorship or communism.

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This seems lost on folks in D.C. and the media these days. It's all about class warfare from the left. They leverage the wants of the have nots against what the haves possess, and use that leverage to get themselves in power under the guise of change and making things 'fair'.

The problem is our nation has become one of instant gratification, where people are told it's okay to borrow and live way beyond their means so they can have the latest TVs, iPods, a new car, a big ass house, etc.

The American dream has been revised by the left from being about working your ass off to afford a good home, cars, provide for your family into the idea that the American dream should be provided for you by the government on the back of taxes of the rich who already have those things.

I really don't know where our country is going if we keep this up (other than into the abyss), but there doesn't seem to be the kind of leadership needed to right the ship either. With each passing day the divide grows, hell look at all the hate and spite here on this forum.

At some point we're going to hit the breaking point, and it's going to be an ugly day when that comes.

It's funny that the Repubs are now so anti bank and anti-elite now. Ridiculous how you guys are now trying to call Thomas Jefferson a fiscal conservative. I'm sure you guys know nothing about what actually happened back then.

Please research on the differences in philosophy between Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson/James Madison. Hamilton (Washington's right hand man and the first Secretary of the Treasury) is basically the man who built the first National Bank (Bank of the United States). Hamilton believed in trickle down economics while Jefferson and Madison were against it. Repubs of today are easily much more Hamiltonian than Jeffersonian in every which way.

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In 1804, Thomas Jefferson’s vice president Aaron Burr had also avoided murder charges after killing former Treasury secretary and founding father Alexander Hamilton in a duel.

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I propose a tournament to raise funds for the current economic crisis.

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Originally Posted by cool hand

“Gentlemen, I have had men watching you for a long time, and I am convinced that you have used the funds of the bank to speculate in the breadstuffs of the country. When you won, you divided the profits amongst you, and when you lost, you charged it to the bank. You tell me that if I take the deposits from the bank and annul its charter, I shall ruin ten thousand families. That may be true, gentlemen, but that is your sin! Should I let you go on, you will ruin fifty thousand families, and that would be my sin! You are a den of vipers and thieves. I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out.”

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Andrew Jackson was a religious nut-job? Who knew.

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

I think a lot of your posts are over the top.

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whoa...that speaks volumes if AHF says it. over the top for AHF even. you got problems, cool hand.

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Originally Posted by Purple & Gold

It's funny that the Repubs are now so anti bank and anti-elite now. Ridiculous how you guys are now trying to call Thomas Jefferson a fiscal conservative. I'm sure you guys know nothing about what actually happened back then.

Please research on the differences in philosophy between Alexander Hamilton and Thomas Jefferson/James Madison. Hamilton (Washington's right hand man and the first Secretary of the Treasury) is basically the man who built the first National Bank (Bank of the United States). Hamilton believed in trickle down economics while Jefferson and Madison were against it. Repubs of today are easily much more Hamiltonian than Jeffersonian in every which way.

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Um, true fiscal conservatives have always been anti-bank and anti-elite.

The problem for people like you is you want to stereotype folks because they don't support Obama.

C'mon, I know someone out there has to support my tournament idea :depressed

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Originally Posted by Anti.Hero

C'mon, I know someone out there has to support my tournament idea :depressed

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I thought it went without saying.

Great idea.

I'm picturing "Running Man" - pay per view?

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

Um, true fiscal conservatives have always been anti-bank and anti-elite.

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:lol :lol That's a good one keep em coming. Can't get enough of these backtracking repubs. Tell me again how great Trickle Down Economics is.