5 Steps to Save the Republican Party

Republicans need to go back to the Contract with America Days. Another Contract with the following points will help save the party and the country.

1. Commit to a Balanced Budget.

2. Commit to radical reduction of the national debt.

3. Commit to government's gradual exit from the free-market place.

4. Commit to Immigration Reform. Two year path to citizenship for all current illegals with the clock starting ASAP. After two years deport. Secure the borders.

5. Pro-Life through changing people's hearts and minds.


I don't recognize the current GOP.

Who would believe them at this point...

That is a good list, I approve. In reality, however, this is what will happen to revitalize them:

1. Watch the Democrats gain control of the House, Senate and White House.

2. Wait 2 Years.

step 6. get a candidate that doesn't constantly repeat that fucking story about eisenhower at normandy.

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Originally Posted by clambake

step 6. get a candidate that doesn't constantly repeat that fucking story about eisenhower at normandy.

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Oh, you will hear it and you will like it.

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Originally Posted by clambake

step 6. get a candidate that doesn't constantly repeat that fucking story about eisenhower at normandy.

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in actuality your types help your party, because it gives the dumb dumbs on the right hope.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

in actuality your types help your party, because it gives the dumb dumbs on the right hope.

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:lol but in all seriousness, he told that fucking story AGAIN this morning.

palin has nowhere to go but up, and i hope she does well tonight. and if they should win, i hope mccain kicks the bucket because we don't need ancient history to run this country.

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Originally Posted by clambake

:lol but in all seriousness, he told that fucking story AGAIN this morning.

palin has nowhere to go but up, and i hope she does well tonight. and if they should win, i hope mccain kicks the bucket because we don't need ancient history to run this country.

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it wasn't a compliment. McCain's war hero stories on honrable and he shouldn't be ashamed to use them as evidence he cares about this country. People like you who crap on him brings the democrat party down enough where it doesn't require all that much effort for the republicans to win.

you're doing a disserve to our country.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

it wasn't a compliment. McCain's war hero stories on honrable and he shouldn't be ashamed to use them as evidence he cares about this country. People like you who crap on him brings the democrat party down enough where it doesn't require all that much effort for the republicans to win.

you're doing a disserve to our country.

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yeah, he was at normandy. good take 2cent. with any luck we can kick back and beg him to tell a story about the "trench wars" because all that old shit has so much to do with now.

you've been breathing too much air from his gas bag.

It'll take more than 5 steps to fix the republican party.

If they just had a solid plan to do #1 they'd be more than halfway to getting my vote.

Same thing for the Dems... those damn entitlement programs make me sick. I think all forms of welfare/government handouts should be overhauled and re-examined.

[QUOTE=jman3000;2802245]If they just had a solid plan to do #1 they'd be more than halfway to getting my vote.

Same thing for the Dems... those damn entitlement programs make me sick. I think all forms of welfare/government handouts should be overhauled and re-examined.[/QUOTE]


Thats my biggest gripe. Give these fuckers a timeline or something to ge their shit straight or you take that crap away. I live in the city and it sickens me when I see my other neighbors getting up early having to go work when I;m coming in from work, and seeing the handoutess getting up around noon having a grand ole time just walking the streets, dancing, whatever besides being productive.

There needs to be an overhaul of the Republican party and no one wants it more than me. Its hard to hold views that are so off kilter from one party and actually feel satisfied when I allign myself with either party. I want the Republicans to balance out the horrible notions Dems have and I want Dems to do the same. But for that to happen both parties have to be at the top of their games and thats simply not the case right now.

They both actually suck right now, but the Republicans suck a good deal more.

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Originally Posted by JoeChalupa

It'll take more than 5 steps to fix the republican party.

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no, those five steps would dominate the political landscape. protecting your right to have homosexual flings isn't all that important imo.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

no, those five steps would dominate the political landscape. protecting your right to have homosexual flings isn't all that important imo.

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why are republicans so fixated on homo's?

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Originally Posted by 101A

That is a good list, I approve. In reality, however, this is what will happen to revitalize them:

1. Watch the Democrats gain control of the House, Senate and White House.

2. Wait 2 Years.

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Almost my thoughts exactly. Except I think we'll be waiting 4 years. Dems will be able to use the blame Bush excuse long enough to hold the house one more round.

Republicans have lost their way, power corrupts. Getting their ass kicked thoroughly is the only way they'll return to being the reform party.

Dems don't have a chance long term. We'll be in at least a shallow recession for two years, probably longer with the Dems able to do what they want. Foreign investors are saying it will probably take 10 years for them to really have confidence in wall street again so the lack of foreign money will be a strain also. Iran is feeling bold and will move more aggressively on nucs plus I just saw a report they are working on a long range ballistic missile. Putin will look into Obama's eyes and see a pussy.

No matter who is in the white house the next four years are going to be The Carter Years Revisted. So now I say think long term and say Go Obama!

"those damn entitlement programs make me sick"

but

$600B to be blown every year on the military

$Bs in tax breaks/subsidies for the super rich and corps

$Bs in tax breaks/subsidies for the farmers

etc, etc.

... are all ok with you.

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Originally Posted by clambake

why are republicans so fixated on homo's?

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Fixated on Same Sex Marriage is more accurate. The day after same sex marriage is the law of the land the ACLU will start filing lawsuits against churces to force them to perform same sex marriages. The day priests, rabbis, pastors & preachers are forced by the government to perform something they think is a sin in the eyes of god is the day fag bashing becomes really popular again.

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Originally Posted by boutons_

"those damn entitlement programs make me sick"

but

$600B to be blown every year on the military

$Bs in tax breaks/subsidies for the super rich and corps

$Bs in tax breaks/subsidies for the farmers

etc, etc.

... are all ok with you.

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Not all. Defense spending is too low. Low taxes I like. Dems & Repubs both do the farmer thing. I'm not to fond of it but then again I like food and I like it cheap.

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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy

Fixated on Same Sex Marriage is more accurate. The day after same sex marriage is the law of the land the ACLU will start filing lawsuits against churces to force them to perform same sex marriages. The day priests, rabbis, pastors & preachers are forced by the government to perform something they think is a sin in the eyes of god is the day fag bashing becomes really popular again.

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what day is that going to be?

i should have asked why republicans are such alarmist. how can they function having to lug around so much fear?

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1. Commit to a Balanced Budget.

2. Commit to radical reduction of the national debt.

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I'll believe it when I see it. Too many assholes with their hands out expecting favors after giving their local congressman their bribes.

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3. Commit to government's gradual exit from the free-market place.

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Approving one of the biggest socialist program in this country's history yesterday wasn't a good start. Washington has been for socialism for the rich for a while now (see the ridiculous airline bailouts for another example).

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4. Commit to Immigration Reform. Two year path to citizenship for all current illegals with the clock starting ASAP. After two years deport. Secure the borders.

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This will never happen in this country. There's too much money to be made exploiting illegals in the US. An example: If the illegals working in our meat industry become legal, do you think there's any way they work at the death trap meat-packing plants for the wages they're pulling? When they can actually go to the government with the shit they have to go through? Our meat-packing industry isn't very different from what it was when Upton Sinclair wrote The Jungle, and it would cost these companies huge money to reform. Much cheaper to continue buying off Washington.

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5. Pro-Life through changing people's hearts and minds.

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I am personally disgusted by abortion, which is why I always use condoms. I wish the right wing would quit trying to pacify the evangelicals and push condom use and contraception in classes instead of greatly exaggerating their failures and pushing a doomed strategy like abstinence education. As long as Republicans need the Baptist vote they will continue pushing these holier than thou programs like abstinence education, and our kids will continue having unwanted, terminated pregnancies because they didn't know contraception works.

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I don't recognize the current GOP.

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Because they're one and the same with the current Democrat Party.

If the GOP would just tell the Christian Right to go fuck off, they'd be in good shape.

I have no problem with religious beliefs per se, but trying to impose a theocratic agenda on people is not going to work. "Conservative Christianity" is neither conservative nor christian.

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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy

Fixated on Same Sex Marriage is more accurate. The day after same sex marriage is the law of the land the ACLU will start filing lawsuits against churces to force them to perform same sex marriages. The day priests, rabbis, pastors & preachers are forced by the government to perform something they think is a sin in the eyes of god is the day fag bashing becomes really popular again.

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They might sue, but on what grounds would they win?

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

They might sue, but on what grounds would they win?

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I don't know but you know they'll try. I'm not very religous. I don't really care. I'm just saying the ACLU would try that and if they win, it'll get ugly.

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Originally Posted by clambake

why are republicans so fixated on homo's?

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for the 50th time, please learn to read.

The Republican party will not change its ways if it stays in power. This is why, if you are a true Republican, you are hoping McCain loses so that the Republican party will be forced to find its identity again.

Right now it appears to be an amalgamation of the social conservatives, neo-cons, and traditional fiscal conservatives. They have been winning elections by appealing to social conservatives and neo-cons on the premise that they will be fiscally responsible, which has turned out not to be true.

republicans and homophobia go hand in hand.

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Originally Posted by JoeChalupa

republicans and homophobia go hand in hand.

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I promise when I'm in power your right to a gay lover will be protected.




































j/k joe

1. Drop that McCain guy and nominate Ron Paul for President.

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Originally Posted by Xylus

1. Drop that McCain guy and nominate Ron Paul for President.

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at this rate paul is going to end up with more votes.

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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy

Not all. Defense spending is too low. Low taxes I like. Dems & Repubs both do the farmer thing. I'm not to fond of it but then again I like food and I like it cheap.

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Defense spending is too low? It accounts for 20% of the Federal Budget.

Both McCain and Obama will cut defense spending and have openly stated so.

It's insane to allocate that high a % to defense in 2008 given the severe economic and national problems in the USA right now and a $10 Trillion national debt.

When your military is light years better than the 2nd strongest military in the world, your incremental return on investment from pouring more money into this sector is low. You're already far and away #1.

You want to heavily invest in staying on top technologically, but there's no question on an aggregate level defense spending needs to and will decline with the next President. This includes the miserably failed Iraq War, which has been a negative return on investment for invested tax dollar.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

Republicans need to go back to the Contract with America Days. Another Contract with the following points will help save the party and the country.

1. Commit to a Balanced Budget.

2. Commit to radical reduction of the national debt.

3. Commit to government's gradual exit from the free-market place.

4. Commit to Immigration Reform. Two year path to citizenship for all current illegals with the clock starting ASAP. After two years deport. Secure the borders.

5. Pro-Life through changing people's hearts and minds.


I don't recognize the current GOP.

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#1 and #2 just aren't realistic today.

We know that #2 has been compromised in the near term due to the pending bailout.

Also, while #1 is a great ideological long-term goal, it's just not realistic as a near term goal given that whoever the next President is will need to strongly consider a temporary cut in federal revenues through easing tax policies since we are undoubtedly in a recession which has yet to peak.

I don't understand why you would think #5 would work. People have heard all the arguments for and against pro-life and pro-choice for the last 20 plus years. It's such a deeply personal issue for most people that you are unlikely to just change their mind at this point through persuasion. It's always going to be an issue America as a whole is deeply divided on almost right down the middle.

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Originally Posted by bobbyjoe

Defense spending is too low? It accounts for 20% of the Federal Budget.

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that's the lowest it has ever been. In the 60s it was 40%. No need to cut it further.

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Both McCain and Obama will cut defense spending and have openly stated so.

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I've never heard McCain suggest that. Maybe cutting waste, but not cutting overall spending.

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It's insane to allocate that high a % to defense in 2008 given the severe economic and national problems in the USA right now and a $10 Trillion national debt.

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this is a joke, right? Our intelligence agencies are nearly what they should be. Our borders aren't secure and neither are other sensitive areas like nuclear plants etc... How in the world do you expect us to fight terrorism with a shrinking budget.

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When your military is light years better than the 2nd strongest military in the world, your incremental return on investment from pouring more money into this sector is low. You're already far and away #1.

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once will kill all the terrorist and then we should consider your idea of cutting defense spending like they did in the 90s.

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You want to heavily invest in staying on top technologically, but there's no question on an aggregate level defense spending needs to and will decline with the next President. This includes the miserably failed Iraq War, which has been a negative return on investment for invested tax dollar.

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Defense now has a rate of return? shoot War has a rate of return? what was the investment rate of return for WWII?:lol

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

that's the lowest it has ever been. In the 60s it was 40%. No need to cut it further.

I've never heard McCain suggest that. Maybe cutting waste, but not cutting overall spending.

this is a joke, right? Our intelligence agencies are nearly what they should be. Our borders aren't secure and neither are other sensitive areas like nuclear plants etc... How in the world do you expect us to fight terrorism with a shrinking budget.

once will kill all the terrorist and then we should consider your idea of cutting defense spending like they did in the 90s.

Defense now has a rate of return? shoot War has a rate of return? what was the investment rate of return for WWII?:lol

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Of course it does.

Every dollar the federal government spends has a rate of return. It may not be easy to pinpoint or measure, but as a government you have to assess the likely benefit of every dollar you spend and prioritize accordingly.

Obviously WWII had an off the charts return on investment. Obviously, Iraq was at the other end of the extreme.

McCain did allude to overall declines in defense spending as recently as the last debate.

I'm not suggesting that because overall defense spending needs to decline that specific areas within the larger defense umbrella like technology investment and the War on Terror need to decline. More $ will be poured into Afghan/Pakistan border. Investing in defense technology has always paid good dividends for America.

Your thesis was that Republicans need to committ to reducing the national debt dramatically and to have a balanced budget. For that to occur, every issue needs to be on the table, including defense.

Every big ticket expenditure of the federal budget must be scrutinized for potential cost savings. And defense is a huge ticket item at 20%.

You are right that defense spending as a % of the federal budget has declined relative to previous USA budget's. But when compared to the % of budget defense accounts for in the budget's of other nations in the world, we are off the charts high.

If you are serious about cutting the debt and balancing budgets, you have to look at cost saving in 3 major areas: Defense, SS#, and Healthcare. Nothing should be off the table when you have borrowed so much money as we have in the past 8 years (esp after the bailout).

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Originally Posted by bobbyjoe

Of course it does.

Every dollar the federal government spends has a rate of return. It may not be easy to pinpoint or measure, but as a government you have to assess the likely benefit of every dollar you spend and prioritize accordingly.

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so when it comes to war we calculate rate of return? if so, what was the rate of return on WWII?

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Obviously WWII had an off the charts return on investment. Obviously, Iraq was at the other end of the extreme.

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link?

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McCain did allude to overall declines in defense spending as recently as the last debate.

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link

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I'm not suggesting that because overall defense spending needs to decline that specific areas within the larger defense umbrella like technology investment and the War on Terror need to decline. More $ will be poured into Afghan/Pakistan border. Investing in defense technology has always paid good dividends for America.

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what happened to 20% is too much.

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Your thesis was that Republicans need to committ to reducing the national debt dramatically and to have a balanced budget. For that to occur, every issue needs to be on the table, including defense.

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nah, just health care.

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Every big ticket expenditure of the federal budget must be scrutinized for potential cost savings. And defense is a huge ticket item at 20%.

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entitlements represent 40% and growing. medicare's growth is off the charts. Defense at 20% is a historical low and is vitally important. Without defense we aint got jack.

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You are right that defense spending as a % of the federal budget has declined relative to previous USA budget's. But when compared to the % of budget defense accounts for in the budget's of other nations in the world, we are off the charts high.

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Why would the % of other coutries matter? also, don't you know we are the great equalizer in the world. Without the United States no one is safe.

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If you are serious about cutting the debt and balancing budgets, you have to look at cost saving in 3 major areas: Defense, SS#, and Healthcare. Nothing should be off the table when you have borrowed so much money as we have in the past 8 years (esp after the bailout).

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Leave Defense out of it, entitlements and pork are killing us. btw, do you know the true debt is 54 trillion when you include off balance sheet obligations? plus, the "bailout" will not cost us $700 billion. even our inept government should come close to breaking even on the deal.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

so when it comes to war we calculate rate of return? if so, what was the rate of return on WWII?

link?

link

what happened to 20% is too much.



nah, just health care.

entitlements represent 40% and growing. medicare's growth is off the charts. Defense at 20% is a historical low and is vitally important. Without defense we aint got jack.

Why would the % of other coutries matter? also, don't you know we are the great equalizer in the world. Without the United States no one is safe.



Leave Defense out of it, entitlements and pork are killing us. btw, do you know the true debt is 54 trillion when you include off balance sheet obligations? plus, the "bailout" will not cost us $700 billion. even our inept government should come close to breaking even on the deal.

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You are taking the "calculate the rate of return" with regards to War spending too literally.

What were the benefits of WWII? We saved the World basically. The benefits were tremendous so it goes without say that the money we invested paid off handsomely.

What I am saying is that every government expenditure needs to have a thorough cost: benefit analysis. No way can a sector which accounts for 1/5th of all federal spending simply be declared off the table at a time like this when every dollar counts.

I would argue that you can still aggressively fight the War on Terror, continue to invest heavily in defense technologically, and get the overall figure below 20%. It's all about reprioritizing the entire defense spending budget. Some areas can still increase, if you trim enough fat to lower the overall #. Getting the heck out of Iraq is step #1.

Addressing only health care and pork barrell spending aren't going to get you there.

Pork Barrell spending accounts for a microscopic % (I believe under 1%) of our federal budget. Eliminate every dollar of pork barrell spending and you've put a bandaid on someone who's bleeding to death. Pork Barrell spending is more a symbol of what ails our political system than anything else. It's actual impact on the bottomline of our national debt and consistent annual federal deficits is vastly overstated.

BTW, I agree that the net cost of the bailout will not be anywhere near $700 B and may well end up being profitable. I'm in the pro-bailout camp. But nevertheless, we're temporarily borrowing a ton of money. The holding period on some of these assets is going to be very significant, so it will take many many years to recoup the investment. So in my mind, absolutely, in light of this do you need to take every reasonable step towards cutting future borrowing, especially given that future borrowing costs aren't going to be as cheap to the US govt as they are know.

This to me means, you have to start making difficult choices and I feel defense is too large of an expenditure on an absolute basis to simply be made completely immune to the tough choices ahead. We'll have to agree to disagree.

2 Cents,

BTW I read a lot of your takes in the "bailout" discussions and agreed with them almost down the line. I'm a business owner like yourself (I think you are at least) and it was nice to see someone else who had the guts to take a dissenting, minority position on the issue backed by sound judgement, logical reasoning, and display a thorough understanding of the crisis and it's true implications, both direct and indirect.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

3. Commit to government's gradual exit from the free-market place.

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Please elaborate. Not if it means what comes to mind. The Free Market is key to how the USA became the most powerful nation.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

4. Commit to Immigration Reform. Two year path to citizenship for all current illegals with the clock starting ASAP. After two years deport. Secure the borders.

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No way.

The moment you announce such a policy, the border gets flooded. Even if such a plan is to be considered in the future, it needs to remain quiet until true border control exists.

2cents I'm disappointed in your change...the guys voting against this bill are the most honest men in congress...enacting the will of the people that put them in office is not politics....it's doing what they're supposed to do, whether you agree with it or not.

This bill is not going to solve the problem and if you think medicare is a spending problem just wait till everyone is on it.

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Originally Posted by whottt

2cents I'm disappointed in your change...the guys voting against this bill are the most honest men in congress...enacting the will of the people that put them in office is not politics....it's doing what they're supposed to do, whether you agree with it or not.

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I have to say what I believe is best for the country. Republicans played politics first and played honest nice guy second. Democrats are horrible, but I hold Republicans to a way higher standard.

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This bill is not going to solve the problem and if you think medicare is a spending problem just wait till everyone is on it.

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Vouchers for basic coverage and that's it. Prices will come down dramaticaly. The problem with health care is the cost of American Care. Market can no longer bear the cost.