Possible Problem with Palin's Tax Returns

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It does not appear that Gov. Palin reported as income the per diem reimbursement she received for travel, meals, and lodging expenses as governor of Alaska. Her 2007 W-2 reports $107,987 of income as governor, and the Washington Post pegs her governor's salary as $125,000. I blogged the tax issue raised by the per diem at:

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http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_b...-releases.html

I'm not sure how significant this will turn out to be but it strikes me as having potential.

Her lawyer has already released a statement.

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Unless employees have reason to know that the W-2 is incorrect, the IRS expects employees to rely on the employer's W-2 as prepared & filed with the IRS, as Governor Palin did. The income tax aspects of fringe benefits are complex and highly technical, and not subject to second-guessing by laymen. The State of Alaska is confident that its position is correct. Its employees were entitled to rely on that determination, So was Governor Palin.

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I'm no tax lawyer, but that strikes me as bullshit. In no way is W2 info considered to be final for tax returns, so it just doesn't seem to make much sense to me. That being said, I am far from educated on tax issues so the lawyer with the education in the matter may be right or he may be trying to cover Palin's ass. We'll see.

Leave poor middle-class Sarah alone!! Golly don't we all have so much on our minds that we can't worry about the arcane details of taxes and oh my gosh you know the upkeep on their vacation home and all that land costs a lot so anyway why are you looking to the past instead of saying what we should be doing which is looking to the future where that maverick Senator John McCain the POW hero is going to lead this great and glorious nation so that none of our children will have to hear their parents say they can remember a time when America was a great country.

What an odd statement.

I don't think the story has legs though. At worst she'll just pay some more.

I don't know CD. If it comes out she fucked that up, I can see a lot of spin on "how can we expect her to fix our nations finances if she can't correctly do her own" type of shit. I dunno, how much traction it would get, but we'll see.

It's really sad you've sunk to this level Manny. :depressed

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Originally Posted by whottt

It's really sad you've sunk to this level Manny. :depressed

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Post of the year

yeah, no shit. if i have never second guessed my w-2. who the fuck does that?

manny is the typical liberal democrat... an expert at everything.. taxes, weather, music...you name it... he knows every fucking thing... however he just knows about it and doesnt put anything to practice and actually make the world a better place about. he just likes to bitch about everything like he is 95 yrs old. i still remember the poor pizza delivery boy

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Originally Posted by Clandestino

manny is the typical liberal democrat... an expert at everything.. taxes, weather, music...you name it... he knows every fucking thing... however he just knows about it and doesnt put anything to practice and actually make the world a better place about. he just likes to bitch about everything like he is 95 yrs old. i still remember the poor pizza delivery boy

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You should learn to read. It will help you in life. I'll tip the next pizza guy with the 50 you're going to owe me on Nov 5.

this is a total non-story. the real tax return story is how does biden make $6million bucks and only have $150k to show for it?

Any of you right weeners speak up about Congresman Rangel's unpaid tax issues? Call for his resignation ? Or is this one of those it's ok for our side but not the other?

I see 2 different issues.

First, it is possible that her stated taxable income is actually correct. She could have certain deductions taken out of her pay on a pre-tax basis so that part could be right- that is, the salary as listed on form W-2 not being equal to $125,000.

The second part- I think- is her responsibility. If she is given a per diem in addition to her salary, I believe that she is responsibile for reporting it.

Then again it has been a while since I have dealt with tax issues.

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Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro

Any of you right weeners speak up about Congresman Rangel's unpaid tax issues? Call for his resignation ? Or is this one of those it's ok for our side but not the other?

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You're comparing a possible (probable) oversight that can be corrected, if actually true, through the payment of back taxes and penalties to Rangels crimes?

Besides, in Texas at least, per diem is either added to the paycheck (partial per diem for day trips) or is considered state (tax free) expenditures. I think the author and you guys are getting this mixed up with an expense account...which most state employees do not enjoy.

Manny said he was no tax expert and I'm no per diem expert, although I have some experience, but to compare this to Rangel's misdeeds is laughable.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

You're comparing a possible (probable) oversight that can be corrected, if actually true, through the payment of back taxes and penalties to Rangels crimes?

Besides, in Texas at least, per diem is either added to the paycheck (partial per diem for day trips) or is considered state (tax free) expenditures. I think the author and you guys are getting this mixed up with an expense account...which most state employees do not enjoy.

Manny said he was no tax expert and I'm no per diem expert, although I have some experience, but to compare this to Rangel's misdeeds is laughable.

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Oh ok. Probable oversight for the republican and crime for democrat.:rolleyes

I'm shocked the yoni has 2 different standards for both parties. Of course Rangel has already made amends for his oversite, I mean crime...

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Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro

Oh ok. Probable oversight for the republican and crime for democrat.:rolleyes

I'm shocked the yoni has 2 different standards for both parties. Of course Rangel has already made amends for his oversite, I mean crime...

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There's nothing ambiguous about the tax status of rental income. If you receive it, you should pay taxes on it.

State per diem, on the other hand, is rather nebulous.

And, I'm sure if Palin is discovered to have been remiss in her tax obligations, she'll pay up.

Of course that's not all about Rangel...

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Originally Posted by NYTimes

Mr. Rangel’s personal finances have been under scrutiny for months, and he has already asked the ethics committee to investigate two other matters.

In July, The New York Times disclosed that a prominent New York developer had allowed him to lease four rent-stabilized apartments at prices far below market value. He used one as a campaign office, which violated state requirements that rent-stabilized apartments be used solely as a primary residence. Mr. Rangel agreed to relinquish the campaign office, but he asserts that there is nothing improper about keeping the others, and points out that two of the units were combined by a previous tenant who had a wall removed.

While there is nothing illegal about landlords’ allowing a tenant to lease multiple rent-stabilized apartments, some government ethics experts say that the tens of thousands of dollars in rent savings Mr. Rangel got each year could be considered a gift and a violation of the $100 annual limit on gifts to House members.

He has also been criticized for using his official stationery to solicit donations for a new educational center at the City University of New York that will be named for him. The ethics committee is now examining whether that violated Congressional rules.

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The guy's a fucking criminal.

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Originally Posted by whottt

It's really sad you've sunk to this level Manny. :depressed

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:lmao :lmao :lmao

As I recall, the per diems are not included in your taxable income IF AND ONLY IF the employee provides a detailed expense account to the employer showing exactly how and where the per diem was spent and only on allowable expenses and with receipts. Given that she was home and not actually traveling when she took a bunch of these per diems, I highly doubt an appropriate expense report was filed.

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Originally Posted by 4cc

wtf?

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:lmao

I thought the same thing when I read that the first time, but after reading it a couple of times I Figure he's referring to Sarah.

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Originally Posted by ploto

As I recall, the per diems are not included in your taxable income IF AND ONLY IF the employee provides a detailed expense account to the employer showing exactly how and where the per diem was spent and only on allowable expenses and with receipts. Given that she was home and not actually traveling when she took a bunch of these per diems, I highly doubt an appropriate expense report was filed.

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Well in any case, its looking like if she did do something wrong here it was on a complex issue the public won't care about. Those claiming is a non story are more than likely right since the media has yet to say shit about it.

However, doesn't her church require her to give 10% in donations?

:stirpot:

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

this is a total non-story. the real tax return story is how does biden make $6million bucks and only have $150k to show for it?

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He ran for president twice. He still has loans from that to pay off.

gee, i wonder what the liberal stance on the rangel tax "misunderstanding" is.

Per diem is taxable income, as is the travel for her family to the Governers residence (over 43k charged last year).

She has not reported it....and anyone that has a decent income knows better.

Middle class Sarah is a tax cheat.......color me....NOT shocked.

DD

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Originally Posted by DaDakota

Per diem is taxable income, as is the travel for her family to the Governers residence (over 43k charged last year).

She has not reported it....and anyone that has a decent income knows better.

Middle class Sarah is a tax cheat.......color me....NOT shocked.

DD

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Per Diem is not taxable. It is often business expense that businesses get to write off. From wiki:

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When an employer reports an employee's earning at the end of the year on a W-2, per-diem is listed separate from taxable income, under 'Misc. non-taxable'.

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All his thread and story are, is another LAME attempt to discredit Palin. Grasping as straws. Shows there is no real dirt on her. I don't mind, keep it up, and the common voter will see just how pathetic liberal pundits are. Those of you involves are petty, and should be ashamed.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

Per Diem is not taxable. It is often business expense that businesses get to write off. From wiki:



All his thread and story are, is another LAME attempt to discredit Palin. Grasping as straws. Shows there is no real dirt on her. I don't mind, keep it up, and the common voter will see just how pathetic liberal pundits are. Those of you involves are petty, and should be ashamed.

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My thread is an attempt to discredit Palin? :lol

I didn't realize my threads had such influence. I figured it was just for our entertainment and discussion. You swallow that damn kool-aid hard man.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

He ran for president twice. He still has loans from that to pay off.

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he has loans? Or do you mean his campaign never repaid the loan he made to it?

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

Per Diem is not taxable. It is often business expense that businesses get to write off.

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IRS:

However, if an employer pays expense allowances that exceed the federal per diem rates, the excess amounts are subject to income tax and employment tax if they are not repaid to the employer, unless the employee actually substantiates all of the expenses covered by the per diem allowance.

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Originally Posted by 2centsworth

he has loans? Or do you mean his campaign never repaid the loan he made to it?

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He has loans and/or spend his own money. Most likely both.

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Originally Posted by ploto

IRS:

However, if an employer pays expense allowances that exceed the federal per diem rates, the excess amounts are subject to income tax and employment tax if they are not repaid to the employer, unless the employee actually substantiates all of the expenses covered by the per diem allowance.

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All that means is that the employee has to justify it.

Strike 2.

This story won't stick with americans because Palin is middle class. If she were rich then maybe.

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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy

This story won't stick with americans because Palin is middle class. If she were rich then maybe.

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Well, there's that and, the fact that it is entirely possible there's absolutely nothing wrong with her tax returns.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Well, there's that and, the fact that it is entirely possible there's absolutely nothing wrong with her tax returns.

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I think the issue that there's nothing wrong has been put to bed

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ack Bogdanski, There's No Debate: Palins Owe Thousands in Back Taxes:

There is no serious debate (at least, none that has been brought to our attention) about the fact that at least the amounts paid for the children's travel -- $24,728.83 in 2007, according to the Washington Post -- are taxable. The campaign's tax lawyer has got at least that much of the law, and perhaps more, wrong. ... The Palins, who had their tax returns done by HR Block, simply got it wrong. And the fact that the state payroll office got it wrong, too, doesn't erase the Palins' unpaid tax liability.

Bryan Camp, A Brief Analysis of Governor Palin's Tax Returns for 2006 and 2007:

The release of an opinion letter by attorney Roger M. Olsen dated September 30, 2008, has stirred up the pot once again about the accuracy of Sarah and Todd Palin’s 2006 and 2007 tax returns. Not only that, but Mr. Olsen’s letter raises a couple of new issues.
This paper focuses on five problems: three raised in the tax returns and two new ones raised by Mr. Olsen’s letter. Here’s a summary of the five problems and my conclusions, for those who want to cut to the chase. My analysis will follow.

1. The Palins did not report as income some $17,000 that Governor Palin’s employer (the State of Alaska) paid her as an “allowance” for her travel. Can they do that? Yes, most likely.
2. The Palins did not report as income some $43,000 that the State of Alaska paid the Governor as an “allowance” for her husband and children’s travel. Can they do that? No, most likely not.
3. The Palins deducted $9,000 on their 2007 return, claiming it was a loss from Mr. Palin’s snow machine racing activity. Can they do that? Most likely not, but more info could make the deduction o.k. If any of the above issues goes against the Palins they then risk getting hit with the section 6662 penalty for “negligence or disregard of rules or regulations.”
4. Can the Palins avoid the section 6662 negligence penalty by claiming that they reasonably relied either (a) on the W-2’s sent to them by their employer, which did not reflect either the $17,000 or the $43,000, or (b) on their tax return preparer H&R Block, or (c) on Mr. Olsen’s opinion letter dated September 30, 2008? The three reliance defenses are unlikely to succeed, but more info may make the (b) defense a good one.
5. Does Mr. Olsen have any exposure to sanctions by the IRS because of his letter? I believe Mr. Olsen’s letter probably violates 31 C.F.R. section 10.35. If so, he would be exposed to possible sanctions from the IRS Office of Professional Responsibility.

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http://taxprof.typepad.com/taxprof_blog/

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

All that means is that the employee has to justify it.

Strike 2.

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No, it does not. There are certain expenses that are not allowable. Period. If someone has a per diem and he uses part of it to pay for my airfare to go along on the trip, then that is taxable.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

I think the issue that there's nothing wrong has been put to bed

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Actually, it appears not. The attorney, who now faces a legal consequence himself, said there may be an affirmative defense to all of the issues raised.

I think it's a non-issue. If they owe back-taxes because of an oversight, either by them or their preparer or the state (who produced the w-2), they'll pay back taxes and penalties. I think HR Block has some kind of insurance or warranty on these type matters, no?

K

Oh shucks, I'm such maverick Washington outsider and hockey mom, I don't have time to figure out all these silly taxes correctly -- but I'll get right back to you on this, you betcha! *wink*

I'd say the material Manny quoted has the best chance of being correct. HR Block screws up all the time. I this type of case, unless the Palin's withheld something from HR Block, it is HR Blocks fault. The Palin's will still have to settle a tax debt, but there is still no indication of fraud.

Anyone have any good facts, or are you still just grasping at straws because of your own spite?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Oh shucks, I'm such maverick Washington outsider and hockey mom, I don't have time to figure out all these silly taxes correctly -- but I'll get right back to you on this, you betcha! *wink*

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This is not an authentic impersonation. There need to be far more "mavericks" in that statement.

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Originally Posted by Shastafarian

This is not an authentic impersonation. There need to be far more "mavericks" in that statement.

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cuban should sue the bitch. as it stands now, i'll have to mute the tv during any mavs game.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

I'd say the material Manny quoted has the best chance of being correct. HR Block screws up all the time. I this type of case, unless the Palin's withheld something from HR Block, it is HR Blocks fault. The Palin's will still have to settle a tax debt, but there is still no indication of fraud.

Anyone have any good facts, or are you still just grasping at straws because of your own spite?

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I heard someone say on the radio that she's in big trouble with the IRS and will do jail time.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I heard someone say on the radio that she's in big trouble with the IRS and will do jail time.

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Is Al Frankin still on the air?

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

Is Al Frankin still on the air?

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I can back up my radio claims as well as you can.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I can back up my radio claims as well as you can.

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I was just asking if Al Frankin was back on radio. It sound's like the type of rumor he would propagate. I guess it could be from Whoppi Goldberg, Randi Rhodes, or some other liberal pundit.

Maybe Thom Hartmann... Yes. Sounds like some slander he would say.

Who said it?

You really don't get sarcasm, do you?

Of course he does, he's in the 99.9999999999 percentile.

this is a non-story

Oh look, there's another.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Oh look, there's another.

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i caught it late

At least you caught it.

:lmao