Obama is a Socialist.

Printable View

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

10-09-2008
smeagol

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeChalupa

Fact is that republicans including McCain voted for the bail out too.

Fact is there is nothing wrong with voting for the bailout.
10-09-2008
fyatuk

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 101A

At least you mention the 10th ammendment...there's the rub, isn't it. If that wasn't used as toilet paper for the past 150 years; the discussion would be academic. That ammendment, alone, should have precluded the constant power grab that the federal govt. has been making ever since; and certainly would have made a Socialist, federal economy an academic discussion. If the founders wanted the Federal Govt. SO maleable, why did they include that? The consitution assumed a relatively weak govt. to help preside over the "United" States which had allied themselves. The Constitution did not allow for what has happened; it simply has been ignored.

Yep, Lincoln, an otherwise exemplary man, killed the 10th Amendment for all intents and purposes. I said earlier in this thread that I, personally, prefer minimalism in terms of strength of the federal government. I'm a State's Rights Social Democrat.

I've asked federal socialists to justify those programs and they usually resort to justifying them under the "promote the general welfare" of the Preamble. I keep telling them that doesn't classify since the 10th Amendment refers to enumerated powers which are listed within the actual Articles, and not the Preamble which is nothing more than a mission statement. I'm still waiting for quality reasons to allow them on the federal level, without requiring an Amendment to enumerate those powers for the federal government (which shouldn't be hard to pass since public opinion is pretty much on the side of many of the current socialist programs).
10-09-2008
ElNono

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hook Dem

Wrong! The democrats could have passed it on their own but didn't because Madam Pelosi gave those ,who were in election contest, permission to vote against it! Politics at it's best! They didn't want to pass it on their own because an election is coming up!

But it was the ultimate socialist bill! I mean, they're all socialist right? Which means that whoever puts them in office are all socialist too! Under your theory, they SHOULD have passed the bailout on their own, because it would have strengthened their position with his voters!

You're full of shit. That's the story here.
10-09-2008
101A

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fyatuk

Yep, Lincoln, an otherwise exemplary man, killed the 10th Amendment for all intents and purposes. I said earlier in this thread that I, personally, prefer minimalism in terms of strength of the federal government. I'm a State's Rights Social Democrat.

I've asked federal socialists to justify those programs and they usually resort to justifying them under the "promote the general welfare" of the Preamble. I keep telling them that doesn't classify since the 10th Amendment refers to enumerated powers which are listed within the actual Articles, and not the Preamble which is nothing more than a mission statement. I'm still waiting for quality reasons to allow them on the federal level, without requiring an Amendment to enumerate those powers for the federal government (which shouldn't be hard to pass since public opinion is pretty much on the side of many of the current socialist programs).

At some point, obviously, I got my wires crossed in my estimation of you.

I apologize.

Good post.

Oh, and, it would still be hard to pass, by design, it is very difficult to ammend the Constitution.
10-09-2008
Warlord23

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Oh, the irony. A Republican president makes several hundred billions of dollars available to bail out failed companies, and you guys are whining about the next likely president being socialist?

Understand this: capitalism has been gangraped in the last few weeks, and the US is now as socialist as they come. And this happened in a Republican administration. Yoni's diatribe is the equivalent of a Spur fan complaining about Pop becoming the Spurs' coach when the previous coach was Bob fucking Hill.
10-09-2008
fyatuk

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 101A

At some point, obviously, I got my wires crossed in my estimation of you.

I apologize.

Good post.

Oh, and, it would still be hard to pass, by design, it is very difficult to ammend the Constitution.

It's not really a problem. I'm a confusing person :hat I typically don't get along with conservatives because I'm socialist on lower levels and I don't get along with liberals because I'm fiscally conservative on the federal levels. Makes for fun arguments though.

I was saying that as far as Amendments go, it shouldn't be too hard. There's no much chance, for example, Social Security would fail to get the 2/3rds in both houses, and it's likely that at least 3/4 of the states legislatures (38/50) would ratify it. It's a difficult process, but Amendments to enumerate the necessary powers would have an easier time than say, the flag burning or gay marraige proposals would.

Now back when those programs were first starting is probably another story.
10-09-2008
Anti.Hero

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by timvp

Is there a democrat alive who hasn't been accused of being a socialist? Calling a democrat a socialist is cliche to the nth degree.

NOT THIS TIME. NOT THIS CANDIDATE.
10-09-2008
Anti.Hero

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Findog

Didn't McCain just propose buying up every single bad mortgage in the country?

Who's the socialist?

YES. Why do you think conservatives hate the fucking guy.

We see Obama, Congress, and a soon to be ACLU Supreme Court and know there is no republican worth a damn that can speak up enough to drill sense into you numbskulls.
10-09-2008
DarrinS

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

After McCain proposing his Homeownership Resurgence Plan, I'd say he's a socialist too.

We're fucked either way.
10-09-2008
DarrinS

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warlord23

Oh, the irony. A Republican president makes several hundred billions of dollars available to bail out failed companies, and you guys are whining about the next likely president being socialist?

Understand this: capitalism has been gangraped in the last few weeks, and the US is now as socialist as they come. And this happened in a Republican administration. Yoni's diatribe is the equivalent of a Spur fan complaining about Pop becoming the Spurs' coach when the previous coach was Bob fucking Hill.

Yes, under a Republican admin, but could not have been passed without the Democratic-controlled congress.

If con is the opposite of pro, what is the opposite of progress?
10-09-2008
Anti.Hero

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElNono

Excuse me? What party controls Congress right now? I thought it was the Democrats. We just had a major socialist bill in the 'bailout' there not 3 weeks ago. It wouldn't pass without Republican consent. Are you reading the news?

And I can't vote. Love being a spectator though!

Because it was a shit bill and they did not want to take 100% responsibility when it does damage. Shit, wake up.

and dis

Quote:

Wrong! The democrats could have passed it on their own but didn't because Madam Pelosi gave those ,who were in election contest, permission to vote against it! Politics at it's best! They didn't want to pass it on their own because an election is coming up!
10-09-2008
ElNono

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti.Hero

Because it was a shit bill and they did not want to take 100% responsibility when it does damage. Shit, wake up.

Exactly why they won't vote for every socialist bill that comes across their desk, wether it's Obama, Bush or anybody else...

MY POINT EXACTLY
10-09-2008
ChumpDumper

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by socialist party thingy

Candidates must be approved via a NP political committee. Once approved, candidates must sign a contract with the NP. The contract mandates that they must have a visible and active relationship with the NP.

Since this is the first anyone has heard of this, it's pretty clear no contract was fulfilled between the Obama and this party.

Throw another FAIL on the fire.
10-09-2008
George Gervin's Afro

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Obama pals around with terrorists and is a socialist? May God help us all..
10-09-2008
td4mvp21

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti.Hero

YES. Why do you think conservatives hate the fucking guy.

They hate him so much they nominated him as the GOP presidential candidate??
10-09-2008
Wild Cobra

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anti.Hero

YES. Why do you think conservatives hate the fucking guy.

We see Obama, Congress, and a soon to be ACLU Supreme Court and know there is no republican worth a damn that can speak up enough to drill sense into you numbskulls.

Agreed. We conservatives are now voting for Palin, or the lesser of two evils rather than votig for McCain.

I missed most of this thread, but 101 also makes great points about the structure of our government as implemented by our founding fathers.

They would be ashamed of this government today.
10-09-2008
Wild Cobra

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by td4mvp21

They hate him so much they nominated him as the GOP presidential candidate??

Conservatives didn't vote for McCain in the primaries.

Remember too, the early primaries were open primaries. The way I see it, the bigoted democrats that wouldn't vote for a black, or a woman, preferred the most liberal republican candidate. I am a firm believer that if the primaries were limited to within party lines, either Romney or Huckabee would be the republican nominee. At least mot McCain. He was never selected in past primaries when prominent white males ran in the democrat primaries.
10-09-2008
SnakeBoy

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Findog

Didn't McCain just propose buying up every single bad mortgage in the country?

Actually that's not his proposal. He wants to purchase the mortgages of people who were credit worthy, had down payments, but got caught up in the sub prime mess. Then restructure the loans under a fixed rate.

That's not buying up every bad loan.
10-10-2008
byrontx

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

National ownership of the interstate highways is socialist. You have a problem with that?

Socialist is a term, like boogey-bear, it depends on what you mean by it. Every society implements policies that are to some degree socialist, its called government. Right now is not a good time to be crowing about the wonders of unregulated free markets. If government for the rich and trinkle-down economics were so great Mexico would be an economic powerhouse but the inconvenient truth is that not so much trinkles down. Extreme capitalism like that advocated by the current crop of neo-cons would result in no environmental laws, no protections for the poor; well, I could go on and on but now that I have debtor prisons in mind, it would look very much like Dicken's English society in Oliver Twist. I think that is the Republican ideal.
10-10-2008
rascal

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ElNono

Not true. And is this savage neocon capitalism working? Have you read the news lately?

The best system is probably a mix of socialism and capitalism.

Greed kills complete capitalism.
10-10-2008
Kamnik

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

I FIND IT SOOOOO FUNNY when people speak of socialism like some evil.

A good measure of socialism is a good thing for a country.

Pure capitalism/democracy have so many faults it is saddening. Not saying other systems were any better....
10-10-2008
peewee's lovechild

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

This whole thread is stupid.

Yoni calling Obama a socialist is being very quiet about McCain's proposal to buy everyone a house. You can't get anymore socialist than that.

How are Yoni and his clan going to defend that?

I can just hear it, "He's being a true Maverick . . . reaching across the aisle" . . . it would be a pathetic attempt at backpeddling, but I'm expecting that.

The truth is, using Yoni's rationale, McCain is a SOCIALIST!!

I guess they're going to have to back up Bob Barr now.
10-10-2008
fyatuk

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by peewee's lovechild

This whole thread is stupid.

Yoni calling Obama a socialist is being very quiet about McCain's proposal to buy everyone a house. You can't get anymore socialist than that.

How are Yoni and his clan going to defend that?

I can just hear it, "He's being a true Maverick . . . reaching across the aisle" . . . it would be a pathetic attempt at backpeddling, but I'm expecting that.

The truth is, using Yoni's rationale, McCain is a SOCIALIST!!

I guess they're going to have to back up Bob Barr now.

Isn't McCain's proposal to buy and renengotiate mortgages of people who got screwed by the subprime crisis? While that certainly entails the government butting into the private market, it could hardly be classified as "buy everyone a house".

But no one in their right might ever considered McCain to be a true fiscal conservative (or social conservative either really), so a few socialist ideas aren't surprising. It's one of the reason the conservative base needed Palin (or some other heavily conservative person) on board to get motivated.
10-10-2008
peewee's lovechild

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fyatuk

Isn't McCain's proposal to buy and renengotiate mortgages of people who got screwed by the subprime crisis? While that certainly entails the government butting into the private market, it could hardly be classified as "buy everyone a house".

But no one in their right might ever considered McCain to be a true fiscal conservative (or social conservative either really), so a few socialist ideas aren't surprising. It's one of the reason the conservative base needed Palin (or some other heavily conservative person) on board to get motivated.

So, you're not considered a socialist if you only have "a few socialist ideas"?

No, no, no.

You can't have it both ways.
10-10-2008
fyatuk

Re: Obama is a Socialist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by peewee's lovechild

So, you're not considered a socialist if you only have "a few socialist ideas"?

No, no, no.

You can't have it both ways.

LOL. What the hell did that have to do with my post?

I never declared McCain not a socialist, I only said it wasn't unexpected.

You were asking how conservatives could stand McCain the socialist, and I answered (they already knew he was). Of course, he still less of a socialist than Obama, so he'd still be the fiscal conservatives choice of the two most likely (at least based on issue stances only and not taking into account relevant personal information like personality, etc).

Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page