Just a hypothetical, but who do you think would win?
Personally, I think Powell could have already been president.
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Just a hypothetical, but who do you think would win?
Personally, I think Powell could have already been president.
Obama Hussein Obama? What kind of lame palindrome is that?Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
sons his name is Muhammad Barack Hussein Obama. get it right
Racists think there is great significance to Barack Obama's middle name. That's why they mention it as much as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
They think it's such a mark of shame. Well fuck them. I am a proud supporter of Barack HUSSEIN Obama.
Powell wants no part of being president, and has said so many times. I guess he got sick of politics after the way Bush and especially Cheney and Rumsfeld shit all over him with their failed execution of this war.
I wonder if he endorses Obama. There's been rumors that he would.
Powell compromised himself and tainted his career by lying in the shit and slop with dubya's WH. he wasn't enough of fighter to be counterweight against rummy, dickhead, Feith, and assorted neo-c*nds polluting the WH and Pentagon and NSA.
I don't see how he couldn't when McCain supports Bush's execution of the war.Quote:
Originally Posted by Findog
Privately there's no way he could support McCain over Obama, but Powell is also a coward and a pussy. He was the moderating influence against the rush to war inside the White House but he dutifully went before the UN and gave that bogus presentation.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
I think you might be judging him a little harshly. If you wanna know a lot about what he did/didn't do read Woodward's new book.Quote:
Originally Posted by Findog
His wife asked him not to prior to 1996, so he did have aspirations at one time. Woodward wrote that she threatened to leave him.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
i regained much respect for colin when he admitted that "the evidence used for going to war was deliberately misleading".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
I screwed it up. Can't edit it after you post. Oh well.
I know. I'm just joshin' around with ya.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
Powell would even beat Sarah Palin.
Counterweight? Bush and Cheney put no stock in what this guy had to say because they were so gung-ho on Rumsfeld and that crook Chalabi who gave grand promises about a Democratic Iraq.Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_
According to Axelrod. Obama has a name. Not "that one", but a name.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
If you have somehow managed to fit 'Alberto Gonzales' in your post above, you would have mentioned all the names of the worst people this administration has had in just one sentence. Impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
I dunno, I would've wanted Hadley in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
it's racists to point out someone's name? gee. i'm glad i don't watch any more jean claude van damme moviesQuote:
Originally Posted by Findog
:rolleyes
I think Powell has publicly acknowledged that he was misled prior to giving that UN speech. He's actually rather pissed off about. He was very loyal to Bush Sr. and I think he feels fucked over by the current admin.
That being said, I still haven't read any good points on a hypothetical Powell vs. Obama. Powell is an extremely smart and well-liked man. BUT, he's a conservative. It's too bad his reputation was sullied by that UN speech and that he never has aspirations to the highest office. I'd vote for him in a heartbeat.
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Originally Posted by Viva Las Espuelas
I hate those fuckin Belgian's. Always trying to pawn off their waffles on everyone.
The only reason Powell gave that speech was because he was the only member of the administration that had any kind of respect outside of it. Could anyone here imagine Cheney trying to spin that bullshit intelligence at the UN?
I agree that Powell was a pussy for sucking up to Bush and trying to make the case after the way Bush held him in such disregard in the entire planning phase.
I think really, more than Powell, what you're asking is what conservative would have more 'pull' to win an election when you have Bush as the backdrop and this economic crisis going on. I don't think there's such a figure right now. But I'll keep thinking. Maybe somebody would pop out.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
Specifically about Powell, I think he would be torched on economic issues.
How many times is he referred to as "John Sydney McCain"? How many times do we see her referred to as "Sarah Louise Heath Palin?" Or "Joseph Robinette Biden?" Until we do, you can shut the fuck up with this disingenuous "Oh, it's just his middle name, we don't mean anything by it by always typing it out" bullshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viva Las Espuelas
To answer the original question, Obama/Powell would be a Nixon/McGovern landslide. Powell wouldn't get the evangelical vote because he's black. He wouldn't get the independent vote because of his presentation to the UN. He wouldn't get the left vote because Obama has that clearly locked up.
if it's their name they can use it. so what. you're pretty defensive about it. in no way shape or form is that racist. get off that band wagon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Findog
If Powell had ANY interest in becoming President, he definitely would have it...no matter who he went up against.
And if he went up against Obama, it would be a Powell landslide.
Why isn't this thread titled "Colin Luther Powell vs Barack Hussein Obama"Quote:
Originally Posted by Viva Las Espuelas
DarrinS may or may not be a racist, but it's obvious what he's doing in omitting Powell's middle name but referencing Obama's.
I just want a conservative to tell me what is the special significance of Obama's middle name. I just wish they would come right out and say that Obama is an Unamerican Terrorist Sympathizer instead of skirting around it. Have some fucking balls and man up and own up to that stance instead of implying and inferring.
I'd be shocked if Powell could pull a single state against Obama.
:huhQuote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
Powell would still own anybody in a presidential election. I hope whoever wins brings him back to State.
How much more clear do you want me to make it? Racist southern bible beaters won't vote for a black man.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFanFirst
Yeah but if the choice is between Powell or a Hussein-middle-named Terrorist Muslim black man whose middle name is Hussein....you gotta think they go with the non-Hussein non-terrorist non-Muslim without Hussein in their name.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
I think most of those evangelical voters stay home November 4th if they have to choose between two black men.Quote:
Originally Posted by monosylab1k
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Originally Posted by Findog
Barack is proud of his name. That's why he wanted people to start calling him Barack instead of his nickname, Barry. I don't see why you're so touchy about it.
That's about like saying all black people are voting for Obama because he's black. No?Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
EDIT> Just saw that you had the word "racist" in your post. Do you think ALL people of faith who reside in southern states are racist? A majority of them?
well i guess it could. it might calm you downQuote:
Originally Posted by Findog
i still don't see why you are accusing someone of being a racists that simply say/mentions/points out someone's middle name. for pete's sake's the dude he's referring to is half white.Quote:
Originally Posted by Findog
he came out and made a big speech addressing "rev" wright. i'll wait 'til he does one for ayers and alll of the other questionable associates that he dismisses or sends a litigation team to quiet down and we'll go from there. agreed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Findog
yeah true. if anything, David Duke would get a lot of write in votes.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
I was raised in the Southern Baptist church, and I can't think of one person that feels the way you just described.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
What does being proud of his first name have to do with his middle name?Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
How come you titled this thread "Colin Powell vs Obama (sic) Hussein Obama" instead of "Colin Luther Powell vs Barack Hussein Obama?"
Why was Barack's middle name significant but Powell's was not? Do you type out "John Sydney McCain?" Do you type out "Sarah Louise Heath Palin?" Do you type out "Joseph Robinette Biden?"
What is the significance of always typing out Obama's middle name? What are you implying? What are you inferring? Do you believe he is an Unamerican terrorist sympathizer?
I'm not touchy, I'm going to call people out on being small when I see it. If you don't like it, maybe you should be consistent in how you refer to candidates, lest we get the wrong idea and put you in the same group as BRHornets45.
I really don't care for Obama, but cutesy little "I don't know what you're talking about, isn't that his name?" excuses like this are fucking lame. You put Hussein in there for a reason, so just admit it and move on, it's a total pussy move to throw it out there and then hide behind some lame ass excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
Enough of a proportion to keep from being able to rally the evangelical vote the way Bush did (the only reason he won in 2004). A lot of people would convince themselves they're not racist but then find a way to rationalize not voting for a black man, just like they will this November 4th.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
You are completely off base.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
Sure, there are racist people out there, but they don't speak for everyone else...and they certainly don't speak for the majority of religious people.
You need to stop generalizing like that.
I think Powell would win if he went up against...name a white man from the Dem. party...I'll say Evan Bayh since his name popped in my head first. Good looking, charismatic, smart, etc...
I would still say Powell wins.
Yep, it's a total bitch pussy move. Man up and say he's too liberal, or not patriotic enough, or sympathizes with anti-American radicals.Quote:
Originally Posted by monosylab1k
Yeah, racism isn't hugely evident in this campaign with the Hussein talk and the 'he's not like us' garbage coming from the right. Bull-shit. Powell would have no chance against Obama and would decidedly lose to even Clinton.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFanFirst
Quote:
Originally Posted by monosylab1k
I just do it to fuck with people who are touchy about it. BFD.
Even Sara Silverman says "Yes, Barack Hussein Obama -- it's a super fucking shitty name". And she's a supporter.
again, how is referring to his middle name as being racists? i don't see that. if He had white skin and people brought up his middle name would you still be calling them a racist?Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
isn't that what the left basically says about the right? don't enemies normally have that mindset?Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
you said it.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
Just speaking of this website, I'd say only a few people are mentioning "Hussein" when talking about Obama....but they're also the ones throwing around silly nicknames for other people and groups.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
It's annoying, but it doesn't make someone racist.
I was also going to mention Clinton in my last message...and sure, he might not win against her, but that's not because of his race.
You would have the wife of one of the most popular Presidents ever running...and not only would she be President, but he'd be back in the White House, and he'd definitely have her ear. People know that and would respond favorably to that.
Good grief. It'd be a woman against a black man. Either way, a "minority" would win the job...and you still want to make this about race.
Give me a break.
then say that the first time and move on, don't give those stupid pussy excuses of "oh isn't that his middle name? i'm just saying his middle name, that's all". we really are a nation of 6 year olds.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
Quote:
Originally Posted by monosylab1k
To the extent that this thread has turned into a discussion of his name, instead of Powell vs. Obama, I wish I wouldn't have put it in this title.
Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
I seriously doubt that. Hillary is not a well-liked person. And she comes off as a little bitchy on TV, IMO.
They (the posters you are trying to persuade) are bigots, don't even try.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFanFirst
Powell could beat any other American I can think of in a Presidential election.
Maybe 10 years ago when he could appeal to independents and some of the left to make up for not being able to rally the conservative base, but that presentation to the UN ensured he would get almost none of the first two groups' support. Powell made the case for going to war, and no one will ever forget that.Quote:
Originally Posted by 101A
It's not racist against black people, it's racist against Arabs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viva Las Espuelas
And the term "racist" when used as an adjective is not plural, so you should quit putting an "s" on the end when it doesn't belong. Thanks.
i still don't see how referring to someone's middle name as being racist, no "s".Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurminator
does that make boutons a racist? "dubya"
Imagine that whottt conundrum.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
The true test there would not be whether white evangelicals will or won't vote for a black liberal, since most of them won't vote for a white liberal either. The true test would be whether they would vote for a black conservative. Powell is no conservative.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
I do think there is a percentage for whom it makes a real difference, but quantifying that is hard. All I can offer are anecdotes of individuals saying, "America isn't ready for a black President," or saying things like, "I'm focusing on how Biden will run the country, because that black guy won't last a week before he gets taken out." I don't remember anybody at my church talking about murdering John Kerry.
I can't wait to see what the Bradley Effect is going to be like on this election. I wonder if it will be shifted ahead a few days in the polls since people are now more aware of it after the media has started discussing it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Extra Stout
Man this is a good question!
First off, anyone who wants to know the true character of Powell should read Woodward's books. They are excellent and they point out exactly how Powell was basically the only voice of calm in an administration that wanted to go after Iraq from day one.
I think Powell would win. But man, I'm not sure. Powell always appealed to me because he doesn't want the power. Those are usually the kind of people that can actually lead very well.
I don't know though. That's a really interesting hypothetical.
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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Are you being serious? I never can tell with you.
Quite serious.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
I think he's done. I don't think he'll serve if asked.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Probably not, but it couldn't hurt to ask. He might take the opportunity to rehab the country's foreign relations.
I don't expect him to endorse anyone, but I wonder what he would have done if the race had been closer.
Powell is one of the most bad azz Americans of the last twenty years. That said, if I'm going to knock McCain for being too old, Powell's gotta be just about the same age so I'd have to hold that against him. 2008 Powell versus 2008 Obama, it'd be tougher but I'd probably side with Obama for much of the same reasons why I'll likely vote for Obama over McCain.
1996 or 2000 Powell would be a different story.
Yeah, I didn't realize he was 71.
Consultant or special envoy would be the most that could be hoped for these days.
Holy shit, Powell is 71? He sure doesn't look it at all. I thought he was in his late 50s - early 60s.
Powell before Iraq would have been one of the best candidates in history at getting independent voters. Now however, he'd have no chance because he tried to cover Bush's ass.
I had no idea he was that old. Wow.
I am not going to go there about whether Southern Baptists would vote for an African American or not but I too was raised as a Southern Baptist and I do know the Evangelical vote within the GOP is why John McCain ended up being the nominee rather than Mitt Romney.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFanFirst
Also, I think Powell is pro-choice which would also cause him problems with the Dobson types. Heck, McCain is pro-life and Dobson still doesn't like him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Back then, Powell would wipe the floor with Obama. Today, I think his rep is too scarred from any involvement with Bush Jr.
It's a damn shame, because that man was loved across the board.
I think I'm just jealous because the freakin Dems are going to have the first black president and it could've been the GOP. FUUUUUUUCK!!!!
I swear I hate GWB..
:lmao So...if we don't vote for Obama, it's because he's black? Interesting.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
There's no doubt Powell is a great military mind. But I'm not sure he would wipe the floor with anyone. We really have no idea is he has any grasp on the economy. This isn't the 1950s when a popular general can just win the presidency on heroism alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
Why does everyone assume Mr. Obama is an expert on the economy? Does he have a degree in economics?
Powell fucked up because he hung out with Bush for a little too long. He quit too late. He will always be remembered as the idiot who claimed there are WMD in Iraq. His career is done.
what could he really say to Obama. Sad, he is probably scared to even go out of his house
You're a fucking dumbass. This is an established factor in elections when there is a black candidate. I fucking hate how racism is some kind of taboo that people always want to sweep under the rug. If you honestly think there aren't going to be people voting against Obama specifically because he's black, I'd like to buy a plane ticket to travel to your fairytale world.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFanFirst
And I hate how there are people like you always trying to make an issue black vs. white.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
Do you think EVERYONE is out to get you? There's a word for that...paranoia.
How am I trying to make every issue black vs. white? I'm pointing out there is a lot of closet racism in this country, which is undeniable unless you're living in some fantasy land.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFanFirst
Given the tenor of this election, I'm literally gobsmacked that this could be shocking to anyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
No one denies that racism is out there.
But there will always be someone who is racist...that doesn't mean you can generalize the way you have - Powell wouldn't get the evangelical vote because he's black. or Racist southern bible beaters won't vote for a black man. or I think most of those evangelical voters stay home November 4th if they have to choose between two black men.
Believe it or not, not every white person who votes for someone other than Obama is racist. Not every Southern Baptist is racist.
You've got your head buried in the sand if you think none of the attacks on Obama from the religious right are racially motivated. Being black is a huge strike against a candidate in an election like this, and look at the map and tell me whether or not it's the Jim Crow states that are consistently the most red. A black man like Powell would never motivate the conservative base as it stands right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFanFirst
I'm so tired of people playing the victim because of the color of their skin, their gender, their age, etc.
Your assumptions that someone won't vote for Obama simply because he's black is as asinine as assuming all black people will vote for Obama because he is black.
For the record, the man is half white....but I'm sure you know that.
Are you serious? Are you saying his skin color has absolutely no bearing on whether people will vote for him? You can't possibly believe this. You're just trying to be like Whottt, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFanFirst
What's the reason for not voting for him if the person voting is black? Is it still racism?Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
Recognizing that race is still an important issue in this country is not the same thing as "playing the victim."Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFanFirst
Congrats on the Whottt-level response, SFF.
So....no response?Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
Seriously...
There are lots of black people out there not voting for Obama. What's the reason? Are they secretly racist? Do they not want to see another black rise to power?
It's absolutely ridiculous the way the right seems to believe this is a nation that has eradicated racism. It's no stretch of the imagination to conjecture that mostly-white voters of a mostly-white party that likes to consistently blame a lot of the country's problems on minorities would not support a black man. It's common sense.
Logic this flawed literally hurts my brain.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFanFirst
Stating that race will be considered by some voters isn't even remotely close to stating that racism is the only reason people won't vote for Obama. Those two assertions are miles apart. To deny that there are many different reasons people won't be voting for Obama would be ignorant, but to deny that race is, for some voters, one of those reasons is equally so.
Do you really believe racism is not a reason some people will vote against Obama?
Yeah, arguments like that are proof our math education in this country is bullshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by CuckingFunt
Fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
I think it's a perfectly legitimate question.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
Are you just going to avoid answering it?
And I have not said there isn't racism in this country. Guess what? There always will be.
And there will always be men in the workplace who feel like women don't belong.
So what?
A few bad apples...
you know the rest.
Math especially. In a rigorous math class someone learns how to construct valid arguments that can lead to conclusions based only on the soundness of their principles.Quote:
Originally Posted by CuckingFunt
Sure...there will be some who won't vote for him based on his skin color.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
But BB made generalizations earlier about "the southern baptists" and "evangelicals," etc...
No, a black person who votes against a black person is not necessarily racist. This statement means shit unless you're trying to argue that I'm saying any white person who votes against a black man is racist. Now answer my fucking question.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFanFirst
The "few bad apples" idea doesn't work when racism in this country is systemic, and not just individual.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFanFirst
What was your question?Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
Well I would wager the instances of racism showing up at the polls would be concentrated in the south where those religions dominate.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFanFirst