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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
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Originally Posted by
101A
How many Johns do you know that have had trouble picking up a hooker?
It's not the availability. It's the game of roulette. Everyone speeds, but sometimes you get a ticket. That ticket shouldn't cost you a criminal conviction.
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
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Originally Posted by
MaryAnnKilledGinger
Again, we don't disagree. And I understand he's an extreme case. But his crimes are the theft and violence, not his medical condition. I just don't believe you can criminalize addiction in and of itself. I do believe that people who produce deliberately harmful substances have something to answer for. If there are laws to be made, they should focus on the people profiting from the despair of addicts and their families.
That said, this battle cannot be won through law alone. Truth and education are the only way to drive down the demand for the substance and prevent new users. And medical advances toward helping addicts needs to be the focus of more research. Unfortunately, funding for prisons is more popular than medical research to help the inflicted.
There are also cheap restaurants.
I don't disagree with much here; although anything THAT damaging to one's life ought not be legal. My b-i-l was 15 when he got hooked; not old enough to be tried as an adult for a crime, but addiction knows no age; he fucked up his life before it got started. A substance like that simply cannot be legalized, taxed, and have the stamp of approval from society.
The point on cheap strip clubs was refuting the point that prostitution pays well -
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
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Originally Posted by
101A
How many Johns do you know that have had trouble picking up a hooker?
Not just Tijuana, dude, cops look the other way pretty much EVERYWHERE.
In Vegas, where it is open and legal, a guy handed my 13 year old son an "advertisement" card right on the street as we, as a family, walked in front of the Aladdin.
Leave it there, IMO.
If you legalize prostitution, you could regulate it and force weekly STD testing as so many places that decriminalize prostitution do with their sex workers. They could legally organize and demand better working conditions such as the use of condoms and protection from the police.
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
btw.
I think if we lowered the drinking age to 16, legalized Marijuana and some other party drugs - we'd have more $$$ left over to combat the real problems, both at the supply, and at the demand (through, as you suggest education and rehabilitation) side.
You're right. Jails don't work.
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
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Originally Posted by
baseline bum
If you legalize prostitution, you could regulate it and force weekly STD testing as so many places that decriminalize prostitution do with their sex workers. They could legally organize and demand better working conditions such as the use of condoms and protection from the police.
I've got enough libertarian sensibilities that this sounds O.K. to me (but I've got a bible-belt upbringing - and a father's sensibility that is struggling with it).
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
I think drugs are too easy to blame, and are too much of a scapegoat in today's society. I think this country goes too far with the AA idea that people are powerless in the face of them. I've had a few close friends get into major problems with cocaine, but it was their choice. They are the same people who found plenty of other ways to screw their lives up before cocaine too. I've also had many friends who used coke recreationally and were fine.
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
BTW, I'm sorry to hear about your brother in law.
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
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Originally Posted by
101A
I don't disagree with much here; although anything THAT damaging to one's life ought not be legal. My b-i-l was 15 when he got hooked; not old enough to be tried as an adult for a crime, but addiction knows no age; he fucked up his life before it got started. A substance like that simply cannot be legalized, taxed, and have the stamp of approval from society.
I think there's a difference between legalizing it and not criminalizing addicts. My feelings on legalizing hardcore substances like crack are still murky. If it's going to be illegal, I just want the focus to be on pressuring producers and distributors rather than people with a medical condition. I don't think we disagree. I know you seem to think it would be easier if you could just lock your brother in law up for the obvious, but surely you can see how dangerous that is on the larger scale. It sounds like he's well on his way to a life inside anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
101A
The point on cheap strip clubs was refuting the point that prostitution pays well -
I took your point. Mine was that, like any legal industry, making a living in that profession varies on the skills and quality of the individual. That said, even girls at cheap strip clubs make a better living than their friends at dominoes pizza. Moreover, regulating the industry so that it isn't as lucrative for just anyone that engages in it will help make sure it isn't a rash decission for those who have better employment opportunities. Right now a bad prostitute can still make a better living than a good receptionist.
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
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Originally Posted by
baseline bum
I think drugs are too easy to blame, and are too much of a scapegoat in today's society. I think this country goes too far with the AA idea that people are powerless in the face of them. I've had a few close friends get into major problems with cocaine, but it was their choice. They are the same people who found plenty of other ways to screw their lives up before cocaine too. I've also had many friends who used coke recreationally and were fine.
Can you imagine what would happen to the economies of certain Asian and South American countries if American Corporate farms could legally grow coca and Marijuana?
THAT would be something to watch. Not changing my stance, but picturing vast acres of.....well, you get the picture.
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
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Originally Posted by
MaryAnnKilledGinger
I think there's a difference between legalizing it and not criminalizing addicts. My feelings on legalizing hardcore substances like crack are still murky. If it's going to be illegal, I just want the focus to be on pressuring producers and distributors rather than people with a medical condition. I don't think we disagree. I know you seem to think it would be easier if you could just lock your brother in law up for the obvious, but surely you can see how dangerous that is on the larger scale. It sounds like he's well on his way to a life inside anyway.
You cannot legislate morality; it has never and will never work in this country. The war on drugs is a huge waste of tax dollars, and does little but drive up the cost of cocaine.
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
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Originally Posted by
baseline bum
You cannot legislate morality; it has never and will never work in this country. The war on drugs is a huge waste of tax dollars, and does little but drive up the cost of cocaine.
I'm not talking about legislating morality. I am talking about legislation of controlled and harmful substances - something that our government does and it obligated on some level to do. The problem is that all recreational drugs tend to be labeled harmful with a broad brush instead of being considered individually on their own merits. Pot and crack are not the same, just like morphine and aspirin aren't the same.
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MaryAnnKilledGinger
I think there's a difference between legalizing it and not criminalizing addicts. My feelings on legalizing hardcore substances like crack are still murky. If it's going to be illegal, I just want the focus to be on pressuring producers and distributors rather than people with a medical condition. I don't think we disagree. I know you seem to think it would be easier if you could just lock your brother in law up for the obvious, but surely you can see how dangerous that is on the larger scale. It sounds like he's well on his way to a life inside anyway.
He'll never be inside again. Like I said, he's on dialysis now (has to be hooked up to a machine to clean his blood 4 hours, three times a week). They WON'T lock him up. He still steals, writes hot checks, etc....but doesn't go to jail. He was never locked up for possession, and he was caught many times, before his medical condition was an issue, with crack. Cops would just throw it out - and send him on his way.
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I took your point. Mine was that, like any legal industry, making a living in that profession varies on the skills and quality of the individual.
O.K., now you've got me. As any man my age, I watched Gilligan's Island after school, and, well, that sentence was a little too much coming from you.
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
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Originally Posted by
101A
O.K., now you've got me. As any man my age, I watched Gilligan's Island after school, and, well, that sentence was a little too much coming from you.
:rollin :toast
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
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Originally Posted by
baseline bum
Are you telling me strip clubs are going to magically become cheap then?
that would stimulate the economy :toast
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
Another positive effect of legalizing drugs would be that it would be harder for minors to obtain them. As a teenager, it was far easier for me to get weed, coke, or acid than it was to buy beer, as no dealer ever checked that you were 21. I don't think you're going to have a big epidemic of people 21 and up buying crack for their little brothers and sisters either.
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
I don't think this will solve problems on Craigslist or any other ad space for the simple reason that codewords will be used instead. If not escort services or massage therapy, it will be something else.
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
I find it interesting that when a law is passed or something like what is being proposed is done, there are those who think it is good, and those that think it is bad (it is bad). Those that that disagree with those that think it is bad start bringing up almost absurd senarios to try to prove their point that have very little ot nothing to do with what is going on.
So if they eliminate this part of craigslist, do they really think it will help and someone just won't start up something else? Why single out craiglist.
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MaryAnnKilledGinger
I'm not talking about legislating morality. I am talking about legislation of controlled and harmful substances - something that our government does and it obligated on some level to do. The problem is that all recreational drugs tend to be labeled harmful with a broad brush instead of being considered individually on their own merits. Pot and crack are not the same, just like morphine and aspirin aren't the same.
Cocaine can be a recreational drug. The government's doing a piss-poor job of regulating harmful substances when nicotine is readily available and rubbing alcohol is polluted with methyl so that it can kill people who drink it. Seriously, nicotine is one of the most toxic substances known to man. For anyone interested in mass suicide, drop a cigar in a cup of water and then share the cup with friends.
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
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Originally Posted by
baseline bum
Cocaine can be a recreational drug. The government's doing a piss-poor job of regulating harmful substances when nicotine is readily available and rubbing alcohol is polluted with methyl so that it can kill people who drink it. Seriously, nicotine is one of the most toxic substances known to man. For anyone interested in mass suicide, drop a cigar in a cup of water and then share the cup with friends.
Crack != Nicotine
Seriously.
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
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Originally Posted by
baseline bum
Cocaine can be a recreational drug.
Crack cocaine and regular cocaine are two completely different animals. I don't think you can be a recreational crack user. I have never known one and I can't think of anyone that does. You are either on the pipe or recovering from being on the pipe. Other forms of cocaine just don't compare.
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Originally Posted by
baseline bum
The government's doing a piss-poor job of regulating harmful substances
We do not disagree.
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
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The government's doing a piss-poor job of regulating harmful substances
Name one thing the government does a good job doing?
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
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Originally Posted by
101A
Name one thing the government does a good job doing?
Spending money on unneccessary things like unneccessary wars.
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
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Originally Posted by
cherylsteele
Spending money on unneccessary things like unneccessary wars.
That's one.
Got any others?
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MaryAnnKilledGinger
Crack cocaine and regular cocaine are two completely different animals. I don't think you can be a recreational crack user. I have never known one and I can't think of anyone that does. You are either on the pipe or recovering from being on the pipe. Other forms of cocaine just don't compare.
You can't have one without the other. Crack is insanely easy to make from cocaine.
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Re: 40 States Pave Way For Next-Generation Craigslist
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Originally Posted by
baseline bum
You can't have one without the other. Crack is insanely easy to make from cocaine.
Point taken. But just because a needle is difficult to thread doesn't mean you stop sewing. Law is all about definition and distinction.