Yes, by a 7 year old to ensure they are not charged.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
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Yes, by a 7 year old to ensure they are not charged.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Then why have an adult child designation to begin with? It doesn't make any sense because the designation is in place because children inherently are not adult do not display the same judgement as adults and are not held to the same starndards adults are held to.Quote:
Originally Posted by I. Hustle
An incident where a child may or may not have committed a crime does not show that such a child is capable of making decisions on the level of an adult so why are they in turn are they stripped of protections that are there for that very reason? It makes no sense.
Not all acts are an "obvious lack of judgement", IMO. Some kids, granted not 8, but 14 and up know damn well what they are doing is wrong and therefore not a lack of judgement but an intentional act of harm.Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
An intentional act of harm is a lack of judgement.
If you're saying that kids are ok to be tried at 14 for murder, then you should also, I feel, think that they are perfectly capable of joining the military at such an age too.
Columbine? Were those just kids with bad judgement, or homicidal maniacs who planned and executed other students while in school?Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
The point is, there are exceptions. An 8 year old is NOT the exception, so dont think I am arguing on behalf of convicting an 8 year old as an adult.
But 13? 14? 15? Kidnap/rape/torture/murder?
No, their age IMO does not excuse their intent.
Are you guys just choosing to read part of my posts and ignoring the rest? My main point is that along with the investigation this child needs to be evaluated. This kid COULD suffer from some type of mental illness and need to be institutionalized or he could have just been tired of being abused. Being tried as an adult doesn't mean that he is going to be thrown in the state penitentiary.Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
Y'all are letting his age blind you. You are either saying no no no he just a baby and they should let him be free or he killed people and needs to fry.
Disagree. Couldnt disgaree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by LnGrrrR
Mental illness maybe. Definately should be evaluated. Tried as an adult...no way no matter how fucked up he is he's still only 8.
Knowing right from wrong still wouldn't convince me that he was developed enough to make rational decisions.
I tell my 3 year old.
You know not to hit your sister right? You know its wrong.
Yes dad I know its wrong to do it.
Just because he knows right from wrong doesn't mean he's mentally developed enough to execute proper decision making. I can see where some teens who perform premeditated acts of violence might be tried as adults but 8 is just absurd. This world is fucking out of control. Prison time for porn and 8 year olds being tried as adults. Fucking sad the state of affairs we live in.
It's those damn video games....
:lmao I've been playing Gears of War and the boy plops down next to me every night.Quote:
Originally Posted by Heath Ledger
Shoot them dad Shoot the monsters.
My wife is like "uh should he be watching that" :as I'm chainsawing through a bad guy:
yeah probably not but I can promise you I'm not turning it off.
An intentional lack of judgment which shows a disregard for the consequences.Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
Well hell, then who is to say that any age is mentally developed enough to execute proper decision making? If that were the case we'd have no crime at all because as adults, we should all be developed enough to make proper decision making and that is simply not the case.Quote:
Originally Posted by BacktoBasics
ANY time one commits a crime you can say it was "A lack of judgment".
No shit? Thats my point Joe. Why should such an act be a sign that someone has the judgment capabilities of an adult?Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeChalupa
Oh I don't know, the people who study human development maybe? We have legal ages set already, 18 and 21. Why not stick to them?Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeChalupa
Ok? I don't know what I ever said that was contradictory to the child being evaluated. There just is simply no circumstance under which an 8 year old child should fit any legal definition of adulthood whether he has a mental illness or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by I. Hustle
I don't get where trying someone as a child because they are not an adult yet is excusing their intent. You do understand that trying children as adults is put into place in order to achieve stronger penalties and does not mean they get to run free.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkReign
It makes absolutely no sense to have a set of protections for children in legal cases and then remove them when there is public or political pressure to do so.
Those of you in favor of trying children as adults, can you explain to me the justification for not trying everyone as an adult? Why is there a system in place to view children differently than adults?
Joe
biology and science have told us that a normal adult reaches functioning adulthood around the age of 18. Some obviously mature at different rates but a normal human develops enough to rationally and logically determine right from wrong in the mid teen years. Although humans learn basic right from wrong at an early age the brain is typically not developed enough to function at a full adult capacity. That capacity develops around the mid teen years.
How or why they determine legality at 18 probably has more to do with people being more functional post HS than anything. Which happens around 18. That isn't an exact biological science but more of a product of society. This is why they sometimes try 14,15,17 year olds like adults. They attempt and I say attempt to determine how physically and biologically the teen has developed which helps determine how responsible they should be for their actions. A lot of it boils down to the crime being premeditated. Which shows the ability to plan and execute actions while full well knowing the consequences. That development is said to reach its maturity in the mid teen years. Usually before the body reaches the age of 18.
Actually for men you really don't finish until around 25. Women happen a bit earlier but they're closer to 20-22.
I'm too lazy to find links right now, but yeah.
I also got the impression that the police wanted to try him as an adult in order to get a more lenient sentence, perhaps self defense statutes are more protective in Arizona for adults? Hmmm..i'll do some research
Why? What makes the decision to kill someone different from the decision to join the military? Why does one take more maturity than the other?Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkReign
I've heard this mentioned a few times and it could very well be the case of the police actually trying to look out for the child and I leave that possibility open but I do feel it is less likely than some overzealous DA trying to make a name for himself.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinsontoDuncan
The only explanation I can see to certify this kid is to carry out a sentence that goes past his 18th birthday.Quote:
Originally Posted by MannyIsGod
Arizona's laws with regard to juvenile crime appear to be different from Texas. In Texas, we have a determinate sentencing option for juveniles that allows a judge to sentence an offender to a sentence that extends beyond the offender's 18th birthday. The first part of the sentence is carried out in a Texas Youth Commission facility and then, after the juvenile's 18th birthday, the offender is transferred to a Texas Department of Corrections facility. For example, at age 16 you could get a 20 year sentence (I think the max is 40 for capital cases and some first degree felonies) and spend your first 2 or 3 years in TYC and then get transferred to TDC for the remainder. That's not to say that the above is how the case would be handled here in Texas. The "juvenile justice" section of the Texas Family Code does not apply to juveniles under the age of ten.
There does not appear to be a similar determinate sentencing option in Arizona. Basically, unless you get certified as an adult (for which you have to be at least 14 years old), you are going to be released from detention, prison, probation, etc. on your 18th birthday.
I have to wonder what options they are considering in Arizona, other than prolonged detention, that are only available to this kid if he is certified as an adult. Options such as a mental health evaluation, placement in a treatment facility, counseling, psychiatric care, detention, etc. are all available and quite common in the juvenile system.
Interesting case.