Re: After years of ripping off the public I say LET THEM DIE
The idea that GM or Ford cars equal Honda or Toyota cars is laughable. I've owned 2 late model domestic cars that were not the equivalent. I owned a brand new Alero that was great engine wise but not nearly the equivalent of a Honda Accord. I then owned a late model Ford Escort and was equally disappointed if I were to compare that to a Corolla or Civic. In fact I now drive a Corolla on a regular basis and have driven a Civic on a regular basis over the past 4 years and both are excellent cars.
I know its anecdotal, but I know a lot of other people who feel the same way I do.
Re: After years of ripping off the public I say LET THEM DIE
BTW, just so we're clear...
I support helping the big 3. The last thing we need right now are even more jobs lost but it needs to come with a lot of strings attached. I'm not sure what would be wise because I'm not an automotive expert, but if we can save those jobs with government help then I'm all for it as long as the proper plan is in place to benefit the tax payers in the end.
Re: After years of ripping off the public I say LET THEM DIE
No auto mfr can escape the downturn, but some are victims of their own mistakes. Even Toyota is in bad shape:
http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/11/gm-and-ford-may.html
Re: After years of ripping off the public I say LET THEM DIE
Where is Lee Iacocca when you need him?
Re: After years of ripping off the public I say LET THEM DIE
Eh, Lee saved the Chrysler through the K car. Which was a terrible pile of shit, and most of them were dead within 10 years. Admittedly, it was faily fuel efficient. However, we already have the mode for a better, cheaper car - the Prius and the Insight. We need 60 mpg cars. I don't care how big they are - people only need to go 75 maximum, and most cars have enough HP to propel them to 140. Wasted efficiency.
Re: After years of ripping off the public I say LET THEM DIE
Quote:
Originally Posted by
MannyIsGod
:lol @ this being the fault of a union. Somehow Japan's automakers make cars here and pay great wages with great benefits and make money.
this has to be one of your worst post ever. Healthcare cost alone tack on $1500 per GM vehicle compared to $400 for toyota in the states and $150 abroad. Oh..btw, most of their production is abroad.
Manufacturing is dying in this country.
Re: After years of ripping off the public I say LET THEM DIE
See, this is why I'm farily ambivalent towards unions. I don't have much education on them, but from I've seen, there are as many cons as pros for their existence.
Also, how can we guarantee the Big 3 won't fuck us over when all is said and done? See: AIG and their vacations costing hundreds of thousands after the taxpayers bailed them out....
Re: After years of ripping off the public I say LET THEM DIE
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LnGrrrR
See, this is why I'm farily ambivalent towards unions. I don't have much education on them, but from I've seen, there are as many cons as pros for their existence.
Also, how can we guarantee the Big 3 won't fuck us over when all is said and done? See: AIG and their vacations costing hundreds of thousands after the taxpayers bailed them out....
btw, the big 3 lose money on small energy-efficient vehicles like the ford focus. The profits they make are on SUVs, but with the energy situation the way it is, this strategy in untenable. The only reason energy is down now is because we're in a global slowdown.
Without solving the energy crises that we're in, bailout money will only keep this business temporarily afloat.
Energy is the Democrat noose.
Re: After years of ripping off the public I say LET THEM DIE
The self-employed mechanic down the street is easily making six figures.
Time to adapt to the market holmes.
Re: After years of ripping off the public I say LET THEM DIE
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Thunder Dan
But, unlike the banks- these companies didn't have total control over their demise. The banks offered credit to people that shouldn't be given credit- when housing prices dropped, these banks lost big time.
Now, auto companies in America were given a raw deal by the very country they strongly supported for over 100 years. I'll explain, but first if you are going to say things like "they make shitty cars" or "their cars suck" --save it,those are opinions and this isn't about that. Not to be a jerk but I know much more about this than you do because a) I grew up in a family that owned 3 car dealerships (including a foreign maker) and b) I have written 2 thesis papers in college so I have studied this subject immensely .
So back in the 70's Americans demanded large cars. Ford, GM and Chrysler offered them the best large cars and were thriving. They had a standard model of production in which they would hire Americans and sell those same cars back to Americans. The philosophy was to sell a product the workers that made it could afford to buy and everything was going great. In the late 70's there was a gas crisis and the Detroit auto companies were opened up to the fact that they needed to build smaller, more fuel efficient cars...which since they didn't ever foresee this crisis (nobody did), ...
Actually M. King Hubbert, who worked for Shell, did and presented it on this paper.
Re: After years of ripping off the public I say LET THEM DIE
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anti.Hero
The self-employed mechanic down the street is easily making six figures.
Time to adapt to the market holmes.
i agree. They need to trim down and foreign automakers should have an incentive(positive or negative) to produce here.
Re: After years of ripping off the public I say LET THEM DIE
You know what happens in a small business when you make shitty products that aren't competitive in the market? You go out of business.
Why are some companies "too big" or too good or whatever to fail? If my company starts to fail, there will be no one to bail us out.
Re: After years of ripping off the public I say LET THEM DIE
Quote:
Originally Posted by
LnGrrrR
See, this is why I'm farily ambivalent towards unions. I don't have much education on them, but from I've seen, there are as many cons as pros for their existence.
Also, how can we guarantee the Big 3 won't fuck us over when all is said and done? See: AIG and their vacations costing hundreds of thousands after the taxpayers bailed them out....
You can back on them fucking us all over. They won't do shit to address their problems, it will be business as usual for UAW leadership. Living high on the government tit while American taxpayers pick up the tab.
Bullshit.
Re: After years of ripping off the public I say LET THEM DIE
average cost per worker for gm is 75 and 48 for toyota.. you do the math?
unions fucking shit up??? YES... its not the economy..its been this way for years.
Re: After years of ripping off the public I say LET THEM DIE
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Clandestino
average cost per worker for gm is 75 and 48 for toyota.. you do the math?
unions fucking shit up??? YES... its not the economy..its been this way for years.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=109198
Re: After years of ripping off the public I say LET THEM DIE
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Anti.Hero
The self-employed mechanic down the street is easily making six figures.
Time to adapt to the market holmes.
The small town mechanics are struggling big time because of the costs it requires to buy the equipment it takes to work on the cars of today. They have to buy thousands of dollars of equipment just to find out what is wrong with these computerized cars. Hell a GM TECH2 will cost you over $4,000- plus you have to buy to update software every month to update it which will run you a couple hundred bucks. That is just for one manufacturer because Toyota has their computer, Ford has theirs, Mercedes has theirs. And you can't make a fortune changing oil and rotating tires.
Re: After years of ripping off the public I say LET THEM DIE
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Thunder Dan
The small town mechanics are struggling big time because of the costs it requires to buy the equipment it takes to work on the cars of today. They have to buy thousands of dollars of equipment just to find out what is wrong with these computerized cars. Hell a GM TECH2 will cost you over $4,000- plus you have to buy to update software every month to update it which will run you a couple hundred bucks. That is just for one manufacturer because Toyota has their computer, Ford has theirs, Mercedes has theirs. And you can't make a fortune changing oil and rotating tires.
Sounds like an opportunity for an opportunistic young software developer to build a composite device.
Screw that, the American public should just give the big three a couple hundred billion to make it right..
Re: After years of ripping off the public I say LET THEM DIE
I had a K-car that went 300,000 miles and never put me on the side of the road (turbo Chrysler Laser). I was trying to get a new business started and was calling on customers all over the place, broke as hell and praying the car would hold up. It did. The business took off. I will always hard a warm spot for that car which was still running fine when I sold it.
Part of my business involves sales to auto dealerships. They pump a huge amount of money in the local economy. To let that sector of our economy fail seems rather short-sighted. If the GM stores went out of business and were replaced by Chery or Great Wall my business would not take a direct hit, initially it would prosper by serving those new accounts, but 3,000,000 pink slips in this economy would have a hellava fall-out and ripple effect through suppliers would be several times that.
If the $75 vs. $48 cost differential is accurate what accounts for it? Out of curiosity, do GM factory employees make that much more than Toyota's? Does that account for the disparity in costs? I suspect not. Some of it is in the pension plans, of course, which Toyota does not have to carry right now. Do our right-wingers here advocate yanking the pensions of retirees? What are some of the other factors (please don't just say unions-more detail, please)?
I suspect that the solution will have the auto worker and retirees take a hard hit. Hopefully the management which has made a lot of stupid, short-sighted decisions takes a harder hit. The end result needs to be a strong domestic industry that can compete on equal terms with the foreign brands.
