Not going to happen dude. It will never dwindle down. As long as we have natural disasters, death, life, etc. it will always be around.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
I am not arguing for it or against it, just stating a fact.
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Not going to happen dude. It will never dwindle down. As long as we have natural disasters, death, life, etc. it will always be around.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
I am not arguing for it or against it, just stating a fact.
Too many to list... I'll give you one off the top of my head: creation of life was attributed to be restricted to the supernatural.Quote:
Originally Posted by I Love Me Some Me
When has life from non-life been duplicated?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
I'm a Catholic. I was not born into a religious household. My mom is a Catholic too, but she does no practice, aside assiting to Church on Christmas day. She probably knows less about her religion than many atheist who post on tis board. My dad is an atheist . . a baseline bum kind of Atheist.
I went to Church as a child and recieved my First Communion. I never got Confirmed. I drifted away from Jesus in my late teens. I became and agnostic for the better part of my 20s until I started reading the Bible and other Christian books again (Chesterton, CS Lewis).
It was then when I started putting a lot of thought into religion and concluded, as many others have pointed out, that the proof there is a God is around us. I strongly believe there is no way we are the result of randomness taking place since the beginning of times. The Earth and all it's beauty (especially human kind) appears to be part of somebody's plan.
I concur. I see God every single day.Quote:
Originally Posted by smeagol
You're proposing that we'll never be able to determine what causes those things, and stating that as a fact. I'll say it's an opinion, just as good as anyones'. Actually, I think we came a long way on one of those (life), and I think what precludes us to know more about disasters is the sheer amount of data we would need to have at hand to study them.Quote:
Originally Posted by I. Hustle
In a lab, many many times. Google Abiogenesis.Quote:
Originally Posted by I Love Me Some Me
Why does a god or a "higher power" or whatever and evolution have to be mutually exclusive?Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
To me, the power or force or whatever that causes a chromosome to replicate is what I call "god".
For the record, I don't believe there's a man with a white beard sitting on a throne in the clouds.
Your opinion is certainly welcome, and I'm not going to argue with you about it, but I think it's interesting what you posted above, because Earth didn't look anything like it looks like today many million years ago, before there was life in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by smeagol
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
That's when Earth was in its IDEAL state. Humans suck.
Sincerely,
The Environmentalist Movement
I was going to point out that at the very least we've managed simple proteins (IIRC) from inorganic material, which shows it's at least possible. That was back when I was in high school and I've made no effort to keep up to date.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
Link.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Organic material does not life make.Quote:
Originally Posted by fyatuk
The instant I die, EVERY SINGLE thing necessary for life will be present and accounted for - but I won't be.
I'm familiar, as I am with the Miller–Urey experiments, which have proven to be less and less significant as time and further research goes on.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
If this is all you need as evidence, you are pretty easy to please.
No I am proposing that as long as those things occur that there will always be people that believe in some type of celestial being. I am not saying that science won't come up with ideas as to why these things happen I am just saying that people are always going to be in awe of certain events and attribute them to a higher power.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
As long as we have those people, religion will not go away and that is a fact.
AbiogenesisQuote:
Originally Posted by 101A
Oh.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
You mean the one that says this:
Quote:
From organic molecules to protocells
The question "How do simple organic molecules form a protocell?" is largely unanswered but there are many hypotheses.
That you don't give it the importance it deserves it's a different story altogether. It's a verifiable experiment that shows you can create organic elements from non-organic parts. This factually refutes one of the claims that life could not have come from non-life. If the basic ingredients of life can be created by non-life components, then we have the first stone of our building. Right now this experiment have triggered further theories on how those components have merged together into RNA/DNA. That combination has only been done in a lab these days, as we discussed with another forum member here, but I think as more research is done, we'll figure out exactly which one of the theories is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by I Love Me Some Me
Not entirely true...Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Man's explicit micro-management of such experiments invalidates the notion that the processes in question can occur naturally without his interference.
But given our previous discussion on that very element.... you and I will never see eye to eye on that one... In fact you skirted this particular point three times... choosing instead to suggest that it was possible that somewhere in our universe we would find planets with "man-made" chemicals/plastics. While 'possible', that notion is rather inplausible... I mean, it would be wishful thinking to suggest that chemicals created by man's own creative intellect - ones with no natural equivalent... can be duplicated by random acts of nature.
We don't know how it happened without human intervention. Doesn't mean we don't know or have not built protocells from organic molecules.Quote:
Originally Posted by 101A
You can ask Phenomanul right here in this very forum. Even if we don't agree on wether this could have been a natural occurrence or not, we certainly agree that we know how to do it.
I know we don't agree. You probably could not naturally reproduce the Miller-Urey experiment in today's Earth. The reality is that the Earth didn't look like today million years ago. And that the importance of the Miller-Urey experiment is so great is because it fits with the description of what the Earth looked like way back when.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomanul
This statement is a gross oversimplification. My disillusionment with religious institutes comes from spite at organized power grabs by people looking to push their dogma on everyone. If you consider it small-minded and hateful to have extreme quarrels with the religious right pushing their religion in kids' science classes, a place where people are supposed to learn skepticism and formation of theories based on hard evidence and not faith or feelings, then there's really nothing I can say to you. If you think I'm arrogant because I say the church is full of it when they profess to know the answers to all of the big questions, so be it. But religion has an incredibly checkered history, and it's not doing too well in the present when you have people like Bush saying he invaded Iraq because god told him to do it and you have muslim extremists killing so they can be sent to a martyr's paradise not unlike the one promised to every faithful Christian by the bible. Religion is big business, and preys on people's greatest hopes and fears to make money. There's Oral Roberts threatening to kill himself if his flock didn't donate $8 million. There's L Ron Hubbard writing a book to get tax-exempt status for his blackmail of Hollywood actors who reveal their biggest skeletons to his church at their weakest moments. There's that scumbag Hagee here who lives like a Persian king on the money he raises from the suckers who phone him in. Jim Bakker. Ted Haggard. The Taliban. George Bush. Osama Bin Laden. This is the face of religion. Religion is the abstraction of the idea of "believe me because I say so".Quote:
Originally Posted by The Reckoning
My atheism comes from the lack of evidence to support the existence of a god. Logic dictates that a valid argument can still be correctly used to reach any conclusion if it is based on a false premise. Technically, a valid argument can establish an arbitrary conclusion if an assumption going in is unsound. Hence, muslim extremists can easily argue that their suicide bombings are the most honorable actions they could ever do. Christians can convince themselves it is honorable to deny civil rights to gays because the book says they're sinners. Back on point, I cannot accept the idea of a supernatural god on the idea that physical evidence isn't needed for something entirely supernatural. It makes no sense to believe something that cannot be reasonably shown to be true, as this throws knowledge into chaos.
Anyways, it's a matter of perspective....
Most will see in such experiments only what their world view allows them to see.
As interesting as this subject has always been for me, I don't have the time to discuss it on end (it makes me rather unproductive at work and at home)....
I know. We just have different views on this. Nothing wrong with that, and this thread is certainly not for that. :toastQuote:
Originally Posted by Phenomanul