Christians tell Hindus "not in my house"

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

That's hot.

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If all you have in response is a rather shameful and lame attempt at humor to avoid admitting that you might be just slightly wrong or inaccurate when you imply that religion is nothing but evil, I understand.

No one likes to admit that they might be wrong, just don't expect anyone to really buy your arguments.

People will see you for what you are when you say things like this, and if what you say here isn't something you could stand up in front of your friends and family and say in person, then I can only hope that someday you might look inside and grow a little beyond such things.

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hitler prayed before major battles

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Originally Posted by Phenomanul

Alongside the satanic cult that put him in power.... but don't tell clambake... he doesn't believe in demons.

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(shakes head)

I guess it is easier to believe that Hitler et al. were somehow satanists rather than people who actually believed in Christ and thought of themselves as Christians.

An odd duality given that you have already made the logical distinction between a religion's worth versus people that make up that religion.

You are comfortable, and honest enough to say "those people say they are Christians, but do some very un-Christ-like" things", so why prevaricate and try to claim the leaders of Nazi germany were really not Christians?

I would say that you prefer to believe otherwise, evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

(shakes head)

I guess it is easier to believe that Hitler et al. were somehow satanists rather than people who actually believed in Christ and thought of themselves as Christians.

An odd duality given that you have already made the logical distinction between a religion's worth versus people that make up that religion.

You are comfortable, and honest enough to say "those people say they are Christians, but do some very un-Christ-like" things", so why prevaricate and try to claim the leaders of Nazi germany were really not Christians?

I would say that you prefer to believe otherwise, evidence to the contrary notwithstanding.

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There is more than enough evidence to show that Hitler was involved in several satanic rituals... Much of it surfaced after several Nazi files were made public, 'declassified' in 2001.

You can't serve two masters....

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Originally Posted by clambake

are you saying that people who kill in the name of religion has nothing to do with religion?

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Originally Posted by Phenomanul

Conveniently you've ignored the fact that I stated on three separate occasions that "two wrongs don't make a right"... I'm not defending the actions of anyone.

Your bias is clear...

Like I said earlier.... grow up.

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It is a fair question, Phenomanul.

Just as fairly: I think you have answered it already.

To my understanding you have answered:

Yes, it does have something to do with religion in a sense that it is done supposedly in the name of religion. Further, the core of most religions do not endorse wanton murder, and that the people who commit such things do not do so because their religion requires it, they do so because they are fallible human beings doing things that are actually against the religion they profess.

I would agree with that statement.

I'm not even sure what the debate is about here, but the resolution is pretty simple.

You either believe that people who do things in the name of anything, do so because they are acting in accordance with what that thing tells them to do.

Or, you believe they do so not in accordance with what that thing tells them to do.

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Originally Posted by Phenomanul

There is more than enough evidence to show that Hitler was involved in several satanic rituals... Much of it surfaced after several Nazi files were made public, 'declassified' in 2001.

You can't serve two masters....

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I am not sure there is "more than enough" evidence.

I do not know exactly what evidence you are referring to, but I think that your confirmation bias is probably leading you to assign more weight to it than is reasonable.

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Originally Posted by I Love Me Some Me

I'm not even sure what the debate is about here, but the resolution is pretty simple.

You either believe that people who do things in the name of anything, do so because they are acting in accordance with what that thing tells them to do.

Or, you believe they do so not in accordance with what that thing tells them to do.

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You say that, but all I hear is:

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

to which I reply:

"uh, what?"


Could you try that again? I really am not entirely sure what you are trying to get at.

Anyhoo, time to get to work.

Peace out, my ninjas.

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/ninja-12.jpg

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

You say that, but all I hear is:

`Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
Did gyre and gimble in the wabe:
All mimsy were the borogoves,
And the mome raths outgrabe.

to which I reply:

"uh, what?"


Could you try that again? I really am not entirely sure what you are trying to get at.

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:lol

I guess the question is, in your understanding of Christ's teachings, do you believe the 'Christians' who committed these horrible offenses did so in correct response to Christ's teachings?

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

If all you have in response is a rather shameful and lame attempt at humor to avoid admitting that you might be just slightly wrong or inaccurate when you imply that religion is nothing but evil, I understand.

No one likes to admit that they might be wrong, just don't expect anyone to really buy your arguments.

People will see you for what you are when you say things like this, and if what you say here isn't something you could stand up in front of your friends and family and say in person, then I can only hope that someday you might look inside and grow a little beyond such things.

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Not quite at the same level as the atrocities committed in the name of religion, is it? Nursing a few sick babies doesn't quite make up for the crusades, brainwashing black slaves, 9/11, and all the other great things religion has brought us. So get off your high horse.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Not quite at the same level as the atrocities committed in the name of religion, is it? Nursing a few sick babies doesn't quite make up for the crusades, brainwashing black slaves, 9/11, and all the other great things religion has brought us. So get off your high horse.

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So I guess things like schools and hospitals which were founded by the religious don't count either?

By the way if it weren't for the crusades you'd be bowing to allah right now.

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Originally Posted by SAtoDallas

So I guess things like schools and hospitals which were founded by the religious don't count either?

By the way if it weren't for the crusades you'd be bowing to allah right now.

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If we're going to talk hypotheticals, Islam is nowhere near as hostile without having Muslims slaughtered by Christians in the crusades. If it wasn't for the crusades you would be bowing to Allah, not me. (of course, making your assumption that the crusades kept Europe from being Muslim).

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Not quite at the same level as the atrocities committed in the name of religion, is it? Nursing a few sick babies doesn't quite make up for the crusades, brainwashing black slaves, 9/11, and all the other great things religion has brought us. So get off your high horse.

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Random Guy is on a high horse???

You're the one preferentially judging equally atrocious acts of human history as 'unequal'...

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Originally Posted by SAtoDallas

By the way if it weren't for the crusades you'd be bowing to allah right now.

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I would probably credit that more to the Reconquista in Spain and Jan Sobieski's leadership in the Battle of Vienna, neither of which are generally considered crusades.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Not quite at the same level as the atrocities committed in the name of religion, is it? Nursing a few sick babies doesn't quite make up for the crusades, brainwashing black slaves, 9/11, and all the other great things religion has brought us. So get off your high horse.

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Did you ever hear of William Wilberforce? Several prominent Christian leaders opposed the practice of slavery. Greed and prejudice led to slavery not religion. Your bias is unrelenting. Revising and ignoring history to suit your arguments is counterproductive to your stance.

For that matter, on a related topic, most Christian leaders within Nazi Germany were opposed to the Nazi party, its tactics, and its beliefs. Many were killed for it.

the bible says slavery is cool.

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Originally Posted by RandomGuy

I am not sure there is "more than enough" evidence.

I do not know exactly what evidence you are referring to, but I think that your confirmation bias is probably leading you to assign more weight to it than is reasonable.

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Read up on Hitler, Hess and Himnler...

Or rent "The History of the Occult Third Reich" on DVD. It aired on the History channel 2 years ago (?) as a 5 part mini-series.

Like I said, or rather, like Jesus said, "You can't serve two masters."

The fact that Hitler professed to be "christian" was greatly countered by his actions.

Let's see what we know about Hitler...

--- He ordered the murder of millions.
--- He engaged in pedofilia and homosexuality.
--- His obsession with eastern occult religions (and hence why a swastika was chosen as a Nazi party symbol) don't particularly validate his alleged christianity.
--- His anti-semitism, as many would hate to admit, is not biblically founded.
--- His own 'messianic' ambitions were blasphemy.

Look... even satan recognizes Jesus as KING of KINGS and LORD of LORDS... but that doesn't make him a christian.

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Originally Posted by clambake

the bible says slavery is cool.

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So how many slaves did Jesus own?

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Originally Posted by Phenomanul

So how many slaves did Jesus own?

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the bible says slavery is cool.

Did the bible specifically say Jesus owned no slaves?

Just curious.

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Originally Posted by Phenomanul

Did you ever hear of William Wilberforce? Several prominent Christian leaders opposed the practice of slavery. Greed and prejudice led to slavery not religion. Your bias is unrelenting. Revising and ignoring history to suit your arguments is counterproductive to your stance.

For that matter, on a related topic, most Christian leaders within Nazi Germany were opposed to the Nazi party, its tactics, and its beliefs. Many were killed for it.

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Please. The masters filled their slaves' heads with Christian heaven fantasies about how their toil and suffering was good and would make their spot in the afterlife that much better.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Not quite at the same level as the atrocities committed in the name of religion, is it? Nursing a few sick babies doesn't quite make up for the crusades, brainwashing black slaves, 9/11, and all the other great things religion has brought us. So get off your high horse.

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besides...aren't churches SUPPOSED to do those sort of things?
like help the sick, disabled, homeless and needy?
not just take ten percent of our income & turn a profit...
i think that all churches in the US that don't perform some sort of community service should lose their tax-exempt status...
taking in a income w/o putting anything back in the community is just robbery and we shouldn't allow it...
would we allow an oil company(or any business) to exist w/tax credits, if they didn't bring jobs or charity to the community?...
and the fact that those extremist in the vid are elected officials is just scary...
what's next, a christian version of shariah?
it shows disrespect to one of the foundations of this nation being founded, freedom of religion...

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Not quite at the same level as the atrocities committed in the name of religion, is it? Nursing a few sick babies doesn't quite make up for the crusades, brainwashing black slaves, 9/11, and all the other great things religion has brought us. So get off your high horse.

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"nursing a few sick babies..."

You say that as if there is something that would, in your mind, make up for all of that.

How about nursing tens of millions of sick babies? hundreds of millions?

Since we are playing the moral equivalancy game, we need to know the rules, of course.

The rules are, by your own implication:

1) We can assume religion is good if we can name the things it has done that are good, and they outweigh somehow the bad things.

2) We can assume religion is bad if we can name the things it has done that are evil, and they outweigh somehow the good things.

You cannot logically have #2 without logically having #1. If you want to admit that your position isn't logical, say so now before we begin, so I don't have to waste my time on someone who admits they are being irrational.

Do you accept that these are the rules, and say that your position is a logical one?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Did the bible specifically say Jesus owned no slaves?

Just curious.

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The bible is, to my knowledge, silent on that issue. I am by far not an expert though.

Given what I understand about the place/time and probable economic status of Jesus, it would be a safe assumption to guess that he did own one or two. It may be that references to his slaves were purged during the many re-writes and edits of the stories in the bible in the first millenium and a half after his death.

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

Please. The masters filled their slaves' heads with Christian heaven fantasies about how their toil and suffering was good and would make their spot in the afterlife that much better.

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So you would rather focus on the 'fake' christians... got ya.

I'm sure you've never lied before.