Hindsight 20/20: Spurs Made Mistake

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Originally Posted by timvp

Because he didn't accept the three-year, $11M offer? If I were him, I would have laughed at that offer too.

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You know how Fegan's presence affected the (non-) negotiaitons. Don't act like it was business as usual.[/quote]Yeah the Spurs ended up giving $5M to Robert Horry[/quote]For a year.

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Doesn't seem like the right move to me, looking at it in hisndsight.

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Which is the most convenient time to look at it if you want to be right.

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Between three-years, $11M and five-years, $24M, there is a lot of middle ground. They didn't even try.

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Fegan.

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The Spurs made a mistake. How dare you say that.

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That was an easy call, AT THE TIME. Which is when I made it. Let Ghost bring this issue back up if he chooses.

I am a huge Stephen Jackson fan. I wanted him instead of Barry this past summer. The Spurs should never have let him go. The only thing he shared with Jaren Jackson was his last name which probably, unfortunate to Stephen, reminded Pop and RC about the mistake they made with Jaren's contract. He didn't get the offer he wanted, though it was market value. It just didn't workout.

Though Barry started out slow, he has raised his three point percentage significantly. Ultimately, Brent will be judged on how well he plays in the playoffs. I really don't care how he plays in the regular season, as long as the Spurs are winning.

timvp = SequSpur

I've been saying this shit since the 03 championship and was ridiculed for it. Finally, someone else is seeing the sequlight.

Bout damn time.

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Jesus, I feel like I'm in a Halloween movie. This moaning over the FACT that Jax is gone (almost two years now, boys and girls) just won't die because TIMVP and some others apparently won't let it. I wonder if they are personal friends with Jax or something? If so, I'll give 'em props for personal loyalty to a friend.

But how much personal loyalty did JAX give to a coach and a franchise that gave him a chance. NONE! The NBA is a business and business decisions were made on BOTH sides. Grow up and go forward.

I like our team now, but last summer i was DESPERATELY hoping we would sign SJAX and reunite. He is much improved from two years ago. However, I dont know who would start because taking Ginobili's starting place away is like slapping in him in the face. He has proven himself as a starter this season and is at least consistent in scoring (not necessarily consistent with hitting shots, but getting to the free throw line etc.)
The best memory of Jackson i have is when he hit the trio of threes in Game 6 in the Finals. That was so awesome. He also hit threes in the Phoenix game 6 and the Mavericks game 6. I also remember going to a Timberwolves game and he hit a three with 2 seconds left to send it into overtime. He was definitely a fearless player.
I miss him but we have to move on. We should just be thankful for what he did two years ago for us.

Did all the great posters here forget about Hedo?

The Spurs possibly could have come to some compromise with SJax, but when Hedo became available, the Spurs picked the bird in their hand rather than the bird in the bush. Now in 20/20 hindsight, Hedo didn't work out, but at the time, it seemed very reasonable that Hedo could replace much of what SJax did. While Hedo faltered later in the Spurs playoff run, Hedo did play well for the Kings in the playoffs.

The correct view is that the Spurs, SJax, and his agent were making negotiations difficult and protracted. When Hedo became available, the Spurs grabbed him and said bye to SJax. We thought it was a reasonable move. If you want to apply Ghostwriter-like hindsight and what-ifs, yes, the Spurs obviously could have done better. However, hindsight is poor logic for an argument. You need to go back to what the situation was then and what we knew then.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Lately Barry's been pulled out for horrific passing, not his D.

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2 passes. 2 bad passes, one at the elbow of the free throw line from way out top, and the other on a bounce pass in the middle of the court...I think I saw Beno Udrih literally trip over his own feet and fall 3 times in the last game alone and not get pulled.

Pop needs to make a decision. Either let Barry play his game, or just stick to Devin. He's not a defensive presence. Period. So don't worry about that and let the guy get more than 4 shots a game and more than 18 minutes.

Give Barry a chance. He may suck during the season, but lets see how he does in the playoffs before we get our pitchforks and torches.

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Originally Posted by timvp

That is correct, good sir. Pop even mentioned it at the time.

But it doesn't change the fact that it was a mistake. Jaren wouldn't have gone on and put up the numbers that Stephen has.

The point of this thread is to point out would could have been and that the Spurs made a mistake. With mistakes, all you can really do is learn and move on. They have a great chance to win it all this season and that's all that really counts.

But if the same situations comes up again, they need to think twice before forgetting this tidbit of history. For example, if Devin Brown comes up clutch in the playoffs, there is a history to base further actions on.

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I'm glad someone finally mentioned Jaren Jackson.
The problem with hindsight is that we have NO IDEA what would have happened had SJax taken the deal in 2003. The deal that was MORE THAN HIS MARKET VALUE. Because it was more than he was worth at the time, they actually repeated their mistake with Jaren- they just didn't have to pay because SJax was dumb enough not to take it.

Had Jax taken the deal, he might have still had some knucklehead move like he did in Detroit this year. Maybe it would have come off the court, but it could have easily still happened.

Had Jax taken the deal, he might have endured an injury that kept him from ever contributing again in a big way.

Had Jax taken the deal, he might have gone silent in the same way Jaren did. It's not entirely clear that in 2003 Jax wasn't just trying to prove he was worth big money. What has he done since then? Has he won a championship with Indiana or Atlanta (HA!) since then? No. In fact, if Indiana keeps going they way they've been going, he may wind up on two post-Spurs teams that don't make the payoffs.

The Spurs made a generous offer, a gamble on a player who had one good postseason, and the player turned it down. Time will tell whether that was a regrettable decision. Right now, I think they only one who regrets it is Jax.

As far as this year's Spurs, we DO need the fire - but we will have it. My prediction is that the players who will light it up in the playoffs are Duncan, Manu, Horry, and Brown. All of them have done so in the past.

We're not there yet, but we're damn good. The team knows they aren't there yet. But we don't want them there yet - it's still two months till the playoffs.

bump!

First of all you have to be blind to think that SJax wouldn't make the spurs better.

SJAX > Barry by a long shot. Nevertheless, Manu and Tony of 2005 are way better than in 2003, so much better that SJAX will not be missed because the spurs are going to win it all.

Barry will have his moment in the Sun and that's all the spurs need.

It all goes back trying to sign Kidd. Not only did Spurs end up getting fucked by Kidd (thank God) but they didn't put a priority in dealing with Jack. Beyond that Ludden said Pop had wated to draft Josh Howardbut was talked out of it to free up cap space. So possibly instead of Jack and Howard we have Brent. At least we don't have Kidd and no Manu.

I still think the flaw in the it was a mistake to not resign S.Jax at his price argument is the fact that it's not a zero-sum game.

My point is this: would you rather have Manu and Jackson or Manu and Tony? That is the choice you'd be looking at, had the Spurs made the big money offer that Jax wanted in 03. It could only be one or the other.

I'll agree that it's not technically as cut-and-dried as that. The Spurs could have, under this CBA, resigned all of them for the max. But from a practical standpoint it wasn't ever going to happen.

Doubt me? Remember all the hubbub during camp about getting Tony's new deal done? Remember that the stumbling block to Tony's new deal was a matter of $2 million over 6 years after Parker had already come down in his demands (and from what was sure to be his "market value?" That $2 million was all about the Spurs salary outlays over the long-term. Now, if you resign Jackson, you don't spend $20 million on Barry over 4 years, but you'd be spending more than that on Jackson. So, if the organization was gunshy on the new Parker deal with the handicap of Barry's contract, what makes anyone think that the organization would have still spent the money to renew Tony's deal? Nothing could.

Now, if you're in the camp that says that Tony's play doesn't merit his deal, Jax is your boy and you can complain about the Spurs manuevers. Personally, I don't see things that way and I think, all things considered, the Spurs have done a fantastic job of locking up a very good core at salary levels that the organization can feel comfortable about. Absent some crazy circumstance, this group should be very, very competitive for the next 4-5 years.

As I recall Jack wasn't looking for the kind of money he ended up getting from Indianna. He was looking for more like MLE money.

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would you rather have Manu and Jackson or Manu and Tony? That is the choice you'd be looking at, had the Spurs made the big money offer that Jax wanted in 03.

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This is BS. One, Jax wasn't asking for big money, he was asking for the kind of deal we gave to Brent Barry this year.

Second, we are where we are today because of Pop's stupid ass fucking fetish over Jason Kidd.

We could be starting a perimeter squad of Tony, Manu, and Buckets today, if Pop wouldn't have had his man crash on an over age NBA PG who has since failed to get his team anywhere in the playoffs (when he's healthy enough).

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Originally Posted by picnroll

As I recall Jack wasn't looking for the kind of money he ended up getting from Indianna. He was looking for more like MLE money.

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Even MLE money is equivalent to or more than what the Spurs are paying Barry. My point is that if the Spurs were quite reluctant to spend the $2 million to settle things with Parker, and if the Spurs had already incurred greater salary obligations based on resigning Jax, I have no idea why anyone could realistically think that they'd have handled Tony the same way.

So for me, it comes down to whether you think the Spurs are better with Tony or Jax, since it seems unlikely that they could have had both past this season.

The Spurs and SJax probably could have come to a good deal for both sides if not for the Hedo "opportunity".

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

This is BS. One, Jax wasn't asking for big money, he was asking for the kind of deal we gave to Brent Barry this year.

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Now wait a second. You lead the charge around here on complaining about the reluctance to shell out for Tony and, again, that was with the burden of Barry's contract.

If they were reluctant to pay Tony with Barry's contract on the payroll, what makes you think they would have been willing to shell out when Jax would have commanded either more money or more years (if not both)? If you can square those two facts somehow, I'll hear you out. But please tell me why the Spurs wouldn't have balked at another $2 million to Tony if they were obligated for more salary going forward. I'm curious to hear the logic.

Holt's position, as I understand it or at least the conjecture about it, is that his threshold is the luxury tax. At worst it would have meant he didn't use MLE next year with Parker resigned. If CBA were favorable luxury tax-wise as some predict MLE may have even been a possibility next year.

What's done is done, but man, I'm so happy for my boy Jack tonight. He's got the whole world saying he's an idiot and he comes back and shows that he's still money in the biggest games.

Maybe it was a mistake. And maybe the Spurs learned their lesson.

Would Manu have gotten the money he did if Holt didn't finally wake up and realize he couldn't have a Championship team for a bargain price anymore?

Oh, well, the Pistons will beat the Pacers, and the Spurs will beat the Pistons, so it really won't make a difference to me.

Horry > Jackson.

If Indiana still doesnt want him.

Bring him the fuck back.

I also figured this would come back as a "Pop's fault" thread.

I agree with timvp, lets get SJax back, and while we are at it, lets get Steve Kerr and Danny Ferry too, those guys really contributed to the 2003 championship.

Hell, maybe the admiral would suit up and give us another ring...

I'm sorry for the sarcasm, no I don't like Stephen Jackson style. Spurs front office might have done a mistake letting SJax go, but they got Hedo Turkoglu, Ron Mercer and Brent Barry its not their fault none of those guys fit.

Move on already, if Brent Barry doesnt cut it, lets get someone else who does, that doesnt mean we should get SJax back.

Fuck Stephen Jackson, bring back Jaren Jackson!