Initial Reaction: Spurs vs. Celtics - Mar. 20

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This one stings. The Spurs were locked into a tough battle with the Celtics when they just fell apart at the line. In the last two and a half minutes, Michael Finley and Tony Parker combined to go 0-for-6 at the free throw line. The Celtics got just enough offense on the other end to pull out a 80-77 victory.

Outside of the charity stripe debacle, the Spurs played rather well. Their defense gave great energy and performed well. Although the Celtics have a lot of banged up players, San Antonio's defense still deserves a lot of credit.

Offensively, the Spurs had a hard time scoring the ball, especially in the fourth quarter. If Parker didn't create a shot for himself or someone else, there was basically nothing else working. The struggles on offense are somewhat concerning, though they were also understandable. With Duncan still slowed, Manu Ginobili out and the Celtics defense contesting, the Spurs weren't going to light up the scoreboard tonight.

-Tim Duncan was decent in his 32 minutes. He had a few moments throughout where he looked healthier but there's no question he's far away from 100% at this point. Perhaps the best aspect of his performance was his play on the defensive end. Duncan clogged the lane well and was active on the boards. Part of the credit for Duncan's shooting woes should go to Kendrick Perkins. The young Boston big played a physical, mean game and made life difficult for Duncan.

-Tony Parker was a few free throws away from having a very fine outing. On offense, his ability to break down the Celtics defense was impressive, especially considering that Boston boasts the best defense in the NBA. I thought he passed the ball well and kept the tempo at a Spurs pace for much of the game. Defensively, he followed the game plan, helped out on the boards and did good work in the passing lanes.

-I was disappointed with how Roger Mason, Jr. played. Pop at one point had to bench him for being careless with the ball while playing point guard. Although he got to play point guard later in the game, he never looked comfortable running the show. On defense, Mason had no chance against Ray Allen. Mason struggles coming off of screens and Allen is the best in the business at using screens to his advantage. Bad combination.

-Matt Bonner had an average outing. His defense against Kevin Garnett was good in the first half, however it should be noted that KG was coming off of injury and only ended up playing 15 minutes. Bonner also helped out on the boards and didn't back down from the physical play in the interior. He really does need to regain his confidence from the perimeter to once again be a true asset for San Antonio. Bonner shot a little bit better but he needs to shoot more and shoot with more confidence.

-George Hill is really blossoming into a very good defender. His defense against Allen was fantastic and he also had amazing sequences against Eddie House. Since Pop moved him off the ball offensively, Hill has concentrated more on his defense and the result is a player who can impact the game immensely on that end of the court. More good news is he's starting to show an ability to guard shooting guards in addition to point guards.

-Bruce Bowen's revival tour continues. For the second straight game, Bowen played like he could smell the playoffs around the corner. He had Paul Pierce locked up for much of his minutes and even had a rare weakside rejection. If the Spurs can add an energized Bowen to the equation, their overall defense could get a lot better quickly.

-Kurt Thomas played how Kurt Thomas has been playing for the last few months. Very good defense. Powerful on the glass. Physical in the paint on both sides of the court. On this night, it would have been nice if Thomas could find space for his jumper more often but it's tough to critique his performance too much. His offensive rebounding down the stretch almost won the game for San Antonio.

-Drew Gooden bounced back from his first poor outing as a member of the Spurs to contribute a helpful 16 minutes. He rebounded very well and used his athleticism and outside shot to help out offensively. He needs to reel in his shot selection a little bit but that should come naturally as he figures out his niche.

-Ime Udoka only played three minutes but his play was encouraging. He had a block against Pierce and grabbed two rebounds in his limited action.

-I liked how Pop was coaching until a fateful substitution in the fourth quarter. With four and a half minutes left in the game, he inexplicably put Finley into the game. Finley wasn't doing anything offensively and he came in and quickly made the offense worse.

Sometimes I wonder if Pop remembers that the Spurs win with their defense. Putting Finley in for Bowen just didn't make sense at that point. I'd much rather have Bowen, Hill or even Udoka in the game that was a defensive showdown.

Outside of that move, I don't have too much beef with how Pop coached. I thought he rotated the bigs well, though it was interesting that he didn't play Fabricio Oberto after the Argentine big was coming off of his best game of the season.

Overall, the Spurs are going to be kicking themselves for how they let this one slip away. But the important thing to do right now is to brush it off and get ready for Houston.

Believe.

Great read!

Thanks Timvp !

if finley hit hit those free throws
tp would have it his

4-17

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Originally Posted by ploto

4-17

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and spurs were right there

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Originally Posted by ploto

4-17

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The glass half full view on this game is that the Spurs couldn't hit threes, choked at the line, had about 1.7 of the Big 3 healthy and still barely lost against the defending champs.


:drunk :drunk :drunk

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Originally Posted by timvp

The glass half full view on this game is that the Spurs couldn't hit threes, choked at the line, had about 1.7 of the Big 3 healthy and still barely lost against the defending champs.


:drunk :drunk :drunk

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Exactly my point ! they played with with everybody we played with half of the big 3 and Gooden with 4 games historic with the spurs + 50% Fts

Great stuff. A few notes I have:

1. This back-up PG situation is getting ugly. When Parker isn't running the offense we are absolutely stagnant. We weren't great tonight anyway, but especially bad when others were handling the rock.

2. I think Hill is a great slasher and is able to finish well too. Why doesn't Pop use him off picks to attack the basket like Parker when TP's on the bench and we're not scoring? I know he's not as good as Tony, but he seems capable of driving and either finishing or kicking. Certainly more capable than Mason.

3. Speaking of Mason, I think I've fallen out of love with him. His great and clutch shooting earlier in the season were great, but now I'm seeing how he isn't a great defender, doesn't finish well, and doesn't do well as a ball handler. Am I nuts in thinking he's a glorified spot up shooter who is a liability when his shot isn't falling?

4. We really haven't shot well from 3 lately and its killing our offense. Do you think this is an anomaly? Are our stats from 3 going to fall back to earth now? Have teams figured out that this is how to guard us?

5. I like Gooden's energy and I think a lot of his defensive lapses will get better as he learns and becomes more comfortable in the system. That being said, I didn't see him get off a lot of good post moves. It seems he goes for that Garnett/Rasheed-esque fadeaway as his bread and butter. While its a pretty unblockable shot, its also low percentage. Other than that fadeaway the only other offense I've seen is some open jumpers and put backs. Is that all he has? Maybe he looked that way on the low block because of Boston's good D.

6. TP was really good at getting to the paint and they were unable to stop him for a while. He wouldn't be able to get there so easily against a Boston team with a healthy Garnett, right?

7. Finally, these guys got in each others' faces a bit here, especially Timmy and Perkins. It wasn't anything Knicks-Heat, but if they were to meet in the Finals, I think this game established enough of a history that it would be a very nasty, physical, contentious series. And if that happened, both teams have guys you can go to war with.

parker isn't running the offense.. he is doing everything because the rest of his cast sucks.

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Originally Posted by Brazil

Exactly my point ! they played with with everybody we played with half of the big 3 and Gooden with 4 games historic with the spurs + 50% Fts

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Garnett just came back from injury and didn't play at all in the 4th quarter, Ray Allen just came back from injury, Pierce shot uncharacteristically bad and they had no Leon Powe. I wouldn't consider Boston running on all cylinders...

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Originally Posted by timvp

The glass half full view on this game is that the Spurs couldn't hit threes, choked at the line, had about 1.7 of the Big 3 healthy and still barely lost against the defending champs.


:drunk :drunk :drunk

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Well said :toast

Who knows what a line-up of TP, Hill, Bowen, Gooden/ Thomas and TD in the last minute could've done. :(

That George Hill is going to make some SG.

JV needs to be the backup point guard. If Pop's going to be in love with veterans, he needs to be in love with the right ones.

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Originally Posted by NewJerSpur

That George Hill is going to make some SG.

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When we're playing undersized and average 2s, yeah. I think Ray Allen is about the tallest player we can expect Hill to be able to solidly guard.

Ray Allen is average?

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Originally Posted by VI_Massive

2. I think Hill is a great slasher and is able to finish well too. Why doesn't Pop use him off picks to attack the basket like Parker when TP's on the bench and we're not scoring? I know he's not as good as Tony, but he seems capable of driving and either finishing or kicking. Certainly more capable than Mason.

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He had 2 made FGs were very tough drives to the hole against the Boston bigs.

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Originally Posted by BWS-1994

He had 2 made FGs were very tough drives to the hole against the Boston bigs.

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That's what I'm saying! Can't we use his ability in this area when TP's not on the floor and the offense is stalling?

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Originally Posted by NewJerSpur

Ray Allen is average?

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average sized. above average everything else.

I was also wondering 'where is Oberto?' early in the game. My thoughts were that Pop didn't like the matchup with Boston's physical bigs, or liked KT and Gooden as more physical presences and Bonner for spacing. Oberto doesn't really seem to have a place in many games this year, with his declining skillset.

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Originally Posted by ducks

if finley hit hit those free throws
tp would have it his

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Now that truly is pathetic. So now you're blaming Michael cause TP choked? They both choked.

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Originally Posted by mexicanjunior

Garnett just came back from injury and didn't play at all in the 4th quarter, Ray Allen just came back from injury, Pierce shot uncharacteristically bad and they had no Leon Powe. I wouldn't consider Boston running on all cylinders...

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KG played 15 min and bring 10 pts 4 reb and 1 assist which is more than Manu I guess
Ray came back from injury but played 40 mn !!! bringing 19 points, I guess he was ok to play
Pierce shot bad but maybe for once we can give credit to spurs Defense
Powe is not a significant element of the equation.

Boston didn't run on all cylinders but that was more than SA : no manu/tim at 70% and gooden that played only 4 games with the spurs

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Originally Posted by VI_Massive

average sized. above average everything else.

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Just checking. I know I'm in the minority, but I think his length, quickness, and athleticism make up for his lack of height. You may have a problem against a guy like McGrady, but other that I would be okay having a second unit of he, Manu, and Mason....preferably with Manu running point or at least setting up the offense. The Hornets worked it pretty well with Paul and Pargo last season.

Powe is a big asset for Boston. It didn't show as much tonight becuase Moore and Big Baby played pretty well, but Powe is a force on the boards and low block.

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Originally Posted by VI_Massive

Great stuff. A few notes I have:

1. This back-up PG situation is getting ugly. When Parker isn't running the offense we are absolutely stagnant. We weren't great tonight anyway, but especially bad when others were handling the rock.

2. I think Hill is a great slasher and is able to finish well too. Why doesn't Pop use him off picks to attack the basket like Parker when TP's on the bench and we're not scoring? I know he's not as good as Tony, but he seems capable of driving and either finishing or kicking. Certainly more capable than Mason.

3. Speaking of Mason, I think I've fallen out of love with him. His great and clutch shooting earlier in the season were great, but now I'm seeing how he isn't a great defender, doesn't finish well, and doesn't do well as a ball handler. Am I nuts in thinking he's a glorified spot up shooter who is a liability when his shot isn't falling?

4. We really haven't shot well from 3 lately and its killing our offense. Do you think this is an anomaly? Are our stats from 3 going to fall back to earth now? Have teams figured out that this is how to guard us?

5. I like Gooden's energy and I think a lot of his defensive lapses will get better as he learns and becomes more comfortable in the system. That being said, I didn't see him get off a lot of good post moves. It seems he goes for that Garnett/Rasheed-esque fadeaway as his bread and butter. While its a pretty unblockable shot, its also low percentage. Other than that fadeaway the only other offense I've seen is some open jumpers and put backs. Is that all he has? Maybe he looked that way on the low block because of Boston's good D.

6. TP was really good at getting to the paint and they were unable to stop him for a while. He wouldn't be able to get there so easily against a Boston team with a healthy Garnett, right?

7. Finally, these guys got in each others' faces a bit here, especially Timmy and Perkins. It wasn't anything Knicks-Heat, but if they were to meet in the Finals, I think this game established enough of a history that it would be a very nasty, physical, contentious series. And if that happened, both teams have guys you can go to war with.

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Good post, good points !

:toast

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Originally Posted by Brazil

Powe is not a significant element of the equation.

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Would you consider the Spurs playing without Kurt Thomas to be significant? Powe averages more points and rebounds than him. For all we know, Garnett is playing at a less percentage than Duncan and that's possibly why he didn't play at all in the 4th quarter. I understand Manu is a huge loss but neither team was at 100%, so claiming a moral victory for not being blown out doesn't seem all that warranted.

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Originally Posted by Brazil

KG played 15 min and bring 10 pts 4 reb and 1 assist which is more than Manu I guess
Ray came back from injury but played 40 mn !!! bringing 19 points, I guess he was ok to play
Pierce shot bad but maybe for once we can give credit to spurs Defense
Powe is not a significant element of the equation.

Boston didn't run on all cylinders but that was more than SA : no manu/tim at 70% and gooden that played only 4 games with the spurs

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I think that's a fair assessment of the relative healthiness of both teams and who was hurt more by injuries.

Nevertheless, we still should have won this game. And it's not the injuries that got us, it was the third quarter and missing 6 free throws at the end that cost us this game. We could have and should have won it since the opportunity was there and that opportunity was there even with the injury situation. Since we had the opportunity and didn't capitalize on it, but actually threw it away, we have no excuses. This was a totally winnable game.

:bang

The Spurs won in the boxscores with the exception of the 3-point shooting w/c was hoorendous. Its been mentioned a lot that the Spurs have become a team that lives and dies by the 3-point shot and this night they died. So be it. What I've a harder time accepting is the 6 misses from the line.. hopefully its an aberration.

Anyway, the Spurs had their chances and they blew it plain and simple. Against a Boston team that was struggling. The spurs defense was sporadic.. good at times then suddenly giving up open looks to perimeter jumpshots.. this game lacked the thrill of the game in Boston somehow even though it was closely fought.. maybe I just miss the passion and excitement manu brings to the team.

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Originally Posted by NewJerSpur

Just checking. I know I'm in the minority, but I think his length, quickness, and athleticism make up for his lack of height. You may have a problem against a guy like McGrady, but other that I would be okay having a second unit of he, Manu, and Mason....preferably with Manu running point or at least setting up the offense. The Hornets worked it pretty well with Paul and Pargo last season.

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I agree about his length, etc. That's what makes him able to guard a guy like Allen who has 3-4 inches in height on Hill. But I think against someone a bit bigger like Kobe or even Manu, George could be vulnerable to being shot over and/or posted up. Not that he can't be part of a package of guys used to contain someone crazy like Kobe, but I don't think you can stick him on someone like that and just be confident with his ability like you would with Bruce. That being said, I think Hill has crazy defensive chops, seems to be picking up lots of tricks and stuff from Bowen, and can be great at guarding guys up to about 6'4"-5".

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Originally Posted by VI_Massive

I agree about his length, etc. That's what makes him able to guard a guy like Allen who has 3-4 inches in height on Hill. But I think against someone a bit bigger like Kobe or even Manu, George could be vulnerable to being shot over and/or posted up. Not that he can't be part of a package of guys used to contain someone crazy like Kobe, but I don't think you can stick him on someone like that and just be confident with his ability like you would with Bruce. That being said, I think Hill has crazy defensive chops, seems to be picking up lots of tricks and stuff from Bowen, and can be great at guarding guys up to about 6'4"-5".

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His defensive adaptation to the NBA game came faster than I could've dreamed, that's for sure. Once his jump shot catches up, LOOK OUT NBA!!

EDIT: Also Dallas got away with it with Terry and Harris.

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Originally Posted by NewJerSpur

His defensive adaptation to the NBA game came faster than I could've dreamed, that's for sure. Once his jump shot catches up, LOOK OUT NBA!!

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Agreed. You know they wouldn't have drafted him if he couldn't hack in on D, but it is better than we could have imagined. Plus he seems confident enough to play in crunch time with a veteran team that eats up the pressure (excepting tonight). He finishes at the rim, he flies high for rebounds. I just love it. I would love to see him get more looks offensively when Parker isn't on the court.

And you're right, when his jumper gets better (its already solid) he's going to be a handful.

His jumper's gotten a bit better, but it's still working its way toward solid....of course, it's true he doesn't really take enough shots to truly judge its consistency at this point though. As long as he keeps slashing, that's enough for the coming postseason.

good thoughts... I'm thinking that this RMJ @ point experiment will soon come to an end... hopefully it coincides with the return of ginobili

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Originally Posted by mexicanjunior

Garnett just came back from injury and didn't play at all in the 4th quarter, Ray Allen just came back from injury, Pierce shot uncharacteristically bad and they had no Leon Powe. I wouldn't consider Boston running on all cylinders...

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Well, at least we can say that we have already beat Boston with them running on all cylinders.

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Originally Posted by Thomas82

Well, at least we can say that we have already beat Boston with them running on all cylinders.

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It's too bad the Spurs haven't played at that level since...There is no guarantee they will with Duncan in worse health and Manu not guaranteed to return to form.

I'm guessing the hate Mike Fin fan club will be coming out soon?

My initial reaction

"What the fuck was that shit"

true story

Finley's general discouragers (the die hard ones that hate on him even with the season he's had compared to last year) will have to make room for the contingency posting Mason on their crap list.

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Originally Posted by timvp

-I liked how Pop was coaching until a fateful substitution in the fourth quarter. With four and a half minutes left in the game, he inexplicably put Finley into the game. Finley wasn't doing anything offensively and he came in and quickly made the offense worse.

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We've seen it all season. Frustrating doesn't even begin to describe how I feel about it. On the other hand, Mason was in brick-layer mode, so who's he gonna put in, Udoka?

For me the play of the game was Allen's steal and layup to end the first half. That's the kind of crafty veteran play we used to inflict on our opponents.

So, at this point in the season we're finding new ways to lose. Wonderful.

it was a good outing defensively. probably the only positive i can take from this game is that bowen seems to be rounding back into shape. pierce and allen were both held to low field goal percentages. other than that though, the spurs role players really dropped the ball offensively. both literally and figuratively.

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Originally Posted by Capt Bringdown

We've seen it all season. Frustrating doesn't even begin to describe how I feel about it. On the other hand, Mason was in brick-layer mode, so who's he gonna put in, Udoka?

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Mason was already in. I would have kept Bowen on the court. If not Bowen, then Hill. If not Hill, then Udoka. If not Udoka, then Manu in his suit.

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Originally Posted by Capt Bringdown

We've seen it all season. Frustrating doesn't even begin to describe how I feel about it. On the other hand, Mason was in brick-layer mode, so who's he gonna put in, Udoka?

For me the play of the game was Allen's steal and layup to end the first half. That's the kind of crafty veteran play we used to inflict on our opponents.

So, at this point in the season we're finding new ways to lose. Wonderful.

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That was flat-out inexcusable.:bang

He can remind you of Jack from time-to-time with his swagger and clutch shooting, unfortunately, he can also do the same with his careless/loose ball-handling and affinity for the turnover.

The other play that sticks out was the bullshit call between Tony and Ray.

Can anyone explain how Tony shoots the gap for a steal on Allen, to which there was no whistle blown, gets his hand on the ball and has clear sailing for an easy 2, only to hit the floor after being hit in the face (after Allen flailed looking for a call or in frustration of the steal) and then has the whistle blown and the foul assessed on him (Parker)?

I'm sitting there thinking the Spurs are about to go up 9 (maybe more if it was deemed a clear-path foul) but instead the Celtics get the ball, and all so predictably, a 3-point play immediately following the incident. I'm not going to sit here and blame the refs for the loss, afterall, the Spurs outplayed and had every opportunity to win this game had they made a damn shot outside of the paint or a free-throw, but there were a couple of momentum-swinging calls that had me thinking WTF?

Tony Parker couldn't hit a midrange jumper in that game.

He was 0/8 from 15+ feet.
He was 12/15 from 6- feet.

That could be an explanation for his awful FT shooting.

RuffnReadyOzStyle is the specialist of the TP jumper's form.
Maybe it was one of those games with the pre-Engelland form.

Never ever in my life had I seen a team miss 6 free throws in a row in the last minute of a tight game...NEVER....just one of those nights....

What a game, again TP did a great job, bowen and thomas too, but the rest? TP was the only one who gave everything of himself, and fought for this game. Tim missed almost every shot, he looks like he is going to collapse of tiredness and what is mason's problem, doing his solo actions when he cant. This is just sad.

Things need to improve, and improve fast, the playoffs are close and TP is getting tired too for carrying the whole team, i hope he can stick to this superstar level in the playoffs. He does need to be on the top list of the MVP candidates though.

Looking forward for Sunday, will it be different?

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Originally Posted by BLACKJACK21

The other play that sticks out was the bullshit call between Tony and Ray.

Can anyone explain how Tony shoots the gap for a steal on Allen, to which there was no whistle blown, gets his hand on the ball and has clear sailing for an easy 2, only to hit the floor after being hit in the face (after Allen flailed looking for a call or in frustration of the steal) and then has the whistle blown and the foul assessed on him (Parker)?

I'm sitting there thinking the Spurs are about to go up 9 (maybe more if it was deemed a clear-path foul) but instead the Celtics get the ball, and all so predictably, a 3-point play immediately following the incident.

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I saw something different. I saw Tony go hard at Allen and actually hit Allen in the face or neck initially. Then as Allen realizes that he's bit hit and is losing possession, he decides to give TP a little smack back to the face and they both end up getting hit. I may be totally wrong, but that was my interpretation of that little thing.

That thing was part of the nastiness that game developed. Tim and Perkins were battling down low and got in each other's face. You could tell after that encounter that they both wanted to guard the other and go at him each time offensively the rest of the game.

Then later, Gooden got tied up with someone down low and they had a little "wanna be startin' something?" moment.

Before it seemed like they were just two really good teams playing each other - not rivals really and marketed by the league as "the past two champs" - but now if they meet again they will have enough of a history to make it an absolute war.

I really don't understand all the meltdown after this game. Was the free throw debacle bad? Of course it was...but by the reaction of some posters here you'd think we got blown off the floor all night long.

Tony couldn't hit a jumper(or his FT's late), we bricked a bunch of wide open threes, Manu is in a suit and Gooden is still pretty green....AND WE STILL ALMOST WON. Take your heads our of your asses, all of you.

After a good night's rest, this loss is still really frustrating. This kind of choking-job at the line was very ugly.
Apart from that, the defense was pretty solid in that game and we nearly won despite not being able to hit anything from downtown. Timmy doesn't look comfortable at all and we can only pray that he gets better till April.
Mason was giving me the creeps as a backup PG; this guy just isn't good enough to do that, but with Manu hurt and George playing the 2, there is no other player available (except for Jacque Vaughn, but, well ...).

This must be a devastating loss for the guys and they will be really fired up for Sunday.

Like Pop said we need to worry about things we can control.

He can't control the healthy status of Manu and TD but he can control the situation of the backup PG.

Mason SUCKS at backup PG. His ball handling isn't good and he holds the ball so much looking for a screen and his shot that stagnates the offense and nobody else get involved.

Like timvp said since moving to SG Hill is doing a fantastic job concentrating on D but I rather see him as a PG again

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Originally Posted by crc21209

Never ever in my life had I seen a team miss 6 free throws in a row in the last minute of a tight game...NEVER....just one of those nights....

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Well Nick Anderson missed 4 FTs in the closing minutes vs the Rockets in their championship series.. he was never able to recover from that debacle and neither have the Magic. Fortunately Tony can make up for it in upcoming games.

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Originally Posted by timaios

Tony Parker couldn't hit a midrange jumper in that game.

He was 0/8 from 15+ feet.
He was 12/15 from 6- feet.

That could be an explanation for his awful FT shooting.

RuffnReadyOzStyle is the specialist of the TP jumper's form.
Maybe it was one of those games with the pre-Engelland form.

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Good point.

His shot was off tonight. the good thing is he still managed to find a way to score and be our leader on offense where almost all his teamates sucked again. we use to say that Tony is average when his J's is off, that was not the case tonight.

though, those missed clutched FT made this game a disappointing one for Tony.

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Originally Posted by Spurs Brazil

Like Pop said we need to worry about things we can control.

He can't control the healthy status of Manu and TD but he can control the situation of the backup PG.

Mason SUCKS at backup PG. His ball handling isn't good and he holds the ball so much looking for a screen and his shot that stagnates the offense and nobody else get involved.

Like timvp said since moving to SG Hill is doing a fantastic job concentrating on D but I rather see him as a PG again

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Actually Hill looks to have developed some comfort at SG right now, so I'd rather him go back to Vaughn at backup PG and leave Hill at SG with the second unit. At least Vaughn can initiate the offense and not dribble around until the shot clock has 10 seconds left on it...plus he is a good defender and can guard the other teams point while Hill guards the two guard.

Isn't this why we kept Vaughn anyway?

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Originally Posted by timaios

Tony Parker couldn't hit a midrange jumper in that game.

He was 0/8 from 15+ feet.
He was 12/15 from 6- feet.

That could be an explanation for his awful FT shooting.

RuffnReadyOzStyle is the specialist of the TP jumper's form.
Maybe it was one of those games with the pre-Engelland form.

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he had no legs he was tired
his last free throw was very short

Thanks so much for the effort and thought you put into these posts. Much appreciated!

THis game once again demonstrated what I've been saying:

THE MASON PG EXPERIMENT HAS FAILED!!! :bang

I really hope that this is just a temporary arrangement until Ginobili comes back.

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Originally Posted by SequSpur

parker isn't running the offense.. he is doing everything because the rest of his cast sucks.

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Everything except for making freethrows that could've won his team the game.

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Originally Posted by VI_Massive

I saw something different. I saw Tony go hard at Allen and actually hit Allen in the face or neck initially. Then as Allen realizes that he's bit hit and is losing possession, he decides to give TP a little smack back to the face and they both end up getting hit. I may be totally wrong, but that was my interpretation of that little thing.

That thing was part of the nastiness that game developed. Tim and Perkins were battling down low and got in each other's face. You could tell after that encounter that they both wanted to guard the other and go at him each time offensively the rest of the game.

Then later, Gooden got tied up with someone down low and they had a little "wanna be startin' something?" moment.

Before it seemed like they were just two really good teams playing each other - not rivals really and marketed by the league as "the past two champs" - but now if they meet again they will have enough of a history to make it an absolute war.

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Whether Tony fouled him or not, wasn't really the point I was trying to get at. The fact is, it was a big momentum/point-swing in the critical first 5 minutes or so of the 3rd quarter. A point in the game that usually goes a long way in deciding the outcome.

The bullshit I referred to, was the foul not being called until Tony had clear sailing and the official being forced to make a call when Tony hit the floor. If it was a foul on Tony, why did the whistle not blow until the possession essentially had changed hands? I suppose I'd just like to see refs make the call if and when they actually see the foul.

It was just one of a few questionable calls that were costly for the Spurs (Tim getting fouled and/or the ball being knocked out of bounds from him by Big Baby, that inevitably winded up in a Celtics score after winning possession of the cop-out jumpball call, being another) but nothing I'm going to blame for the loss after witnessing some of the worst shooting (3-point. mid-range, and free-throw) by this Spurs team in a long damn time.

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Originally Posted by benefactor

I really don't understand all the meltdown after this game. Was the free throw debacle bad? Of course it was...but by the reaction of some posters here you'd think we got blown off the floor all night long.

Tony couldn't hit a jumper(or his FT's late), we bricked a bunch of wide open threes, Manu is in a suit and Gooden is still pretty green....AND WE STILL ALMOST WON. Take your heads our of your asses, all of you.

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You're one of a handful of posters that I usually seem to be on the same page with, but there's really no moral victory to be had from this loss. The Spurs did just about everything they needed to do to win this game, yet still lost. It's the type a game you expect from mediocre to bad teams, finding a way to lose, not win.

The only thing that's leaving me with any hope, big picture, is that I honestly believe the talent and toughness is there for this team to win a championship. If they could just get "whole" and get to see this teams true potential come to fruition, I'd love this teams chances. Even with a dinged up Duncan, if Manu and Tony are right? I feel pretty comfortable that Tim can play a big enough role that his injury wouldn't be as devastaing with the amount of talent surrounding him on this incarnation of the Spurs.

The Boston game was basically just a microcosm of what has been an overall pretty frustrating season.

I was pleased with this game because of our FG% defense. We are now 8th in the league in FG% defense.

With all of our health problems this season, to be 2nd in the league in PPG allowed, 8th in FG% defense, and 2nd best record in the West as of March 21? We'll take it.

With our ability to hold opponents to such low scoring, all we need in the postseason is for Bonner, Mason, Parker, and Manu to get hot from the field at the right times. TD will be there postseason, always has been...the Spurs are the favorites to win the championship.

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Originally Posted by BLACKJACK21

The Boston game was basically just a microcosm of what has been an overall pretty frustrating season.

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I can't really label this season as frustrating. Unless what you are labeling the injuries as frustrating.

The actual play has been about as good as could be expected considering that Ginobili has missed most of the season and both TD and TP have also missed games with injury. If you told me the injury woes the Spurs would face before the season, I'd think there'd be no way to get the second seed.

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Originally Posted by PDXSpursFan

THE MASON PG EXPERIMENT HAS FAILED!!! :bang

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Eh, it's just more proof that Pop can't coach backup point guards. Mason was actually pretty damn good as a starter earlier in the season. He was also really good as a point guard when with the Wizards.

But Pop just doesn't seem to understand that you can't yank around the backup point guard and expect them to produce consistently. If you destroy the confidence of the backup point guard, there's not enough time on the court to regain that confidence. As a result, you get that neutered type of play we saw out of Mason last night.

Pop needs to pick either Mason or Hill and just let them play. Micromanaging their every possession and benching them after mistakes is just going to result in a creating yet another failed backup point guard.

Then Spurs fans can come tell timvp that he's wrong and that Pop just hasn't spent enough money on a backup or whatever excuse they use to pretend his obvious coaching weakness doesn't exist :rolleyes

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Originally Posted by timvp

I can't really label this season as frustrating. Unless what you are labeling the injuries as frustrating.

The actual play has been about as good as could be expected considering that Ginobili has missed most of the season and both TD and TP have also missed games with injury. If you told me the injury woes the Spurs would face before the season, I'd think there'd be no way to get the second seed.

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Frusrtating, is frustrating.

Yeah, the effort and defense wasn't frustrating, but losing games (as opposed to being beaten/feeling you've been beaten) is almost as frustrating as the injuries and inability to get a read on what this teams true potential is.

Yes, the season has been frustrating because of injuries and the inabilty to see this team at full-strength. I read your response as saying, "I can't really label this loss (Boston game) as being frustrating." My bad.:toast

Oh and the answer isn't Jacque Vaughn. He's decent during the regular season but he's a huge liability in the playoffs. Especially since the Spurs will likely need scoring, athleticism and energy with the Big Three not being the Big Three of the past, Vaughn just doesn't fit the needs.

The best part about Vaughn is that he doesn't let Pop affect his confidence or tenacity ... but his skill level has regressed to the point that he's not a championship level player anymore.

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Originally Posted by BLACKJACK21

Frusrtating, is frustrating.

Yeah, the effort and defense wasn't frustrating, but losing games (as opposed to being beaten/feeling you've been beaten) is almost as frustrating as the injuries and inability to get a read on what this teams true potential is.

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I don't know, to me the Spurs have stolen about the same amount of games they should have lost as they have given away that they should have won. When the Spurs have been in survival mode for most of the season, "frustrated" doesn't describe how I feel about the Spurs currently having the second seed.

But maybe that's just me . . .

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Originally Posted by timvp

Oh and the answer isn't Jacque Vaughn. He's decent during the regular season but he's a huge liability in the playoffs. Especially since the Spurs will likely need scoring, athleticism and energy with the Big Three not being the Big Three of the past, Vaughn just doesn't fit the needs.

The best part about Vaughn is that he doesn't let Pop affect his confidence or tenacity ... but his skill level has regressed to the point that he's not a championship level player anymore.

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Very well said.:tu

Yeah, when he comes in? He looks and acts like a "player", but then you see him try to finish around the rim or taking shots (that would be good shots for most) that are ill-advised coming from him.

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Originally Posted by timvp

I don't know, to me the Spurs have stolen about the same amount of games they should have lost as they have given away that they should have won. When the Spurs have been in survival mode for most of the season, "frustrated" doesn't describe how I feel about the Spurs currently having the second seed.

But maybe that's just me . . .

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I can't look at standings or where the Spurs are seeding-wise, and take any solice. It's just the way I am. Everything I look at is with an eye at the big picture.

Is it suprising, or pretty noteworthy, how they've been able to achieve the 2 seed this late in the year? Absolutely.

Does having the 2 seed really make me feel all that more optimistic about winning the championship if the Lakers are the 1 seed? Not so much.

I agree that the Spurs have had their fair share of fortune this year, and maybe being frustrated isn't something most fans should feel, but it is what it is when you follow a championship-caliber team day-in-day-out for a number of years so closely.

I'm spoiled like most...

It's championship or bust.:lobt2:

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Originally Posted by SpursDynasty

I was pleased with this game because of our FG% defense. We are now 8th in the league in FG% defense.

With all of our health problems this season, to be 2nd in the league in PPG allowed, 8th in FG% defense, and 2nd best record in the West as of March 21? We'll take it.

With our ability to hold opponents to such low scoring, all we need in the postseason is for Bonner, Mason, Parker, and Manu to get hot from the field at the right times. TD will be there postseason, always has been...the Spurs are the favorites to win the championship.

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You're dumb

No more time for moral victories. The Spurs failed to execute down the stretch and lost a game they needed at home.

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Originally Posted by timvp

But Pop just doesn't seem to understand that you can't yank around the backup point guard and expect them to produce consistently. If you destroy the confidence of the backup point guard, there's not enough time on the court to regain that confidence. As a result, you get that neutered type of play we saw out of Mason last night.

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I agree, and I think that you're on to something here. Pop's mishandling leads to "nuetered play," which must contribute in some way to our infamous offensive droughts. Players start worrying about not making mistakes instead of playing the game. Negativity in other words.

I guess there's some fields of work where micro-management is necessary...I certainly hope my airline pilot is a stickler for details. But in general I don't think it's a very productive approach for most things in life, including basketball.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Mason was already in. I would have kept Bowen on the court. If not Bowen, then Hill. If not Hill, then Udoka. If not Udoka, then Manu in his suit.

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That point really confused me, too. Finley coming in for Bowen. And the O promptly went south. I sure wish we could get an explaination from Pop about why he puts Finley on the court in these situations, especially when he isn't having aparticularly good game as he was against Boston. Is it his inability to trust the younger players and/or his "vet" preference? I dunno but it is frustrating at times to see Finley trot out late 4th Q when he isn't having a good game that night. I would think it best to let him finish out on the bench rather than have him out there bricking it up.

This one really hurt since I would probably bet that in most games like this we would get the W. I can't see TP and Finley going 0-6 in the last couple of minutes ever again. I was jsut amazed that they shot that way.

Our D seems to be picking up lately and probably due in no small way to Bowen's reappearance. I agree with you Timvp that is seems that Pop is still experimenting with the finishing lineups. Hopefully by playoff time he will have made a decision about who can finish out these types of games.

I still have faith in this team but it is being severely tested at times.

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