My bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
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My bad.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
I agree with this.
Parker
Manu/Mason
Gooden
Duncan
Bowen
2nd team
Hill
Finley
thomas/oberto
udoka, bonner, vaughn sell beer.
That lineup has a good balance.Quote:
Originally Posted by SequSpur
But currently starting Bowen makes no sense. The offense will become stagnant with:
Parker
Mason
Bowen
Duncan
Bonner
Mason can't create on his own. God knows Bonner and Bowen aren't gonna create on their own. And Duncan is banged up. Finley can't create on his own either, but he give you another option from midrange. Not to mention, if anyone has watched finley over the last two seasons you realize that Finley has trouble getting into a rhythm when coming off the bench.
I agree. I think taking Finley out of the starter's role takes him pretty much out of the game. If you want anything from him, he needs to start. I think Bruce can be more effective coming off the bench than Finley. That being said, I'd like to see Bowen get more minutes and I think he will in the playoffs, except against LA, when we need as much scoring on the floor as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by __JaG__
We need Bruce's defense against LA. He's our best perimeter defender still and can still hit open shots at the same efficiency as he's always had. If we are going to play in June Bruce will need to be a big part of it. He's been through war time and time again and has always came through. We have always won by defense. That's why I'm not giving in on some of y'alls Mike D'Antoni ways of thinking and choosing offense over defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by VI_Massive
To some of y'all who are worried about how much offense our role players bring:
Our offense is up to Tony, Tim, and Manu getting in the lane and converting at a high percentage. If those three can get inside it will open up everything for our shooters. If they can't get inside then we will be in trouble and will have to rely on taking contested jumpshots most likely at the latter end of the shot clock.
And another thing, when our offense sputters its not because of the role players. It's because of Tim, Tony, and Manu relying on the jump shot too much or over dribbling which Manu and Tony can be guilty of at times.
Trying to justify on which role player should start for offense is irrelevant. When all of them basically bring one thing to the table effectively and efficiently and thats just spot up shooting.
Manu isn't playing. Tim isn't Tim. Tony can only do so much.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
"Trying to justify on which role player should start for offense is irrelevant. "
The Spurs have always counted on different role players to step up, so i'm not sure how it's irrelevant.
In past seasons with a healthy Tim and Manu the Spurs could get away with starting Bruce...this is not the case this season. Sending Finley to the bench practically makes him nonexistent. And considering he and/or RMJ can throw in 15 pts on any given night, taking him out of the lineup does not increase our chances against a high scoring team like the Lakers.
I realize Bowen played well the other day, but playing him 30 mpg is not the answer to all the Spurs problems. I'm all for Bowen getting more minutes...but only when the matchups call for it.
I agree our D has to be tough or we have no shot and I think Pop has been trying a balancing act of injecting more offense while keeping the D strong. To achieve this he's been starting and playing more offensively-oriented players like Finley and Bonner and trying to squeeze as much D out of them as he can while bring the shut down D guys off the bench.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
I think the problem with Bowen playing heavy minutes against LA is that it allows whoever is guarding him (likely Kobe) to cheat off and double elsewhere or play the passing lanes for steals. They can and will leave Bruce alone until he hits a number of the open shots he'll have, and this may or may not happen. Against LA I think we have to play 5 guys who have to be guarded so we aren't giving LA an extra defender to roam around and strip Timmy, snag passes etc.
Bruce obviously needs to play some against LA, but they will leave open someone whose offense they don't respect and this will hurt us by improving their weakness -- defense.
The other thing is that Bowen can't shut down Kobe (no one can) like he did Pierce the other night. If Kobe's going to get his anyway, and Bruce's presence on the floor will allow LA to basically have an extra defender on the court, its tough to justify his minutes.
Exactly. Bowen was killer against Boston because he can shut down Pierce and they really struggle to score without Pierce. In other situations, he's not as useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by __JaG__
Let's all be honest here. The solution of all solutions will be a 90-100 percent Manu, Tim and Tony.Quote:
Originally Posted by __JaG__
You brought up a good point on how Finley and Mason could give us 15 points on any given night. I understand Bruce can't do that as much. But I do think some of that has to do with Bruce having a tighter shot selection. I think if Manu Tim and Tony get inside the defense Bruce can easily give us 12-15 points by soley spot up shooting. Let's agree Finley and Mason's shot selection can be shaky every other game.
And I'll tell you this. Against the Lakers ( which is most of my opinion is aimed against) they will hedge or go over on the pick and roll for Mason and make him try to penetrate. I guarantee you the open looks you see Mason getting against the inferior teams in the league being lazy and going under on the pick and roll WON'T be there against the Lakers/ Cavs/ Celtics. If they are it will only happen very very few times. That's why I say justifying on which role players could bring more offense is irrelevant against great teams.
But Mason is a guy who has to be guarded. LA simply won't guard Bowen and his guy will wander and help like they did on Rondo in last year's finals. They'll do this until Bowen hits several shots and that may or may not happen. But Mason and Finley both have to be guarded.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
I think this is what has to happen against the Lakers if we want to win regardless of which role player should see the floor.
- Health
- Limit their second chance opportunities. Meaning REBOUND.
- No Small ball
- Force Kobe baseline on side pick and rolls. Not middle.
- Get in the paint offensively
- Play the drive on Odom, meaning play off him and try to make him shoot.
I notice this too whenever Kobe is guarding Bowen on the weakside of the ball. Especially when a long skip pass to the corner is the only solution to keep Kobe honest. But if you watch Kobe he usually always plays that way when he's guarding a guy off the ball especially when he's on the weakside. It's not just Bowen. But I do understand what your saying.Quote:
Originally Posted by VI_Massive
Obviously a lot of things have to go right for the Spurs to have a chance against the Lakers. But finding the best way to get the most production from your role players is one of those things. I just don't see a scenario where starting Bowen gives the Spurs a better chance to win with the players they have available right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
Well I think having your best perimeter defender on Kobe and making him work for every shot will help your chances. I mean since Kobe takes the most shots for the Lakers. I think that makes some sense.
I agree...that's why he should get increased minutes against Kobe. But taking Finley out of the series by not starting him makes absolutely no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
Quote:
Originally Posted by __JaG__
Just because he's not starting doesn't mean Finley all of a sudden will become a horrid shooter and inferior contributor. There's a lot of times Finley starts and lays an egg out there. So saying how Finley needs to start in order for him to make shots doesn't really make sense in my eyes. Finley wouldn't be taking out of the series either he would still get 25 minutes a game.
Wrong.
I couldn't disagree more. Bowen can start ahead of Finley and Michael can produce off the bench. He just hasn't been on the bench long enough to show that he can do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by VI_Massive
If you want to keep starting Finley I guess it can still work only if Bruce gets a lot more minutes than he has been getting earlier this season.
Finley hasn't been on the bench that long. I think he is comfortable enough now to do it. Usually Pop would have him on the bench and the he'd quickly start him again because he thought he wasn't producing enough. Finley has gone on longer droughts where he's been starting and Pop let him work through them.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
I think with Manu and Gooden, Finley off the bench will work.
As far as Bowen I do believe Pop has been saving his legs for the stretch run his court time will stat to increase, and while most won't agree if Hill isn't ready to contribute as the back up PG Vaugh needs to be implemented in the rotation because the Mason at PG isn't workin. And as far as starting line ups I'm gonna say Parker, Mason, Bowen, Thomas, and Franchise. With a second unit of Hill, Ginobili, Finley, Gooden, and Oberto. With Bonner seeing time when it is a favorable match up.
+ 1Quote:
Originally Posted by crc21209
you can replace Mason with finley, but having KT with Bowen in the starting five is a good thing IMO. don't let the opponent get hot in the beginning of the game. Tony usually scores a lot in the first too. good way to start a game, with manu waiting to provide his usual offense from the bench.
To end the game:
Tony/Manu/Tim are a lock and Bowen should be there most of the time. and even if he seems the weaker big of the team this year, i wouldn't mind Oberto in clutch time. He knows that kind of situation and alwayd responded well.
Most of people trust in new guys. i still think bowen or oberto knows how to wim better than any of them.
I agree with you anyone but Bonner starting in the Playoffs, I said something about Bonner not starting a week ago and they lock the thread. But its good to see that I am not the only one that wants to see Bonner getting less minutes and Bowen, Kurt and Thomas picking up a few more minutes in the playoffs. I think in the playoffs your big man should be down low get dirty, physical giving hard fouls, and rebounding not running out on the wing to shoot 3's.Quote:
Originally Posted by loveforthegame
I don't think it matters if Bowen starts or comes off the bench as long as he gets a lot more minutes during the playoffs which I hope he does. As for Manu I don't know how much I really like even Manu coming off the bench anymore. After coming off an injury plagued season like this I think I'd prefer him to start and play with Tim and Tony as much as possible. Knowing Manu and how he plays he's going to come off the bench and try to do too much thinking he needs to do it all and either make a lot of mistakes (like the last time he came back from injury) or risk another injury again. I think he needs to start playing with Tim and Tony more and let the game come back to him instead of over doing it.