Harvey: Think They Could Use Him? Scola Trade Becomes A Facial

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Originally Posted by Capt Bringdown

Exactly. Championships as in plural.
F'n tragic.

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But...the Spurs managed to win another championship w/o Scola's services....and get to the WCF as well. It's really hard to say whether the Spurs would've won more or the same amount of championships even if they had Scola.

But I, of course, would've picked Scola over Bonner....:)

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

That trade cost us championships. Period.

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I hope not. I don't think Scola would help the Spurs that much. Especially against the Lakers.

However, it's hard not to notice that the Spurs' most bold feats of hubris (giving away Scola and drafting Mahinmi when no one else had him in the 1st round) occurred right after championships were won. In the heady summers of '05 and '07.

Were the Spurs too giddy with their own success? Too careless in their conviction that they could do no wrong?

The future will tell.

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Originally Posted by timvp

And oh yeah, that trade has turned out worse than I imagined. And at the time I thought it was the worst trade in franchise history.

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Please let whottt know, because he respects your b-ball opinion (as opposed to my opinion, which he wipes his ass with)

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Originally Posted by Russ

However, it's hard not to notice that the Spurs' most bold feats of hubris (giving away Scola and drafting Mahinmi when no one else had him in the 1st round) occurred right after championships were won. In the heady summers of '05 and '07.

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07 really sticks out in my mind. A turning point, perhaps.

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Originally Posted by smeagol

Please let whottt know, because he respects your b-ball opinion (as opposed to my opinion, which he wipes his ass with)

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And theres a saying that goes like 'If opinions were assholes..'

Something nobody has mentioned is the effect scola had on Carl Landry. Landry was drafted on second round, for which he was pissed. Then he was not guaranteed to start because of Scola. So he had to prove himself. Now if Scola was not a leave your teeth on the floor kind of player the Argentinians are known for, Landry would not have to work hard and try to prove himself every game. Scola makes other people around him work hard, just like Manu and Tim. You think Parker would have developed the same way on another team? When Scola goes to the bench Landry comes in for him, and other teams get no rest, because he does not let up. Scola or Landry are not a Tim Duncan, and there is no Duncan coming anytime soon in the draft. Duncan is the kind of player you won't see for a long time. Having said that the Rockets really needed a power forward, why the Spurs gave them one again is something for you Spur fans to :bang . The combination of Scola and Landry give the Rockets a combination of about 25 to 30 points a game, and about 20 to 25 rebounds a game. Scola or Landry are no Tim Duncan, but together they put up some prime time Duncan numbers. In Houston they are called Scolandry. If they can solve their McGrady Yao health issues, Artest doesn't go postal, and Aaron Brooks turns into a decent point guard, they will be in business

Scolandry? Gives you an idea of how highly regarded they are for people who don't follow the Rockets. I will pay more attention to that next time the Rockets play.

Good to have actual insight instead of just network talking heads rhetoric. I haven't seen any mention of that from ESPN etc..

That's kinda neat, other teams fans giving out nuggets of info that show affection for their guys.

the name of this article/thread LOL

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

What a great fucking trade. Props to all the Holt Catsuckers who loved that fucking trade.

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Originally Posted by smeagol

Please let whottt know, because he respects your b-ball opinion (as opposed to my opinion, which he wipes his ass with)

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I have a different argument with him...don't get me wrong, he's wrong too, but he's just wrong about something diffferent.

His complaint has always been they didn't get a good enough deal...and then he fails to provide proof better deals were turne down whilst clinging to inane trade ideas...


You see, timvp is upset the Spurs didn't trade Scola to Cleveland, he thought that would have been a better deal.

I tell him the same thing I've always said..show me these better deals that were turned down. And why are they better deals?

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Originally Posted by whottt

I have a different argument with him...don't get me wrong, he's wrong too, but he's just wrong about something diffferent.

His complaint has always been they didn't get a good enough deal...and then he fails to provide proof better deals were turne down whilst clinging to inane trade ideas...


You see, timvp is upset the Spurs didn't trade Scola to Cleveland, he thought that would have been a better deal.

I tell him the same thing I've always said..show me these better deals that were turned down. And why are they better deals?

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Our disagreement ended when you admitted to the trade being a bad one. I didn't have to go any further after you conceded that point.

I wonder what Barry says if Scola misses the layup, or if Tony makes his......:rolleyes

I and also some others here keeps try to explain to NBA American fans that stats in Europe is not same thing as they are in NBA. So many Spurs fans cannot understand this. They keep say thing like "5 rebounds in Europe means player will suck in NBA" and such.

This same arguments keeps come up EVERY TIME someone suggest a player from Europe, just as same case with Scola where Spurs fans really did believe 6 rebounds per game in Euroleague mean this will be really poor rebounder in NBA. Without even understand that 6 rebounds in Euroleague is like 9-10 rebounds in NBA.

Same with assists. No matter how many time this is explain here fans do not believe it. But in Europe an assist is only count if a player score directly on pass. So think of this way, most assists that players like Paul, Nash, Kidd, Stockton and such players gets in NBA will never even be count in Europe.

Also points. So many fans keeps says dumb things like "12 points in Euroleague = 3 points in NBA" but this is stupid. Teams only average 75 points so how can 12 points be same thing as in NBA? Games are much slower and much shorter.

But I and some others here have said this so many times and we never get anywhere and instead we just get insults and call bad names and attacked by others here for say such things. As can see by discussions with Scola Spurs fans need to learn some things about game in Europe. This is prove by how any time a fan bring up a good player in Europe for Spurs they are always attack after some idiots looks up there stats in Europe.

I will show you idiots how foolish you look. I will use Panathinaikos team all time stats as example here for this stats lesson since Panathinaikos team is rank by FIBA Europe as #1 best Euroleague team of last 20 years history. So we will see how best team in Europe in last 20 years has in all history in this same period each best player for stats.

Best career scorers per game in history of Panathinaikos

1. Dejan Bodiroga 18.6
2. Vassilis Spanoulis 12.2
3. Jaka Lakovic 12.1
4. Ibrahim Kutluay 11.4
5. Mike Batiste 10.7
6. Antonis Fotsis 10.1
7. Daryl Middleton 8.7
8. Dimitris Diamantidis 8.6
9. Fragiskos Alvertis 8.3
10. Johnny Rogers 7.9

best career assists per game in history of Panathinaikos

1. Vassilis Spanoulis 3.6
2. Dimitris Diamantidis 3.6
3. Dejan Bodiroga 3.1
4. Jaka Lakovic 2.6
5. Giorgos Kalaitzis 1.7
6. Nikos Hatzivrettas 1.2
7. Ibrahim Kutluay 1.0
8. Kostas Tsartsaris 1.0
9. Johnny Rogers 0.9
10. Antonis Fotsis 0.9

best career rebounds per game in history of Panathinaikos

1. Mike Batiste 5.5
2. Dejan Bodiroga 5.1
3. Antonis Fotsis 4.5
4. Dimitris Diamantidis 4.4
5. Kostsas Tsartsaris 4.1
6. Darryl Middleton 3.6
7. Dimos Dikoudis 2.9
8. Johnny Rogers 2.5
9. Ibrahim Kutluay 2.2
10. Fragiskos Alvertis 2.1

As you can see even in team that has been in the last 20 years the best team in Europe, even in such club as this these are the stats. Even as can see players like Dimitris Diamantidis and Dejan Bodiroga with all their MVP awards and even Diamantidis was vote best player in Europe once, you can see their stats here, Diamantidis winning best European player award and his stats is 8 points, 4 rebounds, and 4 assists.

So PLEASE from now on when someone explain to you like how Bourousis gets 7-8 rebounds in Europe in one of biggest Euroleague clubs please understand this means he is an incredible rebounder, instead of same crap like "that means he will get 2 rebounds in NBA". Just like how idiots never could learn about Scola.

And please try understand that also stats in Europe is not like same as in NBA like in NBA any stats from same league is use as example. In Europe cannot do that. You cannot use stats from small or even middle size clubs and think is same thing as big size Euroleague clubs. A player can get 15 points and 5 assists in a small Euroleague club and will not even make the roster of a big Euroleague club. Or a player will get 15 points and 3 assists in a middle size Euroleague club and will be lucky to make even active roster of a big Euroleague club.

And no way in hell can you compare stats from leagues like Spain and Italy and such to Euroleague. But all the time we see here fans is always doing this. Like how players is having such stats in Italy or whatever. Is nonsense.

You must look at players that are in the big Euroleague clubs and then understand what these stats mean. As you can already see player like Luis Scola. Scola in his career in big Euroleague club TAU was 15.4 PPG and 5.9 RPG

Spurs fans kept believe such nonsense as 15 and 6 Euroleague player from big club = 6 and 2 NBA player :rolleyes But as you can see even in NBA playoffs Scola was 14 and 9 player as a rookie.

You need to learn about the stats difference between NBA and big Euroleague clubs before you keep say all this same crap here all the time. Just like in Bourousis thread people are say same retarded shit.

Just look at Tiago Splitter in TAU (a big Euroleague club) his career numbers is 9.8 PPG and 4.7 RPG 10 and 5 player. So stats is NOT the same as in NBA. Same thing with Vassilis Spanoulis as you can see 12 and 4 type of point guard in a big Euroleague club is the best guard numbers in the history of the best European club of the last 20 years. Yet so many fans here says these are "bad stats".

I am hope now that after Luis Scola situation that Spurs fans will finally understand this that you can see what 15 and 6 player Luis Scola in big Euroleague club can do in NBA. And maybe this will also show some of you how things some of you say to posters like me and some others here is so retarded.

Just because Scola made it in the league doesn't mean that Vagisilouououous could have done the same.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Our disagreement ended when you admitted to the trade being a bad one.


I didn't have to go any further after you conceded that point.

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You still need to prove they turned down better offers...the main reason I consider the trade bad is because Splitter effed us.


If anyone remembers, I wanted to trade Scola for Nocioni...Scola being exactly what the Bulls needed and Nocioni being very much what the Spurs needed...

Unfortunately Paxon was an idiot. But if you can show me they could have done that trade and didn't...I'll be as pissed as everyone else is.

Outside of that...I'm glad he's not in Cleveland...because LeBron doesn't need much.


It may be a bad trade...that doesn't mean it wasn't the best deal the Spurs could get. Butler's salary wasn't that huge of an obstacle.

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Originally Posted by whottt

You still need to prove they turned down better offers...the main reason I consider the trade bad is because Splitter effed us.


If anyone remembers, I wanted to trade Scola for Nocioni...Scola being exactly what the Bulls needed and Nocioni being very much what the Spurs needed...

Unfortunately Paxon was an idiot. But if you can show me they could have done that trade and didn't...I'll be as pissed as everyone else is.

Outside of that...I'm glad he's not in Cleveland...because LeBron doesn't need much.


It may be a bad trade...that doesn't mean it wasn't the best deal the Spurs could get. Butler's salary wasn't that huge of an obstacle.

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Doing nothing would have been better than the trade. Splitter would be starting for the Spurs right now.

There's no reason for me to have to prove there was a better trade when calling Scola's bluff like I said to do from the beginning was a much better option than gifting him to the Rockets.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Doing nothing would have been better than the trade. Splitter would be starting for the Spurs right now.

There's no reason for me to have to prove there was a better trade when calling Scola's bluff like I said to do from the beginning was a much better option than gifting him to the Rockets.

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Depends on if you consider the Rockets a championship contender...and I don't. I consider them IR contenders.

Cleveland OTOH, since we had just met them in the finals and their weakest link was Drew Gooden...that would have been a bad trade, and at the time that was a trade you were touting.

The FO made a bigger mistake (ie the trade) to cover up for a smaller mistake (ie signing Butler).

Things to think about. Had the Spurs signed Pryzbilla or Mohammed in 2006 then they would've been stuck paying the lux tax for the 2007-08 season. Then I guess they'd just have wished Scola well playing through the prime of his career with Tau.

One wonders which front office member pushed for that trade. Pop has bitched about it publicly. Then again, Pop did call out Peter when it appeared the Spurs were going to let Tony hit the open market over a relatively small amount during his extension negotiations. Of course, that could've simply been a case of good cop, bad cop on the part of the Spurs.

The amusing thing is the Spurs could very well be creating cap flexibility in 2010 for a run at....Scola.

What really compounded the fuckup that was the lux tax motivated trade was the drafting of Splitter.

To me it's a matter of getting something rather than nothing for Scola....some feel giving him to the Rockets was a horrible trade and we'd have been better off getting nothing...

I say that's only true if the Rockets end up eliminating us from the playoffs or winning a championship.

In lieu of that, the Spurs got something rather than nothing.

I think it's a definite possibility that they faced the prospect of losing Scola, and could not get better offers for him.

If you want to rip the Spurs for not knowing how to generate interest from other teams in their players...

Take a number...the FO always has had that problem and still does, and it's simply because if Pop plays a guy he wants to keep him and if he doesn't play him he wants to move him and the other teams know that and repect Pop so they imediately become suspicious of why Pop is willing to part with them.

In the case of Scola...everyone knew of the contentious relationship between the FO and Scola, and the Spurs probably were actively shopping him and it hurt the interest in Scola.

Pop's not a salesman...it's just the way it is, and no one's perfect.

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

The amusing thing is the Spurs could very well be creating cap flexibility in 2010 for a run at....Scola.

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With all due respect . . .

I would submit . . .

in the interest of fairness . . .

as an opposing view . . .

Hell will freeze over :wow:wow:wow(so to speak) before the Spurs go after Scola in FA . . . :wow

First, he's overrated.

Second, he's overrated.

Third, the Spurs hate him.

Fourth, he hates the Spurs.

Fifth, even Manu and Fab don't like him that much.

(That last one was just a hunch). :)

Yet, the Spurs were willing to grant him the opportunity to play in the league, albeit for another franchise.

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Originally Posted by The_Profesor

^^Let say we can't win another championship again(I cross my fingers)in a long time, and the Rockets get out of the POs 1st round or they even get to the WCFs but they don't win a championship with Scola.
You wouldn't regret it to see him with the Rockets instead of being helping us winning a title??
c´mon man,get out of that closet already.!!!

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I'm not in any closet, you're from Argentina, you over-rate Scola because he is also from Argentina, you are angry about this trade mostly because you are an Argentine and so is Scola.

This is the reality here..

The other segment of people bitching about this are card carrying members of the grass is greener club...

These are the ones that rationalize signing Charles Manson if he had ever started for Mike D'antoni, Don Nelson or Rick Adelman. Then they'll be the first in line to say how badly he sucks once he's not getting minutes because Pop won't play him...for whatever reason.

This is the reality of this tradem, this is why people bitch and continue to bitch..

And no, I will never see things from their POV...the dominating emotions of the scola suckers are pride(Argentine) and envy(Grass is always greener club).







I couldn't careless if Scola makes the playoffs and it won't hurt.


And the Rockets ought to be able to make it out of the first round at some point if they keep making hte playoffs every year, unless they are one of the most inept playoff teams in the history of the NBA.

It's not an accomplishment if they eventually do it(after 5 or 6 tries), it's that the fact that it took them 7 or 8 tries means they suck unusually hard at playoff basketball.


Besides, the main thing keeping them from advancing has called it season early. That still leaves them with Yao's lack of mobility up and down the court and Artest's instability...not to mention a rookie PG and an excuse making coach.

They are not a title contender.
Scola is not that good.

So it really comes down to if you think they should have just wasted the Scola pick, or gotten something from it. The Spurs chose the less gluttonous and wasteful path...

That's really all it is.

And the Rockets aren't going to win a championship....if they do and Scola is a reason, yes, it will hurt.

...and here I thought it was obvious to everyone with a brain stem + that the Scola trade was a sickeningly poor decision. The Houston Goodwill Industries Rockets were smart.

Meanwhile, the Spurs are playing Duncan at Center anyway and miss out on gaining the benefit of having 3 Argentine NT stars playing on the floor together with all of the synergy that comes with that.

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Originally Posted by Solid D

http://www.wtamu.edu/~crobinson/Greener/Cattle1.jpg

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#1. You over-rate Scola.
#2. You assume Scola was signable by the Spurs.
#3. You seem to be unaware of how badly Scola has done against us when Bonner was defending him :lol
#4. You assume Scola would get played on the Spurs like he does on the Rockets and ignore the fact that Bonner isn't starting because of his rebounding and defense, he's starting because of his ability to hit the 3.