Re: Is the GOP imploding?
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Originally Posted by
hope4dopes
Yes they, do popular culture has even coined the term "political correctness" to express it.... has a nice ring sort of like idelogically pure or good party member
Political Correctness these days is more of a cloak for assholes to excuse their behavior than anything else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
hope4dopes
bullshit there is a lively discussion going on with consevatives discussing the implosion of the RNC because it's not meeting our needs,our general mistrust and possible alternatives. I don't see any liberals doing the same here, about the DNC, or commenting about how their party may be imploding as well, but please direct me to the thread or discussion about liberals dissatisfaction with the democrat party I must have missed it somehow.Yes the DNC won the election but honestly can you say that rank and file democrats or Americans won anything.
Where the fuck were you during the Democratic Primaries? Obama vs. Hillary doesn't ring a bell? Have you participated in any of the discussion on this board for the past, what, 4 years? If you can find evidence of a Conservative civil war on this board prior to November of 2006, bring it out.
Meanwhile, Obama's been in office for 3 fucking months and we already have some issues. Granted, we're not going apeshit and calling for his head, but then again the mere thought of Obama in the Oval Office doesn't drive us batshit insane the way it does some of you guys.
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3310/...5c6067.jpg?v=0
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gad...0115_large.jpg
http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gad...0075_large.jpg
http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/phot...wTNFzyMIz2k%3D
...but these guys are just being "politically incorrect" right?
Re: Is the GOP imploding?
So you see 4 pictures and make the assumption that all conservatives and Republicans are like the people with the signs in the pictures posted above?
Re: Is the GOP imploding?
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Originally Posted by
Jacob1983
So you see 4 pictures and make the assumption that all conservatives and Republicans are like the people with the signs in the pictures posted above?
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Originally Posted by Pixelpusher
...the way it does some of you guys.
Re: Is the GOP imploding?
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Originally Posted by
Wild Cobra
Sure he is. As for Hannity changing? I don't know. Maybe. I do know he's been talking more and more like a conservative libertarian.
He (and Hannity) have consistently defended the decision to premptively invade Iraq even after it was undeniable that there was no threat to the US from Iraq on the basis of spreading freedom and democracy. I'm sure you'll find some way to try and argue but anyone who supports the idea that america must spread freedom with bombs and military force cannot be a libertarian. Now if he instead had taken the position that, although it was a mistake to invade, this country had the responsibilty of correcting the mistake by leaving Iraq in a stable state (as opposed to the cut & run strategy offered up by the dems at the time) then maybe I would believe he might be a libertarian. I've never heard him take that postion.
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Originally Posted by
Wild Cobra
Who is talking about pure libertarianism? Please... Who said that? Why do you take it to the extreme? Few people accept the extreme left or right as well!
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Originally Posted by
Wild Cobra
The idea is you protect your property. Sure, some will not take care of it, but common sense tells us more property would be protected better that way. The Ivory business is a perfect example. In countries it is illegal in, elephant poaching is out of control. In countries it is legal in, the herds are cared for and in no danger of extinction.
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Originally Posted by
Wild Cobra
Does it matter? Sell it for less, the product still runs out, and some people are still left without. If a person isn't smart enough to prepare in advance, then I don't give a rats ass what they have to pay. You live in hurricane country, you buy, cut it to size, and store it until needed. To do otherwise is piss poor planning.
I picked two extreme positions from the libertarian party and you are defending them. So I think you answered your own question.
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Originally Posted by
Wild Cobra
When did he claim that? I know he referenced it, but I don't recall he ever said he was a Reagan conservative. If I'm wrong, please show me.
To be honest, I don't know if he ever said "I am a Reagan conservative". He did spend alot of time referencing & quoting Reagan. Which in my opinion is the same thing. Arguable I suppose.
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Originally Posted by
Wild Cobra
I am not a conservative leaning libertarian.
I know you're not. Depending on the thread I generally view you as either a neocon or just a dickish talk radio listener with no real sense of your own ideology. More and more I'm thinking it's the latter. When Obama makes some cuts to the Dept. of Homeland Security I'm pretty sure you'll be against them since I know Bortz, Hannity etc. will be railing about it. I on the other hand (although I listen to conservative radio) will be thinking good but it would be better if he just cut the Dept. of Homeland Security and Dept. of Energy and Dept. of Education...all unnecessary.
Re: Is the GOP imploding?
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Originally Posted by
SnakeBoy
He's not a libertarian, hell even Sean Hannity claims to be a libertarian now. Neocons never like to admit what they are. Besides pure libertarianism is a stupid ideology that americans will never accept. Do you think americans will accept that the way to protect the environement is to sell it? Do you think americans will accept the idea that if a hurricane is approaching it's okay to sell a sheet of plywood for $200 because that's what people are "willing" to pay at that time? That libertarianism.
There's a healthy variety of libertarianisms out there, but they aren't very well known yet. Maybe the vogue of political independence among erstwhile partisans will lead them to actually read the libertarianism they putatively expouse, but I doubt it. Instead it will be adopted as an off the rack rebranding of a myth they already believe in. Libertarianism is a word that accompanies navel-gazing, like liberalism and conservatism.
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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
As mentioned imploded (not imploding) is the correct tense when talking about the GOP. Now they are in rebuilding mode much like the spurs will soon be. I don't think they will regain power until they reject neoconservatism and get back to the ideology of Reagan (not a neocons despite what the board liberals would have you believe). It will be tough though because neocons have done such a good job of hijacking reaganism. It's hard to trust anyone who claims to be a reagan conservative, just look at W's 2000 campaign for proof. I think any conservative who fails to admit invading Iraq was a mistake will fail my "are you a neocon" test. Basically I'll be looking for conservatives who are a little less libertarian leaning than Ron Paul and have a much better personality than Ron Paul.
The neocons started out as anti-communist libs who voted for Nixon because their own party got *corrupted* by the anti-war left.
On Reagan, I part with you. The Reagan Administration represents the triumph of neocon policy in the GOP: military keynesianism (deficit spending) plus wars of democratic or humanitarian intervention. Reagan represents the proximate triumph of Cold War liberalism in national politics, and is the beginning of traditional conservatisms' long walk in the wilderness IMO.
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Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
The other option might be that neocons flock back to the Democratic party since power is what they are most interested in. Then they can fuck up that party like they did the GOP.
What makes you think they ever left?
Seriously, Afghanistan?
Neocons could fuck it up for Obama, too.
As for the possible emergence of third parties, without a regional base, political parties can't really thrive.
The last electorally significant third-party Presidential candidate was George Wallace.
Re: Is the GOP imploding?
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Originally Posted by
Winehole23
On Reagan, I part with you. The Reagan Administration represents the triumph of neocon policy in the GOP: military keynesianism (deficit spending) plus wars of democratic or humanitarian intervention. Reagan represents the proximate triumph of Cold War liberalism in national politics, and is the beginning of traditional conservatisms' long walk in the wilderness IMO.
Well, whether or not we disagree depends on if you're saying Reagan was a neocon or if your saying neocons used the success of Reagan to take over the GOP. Reagan rejected detente and used the military buildup to put pressure on the soviets, not to engage them militarily. Yes he had neocons in his administration but he rejected their advice much like Bush treated Colin Powell. Here's a nice little article on Reagan and Neocons.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/11/op...e-neocons.html
Re: Is the GOP imploding?
Seriously, why does the left care so much about what Hannity, Rush, O'Reilly, and Glenn Beck have to say?
Hannity is a nut. I doubt that he really thinks the Hannah Montana movie was good. You should have heard him talk about Miley Cirus. It was like the guy was jizzing in his pants about her. Hannity is probably the most extreme out of that bunch. I would put Rush second, then Beck, and O'Reilly last. O'Reilly isn't extreme as people think he is.
Re: Is the GOP imploding?
Hannity is just a whore for whoever is paying him or helping him get paid.
Billy Ray Cyrus is doing his freedom concerts... Hannah is his daughter.
GM is one of his major sponsors... so he's against all bailouts... but I've heard him say countless times that all GM needs is a "bridge loan"
Re: Is the GOP imploding?
Re: Is the GOP imploding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SnakeBoy
Well, whether or not we disagree
depends on if you're saying Reagan was a neocon or if your saying neocons used the success of Reagan to take over the GOP. Reagan rejected detente and used the military buildup to put pressure on the soviets, not to engage them militarily. Yes he had neocons in his administration but he rejected their advice much like Bush treated Colin Powell. Here's a nice little article on Reagan and Neocons.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/11/op...e-neocons.html
You're quite right right to stress that Reagan himself wasn't a neocon, but he did hold the door open for them.
Re: Is the GOP imploding?
So many "libertarians" in the GOP, yet when one runs for the presidency only 3 out of a 100 vote for him.
Re: Is the GOP imploding?
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Originally Posted by
Marcus Bryant
So many "libertarians" in the GOP, yet when one runs for the presidency only 3 out of a 100 vote for him.
Who and where, please? Bob Barr topped out around 0.40 percent....
Re: Is the GOP imploding?
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Originally Posted by
Winehole23
Who and where, please? Bob Barr topped out around 0.40 percent....
I was thinking of the congressman from Lake Jackson.
Re: Is the GOP imploding?
RP. Three points consistently in 2007.
Re: Is the GOP imploding?
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Originally Posted by
Winehole23
RP. Three points consistently in 2007.
Yeah, it looks like he did a little better. Still, for a party full of individualists suspicious of the scale and scope of the federal government, that wasn't that great, especially considering that he attracted a fair number of non-traditional GOP primary voters.
Re: Is the GOP imploding?
However you regard the outcome for RP, it's yet more evidence that the current vogue of *libertarianism* is more sloganeering than doctrinal.
Re: Is the GOP imploding?
Sure. Paul offered as close of an option within the GOP for a 'libertarian' candidate as there ever has been. 5.5%, I believe, was his share of the total popular/caucus vote (1.6% of delegates). Anecdotally, the objection to him was his view of the Iraq invasion and US military strategy, in general. The weird thing is that had it been a, say, President Clinton who ultimately ordered the invasion of Iraq, then the GOP would have resorted to a 'Democrat Wars' mentality and a candidate Paul would have been more acceptable (or cast off in favor of a more acceptable big government 'conservative'). Most of that is my conjecture, but does it not ring true?
Re: Is the GOP imploding?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Marcus Bryant
Sure. Paul offered as close of an option within the GOP for a 'libertarian' candidate as there ever has been. 5.5%, I believe, was his share of the total popular/caucus vote (1.6% of delegates). Anecdotally, the objection to him was his view of the Iraq invasion and US military strategy, in general. The weird thing is that had it been a, say, President Clinton who ultimately ordered the invasion of Iraq, then the GOP would have resorted to a 'Democrat Wars' mentality and a candidate Paul would have been more acceptable (or cast off in favor of a more acceptable big government 'conservative'). Most of that is my conjecture, but does it not ring true?
Absolutely. It happened in 1999 when we bombed Yugoslavia. Besides McCain, not many Republicans stood up for Clinton, but there was a temporary congruence with the libertarian right. Clinton was denounced for starry eyed internationalism and *nation-building.*
Re: Is the GOP imploding?
After making a "humbler" foreign policy a selling point, GWB gave us both liberal idealism and nation building with a vengeance.
The conservative faithful blessed that too in 2004.
