Initial Reactions: Spurs vs. Mavs - Game 1

That wasn't a fun way to start the playoffs. The Mavericks overcame an early deficit to pound the Spurs in their own building. Scoring 60 points in the second half and 87 points in the final three quarters, Dallas was able to post a resounding 105-97 victory over San Antonio.

Things are already starting to look bleak for the Spurs. Despite hitting 11 of their first 12 three-point attempts and getting a good performance out of Tim Duncan, they weren't very close to winning the game. The main problem was obviously their defense. The Mavs shot 53.8% from the floor and simply carved up the Spurs' defense with their penetration.

Dallas obviously deserves a whole lot of credit. They got incredible bench play from Brandon Bass in the first half and J.J. Barea in the second half. Josh Howard continues to be a player the Spurs simply cannot get a handle on. Dirk Nowitzki and Jason Terry didn't dominate but they played well enough. And Erick Dampier played extremely well on both ends of the court.

It's difficult to digest this loss right away. The Spurs shot well, Duncan played well, Nowitzki and Terry were held in check, Nowitzki battled foul trouble and yet the Mavs comfortably won.

Thankfully, the Spurs have a history of being able to bounce back. They came back to win championships in 2003, 2005 and 2007 after losing the first game of the playoffs. They beat the Mavs in 2003 after losing the first game of the series. But the Spurs need a lot more than historical precedence to get the job done.

-Tim Duncan played about as well as could be expected. His offense carried the team when the scoring had stagnated. Despite only getting one free throw on 24 field goal attempts, he kept at it and tried to will his team to victory. Defensively, he was actually pretty good even with the chaos created by Dallas' penetration. He could have done more on the glass and he didn't protect the rim as well as possible, but this was about as much as the Spurs could have hoped to get out of Duncan.

-Tony Parker simply did not play at the superstar level like the Spurs needed out of him. He had a rough patch early, then got it going for a stretch in the middle of the game but ultimately fizzled down the stretch. By the beginning of the fourth, he looked exhausted. Defensively, he started the ballgame off well but then got destroyed by Barea in the second half. Bottomline is that Barea outplays Parker for half the game, the Spurs simply won't be able to beat the Mavs.

-Roger Mason, Jr. had a decent game. He shot the ball well from behind the arc, hitting 4-of-5 to begin the game. His three-pointer to begin the fourth seemed like it could have been a momentum changing shot. Defensively, Mason was acceptable when he wasn't asked to defend someone who mattered. But when he tried to defend Terry, Howard or Barea, his inability to get around a screen was blatantly on display. I also wasn't too happy with his hustle to loose balls, particularly rebounds in the fourth quarter. Not a horrible beginning for Mason but far from spectacular.

-You can't blame this game on Michael Finley's shooting. He was 5-for-5 from beyond the three-point arc. He also grabbed four rebounds to go along with his 19 points. At the onset of the game, I thought his defense was good. But then Howard just started destroying him. Finley spaced him to give him open looks and Howard was able to knock down shots and also get to the rim. When Howard really got rolling, Finley was basically helpless.

-A lot of Spurs fans saw this coming from a mile away. Matt Bonner's introduction to playoff basketball was a disaster. He played 18 minutes, didn't grab a single defensive rebound and his only real meaningful stat (a steal) was negated (when he immediately threw the ball away). I thought his defense against Nowitzki was decent but he has to produce better than he did tonight in other areas to merit playing time. Going without a defensive board and missing your only shot (an ill-advised shot at that) is unacceptable no matter how you look at it.

-Bruce Bowen might have been the brightest spot for the Spurs. After being locked in the freezer for most of the season, Pop quickly figured out he needed to defrost him if the Spurs were going to have any shot. Bowen played very good defense against Terry, drew a few offensive fouls and hit the only shot he attempted. He was by far the best defender on the court for the Spurs and for San Antonio to win, it's going to require a healthy serving of Bowen.

-Drew Gooden played pretty well in the first half. He was very aggressive looking for his own shot and quickly put eight point on the board. Surprisingly enough, I also thought his defense was okay. His D wasn't good but it also wasn't too much of a liability. Where Gooden didn't help was going 18 minutes without a defensive board. Four offensive boards is good work but he has to be part of the solution on the defensive glass, not part of the problem.

-I wasn't impressed with Kurt Thomas. He's had a few of these clunkers coming down the stretch where he just isn't doing much of anything well. He didn't rebound well, he missed the two shots he took and his overall energy level just wasn't high enough. I'm not sure if his gas tank is empty or what but the Spurs need the Thomas of a few weeks ago who was a very good player.

-Ime Udoka didn't play very well. He came into the game early and within one minute, he proved that he's too slow to defend Terry. Udoka was yet another Spur who didn't do anything on the defensive glass. His best minutes came late in the game when it was all but decided.

-Pop had a number of questionable decisions, many of which have their roots in his decisions going back to the regular season. First of all, it's already obvious that Pop didn't play Bowen enough during the regular season. His plan of sending Bowen to an early retirement backfired when it was clear that Bowen is still very much needed. Secondly, not having a backup point guard solution has to be part of the reason why Parker had nothing left down the stretch. The Spurs couldn't afford to give Parker his normal rest and the result was a tired floor leader. Thirdly, I thought he should have pulled the plug on Bonner earlier. Bonner obviously wasn't ready for this stage and he wasn't helping at all.

As bad as things may seem, I'm nowhere near ready to concede this series. The most important development is that Duncan appears to be pretty darn healthy. If Parker can bounce back with better play (he's started the playoffs with a dud many times in his career ... only to respond positively) and the rotation can tighten up a bit, the Spurs can get right back in this series.

Gotta get Game 2, though.

Believe.

the genius on the sideline can even fuck up homecourt and dirk having 3 fouls early.

where the hell did gooden go in the second half? He played Dirk well in the limited chances he got.
as much as i love him, bonner looked like he didn't belong out there, at any point. It's saddening but the matchup with Dirk just makes him look extremely bad.
ime on dirk when we're trying to come back? for real Pop, you're not gonna play Bowen over Ime on Dirk?

And Good fucking God, apparently the "gameplan" for Josh Howard is leave him open for midrange jumpshots all fucking game. Yeah, that was a good idea when he was still 2-8. After nailing three in a row, do you really still call for doubles on Dirk with his man, who also happens to be the worst defender on the court?

:bang

These are just "tonight's" mistakes.

Mason is not a PG, and hasn't played a great game at the position once this season. More importantly, we could have desperately used Hill to cool down Barea. Instead, we all watched Parker tire himself out chasing that quick little bastard all around the court. Mason's defense going through screens was below average at best, so there really wasn't any time to try out GHill?

Bruce Bowen must play more minutes, and must play them earlier. I would go as far to say he should start. Bowen could have hit those corner 3's exactly the same as Finley early on. Yeah, he made a couple stupid fouls tonight - who gives a damn, Pop? What he does on the court outweighs all 6 fouls if need be. All season we thought he was saving him for the PO, guess not.

Lastly, Finley's lack of ability on D, especially as the game winds on, really overshadows anything he does on the other end of the court. He scored well, but what good did it end up doing us? We were fighting back from down double digits with little time remaining.

tp has to try to draw more contact
he missed the first 4 layup attempts...

Pop has lost his vulcan mind.

spurs need to attack and try to get dampier in foul trouble
not as much as dirk in foul trouble

You were way too easy on Bonner and Pop. This loss is on those two guys. But I blame Pop more than Bonner. It's not Bonner's fault he sucks...but it is Pop's fault for playing Bonner over Gooden.

time for pop to lighten up

and btw, it's over. Mavs in 5.

dallas made their only move they can
dallas has no more suprises

Bonner looked like a flapper girl who got a little loopy after hittin the ole gin n juice.

first thing is to find a way to limit Barea and to defence Mavs's pick and roll.

PS: Bonner sucks. should be DNP in this series.

Bruce was fantastic. I hope he and Gooden play a lot of minutes in game 2;

And please Pop, no more Bonner. Start Oberto, Thomas or Gooden but no more Bonner

i disagree, goodens defense on nowitzki was better than bonners in the game, nowitzki just shot right over bonner with ease, and to make matter worst posterized that big stiff.

When Bonner went back in the game, it was like he was saying: "You don't want small ball? Enjoy Matt Bonner :tu"

Bonner has been the cat's meow all season. Now his play is givin us the business.

At least you guys can count on not having another monster game out of Bass/Dampier. Those games happen about as often as a solar eclipse. Get Damp in foul trouble, and Tim eats Hollins alive. I'm far from convinced, this series is anything but in the bag.

What was up with the Mason on Nowitzki matchups?

i just wish pop can bench bonner and play hill as backup PG

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Originally Posted by timvp

When Bonner went back in the game, it was like he was saying: "You don't want small ball? Enjoy Matt Bonner :tu"

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That'll show us.

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Originally Posted by mavs>spurs

At least you guys can count on not having another monster game out of Bass/Dampier. Those games happen about as often as a solar eclipse. Get Damp in foul trouble, and Tim eats Hollins alive. I'm far from convinced, this series is anything but in the bag.

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Can't do it if they won't blow the fuckin' whistle.

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Originally Posted by mavs>spurs

At least you guys can count on not having another monster game out of Bass/Dampier. Those games happen about as often as a solar eclipse. Get Damp in foul trouble, and Tim eats Hollins alive. I'm far from convinced, this series is anything but in the bag.

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No way, I knew JJ and Bass were gonna kill us. They always seem to play well against us.

This series is far from over, but it's definitely off to a disheartening start if you're a Spurs fan. Only one game in and SA finds themselves in a must win situation.

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Originally Posted by Amuseddaysleeper

What was up with the Mason on Nowitzki matchups?

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Small ball. Bad matchup but Mason is better equipped to guard Nowitzki than Terry. The Mavs obviously knew the scouting report that Mason can't get around screens and just ran Terry around 50 screens in the few minutes Mason attempted to defend him.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Can't do it if they won't blow the fuckin' whistle.

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Don't make them bust out Hollins on that ass.

im not sure but i think brandon bass shot it from my bathroom and somehow it still went in.

dude went bonkers today

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Originally Posted by bless1187

i disagree, goodens defense on nowitzki was better than bonners in the game, nowitzki just shot right over bonner with ease, and to make matter worst posterized that big stiff.

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gotta agree. gooden played good defense. definitely better than bonner, who was abused by the mavs.

Damn pop

The way I see it, I hope this experiment with Bonner proves once and for all how he cannot be a key component of a title team. With Manu out, this year is likely not bringing us a title. I'm looking forward to 09-10, with a healthy big 3, and Pop making better decisions with regard to the supporting cast. If a 1st round spanking is what's needed for Pop to resign Gooden, play Hill more, stop playing Mason as backup PG, trade/sit Bonner, etc, then so be it.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Small ball. Bad matchup but Mason is better equipped to guard Nowitzki than Terry. The Mavs obviously knew the scouting report that Mason can't get around screens and just ran Terry around 50 screens in the few minutes Mason attempted to defend him.

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I have more faith in Finley fighting through or around screens than Mason.

Haha. Matt Bonner.

The run is over.

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Originally Posted by timvp

When Bonner went back in the game, it was like he was saying: "You don't want small ball? Enjoy Matt Bonner :tu"

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Well getting Bonner was the Spurs solution to losing to Dallas in 2006.
:lol

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Originally Posted by peskypesky

You were way too easy on Bonner and Pop. This loss is on those two guys. But I blame Pop more than Bonner. It's not Bonner's fault he sucks...but it is Pop's fault for playing Bonner over Gooden.

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I agree with you 100%.

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Originally Posted by Spursmania

I agree with you 100%.

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you really think the bulk or even a considerable portion of this loss is on Bonner :huh

he's a fuckin roleplayer you idiots. you act like he fouled dirk for an and 1 three pointer while we were up 3 with 1 second remaining. the fool took one fucking shot and only played 18 minutes.

Kurt Thomas has the exact same stat line with 1 more board and 3 less fouls. Is a large portion of the loss on him too?

I'm not even going to write anything, other than writing that I'm not going to do it.

Except that I can't believe how bad this team has become on defense. I mean, it's really sad how exposed they are all over the place.

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Originally Posted by z0sa

you really think the bulk or even a considerable portion of this loss is on Bonner :huh

he's a fuckin roleplayer you idiots. you act like he fouled dirk for an and 1 three pointer while we were up 3 with 1 second remaining. the fool took one fucking shot and only played 18 minutes.

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That's 18 more minutes than what he should have played. And the bulk of this loss is on Pop for actually going back to him over and over again.

just watch...cia pop is gonna let us get to 0-3 and then pow!!! the mavs won't suspect a thing. all hail, pop.

The interesting thing about the 2 games I watched today was the teams who have been willing to play and develop young guys- Dallas and Chicago. I watched Rose, Thomas and Noah, and then Barea, Bass, and Wright, while the Spurs played no one born after 1982.

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Originally Posted by itzsoweezee

gotta agree. gooden played good defense. definitely better than bonner, who was abused by the mavs.

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Timvp can you please explain this?

I thought Bonner was awful on the defensive end, but how can you say he played good D and say Drew wasn't as good as Bonner on the defensive end?

we need a backup PG for TP. plz activate Hill

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

Haha. Matt Bonner.

The run is over.

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That flop on Dampier is one of the worst plays all time in Spurs history

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Originally Posted by ElNono

That's 18 more minutes than what he should have played.

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Since KT had the exact same statline and contributed only very slightly more, I'm going to assume he shouldn't have played 18 minutes either. So, who gets the 36 minutes of time?

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And the bulk of this loss is on Pop for actually going back to him over and over again.

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Bonner took one shot and played 18 minutes. Try again. I'll start you out:

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And the bulk of this loss is on Pop for

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Originally Posted by ploto

Well getting Bonner was the Spurs solution to losing to Dallas in 2006.
:lol

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Yeah, I don't know what makes me crazier, that he wouldn't bring in a big white guy in 2006 or that he won't take out a big white guy this year.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Yeah, I don't know what makes me crazier, that he wouldn't bring in a big white guy in 2006 or that he won't take out a big white guy this year.

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The more things change, the more they stay the same

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Originally Posted by Spurs Brazil

That flop on Dampier is one of the worst plays all time in Spurs history

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That wasn't a flop, he set his feet and got knocked down. Again, he should have known he wasn't going to get the call, but what else could he do aside from just wrap the dude up?

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Originally Posted by z0sa

Since KT had the exact same statline and contributed only very slightly more, I'm going to assume he shouldn't have played 18 minutes either. So, who gets the 36 minutes of time?



Bonner took one shot and played 18 minutes. Try again.

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no way you're defending bonner after that game.

it's just puzzling that we have a defensive legend like Bruce Bowen, and he isn't starting..he's clearly proven that he's still effective, yet Pop is insulting him by doing this..

then we have a VERY GOOD defensive PG/SG with great athleticism and freakish length, and he can't get off the fucking bench..

what happened to the defensive philosophy?..

The 2nd half defense was pathetic. Constant lane penetration and offensive rebounds by the Mavs, especially with Duncan and 4 guards. When Duncan had to help out, that exposed Damp and the other guys for offensive boards.

Too much TD down the stretch too. It reminded me of the stagnant O of years past.

We're gonna see a lot more of Barea....he's one of few that was able to stay in front of Parker.

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Originally Posted by Mugen

no way you're defending bonner after that game.

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He played like shit, but only a 100% through and through dumbass would think he cost us the game, or was a considerable part of the problem. Him doing nothing affects the Spurs only so much.

and i've defended bonner forever, you're foolish to think i'd do otherwise. It's too easy to defend him with all the irrational hating that goes on.

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Originally Posted by z0sa

Since KT had the exact same statline and contributed only very slightly more, I'm going to assume he shouldn't have played 18 minutes either. So, who gets the 36 minutes of time?



Bonner took one shot and played 18 minutes. Try again.

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All I'll say is watch the game and not the box score. The way Bonner flopped, picked up fouls, let Dirk and Bass take it right to him, and did squat by way of boxing out (much less actually pick up some boards), he was the Mavs' MVP.

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Originally Posted by z0sa

He played like shit, but only a 100% through and through dumbass would think he cost us the game, or was a considerable part of the problem. Him doing nothing affects the Spurs only so much.

and i've defended bonner forever, you're foolish to think i'd do otherwise. It's too easy to defend him with all the irrational hating that goes on.

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he didnt cost us the game. but IMO he is the personification of everything that is wrong with the spurs this season.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

That wasn't a flop, he set his feet and got knocked down. Again, he should have known he wasn't going to get the call, but what else could he do aside from just wrap the dude up?

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Wrap him up. Foul him. Have him earn it from the charity stripe. So much for basketball IQ.

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Originally Posted by Ice009

Timvp can you please explain this?

I thought Bonner was awful on the defensive end, but how can you say he played good D and say Drew wasn't as good as Bonner on the defensive end?

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I said he played decent defense on Nowitzki. And didn't make any gross errors in that matchup. Nowtizki went around him for a dunk but Bonner was supposed to give him baseline ... there was just no help defense.

And Pop went with Bonner over Gooden because Bonner knows where to rotate on defense .... while Gooden basically just guesses. Obviously I don't think Bonner deserved those minutes but Bonner's defense is what had him playing in the fourth.

Which probably explains how poor the bigman defenders are next to Duncan. Thomas is the best of the bunch but he was playing bad too and his lack of speed makes him a bad match against the quick rotations needed.

Again, I don't condone Pop's actions or Bonner's play. I'm just explaining the reasoning.

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Originally Posted by Spurs Brazil

That flop on Dampier is one of the worst plays all time in Spurs history

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Agreed. That's the play I'll remember from this game. When Dampier got the ball, I was literally yelling at Bonner not to flop. Then he executed the worst flop in history within the charge circle and got dunked on to boot. That was just a horrible idea and a horribly executed flop.

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Originally Posted by z0sa

He played like shit, but only a 100% through and through dumbass would think he cost us the game, or was a considerable part of the problem. Him doing nothing affects the Spurs only so much.

and i've defended bonner forever, you're foolish to think i'd do otherwise. It's too easy to defend him with all the irrational hating that goes on.

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When a starter doesn't play any defense, gets one rebound, doesn't block shots, gets one shot attempt IN THE WHOLE GAME, doesn't draw fouls, doesn't go to the line, and plays five minutes in the fourth quarter where a four point deficit turns into a ten point deficit, only a 100 percent dumbass wouldn't think that is a considerable part of an 8 point loss.

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Originally Posted by Warlord23

All I'll say is watch the game and not the box score.

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But that's not all you say:

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The way Bonner flopped,

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Dampier mowed him over on that dunk, plain and simple. Its the playoffs and the refs didn't call it.

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picked up fouls,

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He picked up 3 of his 4 fouls early, long before the Spurs built a lead and lost it. Fail.

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let Dirk and Bass take it right to him,

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Bass took it right to Kurt and Finley and everyone else who guarded him, all I'll say is watch the game. Fail for singling Bonner out.

The Dirk dunk was supposed to have a defender (Finley) rotate baseline, his rotation was late.

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and did squat by way of boxing out (much less actually pick up some boards), he was the Mavs' MVP.

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He had a shitty game true. Mavs MVP? You're a fool.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

That wasn't a flop, he set his feet and got knocked down.

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No offense but that was one of the most blatant flops I've ever seen. The Spurs had a few no-calls that might have been questionable ...... but that wasn't one of them.

I think KT is our best bet to stop Bass if Duncan is on him, but believe it or not, I'm a little concerned about Barea against the Spurs.

The Spurs rotations are still a step slow. I would rather they clog the lane the rest of the way like the Lakers did to us in 2004 onward.

I would rather give the Mavs jumpers than easy layups.

that was the worst flop ive ever seen from a spur.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Agreed. That's the play I'll remember from this game. When Dampier got the ball, I was literally yelling at Bonner not to flop. Then he executed the worst flop in history within the charge circle and got dunked on to boot. That was just a horrible idea and a horribly executed flop.

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Agreed. I could actually see the flop coming as if I were peering into his brain and you could almost see him time when he was going to go down which made the chances of him selling it decrease even more. Hell, Dampier was really just backing up as Bonner was giving ground waiting to pull off his move.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

the fourth quarter where a four point deficit turns into a ten point deficit

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(+/-)
Finley -20
Kurt Thomas -9
Bonner -8
Parker -4

Yeah, it was all Bonner's fault. Not TP clearly tired. Not Ime and Mason on Dirk. Bonner shouldn't have been in the game, perhaps - Gooden should have.

Besides, your asking for Bonner to block shots? Defend dirk well? Tim Duncan can't defend Dirk. Bruce Bowen can't defend Dirk. I mean, the fact Finley is -20 after nailing those 3's in the end should tell you something about the root of the problem.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Agreed. That's the play I'll remember from this game. When Dampier got the ball, I was literally yelling at Bonner not to flop. Then he executed the worst flop in history within the charge circle and got dunked on to boot. That was just a horrible idea and a horribly executed flop.

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When Dampier had the ball on the post I had the same felling. I just thought to myself, Bonner will get dunked, but he made it worst he floped and got dunked.

I started :cuss:cuss:cuss so loud that my sister came to my room to see if everything was OK :lol

Bonner has to be Benoed.

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Originally Posted by timvp

No offense but that was one of the most blatant flops I've ever seen. The Spurs had a few no-calls that might have been questionable ...... but that wasn't one of them.

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I wouldn't call it a total flop at all. Dampier lowered his shoulder on that last powerdribble. Was it still a nocall? Perhaps. But there seemed more than just a little contact.

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Originally Posted by DDS4

The 2nd half defense was pathetic. Constant lane penetration and offensive rebounds by the Mavs, especially with Duncan and 4 guards. When Duncan had to help out, that exposed Damp and the other guys for offensive boards.

Too much TD down the stretch too. It reminded me of the stagnant O of years past.

We're gonna see a lot more of Barea....he's one of few that was able to stay in front of Parker.

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too much TD?! seriously?! who the fuck did you want to run the offense through?!..Tony was JJ Barea's ho tonight, there's no way he should have had the ball down the stretch ahead of Tim..

"years past"? the offense hasn't changed at all, even without running it through Tim all the time..it still sucks..

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Originally Posted by EricB

Bonner has to be Benoed.

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Originally Posted by T Park

The bonner of now, is the one many of us saw when that trade was made.

His play now just solidifies that as one of the best trades the 'chise ever made.

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Originally Posted by EricB

Bonner has to be Benoed.

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you know bonner played horrible when his 1 fan wants him benched.

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Originally Posted by z0sa

I wouldn't call it a total flop at all. Dampier lowered his shoulder on that last powerdribble. Was it still a nocall? Perhaps. But there seemed more than just a little contact.

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I don't recall there being that much aggressive contact on that one. It really seemed like Bonner was setting himself up from the moment Damp started dribbling to take the charge.

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Originally Posted by Spurs Brazil

That flop on Dampier is one of the worst plays all time in Spurs history

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:bang

I had that thankfully erased from my memory until you had to post that. :pctoss

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Originally Posted by timvp

No offense but that was one of the most blatant flops I've ever seen. The Spurs had a few no-calls that might have been questionable ...... but that wasn't one of them.

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Damp got the ball and displaced Bonner to that position. Bonner finally decided to hold his ground. Call it bad defense, but he got knocked down, and by the rules it should have been an offensive foul, because Damp got the ball in the low post, so the no-charge circle isn't a factor. Hubie Brown's reaction to that call was that Bonner wasn't going to get that call because he's too young.

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Originally Posted by NewJerSpur

I don't recall there being that much aggressive contact on that one. It really seemed like Bonner was setting himself up from the moment Damp started dribbling to take the charge.

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He was, and he's got the absolute right to set his feet in a defensive position and if Damp initiates the contact it's an offensive foul. Check the rulebook, folks. Damp didn't really lower his shoulder, but he didn't go around Bonner, he went through him. Textbook charge. Just ask Shaq.

A bunch of us are remembering that flop/non-foul(?) in different lights, that's for sure. Looked like a straight up flop IMO.

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Originally Posted by z0sa

But that's not all you say:



Dampier mowed him over on that dunk, plain and simple. Its the playoffs and the refs didn't call it.



He picked up 3 of his 4 fouls early, long before the Spurs built a lead and lost it. Fail.



Bass took it right to Kurt and Finley and everyone else who guarded him, all I'll say is watch the game. Fail for singling Bonner out.

The Dirk dunk was supposed to have a defender (Finley) rotate baseline, his rotation was late.



He had a shitty game true. Mavs MVP? You're a fool.

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You're just making it more obvious that you started posting after reading the freaking box score.

We should have put the game away in the first half. Bonner left the game when we had a 4 point lead. By the time he came back the lead was 9. And Dirk was in foul trouble. The Bonner comes in and sure enough, Bass gets into his offensive rhythm.

In the third quarter, Bonner shows poor rotations. Either someone is getting a wide open shot, or Dampier is getting his tip-ins when Duncan challenges a penetrating guard. Pop takes out Bonner when the Mavs build up a lead. Spurs then tie it up at 72 to end the 3rd.

4th quarter, Bonner shows up again and sure enough Dampier and Bass get bunnies regularly from then on. By the time Bonner is pulled, we're down 10 with no hope of recovery.

A lot of things didn't go well for the Spurs, but the Mavs playing 5 vs 4 with Bonner on the floor was # 1 by far.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

He was, and he's got the absolute right to set his feet in a defensive position and if Damp initiates the contact it's an offensive foul. Check the rulebook, folks. Damp didn't really lower his shoulder, but he didn't go around Bonner, he went through him. Textbook charge. Just ask Shaq.

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He didn't lower his shoulder, you're right. He backed into him and Bonner fell down.

The dumbest part about that Bonner play is that if didn't flop (or play for the offensive foul, however you want to look at it) and just stood his ground, Dampier probably miss. Damp has no post game and his one move is an ugly hook that he usually misses. Bonner is strong enough to hold his ground against Damp and make him do anything other than dunk it on him.

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Originally Posted by NewJerSpur

He didn't lower his shoulder, you're right. He backed into him and Bonner fell down.

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"If an offensive player causes contact with a defensive player who has estab-lished a legal position, an offensive foul shall be called and no points may be scored."

Nowhere in the NBA rulebook is there a distinction drawn between lowering one's shoulder and backing into a player. Bonner had established a legal defensive position in an area where the no-charge circle wasn't a factor. Offensive foul.

Of all the things Matt Bonner did in the game that I'm extraordinarily pissed about, that defensive job on Dampier, which resulted in only two points, is WAY fucking down on my bitch list.

Playoff games are about pressure, momentum and confidence.

The Mavs were salivating at the sight of Bonner on defense. No amount of plus-minus stats and box scores are going to show you that. No coincidence that they got into their best offensive stretches when Bonner was on the floor. Once they get into that kind of rhythm, you can't just undo it by substituting KT or Gooden for Bonner.

Bonner didn't belong on that floor today. I just hope Pop realizes this.

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Originally Posted by timvp

The dumbest part about that Bonner play is that if didn't flop (or play for the offensive foul, however you want to look at it) and just stood his ground, Dampier probably miss. Damp has no post game and his one move is an ugly hook that he usually misses. Bonner is strong enough to hold his ground against Damp and make him do anything other than dunk it on him.

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yup. his late hedge on barea where he knocked out ime was embarassing too, plus his steal on dirk only to throw it right to kidd. just an embarassing performance.

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Originally Posted by timvp

The dumbest part about that Bonner play is that if didn't flop (or play for the offensive foul, however you want to look at it) and just stood his ground, Dampier probably miss. Damp has no post game and his one move is an ugly hook that he usually misses. Bonner is strong enough to hold his ground against Damp and make him do anything other than dunk it on him.

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Damp's also a terrible free throw shooter. If nothing else, keep your feet under you and just foul him if he gets any better position. You can't really defend a dunk from your ass. Bonner was a fool for thinking he was going to get a call like that. Again, item 137 on the list of Matt Bonner criticisms.

tonight showed why Ron Howard is the only ginger in history to do anything good.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

When a starter doesn't play any defense, gets one rebound, doesn't block shots, gets one shot attempt IN THE WHOLE GAME, doesn't draw fouls, doesn't go to the line, and plays five minutes in the fourth quarter where a four point deficit turns into a ten point deficit, only a 100 percent dumbass wouldn't think that is a considerable part of an 8 point loss.

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:toast

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Originally Posted by Mugen

tonight showed why Ron Howard is the only ginger in history to do anything good.

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http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/33-11121-F.jpg

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Originally Posted by Mugen

that was the worst flop ive ever seen from a spur.

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i concur. so much worse than anything Manu ever pulled. and big men just shouldn't flop at all.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

"If an offensive player causes contact with a defensive player who has estab-lished a legal position, an offensive foul shall be called and no points may be scored."

Nowhere in the NBA rulebook is there a distinction drawn between lowering one's shoulder and backing into a player. Bonner had established a legal defensive position in an area where the no-charge circle wasn't a factor. Offensive foul.

Of all the things Matt Bonner did in the game that I'm extraordinarily pissed about, that defensive job on Dampier, which resulted in only two points, is WAY fucking down on my bitch list.

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So anytime a guy isn't giving ground to an offensive player who he's bainging there should be an offensive foul called? IMO, you have to use your best judgement as an official otherwise there'd be a lot more of those calls made in the NBA even without guys falling to the ground premeditatively.

It's not at the top of my list either, but I figured I'd chime in. Not fighting over smaller guards setting screens on you and allowing your starting PG to get demolished as a result is pretty high up there though.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

http://www.insidesocal.com/tomhoffarth/33-11121-F.jpg

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tell that to his knees.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Damp's also a terrible free throw shooter. If nothing else, keep your feet under you and just foul him if he gets any better position. You can't really defend a dunk from your ass. Bonner was a fool for thinking he was going to get a call like that. Again, item 137 on the list of Matt Bonner criticisms.

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:lol you reference a list of criticisms for a roleplayer?

I could make a list of 100 criticisms for mike finley or kurt thomas, hell there's plenty of shit Bruce Bowen could be criticised for. they're roleplayers they have flaws. Good one :donkey

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Originally Posted by NewJerSpur

So anytime a guy isn't giving ground to an offensive player who he's bainging there should be an offensive foul called? IMO, you have to use your best judgement as an official otherwise there'd be a lot more of those calls made in the NBA even without guys falling to the ground premeditatively.

It's not at the top of my list either, but I figured I'd chime in. Not fighting over smaller guards setting screens on you and allowing your starting PG to get demolished as a result is pretty high up there though.

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Dude, that quote is directly from the NBA rulebook. Why more guys don't just stand their ground in the post is puzzling to me. If someone tried that with Duncan, he'd go right around them or shoot while they had their feet flat on the ground. Dampier is not an elite post player, he was just lucky to have an even worse defender on him who has no credibility whatsoever with the zebras.

Who are the Spurs ?

The Spurs are Tim Duncan, Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker... and some guys who know their role and accept it.
Without 1 of the big 3, the team concept of the Spurs is fucked !

The Spurs are not the better team without Manu, period.

The Mavs have some great players and are healthy !

The Spurs will need to play out of their minds to beat the Mavs in a seven-game series.

I hope they will !

:flag::flag::flag:

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Originally Posted by z0sa

:lol you reference a list of criticisms for a roleplayer?

I could make a list of 100 criticisms for mike finley or kurt thomas, hell there's plenty of shit Bruce Bowen could be criticised for on offense. they're roleplayers they have flaws. Good one :donkey

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No wonder Matt Bonner had a bad game; he had to drag you around with your mouth attached to his fucking nut-sack.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

No wonder Matt Bonner had a bad game; he had to drag you around with your mouth attached to his fucking nut-sack.

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defending a player from unmerited personal attack doesn't = on his nutsack.

:lol at personally insulting me now just because you're guilty of being a total douchebag. shouldn't you go back to making your lists of role player criticisms? Perhaps starting an exciting new addition on kyle Korver or nick collison or josh powell now?

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Dude, that quote is directly from the NBA rulebook. Why more guys don't just stand their ground in the post is puzzling to me. If someone tried that with Duncan, he'd go right around them or shoot while they had their feet flat on the ground. Dampier is not an elite post player, he was just lucky to have an even worse defender on him who has no credibility whatsoever with the zebras.

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I agree with you OV about Damp. I'm just saying that it'd be impossible to go by the letter of the law on plays like that because most of the league would be in foul trouble for most of a lot of games (against teams with decent post play anyway). That's why it's up to refs to make judgement calls on the matter.

The Mavs, yet again, exposed the same defensive flaws, as they did in the WCSF series 3 years ago. Sure, some of the names have changed for both sides, but the results are the same. The Mavs had unquestionably too many playmakers then, when Pop tried shuffling Bowen from one hot Mav to the next. Three years later, it looks like nothing has changed at all.

I find it absolutely unacceptable that the Spurs have not improved their roster, such that they can better defend the many shot-makers the Mavs have. The sad thing is the Mavs are almost as old as the Spurs, yet look shockingly more athletic.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

No wonder Matt Bonner had a bad game; he had to drag you around with your mouth attached to his fucking nut-sack.

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I think it's pretty clear that Zosa is a Bonner relative.

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

The Mavs, yet again, exposed the same defensive flaws, as they did in the WCSF series 3 years ago. Sure, some of the names have changed for both sides, but the results are the same. The Mavs had unquestionably too many playmakers then, when Pop tried shuffling Bowen from one hot Mav to the next.

I find it absolutely unacceptable that the Spurs have not improved their roster, such that they can better defend the many shot-makers the Mavs have. The sad thing is the Mavs are almost as old as the Spurs, yet look shockingly more athletic.

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The more frustrating thing is that the Spurs have made some adjustments since 2006, but one of our best solutions is rotting on the bench, and when Pop does decides to finally stick to playing big, we beg for small ball since it means less Bonner.

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Originally Posted by EricB

Bonner has to be Benoed.

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Wow about fucking time you've finally realized it.

some random thoughts on this game:

- Way too harsh on Bonner: he played decent defense on Dirk and at least didn't try to shoot only one attempt.
- Josh Howard killed us not Barea.
- TP playig 41 mn is way too much, he doesn't have the style of game to play efficient 41 mn.
- I can't believe we lost while shooting 78% on the 3, BTW why when we sot 80% on the 3 we shot only 14 times I've seen some spurs games at less than 30% shooting with 20 - 25 attempts.
- This loss is on Pop incapacity to find a decent solution for running the point while TP is on the bench.

Bottom line, we need youth even if it is at the cost of some mental errors.

Watching Barea get into the lane at will, Bass scoring over whoever guarded him, Howard getting whatever he wanted, Dampier roughing us on the offensive boards is painful. Bowen did contain Terry to some extent and Dirk was in foul trouble, but their role players are 10X more athletic than ours.

What we needed was George Hill causing havoc on D and breaking down their D. How the F can Carlisle trust Barea while Pop can't bring himself to trust the more athletic and talented Hill? What we need is another swingman to put on Howard when it's obvious Finley can't contain him.

Pop has indeed maximized the potential of this team by winning 54 games in the regular season, but I'd have traded that for a 6 or 7 seed if it meant having more depth and youth, even if that youth has played (and even lost) some more regular season games.

When we lost 3 of the first 4 in 2006, I still liked the way we were playing and felt we could win the series. Watching this game made me question whether the Spurs would actually win the one game I predicted they would win in the series.

Our defense is simply shit. Mavs in 5. Maybe 4. This sucks.

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Originally Posted by z0sa

defending a player from unmerited personal attack doesn't = on his nutsack.

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Waiting for one example of a personal attack I've EVER made against Matt Bonner, who I am defending in this particular thread. The personal attacks started when you posted the jackass emoticon, fucktard. Don't cry about it now that you can't handle it.

You got your panties in a twist when I mentioned that failing to stop Dampier from dunking is way down on the list of shit Matt has done wrong. I've spent most of the season defending Matt, as his positional defense is usually pretty good, and he manages to get open and isn't afraid to keep taking shots. He hustles for rebounds and runs the floor hard. He didn't do any of that tonight, and you've been running around any thread you can find to go out of your way to defend him, even attempting to point at plus minus numbers, which failed miserably. Everybody that's been on tonight sees what you are doing, so trying to explain it away or distract from it by suggesting I'm being mean isn't really going to help.

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Originally Posted by Brazil

- I can't believe we lost while shooting 78% on the 3, BTW why when we sot 80% on the 3 we shot only 14 times I've seen some spurs games at less than 30% shooting with 20 - 25 attempts.

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I don't recall seeing the Spurs take a three that wasn't within the flow of the game. They were all very high quality shots, which improves the likelihood that they go in. Start looking for excuses to take them and the percentage plummets. The reason they shoot 13-36 some nights is because you almost never get 36 quality looks at a three in a game.

Only thing discomcerting here ...is that vintage games from Finley and Duncan (especially) was wasted.
Still think spurs win but the defense needs to be vintge Spurs as well ...
Mavs great game let's see if you have 7 more and hopefully we can meet in the WCF

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Waiting for one example of a personal attack I've EVER made against Matt Bonner, who I am defending in this particular thread. The personal attacks started when you posted the jackass emoticon, fucktard. Don't cry about it now that you can't handle it.

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:donkey

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You got your panties in a twist when I mentioned that failing to stop Dampier from dunking is way down on the list of shit Matt has done wrong. I've spent most of the season defending Matt, as his positional defense is usually pretty good, and he manages to get open and isn't afraid to keep taking shots. He hustles for rebounds and runs the floor hard. He didn't do any of that tonight, and you've been running around any thread you can find to go out of your way to defend him, even attempting to point at plus minus numbers, which failed miserably. Everybody that's been on tonight sees what you are doing, so trying to explain it away or distract from it by suggesting I'm being mean isn't really going to help.

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I admitted Bonner had a bad game. :huh

Again, there's a difference between critiquing a player and what's going on here - a total meltdown after a single bad playoff game, really his first. I have the right until I'm banned, to post where I want and defend whom I choose. So stop acting like you weren't being serious when you talked about that mental list of yours concerning Bonner.