Initial Reactions: Spurs vs. Mavs - Game 1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ice009

Timvp can you please explain this?

I thought Bonner was awful on the defensive end, but how can you say he played good D and say Drew wasn't as good as Bonner on the defensive end?

---

I said he played decent defense on Nowitzki. And didn't make any gross errors in that matchup. Nowtizki went around him for a dunk but Bonner was supposed to give him baseline ... there was just no help defense.

And Pop went with Bonner over Gooden because Bonner knows where to rotate on defense .... while Gooden basically just guesses. Obviously I don't think Bonner deserved those minutes but Bonner's defense is what had him playing in the fourth.

Which probably explains how poor the bigman defenders are next to Duncan. Thomas is the best of the bunch but he was playing bad too and his lack of speed makes him a bad match against the quick rotations needed.

Again, I don't condone Pop's actions or Bonner's play. I'm just explaining the reasoning.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spurs Brazil

That flop on Dampier is one of the worst plays all time in Spurs history

---

Agreed. That's the play I'll remember from this game. When Dampier got the ball, I was literally yelling at Bonner not to flop. Then he executed the worst flop in history within the charge circle and got dunked on to boot. That was just a horrible idea and a horribly executed flop.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by z0sa

He played like shit, but only a 100% through and through dumbass would think he cost us the game, or was a considerable part of the problem. Him doing nothing affects the Spurs only so much.

and i've defended bonner forever, you're foolish to think i'd do otherwise. It's too easy to defend him with all the irrational hating that goes on.

---

When a starter doesn't play any defense, gets one rebound, doesn't block shots, gets one shot attempt IN THE WHOLE GAME, doesn't draw fouls, doesn't go to the line, and plays five minutes in the fourth quarter where a four point deficit turns into a ten point deficit, only a 100 percent dumbass wouldn't think that is a considerable part of an 8 point loss.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Warlord23

All I'll say is watch the game and not the box score.

---

But that's not all you say:

Quote:

---

The way Bonner flopped,

---

Dampier mowed him over on that dunk, plain and simple. Its the playoffs and the refs didn't call it.

Quote:

---

picked up fouls,

---

He picked up 3 of his 4 fouls early, long before the Spurs built a lead and lost it. Fail.

Quote:

---

let Dirk and Bass take it right to him,

---

Bass took it right to Kurt and Finley and everyone else who guarded him, all I'll say is watch the game. Fail for singling Bonner out.

The Dirk dunk was supposed to have a defender (Finley) rotate baseline, his rotation was late.

Quote:

---

and did squat by way of boxing out (much less actually pick up some boards), he was the Mavs' MVP.

---

He had a shitty game true. Mavs MVP? You're a fool.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

That wasn't a flop, he set his feet and got knocked down.

---

No offense but that was one of the most blatant flops I've ever seen. The Spurs had a few no-calls that might have been questionable ...... but that wasn't one of them.

I think KT is our best bet to stop Bass if Duncan is on him, but believe it or not, I'm a little concerned about Barea against the Spurs.

The Spurs rotations are still a step slow. I would rather they clog the lane the rest of the way like the Lakers did to us in 2004 onward.

I would rather give the Mavs jumpers than easy layups.

that was the worst flop ive ever seen from a spur.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timvp

Agreed. That's the play I'll remember from this game. When Dampier got the ball, I was literally yelling at Bonner not to flop. Then he executed the worst flop in history within the charge circle and got dunked on to boot. That was just a horrible idea and a horribly executed flop.

---

Agreed. I could actually see the flop coming as if I were peering into his brain and you could almost see him time when he was going to go down which made the chances of him selling it decrease even more. Hell, Dampier was really just backing up as Bonner was giving ground waiting to pull off his move.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

the fourth quarter where a four point deficit turns into a ten point deficit

---

(+/-)
Finley -20
Kurt Thomas -9
Bonner -8
Parker -4

Yeah, it was all Bonner's fault. Not TP clearly tired. Not Ime and Mason on Dirk. Bonner shouldn't have been in the game, perhaps - Gooden should have.

Besides, your asking for Bonner to block shots? Defend dirk well? Tim Duncan can't defend Dirk. Bruce Bowen can't defend Dirk. I mean, the fact Finley is -20 after nailing those 3's in the end should tell you something about the root of the problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timvp

Agreed. That's the play I'll remember from this game. When Dampier got the ball, I was literally yelling at Bonner not to flop. Then he executed the worst flop in history within the charge circle and got dunked on to boot. That was just a horrible idea and a horribly executed flop.

---

When Dampier had the ball on the post I had the same felling. I just thought to myself, Bonner will get dunked, but he made it worst he floped and got dunked.

I started :cuss:cuss:cuss so loud that my sister came to my room to see if everything was OK :lol

Bonner has to be Benoed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timvp

No offense but that was one of the most blatant flops I've ever seen. The Spurs had a few no-calls that might have been questionable ...... but that wasn't one of them.

---

I wouldn't call it a total flop at all. Dampier lowered his shoulder on that last powerdribble. Was it still a nocall? Perhaps. But there seemed more than just a little contact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DDS4

The 2nd half defense was pathetic. Constant lane penetration and offensive rebounds by the Mavs, especially with Duncan and 4 guards. When Duncan had to help out, that exposed Damp and the other guys for offensive boards.

Too much TD down the stretch too. It reminded me of the stagnant O of years past.

We're gonna see a lot more of Barea....he's one of few that was able to stay in front of Parker.

---

too much TD?! seriously?! who the fuck did you want to run the offense through?!..Tony was JJ Barea's ho tonight, there's no way he should have had the ball down the stretch ahead of Tim..

"years past"? the offense hasn't changed at all, even without running it through Tim all the time..it still sucks..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EricB

Bonner has to be Benoed.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by T Park

The bonner of now, is the one many of us saw when that trade was made.

His play now just solidifies that as one of the best trades the 'chise ever made.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EricB

Bonner has to be Benoed.

---

you know bonner played horrible when his 1 fan wants him benched.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by z0sa

I wouldn't call it a total flop at all. Dampier lowered his shoulder on that last powerdribble. Was it still a nocall? Perhaps. But there seemed more than just a little contact.

---

I don't recall there being that much aggressive contact on that one. It really seemed like Bonner was setting himself up from the moment Damp started dribbling to take the charge.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Spurs Brazil

That flop on Dampier is one of the worst plays all time in Spurs history

---

:bang

I had that thankfully erased from my memory until you had to post that. :pctoss

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by timvp

No offense but that was one of the most blatant flops I've ever seen. The Spurs had a few no-calls that might have been questionable ...... but that wasn't one of them.

---

Damp got the ball and displaced Bonner to that position. Bonner finally decided to hold his ground. Call it bad defense, but he got knocked down, and by the rules it should have been an offensive foul, because Damp got the ball in the low post, so the no-charge circle isn't a factor. Hubie Brown's reaction to that call was that Bonner wasn't going to get that call because he's too young.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NewJerSpur

I don't recall there being that much aggressive contact on that one. It really seemed like Bonner was setting himself up from the moment Damp started dribbling to take the charge.

---

He was, and he's got the absolute right to set his feet in a defensive position and if Damp initiates the contact it's an offensive foul. Check the rulebook, folks. Damp didn't really lower his shoulder, but he didn't go around Bonner, he went through him. Textbook charge. Just ask Shaq.

A bunch of us are remembering that flop/non-foul(?) in different lights, that's for sure. Looked like a straight up flop IMO.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by z0sa

But that's not all you say:



Dampier mowed him over on that dunk, plain and simple. Its the playoffs and the refs didn't call it.



He picked up 3 of his 4 fouls early, long before the Spurs built a lead and lost it. Fail.



Bass took it right to Kurt and Finley and everyone else who guarded him, all I'll say is watch the game. Fail for singling Bonner out.

The Dirk dunk was supposed to have a defender (Finley) rotate baseline, his rotation was late.



He had a shitty game true. Mavs MVP? You're a fool.

---

You're just making it more obvious that you started posting after reading the freaking box score.

We should have put the game away in the first half. Bonner left the game when we had a 4 point lead. By the time he came back the lead was 9. And Dirk was in foul trouble. The Bonner comes in and sure enough, Bass gets into his offensive rhythm.

In the third quarter, Bonner shows poor rotations. Either someone is getting a wide open shot, or Dampier is getting his tip-ins when Duncan challenges a penetrating guard. Pop takes out Bonner when the Mavs build up a lead. Spurs then tie it up at 72 to end the 3rd.

4th quarter, Bonner shows up again and sure enough Dampier and Bass get bunnies regularly from then on. By the time Bonner is pulled, we're down 10 with no hope of recovery.

A lot of things didn't go well for the Spurs, but the Mavs playing 5 vs 4 with Bonner on the floor was # 1 by far.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

He was, and he's got the absolute right to set his feet in a defensive position and if Damp initiates the contact it's an offensive foul. Check the rulebook, folks. Damp didn't really lower his shoulder, but he didn't go around Bonner, he went through him. Textbook charge. Just ask Shaq.

---

He didn't lower his shoulder, you're right. He backed into him and Bonner fell down.

The dumbest part about that Bonner play is that if didn't flop (or play for the offensive foul, however you want to look at it) and just stood his ground, Dampier probably miss. Damp has no post game and his one move is an ugly hook that he usually misses. Bonner is strong enough to hold his ground against Damp and make him do anything other than dunk it on him.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NewJerSpur

He didn't lower his shoulder, you're right. He backed into him and Bonner fell down.

---

"If an offensive player causes contact with a defensive player who has estab-lished a legal position, an offensive foul shall be called and no points may be scored."

Nowhere in the NBA rulebook is there a distinction drawn between lowering one's shoulder and backing into a player. Bonner had established a legal defensive position in an area where the no-charge circle wasn't a factor. Offensive foul.

Of all the things Matt Bonner did in the game that I'm extraordinarily pissed about, that defensive job on Dampier, which resulted in only two points, is WAY fucking down on my bitch list.

Playoff games are about pressure, momentum and confidence.

The Mavs were salivating at the sight of Bonner on defense. No amount of plus-minus stats and box scores are going to show you that. No coincidence that they got into their best offensive stretches when Bonner was on the floor. Once they get into that kind of rhythm, you can't just undo it by substituting KT or Gooden for Bonner.

Bonner didn't belong on that floor today. I just hope Pop realizes this.