Spurs' Vaunted Defense Looks Sadly Vulnerable

Spurs' vaunted defense looks sadly vulnerable
David Moore
Dallas Morning News

Dirk Nowitzki is held under 20 points.

Jason Terry squeezes off only eight shots and is held seven points below his average. And still, the Mavericks score 105 points and win the game.

If I'm San Antonio, I'm worried.

The Mavericks must play good defense on Tony Parker to win this series. But what they must do, first and foremost, is make the Spurs work on the defensive end.

The Spurs' championship identity remains rooted in their defense. But the Mavericks have always given them trouble. Game 1 was no different.

San Antonio's focus this night was on Nowitzki and Terry. They double-teamed Terry off the pick-and-roll to take the ball out of his hands. They never left Nowitzki and sent an extra defender at him from the weakside.

This created space for Josh Howard and J.J. Barea to slash to the basket. It gave Antoine Wright open jumpers on the weakside.

Nowitzki and Terry didn't allow this defense to frustrate them. They adapted. Six players scored in double figures and the team shot 53.8 percent from the field.

"The key was the other guys used their freedom to our advantage," Nowitzki said.

The Spurs will make life tougher on Barea and Brandon Bass in Game 2. Bet on that. But I'm not sure what they can do with Howard.

Michael Finley can't stay with him. The Spurs' insistence on that matchup is the reason Howard finished with 25 points after a slow start. Bruce Bowen is a shadow of his former, defensive self.

My guess is San Antonio will use Ime Udoka on Howard more in Game 2. The problem there is that he won't give them as many points as Finley.

The Spurs are in a defensive bind.

The Mavericks exploited that in Game 1.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by duncan228

This created space for Josh Howard and J.J. Barea to slash to the basket. It gave Antoine Wright open jumpers on the weakside. .

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Note to Pop: It is of great benefit for a team to have more than 1 or 2 guys on the team who can create their own shot. Instead of guys whose primary skill set is chucking up 3-pt shots and allowing offensive rebounds to the opposition.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by duncan228

The Spurs will make life tougher on Barea and Brandon Bass in Game 2. Bet on that. But I'm not sure what they can do with Howard.

Michael Finley can't stay with him. The Spurs' insistence on that matchup is the reason Howard finished with 25 points after a slow start. Bruce Bowen is a shadow of his former, defensive self.

The Spurs are in a defensive bind.

The Mavericks exploited that in Game 1.

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It's an absolute disgrace that the same defensive woes that plagued the Spurs, in the matchup versus this team 3 years ago, are still prevalent today. The Spurs are in decline defensively because they have several players who in decline. They are either slow-footed, unable to move well laterally and cannot rotate well. They have a roster made up of guys who have NEVER been known for their defensive prowess. Again, this is Pop expecting players to magically excel in areas they've shown no proficiency.

The sickening thing is that the FO had ample time to plan and fix this. They elected not to. In fact, they chose to ignore it. The fact that they won a title in 2007 didn't resolve the roster flaws either. It merely hid them . We saw this on full display again last season versus the Fakers. The Spurs were routinely outhustled, outquicked and outrebounded by a younger, quicker and more athletic team. Yet all that was discussed, both locally and nationally, was Manu's injury and the impact.

Now we're all seeing, firsthand, the results of that roster negligence. The mere fact that Pop actually thought he could continue to trot out a roster of consisting primarily of older players, with similarly declining skills sets, is an indication of organizational and coaching arrogance.

I've used this analogy before and I'll use it again. The best time to put gas in the car is not when you're sitting on the side of the road with an empty tank. In that situation, you're truly behind the curve - as the Spurs are now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

Note to Pop: It is of great benefit for a team to have more than 1 or 2 guys on the team who can create their own shot. Instead of guys whose primary skill set is chucking up 3-pt shots and allowing offensive rebounds to the opposition.



It's an absolute disgrace that the same defensive woes that plagued the Spurs, in the matchup versus this team 3 years ago, are still prevalent today. The Spurs are in decline defensively because they have several players who in decline. They are either slow-footed, unable to move well laterally and cannot rotate well. They have a roster made up of guys who have NEVER been known for their defensive prowess. Again, this is Pop expecting players to magically excel in areas they've shown no proficiency.

The sickening thing is that the FO had ample time to plan and fix this. They elected not to. In fact, they chose to ignore it. The fact that they won a title in 2007 didn't resolve the roster flaws either. It merely hid them . We saw this on full display again last season versus the Fakers. The Spurs were routinely outhustled, outquicked and outrebounded by a younger, quicker and more athletic team. Yet all that was discussed, both locally and nationally, was Manu's injury and the impact.

Now we're all seeing, firsthand, the results of that roster negligence. The mere fact that Pop actually thought he could continue to trot out a roster of consisting primarily of older players, with similarly declining skills sets, is an indication of organizational and coaching arrogance.

I've used this analogy before and I'll use it again. The best time to put gas in the car is not when you're sitting on the side of the road with an empty tank. In that situation, you're truly behind the curve - as the Spurs are now.

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The spurs front office will waste Duncan's final years if they stubbornly stick with their old ways of building the roster with unathletic, slow over the hill types with no future upside potential.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by duncan228

The Spurs' championship identity remains rooted in their defense. But the Mavericks have always given them trouble. Game 1 was no different.

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Oh, if only that were true.

I love how the Mavs and their fans dilute themselves into thinking that their success against the Spurs is due to anything other than the players that Pop refuses to put into the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by duncan228

Spurs' vaunted defense looks sadly vulnerable
David Moore
Dallas Morning News

Dirk Nowitzki is held under 20 points.

Jason Terry squeezes off only eight shots and is held seven points below his average. And still, the Mavericks score 105 points and win the game.

If I'm San Antonio, I'm worried.

The Mavericks must play good defense on Tony Parker to win this series. But what they must do, first and foremost, is make the Spurs work on the defensive end.

The Spurs' championship identity remains rooted in their defense. But the Mavericks have always given them trouble. Game 1 was no different.

San Antonio's focus this night was on Nowitzki and Terry. They double-teamed Terry off the pick-and-roll to take the ball out of his hands. They never left Nowitzki and sent an extra defender at him from the weakside.

This created space for Josh Howard and J.J. Barea to slash to the basket. It gave Antoine Wright open jumpers on the weakside.

Nowitzki and Terry didn't allow this defense to frustrate them. They adapted. Six players scored in double figures and the team shot 53.8 percent from the field.

"The key was the other guys used their freedom to our advantage," Nowitzki said.

The Spurs will make life tougher on Barea and Brandon Bass in Game 2. Bet on that. But I'm not sure what they can do with Howard.

Michael Finley can't stay with him. The Spurs' insistence on that matchup is the reason Howard finished with 25 points after a slow start. Bruce Bowen is a shadow of his former, defensive self.

My guess is San Antonio will use Ime Udoka on Howard more in Game 2. The problem there is that he won't give them as many points as Finley.

The Spurs are in a defensive bind.

The Mavericks exploited that in Game 1.

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The Spurs defense played very well, except for allowing all the wide open 3s. Bass was going off last night, but every single one of his shots was contested. He was just ridiculous. We were in Dirk's face all night, but he was making the shots.

We didn't lose cause of our defense. We lost cause we couldn't make layups, missing like 10-12 of them on the night. We lost cause we were careless with the basketball late. We lost because we just stand around and watch Tony dribble instead of moving around through screens and getting open for TP to pass it.

Funny how all this panic is going to dry up in game two when the Spurs actually get a couple of calls and win the game fairly easily.

i'm not too worried about last night. the last two times the spurs won it all, they lost their very first playoff game (both times to the Nuggets) the mavs don't scare me and shouldn't scare the spurs. many two point field goals were contested. defense in the first half was great. even when the spurs were burying the mavs, they weren't shooting well. just an off night offensively and the mavs were hot. i don't expect that every game.

brandon bass will not shoot the lights out every night. it made me happy to see that terry and nowitzki were held below standard. guys like brandon bass, jj barrea, and wright don't have a consistent offense. they will come and go. but for the spurs to have been able to hold the constant scorers below standard really makes me happy.

i'm optimistic about game 2. i think the spurs will make adjustments and put it together next game.

This logic is so annoying..

IF DIRK DIDN'T HAVE FOUL TROUBLE IN THE 1ST HALF, WE WOULD HAVE LED BY MORE..Bass wouldn't have gotten those shots, and he was the reason that they came back and cut the lead..it's simple as that..

Terry was held in check, because Bowen shut him down..that isn't going to change..

our D ranked 5th in the NBA..it's all up to Pop playing the right players, instead of having a fucking Bonner-Mason-Finley combination on D..

If we could get the home calls that every other team seems to get.....if we could get the cheap calls that Dallas was getting all night, things may have been different.

Still, this isnt about the refs and it isnt even about defense.

We shot great from the line. We shot great from beyond the arc. We sucked right in front of the basket. If we finish better at the rim, we win this game by double digits.

These stupid mediots can criticize our defense all they want, but they are not paying attention to the games. If you look at all of our losses in the second half of the season.......it was our offense that disappeared in almost all of those games, not our defense. Either we were missing layups, FTs, or absolutely atrocious beyond the arc. Only a few times since the all-star break did we lose cause of our defense.

Spurs make lay ups = Spurs win

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Biggems

Spurs make lay ups = Spurs win

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Spurs get a trip to the line when legitimately hit near the basket = Spurs win.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Spurs get a trip to the line when legitimately hit near the basket = Spurs win.

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i agree.....we were getting hacked all night and no call.

first shot of the game, Dirk does a fade away and falls down like always....they call a bogus foul on us.

Bowen was shoved out of bounds from behind by dirk, who got the rb and got the putback basket.....should have been a foul on dirk

dampier shoved Duncan, Duncan caught the pass, Dampier hacked Duncan across the arms and shoved him out of bounds again........all they did was call out of bounds on the Mavs.

barea was moving sideways and flopped, they called Tony for the charge....it was clearly a block...and TP made the shot. should have been an and 1...it would have brought us to within 1 possession if he makes the FT.

Bonner was set, Dampier bowls him over, no call.....Dunk for Dampier.......now this one, I didnt mind as much. I wish they would let the big boys play down low a bit more.....the only reason this no call bothered me, was cause of all the tick tack fouls they called on us all night long.

Defense is what's going to give the this Spurs team the best chance of winning.

Tony Parker did look tired and Barea may have gotten into his head. What i didn't like seeing is the same approach to defending his man that we have seen all too often this season. Allowing Barea way too much space espcially off the dribble. Tony needs to get on his grill more instead of back-peddling away too far. It's well and good to stay in front of your man but not if it's going to give the oppo PG all the room in the world to do what-ever he chooses especially when he attacking the key-way. Whether to play up on a guy or backoff and when to apply it - every man (team) is different. The balancing act is up to Tony to recognize and adjust to.


My second rant is to Roger Mason. My initial reaction to this guy's D was he in pedestrian mode.. stop cruising when moving around screens and chasing your man. Who-ever Roger was guarding usually got a 1 to 2 step headstart and his response to that was to casually play catch-up. Take a leaf out of Bowen's book, this is the play-offs. Funny part is he showed a lot more determination in foot speed when running up the other end on a fast break attempt.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Biggems

i agree.....we were getting hacked all night and no call.

first shot of the game, Dirk does a fade away and falls down like always....they call a bogus foul on us.

Bowen was shoved out of bounds from behind by dirk, who got the rb and got the putback basket.....should have been a foul on dirk

dampier shoved Duncan, Duncan caught the pass, Dampier hacked Duncan across the arms and shoved him out of bounds again........all they did was call out of bounds on the Mavs.

barea was moving sideways and flopped, they called Tony for the charge....it was clearly a block...and TP made the shot. should have been an and 1...it would have brought us to within 1 possession if he makes the FT.

Bonner was set, Dampier bowls him over, no call.....Dunk for Dampier.......now this one, I didnt mind as much. I wish they would let the big boys play down low a bit more.....the only reason this no call bothered me, was cause of all the tick tack fouls they called on us all night long.

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blah, blah, blah....not this again.

There were bad calls both ways and they even out. Maybe if Pop and the Spurs players wouldn't whine so much about calls (second only maybe to Dan Tony), the fans wouldn't think they were screwed by the refs every time they lose a game. Hilarious that Spurs fans would even mention flopping and ticky-tack fouls. :rollin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rascal

The spurs front office will waste Duncan's final years if they stubbornly stick with their old ways of building the roster with unathletic, slow over the hill types with no future upside potential.

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This is what I fear. In that respect, I feel really bad for Duncan.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigBinBigD

blah, blah, blah....not this again.

There were bad calls both ways and they even out. Maybe if Pop and the Spurs players wouldn't whine so much about calls (second only maybe to Dan Tony), the fans wouldn't think they were screwed by the refs every time they lose a game. Hilarious that Spurs fans would even mention flopping and ticky-tack fouls. :rollin

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You're an idiot, but I forgive you, since as a Mavs fan, you aren't equipped to be able to actually recognize bad officiating when you see it. The most damning evidence is that a Mavs van thinks the calls were even

I have a sick feeling the Mavs win again tonight with a last second shot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Biggems

i agree.....we were getting hacked all night and no call.

first shot of the game, Dirk does a fade away and falls down like always....they call a bogus foul on us.

Bowen was shoved out of bounds from behind by dirk, who got the rb and got the putback basket.....should have been a foul on dirk

dampier shoved Duncan, Duncan caught the pass, Dampier hacked Duncan across the arms and shoved him out of bounds again........all they did was call out of bounds on the Mavs.

barea was moving sideways and flopped, they called Tony for the charge....it was clearly a block...and TP made the shot. should have been an and 1...it would have brought us to within 1 possession if he makes the FT.

Bonner was set, Dampier bowls him over, no call.....Dunk for Dampier.......now this one, I didnt mind as much. I wish they would let the big boys play down low a bit more.....the only reason this no call bothered me, was cause of all the tick tack fouls they called on us all night long.

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In your eyes, does your team ever legitimately lose a game? Or is it always because of the officiating?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tmtcsc

I have a sick feeling the Mavs win again tonight with a last second shot.

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Indigestion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

This is what I fear. In that respect, I feel really bad for Duncan.

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I don't feel bad for Duncan at all. Duncan goes along with the front office and doesn't make a play for more athletic help.

Just this last trade deadline Duncan said the team was all right the way they were and made no push for the front office to make the deal to get Camby, R Wallace or Carter who the spurs had some sort of shot or interest in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tmtcsc

I have a sick feeling the Mavs win again tonight with a last second shot.

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Doubt it. Spurs should take game two by a few points because they are more desperate than Dallas.

Blaming the refs for game 1 is fucking weak.

Spurs defense = suns defense.


mavs gonna cut through it like a hot knife through butter

Spurs are going to adjust and win game 2. Book it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Indigestion.

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:rollin I hope you're right. Maybe it was that taco I ate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Biggems

i agree.....we were getting hacked all night and no call.

first shot of the game, Dirk does a fade away and falls down like always....they call a bogus foul on us.

Bowen was shoved out of bounds from behind by dirk, who got the rb and got the putback basket.....should have been a foul on dirk

dampier shoved Duncan, Duncan caught the pass, Dampier hacked Duncan across the arms and shoved him out of bounds again........all they did was call out of bounds on the Mavs.

barea was moving sideways and flopped, they called Tony for the charge....it was clearly a block...and TP made the shot. should have been an and 1...it would have brought us to within 1 possession if he makes the FT.

Bonner was set, Dampier bowls him over, no call.....Dunk for Dampier.......now this one, I didnt mind as much. I wish they would let the big boys play down low a bit more.....the only reason this no call bothered me, was cause of all the tick tack fouls they called on us all night long.

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Thats the best you've got....is blaming the refs, weak:rollin

This guy hasn't been keeping up with Spurs basketball this year.

He's right...that's where it all starts. The Mavericks are far from a better team. But if they win, it's because we're missing all our assignments.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by duncan228

Spurs' vaunted defense looks sadly vulnerable
David Moore
Dallas Morning News


Michael Finley can't stay with him. The Spurs' insistence on that matchup is the reason Howard finished with 25 points after a slow start. Bruce Bowen is a shadow of his former, defensive self.


The Spurs are in a defensive bind.

The Mavericks exploited that in Game 1.

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Well hello genius......

We sit a guy all season long, play him sporadically and then expect him to magically pick up where he left off on the defensive end? All that, and he's a year older? Geez.

As early as 2005 I was screaming that the Spurs needed to find someone to start grooming for Bruce's position. So we pick up Udoka, and promptly send him to the end of the bench too.

Now Pop is left grasping at straws hoping that one of these old guys can hold down the fort at their positions. The sad truth is that they cannot. Oh sure, they'll have the occasional game where everything clicks, but those are too few and far in between.

Vulnerable that night, kind of. More illprepared, or for Dallas, lucky.

I don't see Howard, Bass, Barea, and Damp carrying the team again if we stay with the same defensive scheme.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shank

In your eyes, does your team ever legitimately lose a game? Or is it always because of the officiating?

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thank you for neglecting to read all of my posts in this thread. i was responding to a poster that said we got the short side of the calls and i was agreeing with him and giving examples....

i have continuously stated, that had the Spurs made their layups, they win this game.....please pay attention and stop trying to read and pick out only what you want to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigBinBigD

blah, blah, blah....not this again.

There were bad calls both ways and they even out. Maybe if Pop and the Spurs players wouldn't whine so much about calls (second only maybe to Dan Tony), the fans wouldn't think they were screwed by the refs every time they lose a game. Hilarious that Spurs fans would even mention flopping and ticky-tack fouls. :rollin

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Spurs dont flop all that much anymore. Manu hasnt really flopped in 2 years. Hell, this year he was hardly on the court enough to flop.

It is nice of you to find one singular post of mine in this thread to call me out on. Why didn't you call me out in other posts where I said we lost cause we couldnt make our layups. We missed 10-12 layups...we make those, we win the game easily. But no, you simply pick and choose which posts you want to reply to....I was using the post you questioned in to discuss the calls I feel we got shafted on. I never claimed that is why we lost the game......but your jaded reading comprehension says otherwise.

next time, try reading the entire thread before making silly assumptions and accusations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sribb43

Thats the best you've got....is blaming the refs, weak:rollin

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ok for the 3rd time, and it has become apparent that the reading comprehension of Mavs fans is considerably lacking.

Show me where in that post that I said those calls cost us the game? You cant cause I didnt say that. I merely was discussing with a fellow Spurs fan, the calls I felt the refs screwed us on. I never claimed the refs cost us the game. I have stated in other posts in this thread and other threads that we lost cause we missed so many layups. We make our layups and we win the game going away.

You confuse criticizing the refs for blaming the refs.....two different things.

I criticized the refs, but blamed the Spurs. Please figure out the difference, and please read the entire thread before coming back with your weak sauce of a comment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Biggems

ok for the 3rd time, and it has become apparent that the reading comprehension of Mavs fans is considerably lacking.

Show me where in that post that I said those calls cost us the game? You cant cause I didnt say that. I merely was discussing with a fellow Spurs fan, the calls I felt the refs screwed us on. I never claimed the refs cost us the game. I have stated in other posts in this thread and other threads that we lost cause we missed so many layups. We make our layups and we win the game going away.

You confuse criticizing the refs for blaming the refs.....two different things.

I criticized the refs, but blamed the Spurs. Please figure out the difference, and please read the entire thread before coming back with your weak sauce of a comment.

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Whatever you say, man. Where's the same criticism for calls that didn't go the Mavs way? Certainly that would have had something to do with the outcome, as well.

And "make our layups and win the the game going away"?? Please. Is that on top of shooting that amazing 3pt %? Give and take, brother. You can't have it all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shank

Whatever you say, man. Where's the same criticism for calls that didn't go the Mavs way? Certainly that would have had something to do with the outcome, as well.

And "make our layups and win the the game going away"?? Please. Is that on top of shooting that amazing 3pt %? Give and take, brother. You can't have it all.

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if there are calls you feel went against the Mavs, bring them up...you are free to do so in this forum.....I am sure there were some calls and no calls that went for the Spurs, but I promise, not nearly as many that went the way of the Mavs.

3pt shooting is a luxury. We shot very well beyond the arc. We shot very well at the FT line.....what is give and take about layups? it is a point blank shot...I am sorry but if you are in the NBA, you should shoot an outstanding percentage right at the rim....So dont give me the give and take nonsense. If it were the other way around....and they made their layups, but missed their 3s, I would agree with you. 3s are definitely a lower % shot.

So yes, we make our layups and we win the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Agloco

As early as 2005 I was screaming that the Spurs needed to find someone to start grooming for Bruce's position. So we pick up Udoka, and promptly send him to the end of the bench too.

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So was I. I know the Spurs ran all manner of spares through here during that time. I also know they made a play for Batum in the draft. However as critical as Bowen and his skills, have become to the Spurs defensive scheme, finding a successor should've been top priority. There were all sorts of options they could've explored (Balkman, Ariza, Pietrus). Instead Pop wanted players who could generate more offense.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Agloco

Now Pop is left grasping at straws hoping that one of these old guys can hold down the fort at their positions. The sad truth is that they cannot. Oh sure, they'll have the occasional game where everything clicks, but those are too few and far in between.

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Damn frustrating, isn't it. There is no question that having productive veterans on the team is an absolute advanatage. However, it's imperative that those veterans have some "shelf-life" left.

That said, how many more playoff calamities does this coaching staff and FO going to endure before they realize they MUST invest in some more younger, better skilled players? By the way, we've seen who the energy guys are on the Mavs. Who are the energy guys on the Spurs?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shank

Whatever you say, man. Where's the same criticism for calls that didn't go the Mavs way?

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I don't know, maybe a Mavericks message board? :donkey

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sribb43

Thats the best you've got....is blaming the refs, weak:rollin

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No. I blame the planets for aligning and giving Dampier, Barea, and Bass the clarity to play out of their minds on the same night. :rolleyes:rolleyes

Akin to a comet that passes through the solar system about once every thousand years or so.

Dick Bavetta is known as a home-team friendly ref. If Dirk can get away with seven fouls in the first half with almost no punishment, and Duncan can't buy a call on legitimate fouls against Erick Dampier, you're goddamn right I'm gonna blame the refs.

BTW, the next time Barea flops in this series will be the first time I've seen him do it. His defense on Parker has zero to do with my complaints.

Texas 2 Step is not far off, although I wouldn't exactly say the Spurs' defense "sucked". It just hasn't been like it's "vaunted" defensive teams of 1998 through 2005-06.

Although the Spurs ranked 2nd in points allowed, they are only 7th in Point Diff. and 9th in Opp. FG% (.453). The Spurs are 24th at guarding the 3-point arc (.379), which is not a heavily weighted category but far from the leadership in that area: 1. Cleveland .333, 2. Orlando .342, 3. LA Lakers .345.

I'm sorry, but the "vaunted" D hasn't been around for 3 years...and it got by with outscoring it's opponents, great effort from 10 players playing 10+ min./game and some good fortune in the '07 championship run.

There has been a fine line between wins and losses this season for the Spurs. In game 1, the Spurs scored 97 points, their average for the season. They just can't win many games allowing 97+.

Face it. The Spurs can be spoilers but the road is filled with land-mines and they currently don't have the individual talent to put on the floor to expect a championship in '09. Great teamwork is it's only hope.

At least now those geniuses who wanted the Spurs to rid themselves of Bruce during the peak defensive years are getting their fill of what the result would have been like.

Premature story after one game.

we ranked 5th in the NBA in D this year..if our D sucked, then wow, I don't even wanna imagine how bad the rest of the league was defensively..

at some point, we were going to have to re-tool..the time is now..we have plenty of expiring contracts these next 2 off-seasons, so there's no excuse..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

we ranked 5th in the NBA in D this year..if our D sucked, then wow, I don't even wanna imagine how bad the rest of the league was defensively..

at some point, we were going to have to re-tool..the time is now..we have plenty of expiring contracts these next 2 off-seasons, so there's no excuse..

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except there is no extra money. The pockets are not lined, and spurs are incredibly lucky they landed Tim Duncan. Any other superstar, like DRob etc, doesn't take the absolute minimum to playoff after playoff AND expectations of a ship like Tim's teams.

we have the MLE, and we have the ability to package multiple expiring contracts that end in the big free agent pool of 2010..in this state, there will be buyers..

it's obviously up to the front office and whether or not they'll wait until 2010, or start this off-season..it would be foolish to waste another year of Duncan..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

Note to Pop: It is of great benefit for a team to have more than 1 or 2 guys on the team who can create their own shot. Instead of guys whose primary skill set is chucking up 3-pt shots and allowing offensive rebounds to the opposition.



It's an absolute disgrace that the same defensive woes that plagued the Spurs, in the matchup versus this team 3 years ago, are still prevalent today. The Spurs are in decline defensively because they have several players who in decline. They are either slow-footed, unable to move well laterally and cannot rotate well. They have a roster made up of guys who have NEVER been known for their defensive prowess. Again, this is Pop expecting players to magically excel in areas they've shown no proficiency.

The sickening thing is that the FO had ample time to plan and fix this. They elected not to. In fact, they chose to ignore it. The fact that they won a title in 2007 didn't resolve the roster flaws either. It merely hid them . We saw this on full display again last season versus the Fakers. The Spurs were routinely outhustled, outquicked and outrebounded by a younger, quicker and more athletic team. Yet all that was discussed, both locally and nationally, was Manu's injury and the impact.

Now we're all seeing, firsthand, the results of that roster negligence. The mere fact that Pop actually thought he could continue to trot out a roster of consisting primarily of older players, with similarly declining skills sets, is an indication of organizational and coaching arrogance.

I've used this analogy before and I'll use it again. The best time to put gas in the car is not when you're sitting on the side of the road with an empty tank. In that situation, you're truly behind the curve - as the Spurs are now.

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Uh....the Spurs FO *DID* sign several key additions in the last 1-2 years to get younger and more athletic: Roger Mason, George Hill, Ime Udoka, Matt Bonner, Drew Gooden. They also signed or attempted to sign several people from overseas: namely Splitter and Mahinmi -- they just haven't panned out yet.

If you're going to criticize the Spurs FO get the facts straight. You can criticize WHO they signed but you certainly can't say they haven't tried to get younger.

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Originally Posted by Biggems

Spurs dont flop all that much anymore. Manu hasnt really flopped in 2 years. Hell, this year he was hardly on the court enough to flop.

It is nice of you to find one singular post of mine in this thread to call me out on. Why didn't you call me out in other posts where I said we lost cause we couldnt make our layups. We missed 10-12 layups...we make those, we win the game easily. But no, you simply pick and choose which posts you want to reply to....I was using the post you questioned in to discuss the calls I feel we got shafted on. I never claimed that is why we lost the game......but your jaded reading comprehension says otherwise.

next time, try reading the entire thread before making silly assumptions and accusations.

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The spurs don't flop much because Manu is not playing. He was responsible for 90% of r the team's flops. Glad a spurs fan admits to their flopping past.

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Originally Posted by sribb43

Thats the best you've got....is blaming the refs, weak:rollin

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man, the spurs have been blaming the refs for the past 10 years.

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Originally Posted by pimptaddy

The spurs don't flop much because Manu is not playing. He was responsible for 90% of r the team's flops. Glad a spurs fan admits to their flopping past.

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i have never denied we flopped....i did say, we were not as bad as the Kings....and i also have stated that flopping didnt start with Vlade.....

Doc Rivers, Dennis Rodman, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Reggie Miller, Sam Cassell, and Bill Laimbeer were all legendary floppers. Sadly, Ben Wallace is a flopper as well.

Right now some of the biggest floppers are Paul, Varajao, Nash, Bell, Dirk, Gasol, Fisher, and AK47.


but to be honest, i dont blame defenders for flopping....the league has taken away pretty much every other move for defenders to use....they have to do something to counteract all the countless calls the offensive players get away with.

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Originally Posted by Supergirl

Uh....the Spurs FO *DID* sign several key additions in the last 1-2 years to get younger and more athletic: Roger Mason, George Hill, Ime Udoka, Matt Bonner, Drew Gooden. They also signed or attempted to sign several people from overseas: namely Splitter and Mahinmi -- they just haven't panned out yet.

If you're going to criticize the Spurs FO get the facts straight. You can criticize WHO they signed but you certainly can't say they haven't tried to get younger.

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The mere fact that you included Matt Bonner in a thread regarding athletic players sullies your whole point. Mason and Udoka are fine additions. Both good role players and we're happy to have them. Yet, both lack the necessary length, skill and defensive capabilities that would make them lockdown defenders. That is, in part, what the Spurs are missing.

All that aside, the fact remains there is STILL a gaping hole at that position. Here we are with Bowen and Finley both near the end and there is still no answer at the spot. In the end, all that matters is a team having the ability to get stops when needed and winning certain matchups against the opponent. At this time, the Spurs are overmatched at that 3 spot, regardless of opponent, on a game-by-game basis.

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Originally Posted by Biggems

i have never denied we flopped....i did say, we were not as bad as the Kings....and i also have stated that flopping didnt start with Vlade.....

Doc Rivers, Dennis Rodman, Karl Malone, John Stockton, Reggie Miller, Sam Cassell, and Bill Laimbeer were all legendary floppers. Sadly, Ben Wallace is a flopper as well.

Right now some of the biggest floppers are Paul, Varajao, Nash, Bell, Dirk, Gasol, Fisher, and AK47.


but to be honest, i dont blame defenders for flopping....the league has taken away pretty much every other move for defenders to use....they have to do something to counteract all the countless calls the offensive players get away with.

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Dirk is not a big flopper. Now devin harris was and Manu sure the hell is one. All time guys are as you said, Lambier, Miller, rodman, malone stockton. Want to get a team that was all time flop...I would say the 1990's Jazz. malone and stockton were so pathetic with their flopping.

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Originally Posted by pimptaddy

Dirk is not a big flopper. Now devin harris was and Manu sure the hell is one. All time guys are as you said, Lambier, Miller, rodman, malone stockton. Want to get a team that was all time flop...I would say the 1990's Jazz. malone and stockton were so pathetic with their flopping.

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Dirk doesnt flop on defense..but he does flop and flail on offense....he is always throwing himself to the ground.

like the first foul of the game....he wasnt even touched. He shot a fade away and fell down like he always does....and the refs blew the whistle.

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Originally Posted by Biggems

Dirk doesnt flop on defense..but he does flop and flail on offense....he is always throwing himself to the ground.

like the first foul of the game....he wasnt even touched. He shot a fade away and fell down like he always does....and the refs blew the whistle.

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What about manu?