Obama: Truth commission is a mistake

Obama: Truth commission is a mistake.

At a White House meeting Thursday, President Obama told Congressional leaders that he thinks it would be a mistake to set up a commission to investigate excesses of the Bush administration’s war on terror.

“The president said that given all that’s on the agenda and the pressing issues facing the country, that a backward-looking investigation would not be productive,” a White House official who attended the session said. “The president was very clear…that he believes it’s important that there’s not a witch hunt.”



I agree with Obama on this one.

I see he's fine-tuning his position.

Obama's judgments that Congressionally led investigations are politically inexpedient and that the timing is bad are no doubt correct.

I doubt Obama can really do anything to shut Congress down if it is set on its course, but that is not really clear right now.

IMO this is best left to an independent prosecutor or the DOJ, but I have no great hopes for either.

It's amazing to me the same right wing who hounded Clinton for 8yrs and supported an independent investigator are silent now when it comes to Bush. Clinton may have had character flaws but he never misled us to war. So now right wingers have the stance that a president should be investigated over personal issues but not for starting a very controversial and quite possibly an unecessary war. Nice logic...

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Originally Posted by George Gervin's Afro

It's amazing to me the same right wing who hounded Clinton for 8yrs and supported an independent investigator are silent now when it comes to Bush. Clinton may have had character flaws but he never misled us to war. So now right wingers have the stance that a president should be investigated over personal issues but not for starting a very controversial and quite possibly an unecessary war. Nice logic...

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You're right that Clinton getting hummers and how we got in Iraq are vastly different, but it's not about that. It's all about "my side, your side" politics. Your side needs to be investigaged, my side doesn't. Kudos to Obama here for trying to stay above that fray.

I think Obama is worried that if he sets up a truth commission the GOP will try and roadblock all his legislative attempts to try and keep our economy from melting down Argentina style...


....oh wait.....

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

I think Obama is worried that if he sets up a truth commission the GOP will try and roadblock all his legislative attempts to try and keep our economy from melting down Argentina style...


....oh wait.....

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The bailout spending can all be back-doored through the TARP or emergency stabilization measures, but the next stimulus can't be,nor environmental regulation, nor health care reform, etc., etc..

Torture is still radioactive, and right now, bad as torture is, we have bigger fish to fry. Apparently, the truth will have to wait, and whenever it does come it will still be a food fight of dire proportions.

As long as the GOP continues to cater ideologically to the Rush-crowd they will continue to dwell in meltdown mode...what we need is unity behind a democratic congressional front and letting torture sit on the back burner is just philosophically wrong...I really, really think that Obama is looking at Afghanistan and Pakistan being increasingly taken over by the Taliban and does not want to fight this battle while there are still boots on the ground....

I think enough is going to come out in the house and senate hearings to get a pretty firm idea what happened. A commission would open a whole different can of partisan worms, and there would necessarily be less control of the process by the Democrats. Obama can help steer the current process whatever way he wants by unclassifying information.

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

..what we need is unity behind a democratic congressional front and letting torture sit on the back burner is just philosophically wrong...

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Politically it's the right thing to do. Expedience is God.

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

I really, really think that Obama is looking at Afghanistan and Pakistan being increasingly taken over by the Taliban and does not want to fight this battle while there are still boots on the ground....

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Off topic: Then why did Obama just send 17,000 more troops there?

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Then why did Obama just send 17,000 more troops there?

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He learned his lesson in Iraq...sending more troops is a short-term fix that would only costs us a lot of money, more dead troops and not much else...

Was that an answer?

Regardless, what makes you Obama *learned his lesson*?

..the fact that he didn't put in the 50k+ troops that would be necessary to topple the Taliban in Afghanistan and begin strategic operations in Western Pakistan...

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

..the fact that he didn't put in the 50k+ troops that would be necessary to topple the Taliban in Afghanistan and begin strategic operations in Western Pakistan...

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50k+ according to whom?

...so you think 32K U.S. troops is enough?

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

...so you think 32K U.S. troops is enough?

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I don't know. I am not a military planner.

I asked you where you got the 50k+ number.

I will ask you again.

Where did you get the 50k+ number?

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Where did you get the 50k+ number?

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..Im just estimating, but I think its a fairly realistic if they wanted to go into Pakistan....

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

..Im just estimating, but I think its a fairly realistic if they wanted to go into Pakistan....

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And upon what are you basing this estimate?

...the number of Taliban and sympathetic jihadists in Pakistan...

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

...the number of Taliban and sympathetic jihadists in Pakistan...

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And what is that number?

...way more than 32K...

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

...way more than 32K...

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So you don't actually have a number?

Wouldn't it be way easier to say "I don't know. I pulled the number out of the air"?

....if Obama was committed to Afghanistan he would have sent in more brigades...the Taliban are now in control of parts of Pakistan just 50 miles from the capital Islamabad...

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

Wouldn't it be way easier to say "I don't know. I pulled the number out of the air"?

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It sure wouldn't be as much fun.

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

Wouldn't it be way easier to say "I don't know. I pulled the number out of the air"?

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Actually, that a conservative figure...the real figure would ultimately be much higher...

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

Actually, that a conservative figure...the real figure would ultimately be much higher...

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Then, wouldn't it be easier to say "I don't know. I pulled that conservative figure out of the air"?

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

Actually, that a conservative figure...the real figure would ultimately be much higher...

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Based upon what?

...based on the 3-1 military superiority scale when it comes to fighting insurgencies....

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

...based on the 3-1 military superiority scale when it comes to fighting insurgencies....

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And what is the number of insurgents?

....don't know, but they scared the shit out of the Pakistani military....

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

Actually, that a conservative figure...the real figure would ultimately be much higher...

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Likely. But the real number of troops needed would likely be politically unsupportable, as with Iraq.

The *real number* might also be an operational impossibility.

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

Likely. But the real number of troops needed would likely be politically unsupportable, as with Iraq.

The *real number* might also be an operational impossibility.

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None-the-less the number would be much greater than the number there now, even with the recent build-up by Obama...

...Obama would love to go after Al Queda in Pakistan, as well as the Taliban, but not as long as there are 140K troops in IRaq...

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

....don't know

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Was that so difficult for you to say?

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but they scared the shit out of the Pakistani military....

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I don't know if that is the correct characterization. I'm sure there are many elements in the military that don't mind the Taliban at all.

It's an awful mess. I wish there was some way we could extricate our dicks from the crack they're caught in. Wars are much tougher to conclude than to start, particularly without clear, achievable goals.

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I don't know if that is the correct characterization. I'm sure there are many elements in the military that don't mind the Taliban at all.

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..so, the Taliban have infiltrated the Pakistan army?

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Originally Posted by Winehole23

It's an awful mess. I wish there was some way we could extricate our dicks from the crack they're caught in. Wars are much tougher to conclude than to start, particularly without clear, achievable goals.

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....the goal was almost achievable prior to 9/11...people were sympathetic to the jihadists cause but they were also tired of all the killings...Al Queda, or what we today call Al Queda, was on the brink of ideological collapse...

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

..so, the Taliban have infiltrated the Pakistan army?

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I wouldn't say that. I can certainly believe there could be members of the Pakistani military that sympathize with the Taliban, at the least.

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

..so, the Taliban have infiltrated the Pakistan army?

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This is widely acknowledged, I think. They might be in charge again someday. It's only prudent for them to play both sides of the fence.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I wouldn't say that. I can certainly believe there could be members of the Pakistani military that sympathize with the Taliban, at the least.

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Yeah, the ISI, they supported the Taliban against the Soviets....it's how we got stingers to them...

Correction: Infiltrated, no. Playing both sides of the fence, yes.

Pakistan needs our full attention and NOW!

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Originally Posted by JoeChalupa

Pakistan needs our full attention and NOW!

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Right. I hope all the board neocons now realize what a stupid mistake Iraq was, though I won't expect an admission.

Our best hope is that we can get out of Iraq so they can get on with the process of killing each other and we can better deal with actual threats to the US.

I think Obama is re-examining the premise that killing terrorists is best done by war..

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Right. I hope all the board neocons now realize what a stupid mistake Iraq was, though I won't expect an admission.

Our best hope is that we can get out of Iraq so they can get on with the process of killing each other and we can better deal with actual threats to the US.

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The most ironic notion of all is that a war which was started under threats of mushroom clouds being our smoking gun may have diverted attention from the real danger of having nuclear weapons fall into the hands of people like the Taliban.

The danger in Pakistan is incredible and substantial and meanwhile we stopped no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.

How is every fucking Neocon not aware of this?

I agree that Afghanistan/Pakistan is a much more important problem than Iraq ever was. That said, it's probably not the best time for a Bush admin witch hunt. So, I agree with Obama on his new and improved position.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

I agree that Afghanistan/Pakistan is a much more important problem than Iraq ever was. That said, it's probably not the best time for a Bush admin witch hunt. So, I agree with Obama on his new and improved position.

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I don't give a shit about a political show that congress may or may not put on but I damn sure don't care about the potential inconvenience of bringing assholes who broke the law to justice.

I think congress should focus once again on steroids in pro sports. I mean isn't it about time?

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

I don't give a shit about a political show that congress may or may not put on but I damn sure don't care about the potential inconvenience of bringing assholes who broke the law to justice.

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Be careful what you go looking for. Some of these assholes might have a (D.) after their name. That's REALLY why there is now opposition to this. Either way, I'm not losing sleep over it, I just think the country has more pressing problems.

I think Vice President Cheney's daughter, a former assisstant Secretary of State, adequately destroyed the left's arguments on this matter...

See the video at:

Cheney smacksdown O'Donnell

She takes Norah O'Donnell to school on the whole matter.

In addition to the superb defense of enhanced interrogation techniques, I find it interesting how argumentive O'Donnell became in trying to maintain the left's narrative in this debate.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

Be careful what you go looking for. Some of these assholes might have a (D.) after their name.

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I don't care.

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

I think Vice President Cheney's daughter, a former assisstant Secretary of State, adequately destroyed the left's arguments on this matter...

See the video at:

Cheney smacksdown O'Donnell

She takes Norah O'Donnell to school on the whole matter.

In addition to the superb defense of enhanced interrogation techniques, I find it interesting how argumentive O'Donnell became in trying to maintain the left's narrative in this debate.

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:lol

She lied ten seconds into her first answer. A bald-faced, verifiable lie.

Guess she wanted to get the fail out of the way.

The apple didn't fall far from the tree.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

Be careful what you go looking for. Some of these assholes might have a (D.) after their name. That's REALLY why there is now opposition to this. Either way, I'm not losing sleep over it, I just think the country has more pressing problems.

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You think I give a shit if the fuckers who endorsed torture are democrats? What the fuck?

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

You think I give a shit if the fuckers who endorsed torture are democrats? What the fuck?

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No, but your hero does.

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

No, but your hero does.

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i don't have a hero.

do you?

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I don't care.

:lol

She lied ten seconds into her first answer. A bald-faced, verifiable lie.

Guess she wanted to get the fail out of the way.

The apple didn't fall far from the tree.

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what did she lie about?

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Originally Posted by gtownspur

what did she lie about?

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The torture was authorized before the legal rationale for it was completed.

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Originally Posted by gtownspur

what did she lie about?

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I was wondering the same thing.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

The torture was authorized before the legal rationale for it was completed.

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It wasn't torture! Maybe since it was questioned, they wanted a complete legal opinion on the matter.

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Originally Posted by Wild Cobra

It wasn't torture!

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We sentenced a Japanese officer 15 years hard labor for doing it in World War II.

We court martialled US soldiers for doing it in two wars.

We sentenced US sheriffs and deputies to prison sentences for doing it.

What precisely is your legal precedent proving it is not torture and a criminal offense?

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Maybe since it was questioned, they wanted a complete legal opinion on the matter.

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They wanted someone to say it was ok after they authorized it. They ignored all the arguments and warnings from the military saying it was wrong.

99.9 percent of the human race would do what ever they had to do to save a love ones life. That includes Obama. Silly silly silly. Again he does not want to talk about the trillion. He does what got him there. Bash Bush. LOL at waterboarding to get info out of people.

"what, you know when and where the USA will be attack...why won't you tell us......okay, its cool.....would like a sandwich"

Some of you are soooooooooo into yourselves it makes me laugh.

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Originally Posted by jack sommerset

LOL at waterboarding to get info out of people.

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I do laugh at it. It doesn't appear to work.

dubya warned that no captured American was to be tortured (or else), while dubya tortured his captured.

American exceptionalism, the rules apply to the rest of the world that don't apply to USA.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I do laugh at it. It doesn't appear to work.

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so the release all the memos concerning it's efficacy, rather than taking someones word for it.

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

The torture was authorized before the legal rationale for it was completed.

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by the nsc, what says otherwise?

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CHENEY: Therefore, the tactics are not torture. We did not torture. The memos laid out the extent of exactly how far we could go before it would become torture, because it was important we not cross that line into torture.

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if this is so, we need to know the full extent of all the memos about the procedures and their efficacy before making a pro or con argument.

relying on the huffington post doesn't cut it.

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Originally Posted by Ignignokt

so the release all the memos concerning it's efficacy, rather than taking someones word for it.

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Memos that say "it is our understanding" do not constitute proof of anything.

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Originally Posted by Ignignokt

by the nsc, what says otherwise?

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What else needs to be said?

Screw Obama. Doesn't the new administration want transparency? :P

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Originally Posted by DarrinS

Be careful what you go looking for. Some of these assholes might have a (D.) after their name. That's REALLY why there is now opposition to this. Either way, I'm not losing sleep over it, I just think the country has more pressing problems.

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The way I see it, if people don't have to suffer for their mistakes, what's to stop them?

Isn't that the belief behind the Tea Parties? The reason behind being against the bailouts?

Except in this case, if we investigate and find something, it will be a benefit to getting these fucksticks out of office, as opposed to letting the world's financial makeup collapse by not bailing out the banks (which I am ideologically opposed to as well.)

(faulty link)

30 to 50 illegal aliens in the country and obama gives them the nod, and then the Obama administration is trying to convince us they're intrested in the "LAW". Obama set the situation up and now is playing like it's not him doing this witch hunt it's the justice department it's congress.Well finally obamiwan is deliverying on one campagin promise transparancy .. this is a transparent attempt to put the focus on the last administration so we don't focus on the faliures of this one. By the way everyone in America knew these shits were being tortured, the only suprise is that it wasn't worse. We all knew it and supported it after the events of 9/11.I hope the Obama adminsitration prosecutes this line, it will send the people over the top. I particularlly like the part of pelosi's bald face lies about not knowing anything about this.

Wow.

That made no sense at all.

:tu