Why are you surprised?

This thread is not designed to anger people who are already hurt about losing so please don't take it that way, but it is in response to all the irrational anger ("fire Pop!", "trade Timmy!", "trade Tony!", "trade the entire team!", "burn down the AT&T centre!!!") that is currently dominating this forum.

Are you really surprised by these results? I'm not in the slightest. We were a first round flame-out waiting to happen, as I and a number of other more rational fans pointed out a fortnight ago (and were unreasonably castigated for it). I'm not happy we're losing, I'm as disappointed as anyone, but I'm not surprised nor angry about it - in sport, as in life, there is always a loser, and sometimes it has to be us.

Exhibit 1: no Manu.
Exhibit 2: a less than 100% Tim.
Exhibit 3: no 2009 SPAM in evidence.
Exhibit 4: a team reliant on hot 3pt-shooting to win.
Exhibit 5: a coach confused by his own rotations (ie. desperately juggling his players to find any kind of consistently functional rotation).

I could go on with more evidence that was available to all weeks ago, but who needs to? Losing to the Mavs as we have been is absolutely no surprise whatsoever. Does it hurt? Sure. Is it a good reason to behave like a bunch of petulant 3 year olds? Not in your life.

Disappointed expectations are often the cause of emotional pain - release yourself from expectation, examine a situation rationally, and you can usually avoid this sort of nonsense. Then again, this is an internet forum, so I shouldn't be surprised by the garbage that gets flung around... ;)

I'm surprised they didn't even come to play in Game 3.

Talent wise (with or without Manu) the series should probably be 2-2. I thought it would be extremely competitive. The Spurs are getting beat by the Mavs role players... the Mavs stars having even played that well yet. The Spurs role players haven't done anything in the series.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

I'm surprised they didn't even come to play in Game 3.

Talent wise (with or without Manu) the series should probably be 2-2. I thought it would be extremely competitive. The Spurs are getting beat by the Mavs role players... the Mavs stars having even played that well yet. The Spurs role players haven't done anything in the series.

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True
Their role players are killing ours. Mason, Bonner, Finley, Thomas and Gooden are terrible. I'd not mind to see all the go in the off season

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

This thread is not designed to anger people who are already hurt about losing so please don't take it that way, but it is in response to all the irrational anger ("fire Pop!", "trade Timmy!", "trade Tony!", "trade the entire team!", "burn down the AT&T centre!!!") that is currently dominating this forum.

Are you really surprised by these results? I'm not in the slightest. We were a first round flame-out waiting to happen, as I and a number of other more rational fans pointed out a fortnight ago (and were unreasonably castigated for it). I'm not happy we're losing, I'm as disappointed as anyone, but I'm not surprised nor angry about it - in sport, as in life, there is always a loser, and sometimes it has to be us.

Exhibit 1: no Manu.
Exhibit 2: a less than 100% Tim.
Exhibit 3: no 2009 SPAM in evidence.
Exhibit 4: a team reliant on hot 3pt-shooting to win.
Exhibit 5: a coach confused by his own rotations (ie. desperately juggling his players to find any kind of consistently functional rotation).

I could go on with more evidence that was available to all weeks ago, but who needs to? Losing to the Mavs as we have been is absolutely no surprise whatsoever. Does it hurt? Sure. Is it a good reason to behave like a bunch of petulant 3 year olds? Not in your life.

Disappointed expectations are often the cause of emotional pain - release yourself from expectation, examine a situation rationally, and you can usually avoid this sort of nonsense. Then again, this is an internet forum, so I shouldn't be surprised by the garbage that gets flung around... ;)

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I checked you predicted the Spurs to win the series.. do as I say and not as a do......

True Kori, but then our role players have been all over the place for a month with all the crazy rotation shuffling, and Pop's blindness when it comes to some of his players.

As for not coming to play in game 3, do you mean effort? I think the effort was there, but that we couldn't buy a bucket (0/6 from 3 to start the game, 1/13 at the half), they effectively packed the paint, TP's pull-up wasn't falling, and Tim's knees were on a bad day. Sometimes the other team is just a lot better than you are on the day. that's what it looked like to me. Then again, you were there, so I defer to your wisdom. :)

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Originally Posted by bugmenot

I checked you predicted the Spurs to win the series.. do as I say and not as a do......

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No I didn't. Checked where? I said a number of times that I HOPED we'd win the series, but that we were likely a first round flameout. I also said that making the 2nd round would be an overachievement for this team. Want me to dig up the threads?

Don't accuse me of hipocrisy because I am very careful to do exactly what I say, and I'm certainly not one of the irrational idiots calling for the guillotine.

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

True Kori, but then our role players have been all over the place for a month with all the crazy rotation shuffling, and Pop's blindness when it comes to some of his players.

As for not coming to play in game 3, do you mean effort? I think the effort was there, but that we couldn't buy a bucket (0/6 from 3 to start the game, 1/13 at the half), they effectively packed the paint, TP's pull-up wasn't falling, and Tim's knees were on a bad day. Sometimes the other team is just a lot better than you are on the day. that's what it looked like to me. Then again, you were there, so I defer to your wisdom. :)

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The role players' performance right now (other than Hill not getting time) is not on Pop. Bonner and Finley are getting plenty of wide open looks off Tony's penetration. Mason is just horrible. I know people blame it on him being slid to PG, but he just hasn't done his job. He's atrocious on defense. Just absolutely horrible. As professional basketball players, you have to be ready to play no matter if you are playing 4 minutes or 34 minutes. Look at Bruce Bowen... he got his minutes f'd all season, but when he steps on the floor, he's good to go. The other guys are playing well, no matter how many minutes they are getting.

And nope, there was no real effort in Game 3.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Talent wise (with or without Manu) the series should probably be 2-2.

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really ? talent wise, without manu, i see the mavs, on paper, really better than us. TP said it many times too.

i hoped defense, poise, clutchness would help us. it doesn't.

The fact that most of the talented mavs players (dirk, terry, kidd) aren't even playing great, is making our 3-1 deficit even more hard to swallow.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

I'm surprised they didn't even come to play in Game 3.

Talent wise (with or without Manu) the series should probably be 2-2. I thought it would be extremely competitive. The Spurs are getting beat by the Mavs role players... the Mavs stars having even played that well yet. The Spurs role players haven't done anything in the series.

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Haven't played that well? That's the understatement of the century. The two guys that absolutely CARRIED us all year have been totally nonexistant. We have yet to see a single typical game from either Jet or Dirk.

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Originally Posted by bugmenot

I checked you predicted the Spurs to win the series.. do as I say and not as a do......

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For example, 3 weeks ago:

"Sell, which I hate to say.

Tim is badly hampered by his knees and it is particularly affecting his help D, which means the team D is shot, Pop has the rotation all wrong, the team is confused by all the tinkering and has lost its chemistry and self-belief, and the West is as deep and strong as ever.

I see a first round flameout against someone like NO or Utah, although of course I'm not giving up and will continue to barrack for the team until the season is over."

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthre...=121677&page=2

So, what are you talking about again? Oh, trying to misrepresent me. GTFOH.

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

Exhibit 1: no Manu.
- Pop should have let him rest the rest of the season

Exhibit 2: a less than 100% Tim.

Exhibit 3: no 2009 SPAM in evidence.
- Pop's fault

Exhibit 4: a team reliant on hot 3pt-shooting to win.
- Pop's fault

Exhibit 5: a coach confused by his own rotations (ie. desperately juggling his players to find any kind of consistently functional rotation).
- Pop's fault

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That's why I'm mad. Because some senile fucking moron sabotaged the season. Obviously, the Spurs weren't going to win the championship this year without Manu. However, equally clear is that the Spurs are a MUCH BETTER basketball team than the fucking garbage ass Mavericks. To lose to that team is embarrassing beyond words. Fuck Popovich.

And I'm not even going to mention the completely idiotic decisions by the front office the past few years. Also, Pop's fault.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

I'm surprised they didn't even come to play in Game 3.

Talent wise (with or without Manu) the series should probably be 2-2. I thought it would be extremely competitive. The Spurs are getting beat by the Mavs role players... the Mavs stars having even played that well yet. The Spurs role players haven't done anything in the series.

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I think that's by design. Dirk gets swarmed by triple teams every time he receives the ball. I think they're kind of overplaying Dirk a bit. The role players are stepping up because they are getting good looks with the attention geared towards Dirk. That and Josh Howard is really punishing you guys for the attention given to Dirk and Jet.

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Originally Posted by mavs>spurs

Haven't played that well? That's the understatement of the century. The two guys that absolutely CARRIED us all year have been totally nonexistant. We have yet to see a single typical game from either Jet or Dirk.

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Jet sucked today, but I don't know what you want from Dirk when he gets swarmed with triple teams. It's not working for the Spurs, because our supporting players continue to punish them for overplaying Dirk.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

The role players' performance right now (other than Hill not getting time) is not on Pop.

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It is Pop's fault if he chooses to play horrible role players, Bonner, Finley, and Mason, over good role players, Hill and Bowen.

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

No I didn't. Checked where? I said a number of times that I HOPED we'd win the series, but that we were likely a first round flameout. I also said that making the 2nd round would be an overachievement for this team. Want me to dig up the threads?

Don't accuse me of hipocrisy because I am very careful to do exactly what I say, and I'm certainly not one of the irrational idiots calling for the guillotine.

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Your predictions cheif ........

Code:

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EASTERN CONFERENCE

1. Cavaliers vs. 8. Pistons
Cavs in 4.

2. Celtics vs. 7. Bulls
Bulls in 7.

3. Magic vs. 6. Sixers
Magic in 5.

4. Hawks vs. 5. Heat
Hawks in 7.

WESTERN CONFERENCE

1. Lakers vs. 8. Jazz
Lakers in 5.

2. Nuggets vs. 7. Hornets
Nuggets in 7.

3. Spurs vs. 6. Mavericks
Spurs in 6.
(Final game: Spurs 93, Mavs 89)

4. Blazers vs. 5. Rockets
Blazers in 7.

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:owned

I'm surprised. We should be tied or be up. The Spurs aren't as bad as they are playing. If the role players give us anything today we'd be tied 2-2. We should be getting out in th esecond round, not the first.

Apart from Parker and this year to a substantially lesser extent Duncan, Spurs don't have another player that can create his own shot worth a damn. Maybe to some extent Gooden.

Take away any teams three best, in the Spurs case Duncan, Parker, Manu, and I doubt there's a team in the league with less ability to create than the Spurs.

I'm not surprised.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

I'm surprised they didn't even come to play in Game 3.

Talent wise (with or without Manu) the series should probably be 2-2. I thought it would be extremely competitive. The Spurs are getting beat by the Mavs role players... the Mavs stars having even played that well yet. The Spurs role players haven't done anything in the series.

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The Mavs' role players are greater than what the Spurs have occupying the bench.

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Originally Posted by Findog

Jet sucked today, but I don't know what you want from Dirk when he gets swarmed with triple teams. It's not working for the Spurs, because our supporting players continue to punish them for overplaying Dirk.

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The reason we need to triple team is because he's guarded by some Bonner dude, or some Finley dude, both of which can't defend worth shit.

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Originally Posted by Findog

I think that's by design. Dirk gets swarmed by triple teams every time he receives the ball. I think they're kind of overplaying Dirk a bit. The role players are stepping up because they are getting good looks with the attention geared towards Dirk. That and Josh Howard is really punishing you guys for the attention given to Dirk and Jet.

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I believe their plan was to let Josh Howard get his (mainly because Bowen can't guard everyone) but some players on the Spurs aren't playing D at all. It's not because they are helping out, doubling on Dirk/Terry -- they are just sucking and letting their man go or late on rotations. The Spurs poor defenders (Mason/Bonner/Fin) can be better than this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Findog

Jet sucked today, but I don't know what you want from Dirk when he gets swarmed with triple teams. It's not working for the Spurs, because our supporting players continue to punish them for overplaying Dirk.

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Yeah I'm mostly referring to Jet, but sometimes you have to be a superstar and lower that shoulder and make plays like he did on that 4th quarter drive. I don't see any reason why he couldn't have done that more. Not saying he's supposed to have a great numbers series while getting swarmed, but he definitely needs to be more agressive. Pull that 2nd and 3rd defender ALL THE WAY off their men, instead of just trying to sneak over for the steal or trap.

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Originally Posted by mavs>spurs

Yeah I'm mostly referring to Jet, but sometimes you have to be a superstar and lower that shoulder and make plays like he did on that 4th quarter drive. I don't see any reason why he couldn't have done that more. Not saying he's supposed to have a great numbers series while getting swarmed, but he definitely needs to be more agressive. Pull that 2nd and 3rd defender ALL THE WAY off their men, instead of just trying to sneak over for the steal or trap.

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A lot of times the right play is to give up the ball. At least where it comes to Dirk, the Spurs have done a good job of denying him his preference for setting up shop near the FT line.

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Originally Posted by bugmenot

Your predictions cheif ........

Code:

---

EASTERN CONFERENCE

1. Cavaliers vs. 8. Pistons
Cavs in 4.

2. Celtics vs. 7. Bulls
Bulls in 7.

3. Magic vs. 6. Sixers
Magic in 5.

4. Hawks vs. 5. Heat
Hawks in 7.

WESTERN CONFERENCE

1. Lakers vs. 8. Jazz
Lakers in 5.

2. Nuggets vs. 7. Hornets
Nuggets in 7.

3. Spurs vs. 6. Mavericks
Spurs in 6.
(Final game: Spurs 93, Mavs 89)

4. Blazers vs. 5. Rockets
Blazers in 7.

---

:owned

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...all of which entirely misses the point of this thread, which was in response to the irrational anger being thrown around.

Oh, okay, the predictions thread. WGAF about the predictions thread. I'm hardly going to go for the other team now, am I? I never tip against the Spurs because it feels wrong to me (if I tip the Mavs and they win, how am I meant to feel about that?) - support the team until the end, regardless of whether you feel that losing is inevitable.

The point is, long before that thread (as I have linked you to above, and I could find another 5 threads where I say the same thing), I realised that we were done and mentally prepared for the fact that we weren't likely to go anywhere this season. It is no great surprise to me, or a number of other posters, that this is not our year, and we were all criticised for spelling out why back in the last two weeks of the season.

Whose troll are you anyway?

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Look at Bruce Bowen... he got his minutes f'd all season, but when he steps on the floor, he's good to go.

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Bruce is always the consummate professional

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Originally Posted by Findog

A lot of times the right play is to give up the ball. At least where it comes to Dirk, the Spurs have done a good job of denying him his preference for setting up shop near the FT line.

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What I'm saying is he needs to be more aggressive and force a 2nd and 3rd defender to step up more often before he gives it up. That should set up some wide open shots or cuts.

It just seemed like the Spurs were slumping heading into the playoffs for the first time in a long time. Losing Ginobili was huge and a banged-up Duncan didn't help, but the subs weren't exactly playing at playoff level basketball lately. It's like a mid-season slump hit the Spurs at the end of the season. Conversely, the Mavs were playing their best ball at the end of the season.

We still have the Mav choke factor though. If any team can choke away a 3-1 lead, it would be the Mavs! So we have the best possible matchup now!

GO SPURS GO !!!

Let's see what they're made of!

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Originally Posted by RuffnReadyOzStyle

...all of which entirely misses the point of this thread, which was in response to the irrational anger being thrown around.

Oh, okay, the predictions thread. WGAF about the predictions thread. I'm hardly going to go for the other team now, am I? I never tip against the Spurs because it feels wrong to me (if I tip the Mavs and they win, how am I meant to feel about that?) - support the team until the end, regardless of whether you feel that losing is inevitable.

The point is, long before that thread (as I have linked you to above, and I could find another 5 threads where I say the same thing), I realised that we were done and mentally prepared for the fact that we weren't likely to go anywhere this season. It is no great surprise to me, or a number of other posters, that this is not our year, and we were all criticised for spelling out why back in the last two weeks of the season.

Whose troll are you anyway?

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I doubt it's a troll, just some jackass who wants to earn some ST cred by making you look bad. It will disappear back into ST nothingness if you stop giving it attention.

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Talent wise (with or without Manu) the series should probably be 2-2.

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Gotta disagree here. Without Manu, the Mavs are considerably more talented. It's even at the top, but the 4th-9th guys are much, much better on the Mavs.

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Originally Posted by mavs>spurs

What I'm saying is he needs to be more aggressive and force a 2nd and 3rd defender to step up more often before he gives it up. That should set up some wide open shots or cuts.

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Dirk still gets flustered by double teams. He can still make a quick move before the double, can still drive the ball more instead of being passive as shit and then throwing awkward passes out of the double/triple teams.

He played very well towards the end of the regular season, but both him and Terry should give all the credit to the other players because they have both yet to show the fuck up.

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Originally Posted by DubMcDub

Gotta disagree here. Without Manu, the Mavs are considerably more talented. It's even at the top, but the 4th-9th guys are much, much better on the Mavs.

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I know the Mavs team is more skilled. I also think (thought?) the Spurs team was more poised and experienced. My point was that I thought the series would be competitive (and tied at this point) whether Manu was on the floor or not.

I'm not surprised we're down 3-1, I have thought the Mavs bench was clearly better than ours, but what is depressing is how inefficient Tim has been. He is struggling out there. Our team is relies on Tim to gaurd the rim and since he hurt his knee that has a been a tough job for him and none of our other bigs has stepped up. Our inside game is almost nonexistent without Tim and our 2nd unit has had 3 out 4 bad games, and the scoring is a struggle when Tony isn't on the floor.

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Originally Posted by J.T.

I doubt it's a troll, just some jackass who wants to earn some ST cred by making you look bad. It will disappear back into ST nothingness if you stop giving it attention.

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Indeed. :tu

On tipping against your team - a mate of mine has an ingenious system for tipping against his team when he thinks they will lose. Like me, he lives and dies by his team (the Geelong Cats, Aussie Rules Football), but occasionally he thinks they'll lose, so what he does is tip his team but put money on the other team - that way if his guys win he feels good, but if they lose at least he gets a wad of cash for it! :lmao

Pop, the team, the fans, everyone is just tired. This season has worn everyone out. I feel like everyone is on injured reserve. Pop looks like he can't wait for the season to end and go drink his wine. No fire in the team and no fire in the coach. Maybe they do nor believe they can win the whole thing so why the hell keep trying. I give Duncan and Parker their due and Hill gets a rookie pass. Everyone else should be fined for impersonating an NBA player.

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Originally Posted by pjjrfan

I'm not surprised we're down 3-1, I have thought the Mavs bench was clearly better than ours, but what is depressing is how inefficient Tim has been. He is struggling out there. Our team is relies on Tim to gaurd the rim and since he hurt his knee that has a been a tough job for him and none of our other bigs has stepped up. Our inside game is almost nonexistent without Tim and our 2nd unit has had 3 out 4 bad games, and the scoring is a struggle when Tony isn't on the floor.

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Forget the media releases, he's still only at about 70%, you can see it in his play. His knees are a real worry for the future. He's just about to play his 900th game, so he's getting into the territory where physical decline will start to limit him, especially if tis condition persists into next season (and from what I've read, it's likely to as it is degenerative). Poor Tim. :depressed

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Originally Posted by Brickhouse

Dirk still gets flustered by double teams. He can still make a quick move before the double, can still drive the ball more instead of being passive as shit and then throwing awkward passes out of the double/triple teams.

He played very well towards the end of the regular season, but both him and Terry should give all the credit to the other players because they have both yet to show the fuck up.

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This is how the Spurs wanted it - they wanted the Mavs role players to step up and beat them because they were going to take away Dirk and Jet. Well, it's worked out for them to the tune of 1-3. Dirk does not always make great decisions with the double - but what I saw today was the Spurs overplaying him with triple teams. I thought he did a good job of giving the ball up when he was supposed to, and it led to ball movement and good shot attempts. That last drive on Bonner he was aggressive in going to the hoop, since that was one of the few times they didn't have a second help defender to crowd him.

No excuses.

Game 1 was a winnable game. We let JJ Barea and Bradon Bass do whatever they wanted. That's their 6th and 7th scorer on their team. At some point you have to take some pride and step up to the challenge. We didn't do it.

Game 3 was a complete NO SHOW. I mean, when was the last time you saw a complete and absolute no show? Even the Mavs tried to reel Game 2 when they were down 20. We didn't even try.

Today's game was completely winnable. Dampier was in foul trouble, Tony balled out of his mind, Timmy gave it all it could, Bowen was hounding everybody he was assigned to. But we made piss poor decisions all around. No intensity on defense. We knew how important was to rebound, and we got murdered on the boards. That's a hustle stat. Another game we handed away.

And that's how our season is ending... Bonner is the go to guy in the crunch. Our veterans, that are supposed to be the ones experienced, end up firing ill advised treys wit the game within reach. Some of our guys decided that playing defense was boring, so they won't do it. Piss poor effort and bad decisions all around.

Again, no excuses. This should have been a favorable series. They can't control Tony, and we've seen that to be the case, but we can't capitalize because we refuse to hustle and play defense. It starts with the coach and some of his silly decisions. And it goes from there to the rest of the roster.