Initial Reaction: Spurs @ Mavs - Game 4

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The Spurs entered Game 4 needing a win against the Mavericks to tie their first round series. Despite a heroic effort by Tony Parker, the Spurs came up short and Dallas was able to put San Antonio on the brink of elimination.

For the Spurs, the loss isn't too difficult to diagnose. Michael Finley, Matt Bonner, Drew Gooden, Kurt Thomas, Roger Mason, Jr. and Ime Udoka combined to go 2-for-21 from the field. On the boards, the Spurs got demolished 49-35, while giving up 14 offensive rebounds. Even though they held the Mavs to 38.4% shooting, the role players coming up empty, the lack of rebounding and sending Dallas to the line 39 times all combined to be more than enough to lose a playoff game.

The Mavs deserve a large amount of credit. They withstood sub par games from Dirk Nowitzki (4-for-9) and Jason Terry (3-for-17) by getting a great performance by Josh Howard and very good outings from Jason Kidd, Erick Dampier and Ryan Hollins. Dallas has earned their 3-1 advantage in the series. Their role players have massively outplayed the Spurs' role players and they've had a response for each San Antonio run in their three wins.

Overall, the Spurs don't have much of a choice. Game 5 is win or go home. If the Spurs can get Game 5, they can put the pressure on the Mavs to close it out at home. However, so far, the Mavs haven't seemed to mind pressure in this series.

-Tim Duncan's statistics look good -- 25 points, ten rebounds and seven assists. But I didn't think he played very well at all. Most notably, his defensive rebounding was very poor. He single-handedly gave up gave up numerous second looks for the Mavs by not being able to pull down the defensive board. His 25 points were better than the four he scored in Game 3 but he never managed to demand double-team coverage. The Mavs will gladly live with Duncan going for 25 against one defender. His assists number looks promising but he also mixed in a good amount of passes that were totally off the mark. Duncan wasn't horrible but I definitely think it was a sub par performance. I can't fault the effort, though.

-Tony Parker was outstanding. His 31-point first half was legendary and he gave a good push in the second half to give the Spurs a shot. The most amazing stat of the game is that Parker had a plus/minus of +7 and literally everyone else on the team had a negative plus/minus. The Mavs threw at least a half dozen different looks at Parker and he continually was able to cause havoc. With no player outside of Duncan doing much of anything, the Mavs were both sending tons of help at him and also cutting off his passing angles. It was basically a five-on-one defensive scheme and Parker found ways to do more than his part. There's not much he can do when the Spurs get outscored by 16 points in the 6 minutes and 48 seconds he rested.

-Michael Finley. God bless you, son, God bless you. Finley played poorly on both ends of the court yet he still ended up playing 36 minutes. On defense, Howard continuously made Finley look silly. It just got embarrassing after a while. On offense, Finley made a three-pointer early but then did almost nothing else the rest of the way. Down the stretch, he missed a number of shots that could have given San Antonio a chance. Finley compounded his struggled by doing nothing on the boards. All in all, it was a very bad effort from the one offensive role player on the team who doesn't have any excuse to struggle on this stage.

-Starting for the first time since November, I thought Bruce Bowen did good work. His D on J.J. Barea wasn't always great but he had a few fantastic sequences. Bowen's help defense was also very good, as was his rebounding. Offensively, Bowen was one of the few players on the team who obviously wasn't intimidated by the circumstances. If this is Bowen's last season as a Spur, he has nothing to be ashamed about concerning his effort in this series. He's gone from bit player to integral cog in record time.

-Most Spurs fans knew there was a definite chance that Matt Bonner would choke during these playoffs. And that chance has become a reality. Bonner was scared to shoot a few times and his hesitation was very costly. When he did shoot, Bonner shot blanks. He went 1-for-9 in Dallas and 0-for-7 on three-pointers. To make matters worse, Bonner pulled down one rebound this game. One. Defensively, Bonner actually played relatively well in terms of his position defense and his rotating, but that doesn't matter at all if the rest of his game is garbage.

-Ime Udoka was active in his 19 minutes. He seemed to always been in the middle of the action. Unfortunately, most of his work was negative in nature. He missed all of his shots and his offensive ineptness got so blatant that the Mavs literally stopped defending him. Udoka also made a number of questionable offensive decisions. On defense, he was good during some possessions but he had untimely fouls that negated most of his positives.

-Roger Mason, Jr. came off the bench due to Bowen's promotion and he was very bad. His time at point guard was a tragedy. He played the position as poorly as you'll see it played during the NBA playoffs. Even when he switched over to shooting guard, Mason's confidence and rhythm looked like it was totally destroyed. Going scoreless, playing poor defense and posting a team-worst plus/minus of -13 now forces Spurs fans to wonder if Mason is a long-term fit on this team or whether he's too flawed to be a part of the solution.

-George Hill joined Duncan, Parker and Bowen as players who actually helped out. The rookie guard played the final 14 and a half minutes of the game and played better than could have been fairly expected. He hit both of his three-pointers -- the second one was with 2:31 to go in the game cut the deficit to three points. Defensively, Hill was tremendous. He defended Terry and held him to 0-for-5 shooting during his time on the court. That's especially impressive because Terry is the Mavs' go-to player in fourth quarters. I only had one question after watching Hill play and succeed in the biggest game of the season: what the hell has Pop been thinking? There's absolutely no excuse for taking Hill out of the rotation for the last three months.

-Kurt Thomas continues his disappointing playoff showing. He's just not doing anything well enough to warrant more playing time. He was a beast at times this season but he's fallen on his face in the postseason. While the Mavs are a bad matchup for Thomas' skillset, that's not a good enough excuse for his flaccid postseason play.

-Drew Gooden authored his second consecutive disappointing outing. I can't fault his effort but the results weren't very good at all. His lack of basketball IQ is painfully obvious at this point, which isn't helped by his newness to the system. Gooden's four fouls in eight minutes helped allow the Mavs to live at the charity stripe. Hopefully Gooden will play better in front of the home fans in Game 5.

-In this game, Pop coached a decent enough game. Putting Bowen into the starting lineup was the right move. Letting Hill play down the stretch was the right move. He might have leaned on small ball too much but with all the bigs outside of Duncan struggling, he wasn't left with much of an option. He played Finley too much, but that's a broken record that won't be fixed until Finley retires. Pop's biggest mistakes (trying to force Bowen into retirement, giving up on Hill, relying too much on Finley, investing too much in Bonner) have roots that were planted long before this game.

A 3-1 hole is not a fun place to reside. Thankfully the Spurs are the type of veteran outfit that can actually climb out of this hole. There's gotta be more fight in this team.

Believe.

Excellent IR. The Spurs were clearly the second best team going into this series, yet every costly disadvantage has been of their own making.

All good points.

what costed us the game:

- REBOUNDING: + 14 for the mavs.
- role players offensive outing: 2-21
- Tim not benefiting of Dampier 5 fouls and a rookie defending him: he should have either destroyed his man on one on one or asked an automatic double team.


what was average:

-defense was not the problem since the mavs shot 38 %. but they mised a lot of open look/easy layup. so, we couldn't even say our defense was good.
- FT shooting: we should be a least a 75-80 % team in closed game: that's 4-5 points lost here, mainly with Tim being cold all the game at the line and tony missing two huge ones in the 4th.


what was good:
-Tony
-Tim wasn't the dominant Tim we would need to win this serie. and i'm afraid he won't be. but he was decent and gave us a 25-10 games at more than 50 %. not enough but still reassuring after his awful G3.
- Bruce and Hill.


Conclusion: Role players suck, Tim isn't dominant, we're outrebounded badly (see Tim not being dominant and having no help at all), defense is only decent: Tony isn't enough.

I love Pop.... but god dammit!

He unnecesarilly screwed this team up. And after seeing what happened with Hill in the last few months I cant help to wonder about Beno Udrih once again.

So Pop has basically killed Mason's game by forcing him to play a position that he's bad at. When Mason fails at this (as any reasonable person would expect him to), Pop benches him for his poor play and leaves him off the court when we'd actually need him (say, for clutch 3 pointers at the end of tight ballgames). Instead, we're forced to watch Matt Bonner, a guy who has made maybe 1 pressure shot in his entire pro career, jack up a bunch of badly missed 3's in said tight ballgame.

Good stuff.

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Originally Posted by Kamnik

I love Pop.... but god dammit!

He unnecesarilly screwed this team up. And after seeing what happened with Hill in the last few months I cant help to wonder about Beno Udrih once again.

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you wonder about Beno ? See what he's doing now. Beno sucked and is still sucking without Pop.

Hill is a rookie and Pop doesn't fucking trust rookies. unfortunately.

Duncan would have got a tripple double last night if those role players had reserved any energy in sucking. Even so, the spurs still held the gap below 10 points, particularly Tony Longoria did a wonderful job last night. Although the spurs lost the game last night, Tony Longoria still deserved a big round of applause.

Thanks to timvp for the awesome initial reaction, or game thoughts.

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Originally Posted by Kamnik

I love Pop.... but god dammit!

He unnecesarilly screwed this team up. And after seeing what happened with Hill in the last few months I cant help to wonder about Beno Udrih once again.

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But look how Hill responded when he finally got minutes. He's a stronger player mentally.

Fortunately for me, I'm on a desert island since 6 days, I've only found an internet access today.

I'll be back tomorrow

Well, hard to disagree with any of your thoughts on this one timvp.

What stroke me the most was Georgie performance. A LOT of people here could have foretold what he could bring the team, yet it took pop three and a half game to acknowledge it.
Some veteran on this team should be ashamed to be outperformed THAT badly by a rookie. In the three next games the role players better play like their paychecks are on the line.

:flag:

ugh bonner ....

Great recap! As usual thanks for your efforts Timvp.

As I watched the game two things were painfully obvious to me: 1) that our role players were losing the game for us and it got to a point where Tony and Timmy were the only viable options to score. It's just unbelievalbe that our core role players would go 2 for 21 in a playoff game. And 2) our lack of rebounding will be the death of this team. Once again we got pounded on the boards which leads to too many second chance opportunities. That was my fear coming into this series - lack of boards and the Mavs getting those second chance opportunities.

Being down 3-1 isn't an impossible task to overcome but if the Spurs don't fix the above 2 items then it wont happen. My heart still believes but my mind is wondering if they can refocus and pull this one out. They have a tall order in front of them.

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Originally Posted by stéphane

Some veteran on this team should be ashamed to be outperformed THAT badly by a rookie. In the three next games the role players better play like their paychecks are on the line.

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well, at one point, even Tim was outperformed by Hollins. A superstar slowed down by an insolent rookie.

that's kinda the story of this serie right now: the mavs have some no-name or second class players who came out with some fire. we didn't.

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Originally Posted by timvp

A 3-1 hole is not a fun place to reside. Thankfully the Spurs are the type of veteran outfit that can actually climb out of this hole. There's gotta be more fight in this team.

Believe.

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There's got to be....

Not to take anything away from Parker's magnificent effort, but we've all seen games where a superstar has a great scoring game--but the team loses because the other players stand around.

In this case, it was so apparent that the rest of the players simply weren't iinto the game. How many times were Bonner, Findley, Mason, Udoka, guilty of having an open shot and passing it up. They were tenative at best, gutless at worst. And passing up the open 3s didn't help cause they were 2 of 21 over all.

Not ready for prime time players.

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Originally Posted by TheProfessor

But look how Hill responded when he finally got minutes. He's a stronger player mentally.

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Dont get me wrong... I am almost a Beno hater! He dissapointed me in the NBA and in NT.

But still, what is happening to Hill makes me rethink some of my hating for Beno when he was on the Spurs (last 2 years)

With Manu out and TD at 50%, the Spurs chances were not too good to begin with, but with the addition of Pop's bungles this year, the team is on the brink. This team is at mid-season form at best, much less playoff ready.

I agree I seriously doubt we can do anymore this year, though a win in game 5 would be nice. The Mavs have gotten better over the season, even the little dwarf is playing pretty good. The loss of Manu hurt but we have to face it that some of our guys just need to go now. Here's my list:

Keep:
Duncan
Parker
Manu (if he can heal up over the summer)
Mason (not doing much now but I think he's worth keeping)
Hill
Gooden and Udoka (both maybes in my book)

Everyone else goes. If Ian Mahimi cant show up over the summer, shitcan him. Retire Bowen's number next year and keep him on as an assistant if he's interested. Many thanks to Oberto, Finley and Vaughan for a good effort over the years (but adios). KT just got old too quick.

:pop::vomit:

Ever since Hill was drafted by the Spurs, and all the articles came out about his mental toughness, desire and heart you knew the guy was special. His college coach confirmed Hill's toughness. The way he conducted himself when he played several games with Tony out was pretty admirable.

We kept winning most games with Hill despite the Spurs' injuries. Pop screwed up when he saw Mason hit some winning shots and thought, Mason could do anything, including run the point. Big fucking mistake. Hill became a benchwarmer and Pop wasted the rest of the season trying to force Mason into a PG that he will never be at the expense of Hill. Pop put too much faith in Mason and not enough in Hill.:ihit

Hill is much more mentally tough than many players on the team. The guy deserves some more serious minutes from Pop. The bench players and our 2 starters sucked so bad last night they made me want to:pimpslap
their sorry asses. Hell, they should be docked pay for their abysmal performance.

Good recap, timvp. As everyone pointed out, the role players are losing this series. I don't agree with the theory that Pop ruined Mason. Mason is an NBA player and should play well no matter what position he is called to run. Pop experimented and it failed, but Mason should be able to cope better. Hill is a good example of a person ready to contribute no matter what position. Its a shame that the team probably won't see the second round so that Hill could get more experience. He is going to be very handy next year.
Starting Bowen was great to see, but a bit too late in the series. He did his usual great job on defense and continues to perform when necessary on offense. Hopefully, Pop will finish the series starting Bowen.
Ime was average. Pretty good energy, did a good job of bothering Dirk, but stunk it up on offense. I really hoped that Mason and Udoka would be assassins in this series, but their sphincters tighten up everytime they take a shot.
The rest of the team was crap in Dallas.
Hope for the future? For the next games, lets hope we see more Bowen in the starting lineup. Let Bonner use his energy coming off the bench and start Kurt or Gooden next to Tim, if only for the rebounding. Use Hill as backup or continue to use him in the 4th quarter on Terry. Then...what can you do? The bench is looking awfully weak now.
Lets hope the home cooking will allow one more game to put some kind of pressure on Dallas.
Go Spurs.

Matt Bonner for the GOOSE EGG!!!

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Originally Posted by Indazone

Matt Bonner for the GOOSE EGG!!!

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Wow, how insightful. Thank you for taking the time to dig deep and bring us all that absolute gem of a basketball take.

Game 5: Win or STAY HOME.

It's two different game plans at work and Dallas is winning hands down.

The Spurs are happy with taking Dirk and Terry out of the equation and letting everyone else beat them. Those guys are getting open looks consistently and have brought more hunger and energy. They believe and when they smell blood they go for the kill. It's given them confidence to be left open time after time and they're feeding off of it. Props to them for stepping up.

The Mavs are probably laughing in the locker room when they see Duncan and Parker do all the scoring. Oh they talk about wanting to stop Parker but they could care less if he scores 60 if it means no one else is doing any damage and they still lose. They have to be thrilled watching our two weapons do all the damage while all the role players get an open look or two or just stand around and watch the Parker-Duncan show. It's a shame they're not doing more defensively, or getting on the boards, and bringing some energy of their own, even though they're not involved offensively.

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Originally Posted by loveforthegame

It's two different game plans at work and Dallas is winning hands down.

The Spurs are happy with taking Dirk and Terry out of the equation and letting everyone else beat them. Those guys are getting open looks consistently and have brought more hunger and energy. They believe and when they smell blood they go for the kill. It's given them confidence to be left open time after time and they're feeding off of it. Props to them for stepping up.

The Mavs are probably laughing in the locker room when they see Duncan and Parker do all the scoring. Oh they talk about wanting to stop Parker but they could care less if he scores 60 if it means no one else is doing any damage and they still lose. They have to be thrilled watching our two weapons do all the damage while all the role players get an open look or two or just stand around and watch the Parker-Duncan show. It's a shame they're not doing more defensively, or getting on the boards, and bringing some energy of their own, even though they're not involved offensively.

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Yup...this is why the Spurs are struggling in this series...that, and Pop is on crack. :lol

It is disgusting how important rebounding is in this series. The Spurs, if they have any hope of winning any games, must win the battle of the boards.

It is not that Dallas's defensive game plan is genius. The Spurs are getting plenty of good offensive situations (TP penetration, TD isolations, open looks for role players), but they are not stepping up outside of TP.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

It is not that Dallas's defensive game plan is genius. The Spurs are getting plenty of good offensive situations (TP penetration, TD isolations, open looks for role players), but they are not stepping up outside of TP.

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Yeah, I agree with this. Some are insinuating that the Mavs have tried to take out the role players. I haven't see any evidence of that.

The same shots are available that were available in Game 1. The problem is that if Parker or Duncan don't carry the offensive load, the team just stops scoring. For example, to start the third quarter Parker and Duncan went to the role players for some help. But after they either missed or refused to shoot, Parker and Duncan realized it was either take over the game or get blown out.

Some random thoughts:

There's been a lot of talk about how much Bonner has choked. I'm not disagreeing with that. In one of the threads before the series began I thought he would be fairly useless. However, he does play much better at home. If we bench everyone that choked last game we wouldn't be able to start 5 people. I wouldn't count on Bonner in crunch time but he needs to be given a shot early to see if he's able to contribute. Put another way - with this anemic roster, what other choice do we have?

Regarding Hill, I think he will get more minutes next game but it could easily be as a "small forward" or some other odd way to use him. There's no reason at all to think Pop is able to adapt this quickly, and actually use Hill as the backup PG, unless he privately feels the season is over.

Off-season rambling:

Regarding Pop, I think fans are probably too quick to throw him out the door. Obviously new talent needs to be fit into the roster as soon as possible next year. And the way this series is heading (first round exit), maybe, maybe, Pop will realize Finley is not the answer; Ime is not the next Bowen; and Bonner is not the next Horry.

What I hope for is not to blow up the team and the coaching staff, but for the FO to radically alter their approach. A long shot I admit, but there will be new players next year whether Pop cares for it or not. He's going to have to adapt even if he'd rather not. The goal should be to transition new players into the team and try to teach them whatever remains of the system. Blowing things up, getting a new coach would be more devastating then having at least some veterans around to help new players transition into the league when at least there's still some semblance of a winning tradition.

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Originally Posted by kace

you wonder about Beno ? See what he's doing now.

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Making $5.5 M playing in the NBA?

TP, he really was outstanding and should have a play on the mvp list, or be mvp this year. anyway, bad and a shame they did not manage to hold the mavs down. This game would make things lot easier for us, now it will be hard to win the series. but im still confident. GO SPURS!

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Originally Posted by The Truth #6

Some random thoughts:

There's been a lot of talk about how much Bonner has choked. I'm not disagreeing with that. In one of the threads before the series began I thought he would be fairly useless. However, he does play much better at home. If we bench everyone that choked last game we wouldn't be able to start 5 people. I wouldn't count on Bonner in crunch time but he needs to be given a shot early to see if he's able to contribute. Put another way - with this anemic roster, what other choice do we have?

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"Much better" for Bonner at home is generous. What did he do in game 1? What shots or plays did he make in game 2 before Tony Parker near-singlehandedly got the Spurs a double digit lead?

For the last 10 years the Spurs have won so many big games and 4 titles because they have had the combination of 3 great stars and solid bench contribution.

What we saw saturday was that they still get great play from their stars but there is no contribution from the bench any more.

When Parker and Duncan score almost 70 and Dirk and Jet score less than 30 and the Mavs win by 9 is a eye opener. The Mavs are getting the timely scoring from their secondary players like JJ, Bass, Wright, Damp and Kidd. Not exactly hall of famers there.

Back in the day the spurs used guys like Kerr or Big Shot Bob or Bowen and recently Finely but those guys are gone or too old. And the new guys like Mason, Bonner, Hill or Gooden just aren't delivering.

If Ginob can come back next year at 90% or better then the Spurs will be a contender. But the time is running out fast on this team.

The Window has been open a loooong time for the Spurs but it is about to shut unless some real changes are made next year. But it has been a HELL of a run!

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Originally Posted by 41times

for the last 10 years the spurs have won so many big games and 4 titles because they have had the combination of 3 great stars and solid bench contribution.

What we saw saturday was that they still get great play from their stars but there is no contribution from the bench any more.

When parker and duncan score almost 70 and dirk and jet score less than 30 and the mavs win by 9 is a eye opener. The mavs are getting the timely scoring from their secondary players like jj, bass, wright, damp and kidd. Not exactly hall of famers there.

Back in the day the spurs used guys like kerr or big shot bob or bowen and recently finely but those guys are gone or too old. And the new guys like mason, bonner, hill or gooden just aren't delivering.

If ginob can come back next year at 90% or better then the spurs will be a contender. But the time is running out fast on this team.

The window has been open a loooong time for the spurs but it is about to shut unless some real changes are made next year. But it has been a hell of a run!

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QFT :toast

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Originally Posted by 41times

For the last 10 years the Spurs have won so many big games and 4 titles because they have had the combination of 3 great stars and solid bench contribution.

What we saw saturday was that they still get great play from their stars but there is no contribution from the bench any more.

When Parker and Duncan score almost 70 and Dirk and Jet score less than 30 and the Mavs win by 9 is a eye opener. The Mavs are getting the timely scoring from their secondary players like JJ, Bass, Wright, Damp and Kidd. Not exactly hall of famers there.

Back in the day the spurs used guys like Kerr or Big Shot Bob or Bowen and recently Finely but those guys are gone or too old. And the new guys like Mason, Bonner, Hill or Gooden just aren't delivering.

If Ginob can come back next year at 90% or better then the Spurs will be a contender. But the time is running out fast on this team.

The Window has been open a loooong time for the Spurs but it is about to shut unless some real changes are made next year. But it has been a HELL of a run!

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good post. and so true.

I think its easy to say now, that Kurt Thomas really did just run out of juice during his killer stetch earlier in the year.

He helped keep us afloat, but he doesn't have anything left.

believe

Pop pulled the right string by finally starting Bowen...but at the wrong players expense in Roger Mason Jr. The starters should be TP, Mason, Bowen, TD, and Gooden OR Thomas. No more Bonner.

Formula for Game 5 win:

1. More and more Hill. He proved is ready for this stage in Game 4.

2. More Gooden and/or Thomas, LESS Bonner.

3. TD & TP step up once again, which I have no doubt that they will.

4. No more Mason at PG, he is strictly a shooter.

5. Crunch-time lineup of TP, Hill, Bowen, TD, and any other big BESIDES Bonner.

I know Gooden didn't have a great game, but he only played 8 minutes. And in that eight minutes he got 3 boards, which is three times more than Bonner got in nearly 3 times as much time on the court. In fact, Gooden rebounded at a better rate than Duncan or Bowen. If I were Pop I would have played Gooden a hell of a lot more, but after a couple of fouls i would have warned him that we need him in the game so to try not to foul out.

I've said it since the day we got Gooden. If he doesn't start and Bonner does, Pop is being pig-headed. Further, I've said for weeks that Bowen has got to get lots of minutes as he is the best perimeter defender. I've also said that Hill should be used more, as his defense is pretty remarkable for a rookie.

Pop has not followed any of my advice, so we find ourselves down 3-1. No fucking surprise to me AT FUCKING ALL.

Fire Pop! He's a douchebag now.

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Originally Posted by LEONARD

believe Pop is moron.

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It's all about how to play on the road without fear. It sad to say but nobody outside Timmy, Manu and Tony can elevate their game on the road. Which makes it impossible to win in the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by objective

"Much better" for Bonner at home is generous. What did he do in game 1? What shots or plays did he make in game 2 before Tony Parker near-singlehandedly got the Spurs a double digit lead?

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Relax. I said he's fairly useless. Playing better at home doesn't imply he's actually a good player.

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Originally Posted by DBMethos

So Pop has basically killed Mason's game by forcing him to play a position that he's bad at. When Mason fails at this (as any reasonable person would expect him to), Pop benches him for his poor play and leaves him off the court when we'd actually need him (say, for clutch 3 pointers at the end of tight ballgames). Instead, we're forced to watch Matt Bonner, a guy who has made maybe 1 pressure shot in his entire pro career, jack up a bunch of badly missed 3's in said tight ballgame.

Good stuff.

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Wonderful job. Did you know that without this site, no real reporters in SA would ever get their paychecks. hahahahahaha

"THIS IS A MESSAGE TO POPOVICH"

You are starting to find out what is it to coach a team, its all fun & games when everyone is healthy and playin well, but when peices are missing and you actually have to coach thats when your true skills come out. Let me be one to point this out to you POP! YOU SUCK at coaching and your perfomance is proof enough............

If Game 4 can't convince some Spurs fans that this team is hopeless, nothing will.

If I'm Tony Parker or Tim Duncan, deep down, though I might say otherwise, I know I can't count on my teammates. Maybe I'll keep passing the ball and playing the scheme because I'm supposed to, but I know those other guys aren't going to hit the shots, grab the rebounds, make the stops, or do much of anything, except fail miserably.

Gregg Popovich is a great coach for veteran players and knows how to develop a yoingster if he has to. But he is stubborn. This mindset that the Spurs have to play the veterans and cross their fingers that it all works out has left the team at a dead end. This team isn't going anywhere. The only upside would be if Roger Mason and George Hill could log some playoff minutes and build experience and confidence. Instead, Pop is doing his best systematically to destroy their confidence.

Michael Finley is done as a professional basketball player. He cannot do anything on a basketball court anymore. If the Spurs were to start a steaming turd at small forward, at least there would be a chance an opposing player might slip on it.

Roger Mason is a shooting guard. Asking him to play point guard is like asking Kurt Thomas to play small forward. It is setting him up for failure. There is no evidence that Mason has any competence handling the ball like that. The only reason I can think of that Pop placed him in that role over Hill is that after seeing Tony Parker and Beno Udrih struggle as young players in the playoffs he simply has no confidence that a young player can do it. The obvious rebuttal is that George Hill certainly could not do any worse than Mason. Benny Hill couldn't do any worse.

Bruce Bowen, despite his obvious decline, differs from several other Spurs in that he apparently is still capable of making a few things happen on a basketball court.

Matt Bonner is meant to be the 11th or 12th player on an NBA roster. That he ends up logging significant minutes on the Spurs only underscores the front office's failure to field a competitive supporting cast. He is not athletic. He cannot rebound. When he is not hitting three-pointers --shots that he can't create for himself but rather depends upon stars to create for him--, he is useless. That somebody in the front office thought he could replace Robert Horry is laughable.

Kurt Thomas is washed up. He is done.

Fabricio Oberto is washed up. He is done.

Jacque Vaughn is washed up. He is done.

Ime Udoka is at best a third-string player on a deep lottery team. That the Spurs' front office imagined him to be a Bruce Bowen replacement is a mockery.

Drew Gooden has some obvious talent and can create shots for himself, unlike every other Spur who isn't one of the Big 1 and Medium 2. However, he obviously isn't very smart and doesn't have a feel for the game on either end of the court, which is why he is bouncing all over the league.

I don't see what the Spurs have to play for in Game 5 other than pride in not being eliminated at home. Making it to the second round is no accomplishment for this franchise. There is nothing from these playoffs that this team can build on, since this iteration of the team is at an end. Beating the Mavs is no great accomplishment. The only upside I see, again, is for Hill and Mason to get experience in roles they can actually fulfill, but if Pop does that, he probably signals to the team that he has put up the white flag (if they don't have that message already).

The Spurs will end this season in total disarray. They face the prospect of two of their top three players being in decline. They have no credible NBA players at any of the three frontcourt positions other than Tim Duncan, and few prospects to procure any. The two decent prospects they have behind their star guards have had their confidence wrecked. The team looks for all the world like it is coming apart.

Since Tim Duncan probably can be Tim Duncan for the first half of a season before his knees break down again, and Tony Parker is at his peak, the Spurs probably can avoid a total breakdown like what the Pistons just went through. They can put up their 50 fools-gold wins next season if they so desire, and make some fans believe there is still a chance. But what we are seeing in this series is what this team really is when the chips are down.

Diddo!!!! To what whats mentioned above, except for the part about "POP" being a good coach..... All the mistakes you mentioned above are why he is not a good coach.........Unwilling to make changes, poor in game descions, amongust the hundrends of other mistakes he made over the 2nd half of season........... Coachs have been fired for less in this league......

Next yr, SPURS hopefully can learn from this year and hit the talent pool hard, finally spend some green and take a chance.........

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Originally Posted by DaBears

Diddo!!!! To what whats mentioned above, except for the part about "POP" being a good coach..... All the mistakes you mentioned above are why he is not a good coach.........Unwilling to make changes, poor in game descions, amongust the hundrends of other mistakes he made over the 2nd half of season........... Coachs have been fired for less in this league......

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Be sure to keep a plenty of Kleenex on hand for Pop's inevitable induction into the Basketball Hall of Fame.

1 good quality big man and a good young athletic small forward that can create thier own shot, would be nice.....

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Originally Posted by Indazone

Matt Bonner for the GOOSE EGG!!!

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I wish Duncan shot FTs like Yao, he was 19/19 or better until he finally missed last night.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Extra Stout

If Game 4 can't convince some Spurs fans that this team is hopeless, nothing will. {I'm now convinced}

If I'm Tony Parker or Tim Duncan, deep down, though I might say otherwise, I know I can't count on my teammates. Maybe I'll keep passing the ball and playing the scheme because I'm supposed to, but I know those other guys aren't going to hit the shots, grab the rebounds, make the stops, or do much of anything, except fail miserably.

Gregg Popovich is a great coach for veteran players and knows how to develop a youngster if he has to. But he is stubborn. This mindset that the Spurs have to play the veterans and cross their fingers that it all works out has left the team at a dead end. This team isn't going anywhere. The only upside would be if Roger Mason and George Hill could log some playoff minutes and build experience and confidence. Instead, Pop is doing his best systematically to destroy their confidence.

Michael Finley is done as a professional basketball player. He cannot do anything on a basketball court anymore. If the Spurs were to start a steaming turd at small forward, at least there would be a chance an opposing player might slip on it.

Roger Mason is a shooting guard. Asking him to play point guard is like asking Kurt Thomas to play small forward. It is setting him up for failure. There is no evidence that Mason has any competence handling the ball like that. The only reason I can think of that Pop placed him in that role over Hill is that after seeing Tony Parker and Beno Udrih struggle as young players in the playoffs he simply has no confidence that a young player can do it. The obvious rebuttal is that George Hill certainly could not do any worse than Mason. Benny Hill couldn't do any worse.

Bruce Bowen, despite his obvious decline, differs from several other Spurs in that he apparently is still capable of making a few things happen on a basketball court.

Matt Bonner is meant to be the 11th or 12th player on an NBA roster. {Spurs will never, ever go anywhere if Matt Bonner is a starter or plays 25 minutes on the court at PF or C, period} That he ends up logging significant minutes on the Spurs only underscores the front office's failure to field a competitive supporting cast. He is not athletic. He cannot rebound. When he is not hitting three-pointers --shots that he can't create for himself but rather depends upon stars to create for him--, he is useless. That somebody in the front office thought he could replace Robert Horry is laughable.

Kurt Thomas is washed up. He is done.

Fabricio Oberto is washed up. He is done.

Jacque Vaughn is washed up. He is done.

Ime Udoka is at best a third-string player on a deep lottery team. That the Spurs' front office imagined him to be a Bruce Bowen replacement is a mockery.

Drew Gooden has some obvious talent and can create shots for himself, unlike every other Spur who isn't one of the Big 1 and Medium 2. However, he obviously isn't very smart and doesn't have a feel for the game on either end of the court, which is why he is bouncing all over the league.


I don't see what the Spurs have to play for in Game 5 other than pride in not being eliminated at home. Making it to the second round is no accomplishment for this franchise. There is nothing from these playoffs that this team can build on, since this iteration of the team is at an end. Beating the Mavs is no great accomplishment. The only upside I see, again, is for Hill and Mason to get experience in roles they can actually fulfill, but if Pop does that, he probably signals to the team that he has put up the white flag (if they don't have that message already).

The Spurs will end this season in total disarray. They face the prospect of two of their top three players being in decline. They have no credible NBA players at any of the three frontcourt positions other than Tim Duncan, and few prospects to procure any. The two decent prospects they have behind their star guards have had their confidence wrecked. The team looks for all the world like it is coming apart.

Since Tim Duncan probably can be Tim Duncan for the first half of a season before his knees break down again, and Tony Parker is at his peak, the Spurs probably can avoid a total breakdown like what the Pistons just went through. They can put up their 50 fools-gold wins next season if they so desire, and make some fans believe there is still a chance. But what we are seeing in this series is what this team really is when the chips are down.

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Spurs can't beat the Mavericks in this series. And I doubt that next season will be much of an improvement. It's all downhill from here.


:ihit:bang

Dang, ES going all GW on us. I disagree about KT being done, but otherwise, I'd have to agree.

Thank you timvp.

Excellent analysis.

:toast

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Originally Posted by 41times

For the last 10 years the Spurs have won so many big games and 4 titles because they have had the combination of 3 great stars and solid bench contribution.

What we saw saturday was that they still get great play from their stars but there is no contribution from the bench any more.

When Parker and Duncan score almost 70 and Dirk and Jet score less than 30 and the Mavs win by 9 is a eye opener. The Mavs are getting the timely scoring from their secondary players like JJ, Bass, Wright, Damp and Kidd. Not exactly hall of famers there.

Back in the day the spurs used guys like Kerr or Big Shot Bob or Bowen and recently Finely but those guys are gone or too old. And the new guys like Mason, Bonner, Hill or Gooden just aren't delivering.

If Ginob can come back next year at 90% or better then the Spurs will be a contender. But the time is running out fast on this team.

The Window has been open a loooong time for the Spurs but it is about to shut unless some real changes are made next year. But it has been a HELL of a run!

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Excellent post.

Painful reality setting in for us.

I don't see any way at all that we come back from 3 to 1 with no Manu and TD at 50% and no supporting cast. And that's what we have. We're done.

Derek Fisher getting away with a bull shit Laker-Only Exception foul on Brent Barry during the Laker Series last season was the very first of a long line of unfortunate instances, which are culminating in the end of our run In all of the existing possible alternate universes, the one we are in is seriously the worst of the worst in terms of this team.
I don't want to lose at home though. Go spurs, kick some ass in game 5.

Great recap, as always.

Very apt description of KT's play. Discovered a new use of the term "flaccid".

As for Mason, I don't think he's a problem for the long term. I simply think that Pop playing him out of position at backup point, disrupts his rhythm as a shooting guard. Of course, there is no denying he's a terrible defender.

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Originally Posted by ploto

Making $5.5 M playing in the NBA?

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Thank goodness he's stealing that money from the worst team in the NBA and not from the Spurs. Awesome the way he stepped up his game once he secured the big money. I'm sure Sacramento would gladly give him away if there was another team in the NBA willing to take his contract.

Thanks Timpv, excelent recap as usual.
100 % agree about Hill, he didnt hesitate to shoot at all,
which cannot be said the same about Bonner....:(

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Originally Posted by stéphane

In the three next games the role players better play like their paychecks are on the line.

:flag:

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I would hope so, because they just might be.