at the beggining of Matt Bonners life in spurdom, tellng how fortunate we were to recieve matt bonner because we would have a malik rose type player with a 3.
lololololololololololololololololooloollololololol oolololololool
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at the beggining of Matt Bonners life in spurdom, tellng how fortunate we were to recieve matt bonner because we would have a malik rose type player with a 3.
lololololololololololololololololooloollololololol oolololololool
somebody find me that thread!
matt bonner guarded Dirk very well this series, and deserves credit for that if his stat line read 0's all the way down. you're just a fucking hater like all the rest.
:lmao at all of you bonner hating bitches. He deserves so much better after what he's done to try and contain/limit Dirk this series. I will continue to laugh when he starts Game 1 of 82 next season :toast
he needs more minutes!
lolololololololololollololololololol!!!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by z0sa
:lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by Ignignokt
He's pretty much been that all year -- A hustle player who is one of the best 3 point shooters is the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignignokt
He just hasn't done well in the postseason.
^Timvp actually called that I believe. He was the first to state that Matt Bonner didn't seem like a clutch postseason player to him.
Still, nothing like a Malik Rose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
Malik Rose = scrappy, hustle playerQuote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
Matt Bonner = scrappy, hustle player
That was all that was said.
Did this sentece make sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
If you ask me to name a player similar to Bonner, Rose's name wouldn't cross my mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
Offensively. Defensively, he's had the best stretch of his career IMO these last 3 games. After a tough game in foul trouble and looking like he couldn't contribute even defensively in Game 1, he's come back extreme strong both physically and mentally against Dirk. The fact he doesn't rebound has much to do with him guarding Dirk on one end and being Bonner on the other, rather than just being Bonner on one end and guarding a conventional big man on defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
you were a fan when rose played with spurs?Quote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
He didn't say he had Malik Rose's skillset. He said that he Malik Rose-type hustle.... a guy who isn't that great of a basketball player but works hard and is scrappy.Quote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
Yes. I've been a Spurs fan since 1998/99.Quote:
Originally Posted by ducks
if bonner had stepped it up like malik did in that phoenix series, right now teasing the mav trolls would have been easier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
don't confuse these people with facts - their entire goal is smack, and not much else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignignokt
Yeah timvp has been saying for months that he didn't think Bonner would be clutch in the post season.
dirk had 9 shots last night, you're telling me that had nothing to do with Bonner's physical defense all the way out to the 3pt line?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignignokt
cool:flag:Quote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
Since when timvp's opinions are facts?Quote:
Originally Posted by z0sa
:toast I bet you thought I became one when Manu came to SA.Quote:
Originally Posted by ducks
when is timvp going to do the obituary fot the season?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
You and 29 teams in the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by z0sa
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
When new guy came, you always overrated him. Casue Pop and RC couldn`t be wrong in taking players :hatQuote:
Originally Posted by Ignignokt
It is not Bonner fault that Spurs don`t get better big men for s5. If he plays less then 10 mpg, there wouldn`t be so many "Bonner sucks" threads.
Bonner had a pretty damn good regular season. He led the team in +/-, was near the top of the league in three-point shooting and his defense was much better than he will ever get credit for. The problem when you get a player from a lotto team is you don't know how they will respond to pressure. Unfortunately, Bonner proved during the regular season that he was probably a choker. Now that we are in the playoffs, he is definitely a choker.
His stats this year and the fact that he started most of the games exceeded my Bonner expectations. The fact that he has a Hedo-esque choke quality about him is unfortunate and not something the Spurs or anyone else could have known before putting him in pressure situations.
:tuQuote:
Originally Posted by timvp
I think my bottom line with Bonner is that he is a solid role player who performed admirably through much of the year, but in the end was probably relied upon a bit too much.
Can Bonner be a good role player for a good team? Yes, he has proven that this year.
Can Bonner be a good role player for a championship team? Probably, but he needs to learn how to play in the playoffs and under pressure before he reaches that level.
Can Bonner be the starting center of a championship team? Probably not. I love his energy, his shooting ability, and everything else he brings to the table, but championship teams almost always have defensive oriented centers who can protect the rim and grab rebounds at a clip higher than Bonner's perimeter-oriented game allows for.
He never should have been a starter. Energy role player off the bench- OK. Preferable choice when Scola could have been signed at the same time for the same money. Never.
Bonner sucks.
His defense sucks. He can't defend the paint against a half decent post player for shit.
Pop's scheme of a big man who can shoot the three, spread the floor is toast because less and less Duncan is commanding a double team in the post.
Also Duncan's mobility guarding the post is on a serious decline. Spurs need a second big that's a stronger defender.
Get rid of Bonner for whatever other one dimensional player he can bring for a similar contract that the Spurs could actually use.
wow, someone who's still a matt bonner fan after him putting up one of the most pathetic post-seasons in nba history. this is awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by z0sa
zosa, you are clearly a clueless moron. never post again.
no, he hasn't. he's contributed next to nothing after being give a TON of minutes. good role players can produce even in limited stretches.Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker23
Lol, like you can learn how to play under pressure. You're either the type of player that can handle pressure, or you're a spineless pussy that shrinks when the pressure's on, like Matt Boner. This isn't his first year in the league. This is the best he's ever going to be, a worthless big man that can hit a three in a meaningless game.Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker23
You hit the nail on the head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mal
this is what pop fails to recognize. he needs a big that can defend, rebound and score here and there. the 3 point shooting big is fools gold.Quote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
Pop fell in love with Robert Horry, and somewhere in the way he thought Matt could provide the same. Very big FAIL Pop.
Bonner was supposed to be a bench player when he arrived in San Antonio. A guy who comes in and gets 10-15 minutes of hustle play a night. Sometimes more minutes when he's raining 3's, sometimes less when the other team is too athletic.
By now, Mahinmi or Splitter should have been in a Spurs uniform alongside of Duncan on the front line. The Spurs were forced to give Bonner a bigger role and since he was shooting so well throughout this season (and they needed offense without Manu), it made sense.
The Spurs obviously gave up on being a defensive force early in the season. That's why Bonner remained a starter, Bowen went to the bench, and Hill didn't get off the pine. That was the mistake I think. They thought they didn't have the personnel to lock people down anymore. I think they still did.
I have done my share of Bonner hating, but I think it's silly to go off on the guy constantly. People were actually calling for his suicide after the last game. That's freakin' sick. It's a basketball game and he's a human being.
He's a guy who would have been a great energy player for 15 minutes a night, he was forced into a starting role and did what he could this year. I'm not apologizing for his wussy reluctance to shoot or his slumps at times, but people need to look at how this came about -- not just blame Bonner for not being able to be a different type of player.
Not only I agree, I don't think it's the guy's fault at all. I think this is a very bad gamble by our coach. And I think everyone saw a long time ago how this was going to play out, and that's why the constant bitching now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
Bonner does the best he can. You can't blame him for the effort. But he's just obviously not good enough.
There's a difference between choking and sucking. In the regular season, his team-best plus/minus numbers prove he had to be doing something right.Quote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
For a starting center, you can say he sucks. For a player in the NBA, he doesn't suck ... at least in the regular season.
Bonner's perimeter defense is actually damn good for a bigman. He can move his feet on the perimeter against smaller players and closes out well on shooters. To say his defense sucks is too large of a blanket statement.Quote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
In the paint against length, yeah he's sub par. He's non-existent in terms of being able to intimidate shots at the rim. Bonner also tends to allow his bad offense to flow over into his defensive play.
But right now against the Mavs, he's far and away the second best defensive bigman the Spurs have to combat what the Mavs want to do. And actually, the Mavs have adjusted their attack to avoid running a pick-and-roll when he's involved. As scary as it may be, the Mavs are showing more respect to Bonner's defense than any big on the team -- including Duncan.
Somewhat agree. When the day comes that team's stop doubling TD, then having a perimeter shooting big is far less important. And when the day comes that Duncan can't control the entire point, he'll need some help in terms of rebounding and shot blocking.Quote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
Hopefully the roster is adjusted over the summer to factor in those facts ... but hopefully Duncan's decline in those areas is due to injury and he can turn back the clock for at least one more season.
Bonner shouldn't be thrown away at this point. Salary dumping him would be a terrible idea. Even if the Spurs get blown out in Game 5 and Bonner sucks, moving him to a deeper bench role (where he should have been the whole time) is better than just throwing him away. He'd be useful going forward in certain matchups and his shooting would be useful against teams that sag.Quote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
But yeah, I agree the Spurs can't go into next year with all their eggs in the Bonner basket. They need a big that can take some of the interior pressure off of Duncan.
Thank you for being a voice of reason, Kori. Lots of great points. I agree with what you said about going off on Bonner (or any player) constantly, but more broadly, I wish more fans would stop seeing things in black and white. There are no players in the NBA who absolutely suck, and there are none who are going to perform every night. If you're going to heap criticisms or praises upon players on a basketball board, first buy a color TV set, develop a memory longer than a goldfish, and remember that "it's a basketball game and [the players are] human being[s]."Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
Even in the heat of the moment that one crossed a line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
I disagree.Quote:
Bonner shouldn't be thrown away at this point. Salary dumping him would be a terrible idea. Even if the Spurs get blown out in Game 5 and Bonner sucks, moving him to a deeper bench role (where he should have been the whole time) is better than just throwing him away. He'd be useful going forward in certain matchups and his shooting would be useful against teams that sag.
Bonner will just be another Finley 2.0 where Pop will give him a big chunk of minutes regardless of how it affects the game. Hell if he lays an egg in game 5 his role will probably become even bigger next season. That's the way it is.
He has to be jettisoned from the roster like Finley and KT and Vaughn and Oberto. It's too much temptation for Pop.
Of course there's what should be done, not what will be done. Like when they should have signed Scola. Like when they shouldn't have signed Elson/Butler. Like when they shouldn't have re-signed Finley and KT.
So I fully expect Bonner to return next season with a big role with the Spurs.
I agree with most of what Kori and timvp say. Just venting on Bonner to some extent from frustration. He is what he is. To bad that's the best the Spurs have.
I'm not as optimistic that Duncan's decline is not a little more than timvp is hoping and that he can still be an elite franchise player. A lot of people's premise is that since Duncan never relied on athleticism, loss of athleticism won't effect him as much as some. I think the opposite is true, that a little loss in athleticism will cost a lot in effectiveness, and I'm afraid we're beginning to see it.
Spurs better come up with something in the off season or Bonner's biggest contribution to the Spurs next year will be helping them to a great pick in the 2010 draft.
Bonner's numbers are uninspiring. Whether or not he was signed to play 10-15 minutes or to start, he is getting payed to perform just like the other players. Bonner has proven this year that he is just an ordinary player that shoots 3's extremely well in the regular season,except for the latter part of the season and playoff time.
Bonner has never played well against our Western Conference foes. And, continues to exemplify the type of player we don't want in a Spurs starting line-up. Unathletic and mentally weak. Not tough enough and only shoots 3's on a perfectly sunny day, weather just right, nobody near him, the Spurs in the lead so pressure is off, or at home near Boston. Lots of laughs. People want to applaud him for playing decent defense? Come-on. Wow-thanks Mattie, appreciate the earnest effort. A+ for effort. D+ for execution.
Bonner is a choker. Unfortunately that is more the norm than the exception. Not Mattie's fault. I guess we expected too much from Mattie? Only truly special players can withstand the mental pressure and toughness it takes to persevere through the playoffs. We have just been fortunate to have witnessed 4 Championships under players like Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Elliott, Robinson, Horry, Johnson, Elie, Rasho, Bowen, etc...
eww Kori is a girl
There was a scene from the first half yesterday where Parker was doing his thing and dished to Bonner in a the corner Bowen spot. Bonner leaned over and tried to reach the ball without unsetting his feet, lost his balance, the ball was turned over. This was a parallel crossover twilight zone thing of Hedo Turkoglu in the Laker series. Hedo refused to unset his feet, at the cost of allowing a ball to zip right by him, turning it over, and not even getting a shot off.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
It made me sad.
:wow That's a damn good connection I hadn't thought about. Bonner literally went Hedo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
Literally.
I remember that one time this thread sucked
Bonner is the Amish Hedo.
Spurs need a major overhaul with the role players.
Bonner is annoyingly white...and has an ugly shot...
Nobody puts Bonner in a corner. Nobody. :nope
couldn't Malik actually grab a rebound now and then though?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kori Ellis
Just for comparison's sake:Quote:
Originally Posted by peskypesky
Malik Rose career rebounds per 36 minutes: 9.1
Matt Bonner career rebounds/36 min: 7.0
(Rebounds per 36 minutes courtesy basketball-reference.com, so I don't have to calculate things myself)
Also found some good rebounds per 48 minutes stats, courtesy ESPN.com. Here are some comparable players for this season, all in rebounds per 48 minutes:Quote:
Originally Posted by lurker23
Michael Beasley: 10.5
David West: 10.4
LaMarcus Aldridge: 9.7
Matt Bonner: 9.6
Hakim Warrick: 9.6
Rasho Nesterovic: 9.5
Glen Davis: 8.8
Hilton Armstrong: 8.6
Don't confuse Dirk's chokeness with Bonner being awesome on defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by z0sa
i remember that. Bonner was figed on this action. a statue. but Tony's pass wasn't very precise either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
I saw Tony throw some of this "lazy", imprecise pass to open teamates, he needs to be more careful about it. We're talking about 1 or 2 times in a game but that could still count.
Tony needs to be in a very very relaxed and confident mindset to shoot the ball well, almost nonchalant and sometimes that could affect his passing and ball handling skills, where he needs a more focused and careful attitude.
Bonner's a bench player who's being forced to start, he's a forward who's being forced to play center, and he's routinely given minutes covering the most talented scoring bigs in the game. To suggest that his defense has been anything other than excellent shows complete ignorance of the game. Bonner has consistently been the best individual defender on the Spurs this year.
Bonner has done a good job on Dirk. but he has been weak on the board and the fact that he has to stay behind the 3pts line on offense and stay also in the perimeter on defense on Dirk doesn't help him to grab rebounds. That and Tim not being dominant on the glass make us a very weak rebounding team when Tim and Bonner are together on the court as our big men.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
I remember one time timvp gave spurs 40% of chance winning the 1st round series against Dallas, and people were trying to force him to get the percent above 50%.
Bonner and Finley are one and the same...but the Spurs have treated them like they should be major contributors. Bonner is somewhat understandable with our thin front line. As others have mentioned, we needed the scoring to make up for the loss of Manu.
It is what it is. All of us had worries about Bonner's ability to show up on the big stage, just like we said failure was likely imminent if Finley was playing 25+ minutes when the playoffs got here. Combine that with the Manu injury and the mishandling of the Hill/Mason situation and the recipe for disaster was complete.
I have also done my fair share of hating on Bonner, but the events that have transpired are far from his fault. I think Bonner can be a decent role player on this team, but he needs to go back to the bench and play the role that his potential will allow him to play.
With the exception of game 2, all series, when Dirk needed to make a bucket, he was able to get any shot he wanted on Bonner, with ease, including the bucket that pretty much iced it in G4. Other than that, Dirk has pretty much been letting Howard, Barea, and Kidd be the stars of the series, stepping in only when needed. A lot of that is because the Spurs have been running double teams at Dirk the moment he puts the ball on the floor, not because of Bonner's defense.
Bonner sucks, and its comical that people even begin to think that he truly has done a good job on Dirk.
Dirk, overall on the whole serie, has missed 56 % of his shots. that's hardly "getting any shot he wanted".Quote:
Originally Posted by stretch
Please don't forget we're sending double and triple teams at Dirk. It's not like Matt is guarding that guy one on one.
umm..Quote:
Originally Posted by kace
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Most of the times Dirk has actually gotten one-on-one situations with Bonner, he was able to get any shot he wanted. See the end of G4.
Hedo sure didn't choke last night.
Meanwhile in Houston....
My boy works there as an engineer and he reminds me daily.
It's not Bonner's fault, but still don't make excuses and give him props for doing the best he can...
He's not the type of big to start along with Duncan, not what Duncan needs in this point of his career.
And Duncan being injured magnifies it all, so does the playoffs.
I appreciate Bonner, but not as the starting center for the Spurs.
But the Spurs have more reasons than Bonner for this years fiasco.
us spurs fans are brats, bonner did well in the regular season, yah, he's just having a hard time in the playoffs. but you gotta remember, this is his first playoffs he's played with such a big role. he was a bench warmer in playoffs past.