Does it really matter? I mean ... can either of these teams beat the Lakers?

As a Mavs fan, we'd love to get out of the first round for the first time in three years. Maybe we could even beat the Nuggets. If that happens we can call this season a success.

But if the Spurs win and then they beat the Nuggets and lose to the Lakers, can they call this season a success?

I think the answer is "no". Furthermore, I think that's why we've seen a lot of the Spur players not named Parker have sub-par series.

Just being an armchair psychologist here, but it seems likethe Mavs want it more than the Spurs. That may be because losing to the Lakers would be a good outcome for the Mavs, but a bad outcome for the Spurs.

You guys have a better chance then we do. Finally a Mavs fan that keeps it real. If or when the Mavs go on to the next series they better step it up a notch because this Spurs team is not a good barometer for the level of basketball that needs to be played to beat the top teams in the playoffs.

Spurs are injured, old, imbalanced, and lost their identity on the defense end among other things..

GL though. An upset or 2 and getting hot at the right time and who knows. Anything can happen.

Yeah...the sad truth is that nobody is getting by the Lakers in the West this year.

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Originally Posted by jack0fspeed

As a Mavs fan, we'd love to get out of the first round for the first time in three years. Maybe we could even beat the Nuggets. If that happens we can call this season a success.

But if the Spurs win and then they beat the Nuggets and lose to the Lakers, can they call this season a success?

I think the answer is "no". Furthermore, I think that's why we've seen a lot of the Spur players not named Parker have sub-par series.

Just being an armchair psychologist here, but it seems likethe Mavs want it more than the Spurs. That may be because losing to the Lakers would be a good outcome for the Mavs, but a bad outcome for the Spurs.

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Finally a Mav fan who gets it--gets that the Spurs are not satisfied unless they win a Championship. It does look like the Mavs will get out of the series against us. But Mavs will have to kick up a few notches in the next round. The Spurs really are depleted and they haven't looked this out of sync in eons. So, we really aren't a good barometer since we are not at full force.

This year is a disappointment for us no matter how you slice it. You are correct that it is a losing season to many Spur fans because they will not win the LOB. Thus you're right, advancing is never the goal of the Spurs -- it's winning the LOB or bust. The goal is reaching the Finals and having to play for the LOB again. We have been spoiled in the Duncan era and it is just what we expect every year. I want to thank Tim Duncan for setting such a high standard. :toast

So, enjoy your ride this year, I think your team deserves some happiness for all the heartaches they have suffered in the past. Good luck.

No doubt the winner of this series will probably have to step up their play to beat a tough Denver team. For the Mavs, this series would be a big win for their confidence if nothing else.

The Spurs clearly have a few more years of window left. Duncan and Ginobili need to get healthy ... maybe that would be enough to beat LA. But I would think that you would also want to upgrade SF and/or backup PG.

I don't think the Mavs have much of a chance to beat LA. LA has too much offense and passing ability in their front court. Dirk would have to guard Gasol or Bynum ... I just don't see how it could happen.

How the hell would we know if we don't try

It's Championship or nothing but you always want to see your team play to its fullest potential. Regardless of injuries.

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Originally Posted by tmtcsc

It's Championship or nothing but you always want to see your team play to its fullest potential. Regardless of injuries.

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Sure you do. But basketball is a game of confidence. If you don't believe you are going to win, you are probably going to underperform.

To me, the Spurs mailed-in effort in G3 was a red flag. Sure the Mavs did the same in G2, but that's nothing new for them.

I'm looking at the Spurs and I'm thinking that they can't think the Mavs are unbeatable. It's got to be something else.

Cavs-Lakers final is inevitable. Cavs probably have the best chance to beat the Lakers in a series.

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Originally Posted by TampaDude

Yeah...the sad truth is that nobody is getting by the Lakers in the West this year.

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I agree; on paper, it looks like a walk for them even though the Rockets, Mavs and Nuggets are playing well. However, on the court, anything can happen but I think the Lakers are almost a shoe in to represent the wc in June.

Yes it does matter.

Nobody gonna sit here and tell me I can't enjoy my guys in blue just because they're not winning a title.

If that was the case, I wouldn't have bothered watching all season. It was pretty clear from the gitgo that the Lakers were two notches above every other team in the West.

Given the rollercoaster year for Mavs, where they looked like 9th or 8th place team for large chunks, where they had many losses by 20+ points, where they struggled with a bunch of lottery teams, it would be a nice reward if they beat the Spurs in 1st round even in their weakened state.

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Originally Posted by jack0fspeed

As a Mavs fan, we'd love to get out of the first round for the first time in three years. Maybe we could even beat the Nuggets. If that happens we can call this season a success.

But if the Spurs win and then they beat the Nuggets and lose to the Lakers, can they call this season a success?

I think the answer is "no". Furthermore, I think that's why we've seen a lot of the Spur players not named Parker have sub-par series.

Just being an armchair psychologist here, but it seems likethe Mavs want it more than the Spurs. That may be because losing to the Lakers would be a good outcome for the Mavs, but a bad outcome for the Spurs.

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That is why I have been stating that this is a meaningless series.

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Originally Posted by Ghazi

Yes it does matter.

Nobody gonna sit here and tell me I can't enjoy my guys in blue just because they're not winning a title.

If that was the case, I wouldn't have bothered watching all season. It was pretty clear from the gitgo that the Lakers were two notches above every other team in the West.

Given the rollercoaster year for Mavs, where they looked like 9th or 8th place team for large chunks, where they had many losses by 20+ points, where they struggled with a bunch of lottery teams, it would be a nice reward if they beat the Spurs in 1st round even in their weakened state.

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:toast
Most people actually picked Dallas to win this opening series believe it or not considering SA's problems with injuries, age, etc. It's nice to be proud of your team especially when they perform better than expected.

no, it does not matter.

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Originally Posted by Ghazi

Yes it does matter.

Nobody gonna sit here and tell me I can't enjoy my guys in blue just because they're not winning a title.

If that was the case, I wouldn't have bothered watching all season. It was pretty clear from the gitgo that the Lakers were two notches above every other team in the West.

Given the rollercoaster year for Mavs, where they looked like 9th or 8th place team for large chunks, where they had many losses by 20+ points, where they struggled with a bunch of lottery teams, it would be a nice reward if they beat the Spurs in 1st round even in their weakened state.

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so your gonna be happy just cuz the mavs beat the spurs knowin that they arent playing at their best? you would rather take a win because the spurs are down and missing one of their major key players?

as for the guy who did the original post i would like to see more mavs fans like you! i love the spurs and one of my good friends are mavs fan, I actually have like 4 or 5. I wish the mavs fans like this guy who posted this would step forward and post on here instead of the ones who are always talking their mess

8 playoff victories consititutes a sucessful season IMO. . . . . anything between 9-12 (let alone 13-16) is just gravy. We'll be active this off season.

The difference is Mark shows up every season to make his team better by adding young talent. Got to admit for the first time ever. Mark has done a fine job regardless of how their seasons end up. We went from not so hot to really really not so hot in a couple of seasons.

Neither of these teams can beat the Lakers this year, no. In fact, it has been my observation that both of these teams are fighting for the right to lose in the next round. But that doesn't mean that they wouldn't LIKE to get further than the first round.

Count on the fact that every contract for every player and every coach has a clause ( or clauses) that specify the bonus money available for getting to each round of the playoffs. And for certain of the players, the clause will specify how much they have to contribute to the team winning each series in order to get the bonus. So they all have motivation for wanting to get further.

Think about the games in this series: game 1 - the role players shot the lights out for the Spurs, but we lost anyway. Surely they were trying then. In the second game, we won. In the third game, the Mavs played the best they have played in a long time, but we still held their big guys, Nowitzki and Terry, to sub-par games. Tim couldn't deliver in that game, and most folks believe that he is pretty competitive, so that isn't the problem. Then there was the 4th game, when Tony tried to do all that he could and the role players all choked, including Finley. So... the Spurs have hurt the Mavs play, but they (the Spurs) just haven't been able to deliver.

Ergo, neither of these teams is gonna survive the next round.

I think the next round will prove that this serie is a lot more competitive that people think.

The mavs or the spurs will give a hard time to Denver and could really win and make it to the WCF IMO.

Against LA, right now, i just don't see any team in the west able to compete.

I agree with Ghazi it's nice to see your team actually advance in the playoffs, but as for the initial question I don't see the winner of this series beating the nugz, let alone the Lakers.

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Originally Posted by tmtcsc

It's Championship or nothing but you always want to see your team play to its fullest potential. Regardless of injuries.

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Championship or nothing my ass. The championship is the ultimate goal, but it's absurd to say there's only two categories. The Lakers had a better season last year than anyone but the Celtics. The Spurs had a better season last year than the Mavs. The Warriors had a better season in 2007 than the Timberwolves.

You want the championship, but anything short of the championship is still better than the stuff below it.

I sure as hell would rather the Cowboys make the playoffs and lose in the first round every year than not make the playoffs.

As to the original post, no, neither team can beat the Lakers. But it still matters, for the aforementioned reason. And for the pride of the players/coaches.

I think it does matter, but not for this year. I'd agree with the general proposition that there isn't a team in the West that will beat LA, absent a rash of key injuries in Los Angeles. They're too long and athletic for everyone and when all else fails, they have Kobe's big-game ego to fall back upon.

Where I think the course of this series does matter is in deciding how to proceed from here. Maybe a continued struggle to find scoring from sources beyond the Big 3 convinces Spurs management that it's time to recrack the window on the Duncan era by finally committing to youth (ala the summer of 2002). Maybe it convinces them to find whatever way possible to get Tiago Splitter here -- or to get something truly useful from his rights. Maybe it convinces the Spurs to pony up the $3 million it might take to buy someone's #1 pick and infuse youth that way.

Whatever the path, getting bounced early (all relative, I guess -- so many teams would love to be facing the possibility of not winning a series for the first time in nearly a decade) might be the impetus that the Spurs need to make changes; winning the series and advancing a couple of rounds might be worse for the Spurs by suggesting (erroneously) that a healthy Manu is all that separates the Spurs from a real shot at another title.

Props to the Mavs for playing harder and better through 4 games than the Spurs have.

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Originally Posted by DubMcDub

Championship or nothing my ass. The championship is the ultimate goal, but it's absurd to say there's only two categories. The Lakers had a better season last year than anyone but the Celtics. The Spurs had a better season last year than the Mavs. The Warriors had a better season in 2007 than the Timberwolves.

You want the championship, but anything short of the championship is still better than the stuff below it.

I sure as hell would rather the Cowboys make the playoffs and lose in the first round every year than not make the playoffs.

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See, it's not absurd. Spur fans are not happy just advancing and having a good season. Seriously, anything less than an LOB blows. Listen to the Spur players themselves talk, a Championship means a successful year. Nothing else matters.

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

I think it does matter, but not for this year. I'd agree with the general proposition that there isn't a team in the West that will beat LA, absent a rash of key injuries in Los Angeles. They're too long and athletic for everyone and when all else fails, they have Kobe's big-game ego to fall back upon.

Where I think the course of this series does matter is in deciding how to proceed from here. Maybe a continued struggle to find scoring from sources beyond the Big 3 convinces Spurs management that it's time to recrack the window on the Duncan era by finally committing to youth (ala the summer of 2002). Maybe it convinces them to find whatever way possible to get Tiago Splitter here -- or to get something truly useful from his rights. Maybe it convinces the Spurs to pony up the $3 million it might take to buy someone's #1 pick and infuse youth that way.

Whatever the path, getting bounced early (all relative, I guess -- so many teams would love to be facing the possibility of not winning a series for the first time in nearly a decade) might be the impetus that the Spurs need to make changes; winning the series and advancing a couple of rounds might be worse for the Spurs by suggesting (erroneously) that a healthy Manu is all that separates the Spurs from a real shot at another title.

Props to the Mavs for playing harder and better through 4 games than the Spurs have.

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Originally Posted by Spursmania

See, it's not absurd. Spur fans are not happy just advancing and having a good season. Seriously, anything less than an LOB blows. Listen to the Spur players themselves talk, a Championship means a successful year. Nothing else matters.

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That's because Spurs fans and players collectively suffer from a massive case of self-entitlement. But that doesn't mean it's a reasonable or logical way to approach things. The issue of whether there's only one ultimate goal is separate from the issue of whether there's only one barometer of "success."

If you have a season like the Spurs did last year, that's a damn good season. It's not a complete success, but it's nothing to be ashamed of. You got to enjoy a lot more games than most NBA fans.

Ehh I could see Denver beating the Lakers. It would be a long shot 7 game series, but they could do it. The Mavs-Spurs series was mainly just for pride I guess.

Does it really matter... what a silly question. Why don't the Mavs sit out next year if you guys think like that. Because the Lakers aren't going anywhere.

Also why are people applauding his reasoning? Finally a Mavs fan that gets it? What realization has he come to exactly?

It's understandable to try and find solace after defeat, but that attitude of "oh well even if we did win we have to play the Lakers" is weak.


What matters to me is how the Spurs fare and the way they are playing win or lose.

Truthfully I know the Spurs have no business winning the LOB this year, not with the level of their play, the uncertainty of the team, lack of stalwart defense and execution, mental blips... dearth of talent, or its failure to manifest, on top of being banged up, and missing a key player.

Never so late in the season have I seen the Spurs in this state.

I am disappointed but still hold out hope.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DubMcDub

That's because Spurs fans and players collectively suffer from a massive case of self-entitlement. But that doesn't mean it's a reasonable or logical way to approach things. The issue of whether there's only one ultimate goal is separate from the issue of whether there's only one barometer of "success."

If you have a season like the Spurs did last year, that's a damn good season. It's not a complete success, but it's nothing to be ashamed of. You got to enjoy a lot more games than most NBA fans.

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I don't think the Spurs players believe themselves entitled to anything. In fact, I find that statement to be bizarrely unsupportable.

I think they get easily disappointed and frustrated at this point because things aren't as easy for them as they've been in the past. And I do think that if your expectations are championships and you fall short, it's reasonable to consider that season a failure. I HOPE the Spurs players expect championships and I HOPE they're disappointed if their season ends without one. Even if such a season is objectively successful (relative to all but a small number of other clubs), I HOPE that being disappointed by only relative success is a motivator for the next season.

Spurs fans (in many cases) have gone overboard with the belief that a season is unenjoyable without a championship; but I think Spurs players have, by and large, been gracious (if extremely competitive) losers when they haven't won and very gracious winners when they have. Having listened to just about every post-game from just about every playoff game that this team has played for the last 12 years, I think you'd be really hard-pressed to point to anything suggesting that they have the smug sense of entitlement that the Shaq/Kobe Lakers manifested.

No way in hell. No one is beating the Lakers except maybe the Cavs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DubMcDub

That's because Spurs fans and players collectively suffer from a massive case of self-entitlement. But that doesn't mean it's a reasonable or logical way to approach things. The issue of whether there's only one ultimate goal is separate from the issue of whether there's only one barometer of "success."

If you have a season like the Spurs did last year, that's a damn good season. It's not a complete success, but it's nothing to be ashamed of. You got to enjoy a lot more games than most NBA fans.

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What are you talking about? You mean the Spur players and fans, in your opinion, must be satisfied with advancing and having a good showing in the postseason even if they don't win the LOB or else they suffer from a sense of entitlement? That's pretty far reaching. But, I guess it's all relative depending on which player or which fan you ask.

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

I think it does matter, but not for this year. I'd agree with the general proposition that there isn't a team in the West that will beat LA, absent a rash of key injuries in Los Angeles. They're too long and athletic for everyone and when all else fails, they have Kobe's big-game ego to fall back upon.

Where I think the course of this series does matter is in deciding how to proceed from here. Maybe a continued struggle to find scoring from sources beyond the Big 3 convinces Spurs management that it's time to recrack the window on the Duncan era by finally committing to youth (ala the summer of 2002). Maybe it convinces them to find whatever way possible to get Tiago Splitter here -- or to get something truly useful from his rights. Maybe it convinces the Spurs to pony up the $3 million it might take to buy someone's #1 pick and infuse youth that way.

Whatever the path, getting bounced early (all relative, I guess -- so many teams would love to be facing the possibility of not winning a series for the first time in nearly a decade) might be the impetus that the Spurs need to make changes; winning the series and advancing a couple of rounds might be worse for the Spurs by suggesting (erroneously) that a healthy Manu is all that separates the Spurs from a real shot at another title.

Props to the Mavs for playing harder and better through 4 games than the Spurs have.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

I don't think the Spurs players believe themselves entitled to anything. In fact, I find that statement to be bizarrely unsupportable.

I think they get easily disappointed and frustrated at this point because things aren't as easy for them as they've been in the past. And I do think that if your expectations are championships and you fall short, it's reasonable to consider that season a failure. I HOPE the Spurs players expect championships and I HOPE they're disappointed if their season ends without one. Even if such a season is objectively successful (relative to all but a small number of other clubs), I HOPE that being disappointed by only relative success is a motivator for the next season.

Spurs fans (in many cases) have gone overboard with the belief that a season is unenjoyable without a championship; but I think Spurs players have, by and large, been gracious (if extremely competitive) losers when they haven't won and very gracious winners when they have. Having listened to just about every post-game from just about every playoff game that this team has played for the last 12 years, I think you'd be really hard-pressed to point to anything suggesting that they have the smug sense of entitlement that the Shaq/Kobe Lakers manifested.

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These two posts are, bar none, the most intelligent bits of commentary I've read on these boards in...well, since I started reading these boards.

I've thoroughly enjoyed this season, and it's been great fun to watch the Spurs play. They've had some great games...and, of course, some games I'd rather forget about. TP has been great; Manu has been invisible. Wins against the Lakers and Celtics had me cheering; games against OKC had me moaning.

It's been a great season.

If they can't make it out of the first round (which, granted, would suck), then I hope they can come back with some fire and energy next year (as well as...AHEM...some good offseason player movement).

It isn't over yet. But whatever happens, win or lose tomorrow, I'm a fan for life.

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Originally Posted by DubMcDub

That's because Spurs fans and players collectively suffer from a massive case of self-entitlement.

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Wow. Just wow. One of THE most ridiculous statements I've ever read this year.

^I think you are entitled to an explanation... :D

in a word.....no

Perhaps the extra revenue is important to the the team.

I didn't think the Spurs sans Manu could take the Mavs to six games, and I'm sure neither team can beat either the Lakers or the Nuggets.

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Originally Posted by TampaDude

Yeah...the sad truth is that nobody is getting by the Lakers in the West this year.

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that writing's been on the wall for a while.