the *OFFICIAL* off-season thread..

let's use this thread to discuss this upcoming off-season and potential moves..I hope we can stay in this thread, so everything doesn't get spread out everywhere..

free agents: Ime Udoka, Jacque Vaughn, partial contracts of Bowen and Oberto..

valuable assets: the rest of the team except for Duncan and Parker can all expire for the 2010 off-season, which can be packaged to teams looking to shed $ for 2010..

potential targets for free agency: Drew Gooden, Rasheed Wallace, Antonio McDyess, Dahntay Jones, Zaza Pachulia, Ryan Hollins, Brandon Bass, Gerald Green, Chris Andersen, Rasho Nesterovic, Jamario Moon, Rodney Carney, Stromile Swift, Desmond Mason, Marcin Gortat, Matt Barnes, Grant Hill..

potential trade targets: Andray Blatche/Deshawn Stevenson, Fransisco Garcia, Martell Webster, Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson, Stephen Jackson, Boris Diaw..

potential role players from inside the organization: Ian Mahinmi, Malik Hairston, Marcus Williams, James Gist..

Good start...and moments after the funeral has ended.

what makes this official?

This team is in sorry shape. May be even worse next year, even with Ginobili back.

Granted the Spurs lost in what was probably their most embarassing playoff exit in recent years, but I believe next season we Spurs fans will be in for a great year. Don't ask me why... it's a gut feeling. :toast

I HATE THE MAVS!!! Well, Jason Terry mostly.

People were posting "gut feelings" about the Spurs being successful this post season...I'd love to hear some concrete evidence for a change...

All this means is the odd-year curse has been broken. Next year, the Spurs begin their 3-peat.

I'd rather not talk about next season, which is 5 months away.

Free agents take at least a year to gain Pop's full trust and Pop doesn't trust rookies full stop. Unless Pop has a "coming to Jesus moment" regarding his rigid system, where can we go from here?

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Originally Posted by Capt Bringdown

Free agents take at least a year to gain Pop's full trust and Pop doesn't trust rookies full stop. Unless Pop has a "coming to Jesus moment" regarding his rigid system, where can we go from here?

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New coach?

lol, the TNT guys just did the "gone fishing" thing w/ the Spurs & Eva :|

Do we even have a draft pick this summer? We really need some fresh legs on this team

I believe with the big 3 healthy we can still make a push.

Assuming Bruce is leaving, I agree with SenorSpur that we need to make a push towards Dahntay Jones. Getting perimeter D from him and George Hill would be great.

We obviously need to target an additional shot blocker/rebounder.

Gooden most likely won't be back, and same with Oberto. Not sure how I feel about the Spurs trying for Sheed.

Count me in: Dahntay Jones. I'm a believer. We need to get back to being a defensive team.

At least we get a few extra weeks off towards next year.
Have to look for a bright side...:depressed

Come on, we all knew the run would not last this year.

we should look at matt barnes, we a need a real thug on this team, make those morons earn them fouls, this guy has really improve his game this year with the suns.....

zaza pachulia if he could play with the same intensity like last season in the playoffs, he would be a nice pickup....he will costs us probably the whole MLE or a trade....

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Originally Posted by bdictjames

I'd rather not talk about next season, which is 5 months away.

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only five months?:lol

I'm actually not disappointed at all..I wanted a first round exit to give Duncan more rest..it was obvious we weren't winning shit without Manu and an injured Duncan..finals or bust..the only bad part is it had to be against an ugly, disgusting Mavs team..

Matt Barnes is one of the guys I prefer..he's on my top 3 SF acquisitions through the free agent market..he's shown he can play good D, he can make 3s, he's tough, and he can even slash to the basket..

I don't think I want Zaza though..I wouldn't mind him if Duncan was still in his prime, but we need shot blocking now..Duncan can't block shots like he used to obviously..

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Originally Posted by Evan

what makes this official?

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The fact that Harlem Heat made it official... :) That's all the reason I need...dude's a great poster.

The team is on the cusp of going either way really, but it all depends on what the front-office can bring in to aid Duncan, Parker and Ginobili. I'd like to see Hill, Mason, Bowen, Thomas and (yes) Bonner return. If the team can manage to bring in an athletic wing (Rodney Carney or Travis Outlaw) and a defensive big (Rasheed Wallace or Rasho Nestrovic). Also, I'd like to see what a few of the other developing players can do early next season.

that's actually a great way of putting it..

this team can go either way..it can easily go from tweaking it to a good title run for the next 2 years..or keep going downhill with old has-beens..

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Originally Posted by Capt Bringdown

Free agents take at least a year to gain Pop's full trust and Pop doesn't trust rookies full stop. Unless Pop has a "coming to Jesus moment" regarding his rigid system, where can we go from here?

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mayeb pop should look at the players thats been on our summer camps in the pasts, and see who has improve over the years on other teams...barnes, salmons, etc

resign horry

Too bad we don't have a 1st round pick this year...talk about bad timing.

I like Spurs going after Moon or maybe even Grant Hill if he can come cheap

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Matt Barnes is one of the guys I prefer..he's on my top 3 SF acquisitions through the free agent market..he's shown he can play good D, he can make 3s, he's tough, and he can even slash to the basket..

I don't think I want Zaza though..I wouldn't mind him if Duncan was still in his prime, but we need shot blocking now..Duncan can't block shots like he used to obviously..

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matt barnes is an overrated chucker with low bball IQ.

I really think this team should make a trade though..with the amount of expiring contracts we have, we shouldn't let it go to waste..

the Bucks have already made it clear that they would trade RJ..they tried to trade him for Portland's expirings..

Stephen Jackson is obviously possible with Golden State's abundance of swingmen, and he's on a bad contract..

You know who's gotten a pass ? Kurt Thomas. What did he do for us this year ? We need to move him and see what we can get. What a waste.

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Originally Posted by xellos88330

Granted the Spurs lost in what was probably their most embarassing playoff exit in recent years, but I believe next season we Spurs fans will be in for a great year. Don't ask me why... it's a gut feeling. :toast

I HATE THE MAVS!!! Well, Jason Terry mostly.

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At least most of you don't live in the Dallas metro area. I've got to listen to these douchebags talk about how they ended the Spur dynasty. Don't matter. I'm still going to keep rockin' my Spurs apparel

I congratulate the Mavs, but, as always, I'll be rooting for them to get their asses kicked in the next round.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

that's actually a great way of putting it..

this team can go either way..it can easily go from tweaking it to a good title run for the next 2 years..or keep going downhill with old has-beens..

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I always saw this season much like '03, meaning that it was a transitional year for the team. Yet, all of the injuries (Manu, Tony, Timmy and Ian) didn't aid in that transitional process. Hopefully, Mason and Hill can take this season as a learning experience and comeback better and stronger for next season.

Side-note: If the team could improve the roster with younger talent next season, while bringing in Splitter in the summer of '10, there isn't any reason why the title run can't be extended.

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

At least most of you don't live in the Dallas metro area. I've got to listen to these douchebags talk about how they ended the Spur dynasty. Don't matter. I'm still going to keep rockin' my Spurs apparel

I congratulate the Mavs, but, as always, I'll be rooting for them to get their asses kicked in the next round.

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And they will. Denver is on fire. Dallas is a collection of shit heads.

honestly if fin retires and we get rid of udoka and bonner then the offseason should be considered a success no matter who we get to replace them.

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Originally Posted by Capt Bringdown

Too bad we don't have a 1st round pick this year...talk about bad timing.

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Well, that 1st round pick probably wouldn't get to play much after the all-star break anyways...

When does FA start?

I'd love to see Rasheed and Ariza here.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

Matt Barnes is one of the guys I prefer..he's on my top 3 SF acquisitions through the free agent market..he's shown he can play good D, he can make 3s, he's tough, and he can even slash to the basket..

I don't think I want Zaza though..I wouldn't mind him if Duncan was still in his prime, but we need shot blocking now..Duncan can't block shots like he used to obviously..

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I wanted Barnes last year. In fact, he sat around most of the offseason expecting a substantial FA deal. Because of the Corey Maggette fiasco, he was forced to wait until nearly the end of the summer. He signed a one-year FA deal with the Suns for the minimum. We definitely could use him. Keep in mind, he defended Dirk very well, back when he was with the Warriors.

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Originally Posted by Death In June

When does FA start?

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July 1st

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Originally Posted by Death In June

When does FA start?

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July I think.

Top three needs IMO:

1. another athletic slasher type who can create his own shot
2. Another low post player to pair with Timmy
3. another tough-minded defender role player off the bench

This is what I want to happen, but it depends on three things: Will the Spurs scrap the 2010 plan, open up their wallets and go into win now mode in order to maximize Tim's years here?

If they are willing to do all of those things here is what they need to do in my opinion:

1) Really Target Team Needs: What does this team need? A true center that can help Tim patrol the paint along with rebound at a high rate. More than ever it has become evident that Tim can no longer do it on his own. It will go along way to improving the Spurs defense along with giving Tim some rest on that end.

Go for athletic wings that can do this combonation: Defend with some size and speed, hit the 3 efficiently or score efficiently. I would say lean to the scoring. Not all the way, but do not think you can find the Bowen replacement today. If you can get someone who is a solid defender and a better scorer, than it will go a long way to improving the line up.

How do you do this?

1) Buy into the Buyers Market: If people are willing to part with elite talent in order to increase cap space and shed salary, then the Spurs need to buy now. Especially if it is a player that fits a situational and positional need.

This especially makes sense if the player is relatively young and would be just as good as who the Spurs could expect to get in 2010 with the anticipated cap space. The NBA has shown that this is a distinct possibility, and the Spurs need to be ready to pounce. Spurs have 3 guys in Oberto/Mason/Bowen whom they can trade (because they expire in 2010) that will allow for the Spurs to trade for someone who makes 15 million dollars. That can buy you a nice player.

This becomes double effective if you can do so without trading Ginobili. Obviously, out of the big 3, Manu is the most likely to be traded. If you can use some kind of combo of players like I mentioned to get talent, without giving up Gino it would be a major bonus.

3) Use all of the MLE if the Right Player Comes Along: The spurs need to look for forwards and centers. If the Spurs can fulfill one need by trading, they need to use the MLE to target the other needs.

Do not just waste money, but if you have an opportunity to sign someone for a bargain (meaning somewhat of a good player who cannot really command more than the full MLE a la Maggette) then they need to do it.

With the combination of trades and the MLE, the Spurs have some options if they are willing to open up the checkbook. Will they? Probably not to the degree that I outlined, but I hope they try and win now, and worry about the future down the road when we do not have Duncan to appreciate any more.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

How do you do this?

1) Buy into the Buyers Market: If people are willing to part with elite talent in order to increase cap space and shed salary, then the Spurs need to buy now. Especially if it is a player that fits a situational and positional need.

This especially makes sense if the player is relatively young and would be just as good as who the Spurs could expect to get in 2010 with the anticipated cap space. The NBA has shown that this is a distinct possibility, and the Spurs need to be ready to pounce. Spurs have 3 guys in Oberto/Mason/Bowen whom they can trade (because they expire in 2010) that will allow for the Spurs to trade for someone who makes 15 million dollars. That can buy you a nice player.

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2010 plan we dont have one or have a chance of signin some big name player,

i fkn throw in ginoboli as trade bait also since his contract is expiring if it helps us get someone back in return.....maybe joe johnson of the hawks who has 14m outstanding on his contract....

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Originally Posted by TDMVPDPOY

2010 plan we dont have one or have a chance of signin some big name player,

i fkn throw in ginoboli as trade bait also since his contract is expiring if it helps us get someone back in return.....maybe joe johnson of the hawks who has 14m outstanding on his contract....

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See this is where these ideas get whacky. If the Spurs for some reason do not extend Manu, then they will have money to sign a pretty big name player.

But assuming the Spurs do extend Manu, it will hurt their cap space for 2010. But why on earth would the Hawks want Ginobili for Joe Johnson? He is a guy to keep for a franchise that is growing.

The people the Spurs should be looking at are teams that are going backwards and have salary on their hands. Teams looking to make a splash in 2010.

He's probably too immature but I'm liking Ryan Hollins. Not just because of his short stint in these playoffs but how he finished the year off too. He wouldn't solve all the center problems but he'd be a nice start and shouldn't cost an arm and leg.

I like Barnes for his toughness and defense. He's improved his outside shot and itsn't afraid to mix it up. I think he's matured since the Spurs last looked at him.

I think Hairston will get a shot to prove he belongs.

Hill will be much stronger and probably looked at as this years first rounder.

The 3 second round draft picks will either be included in a trade or stashed.

Our center/PF position is in severe trouble.

KT fell off this year
Oberto fell off this year and had health problems
Gooden was useless as he proved with his 0 basketball IQ
Bonner fell off at the end of the season.

Our SG/SF spots are just as bad looking.

Finley is done
Udoka is streaky
Mason is too one-dimensional
Bowen is almost done

This is going to be an off-season with more questions than answers. Looking at the people I listed, I am shocked that we somehow got the 3rd seed with those kind of role players.

Sign Sheed for the MLE. Trade expirings for Richard Jefferson. Sign Rodney Carney or Dahntay Jones with the LLE.

Could we get PJ Carlesimo back, please?

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

let's use this thread to discuss this upcoming off-season and potential moves..I hope we can stay in this thread, so everything doesn't get spread out everywhere..

free agents: Ime Udoka, Jacque Vaughn, partial contracts of Bowen and Oberto..

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Hope Ime, JV, and Fab are not resigned, and someone convinces Fin and Bonner to retire

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valuable assets: the rest of the team except for Duncan and Parker can all expire for the 2010 off-season, which can be packaged to teams looking to shed $ for 2010..

potential targets for free agency: Drew Gooden, Rasheed Wallace, Antonio McDyess, Dahntay Jones, Zaza Pachulia, Ryan Hollins, Brandon Bass, Gerald Green, Chris Andersen, Rasho Nesterovic, Jamario Moon, Rodney Carney, Stromile Swift, Desmond Mason, Marcin Gortat, Matt Barnes, Grant Hill..

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Drew, Dahntay, Barners, Bass, or Moon.

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potential trade targets: Andray Blatche/Deshawn Stevenson, Fransisco Garcia, Martell Webster, Tyson Chandler, Vince Carter, Richard Jefferson, Stephen Jackson, Boris Diaw..

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Chandler or Jeff. Hope no one watched Bonner in the playoffs.

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potential role players from inside the organization: Ian Mahinmi, Malik Hairston, Marcus Williams, James Gist..

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I think Ian, Gist, and Malik will all be rotation players next year, especially if Fab, Ime, Fin/Bruce, and JV are gone. Hope Pop doesn't go for Sheed or Grant Hill like a dumb shit.

my question has been, and will continue to be the same:

does anyone have a viable plan that doesnt push the spurs into the luxury tax?

im not saying the spurs will 100% not be paying the tax, but i havnt seen too many plans here that abide by the above constraint. and that has to be looked at as a possible scenario, no?

how about some ex-nba players in europe?

childs? << how many years he has left on his contract?
delfino?

Does anyone really believe the Spurs will overhaul half the team? And expect that many players to learn the system and be ready for the playoffs? I don't. I expect a few changes and that's it.

Vaughn and Udoka are gone for sure. I'm sure Oberto will be nudged into retirement. That's 3 new players already.

Gooden being tied to the bench in favor of Bonner probably didn't sell him on returning. That's 4 new players now.

Bowen is a question mark at this point. That's possibly 5 new players should he retire or the Spurs waive/trade him.

I'm sure they'll look to move Bonner and Thomas but not sure the return is big enough.

Finley will likely be back. It's true the Spurs could trade him but since he doesn't make that much he'd have to be included in a bigger deal to get anything of importance in return.

My dream scenario would be to Sign Sheed for the MLE short term. Then trade Mason/ Bonner/ Bowen/ Oberto to Milwaukee for Richard Jefferson. Then sign Carney/ Moon/ Barnes for the LLE.

That would give us:

Parker/ Hill
Manu/ Finley/ Hill
Jefferson/ Carney or Moon or Barnes or Jones/ (Gist/ Hairston/ Williams)*wildcards*
Tim/ Mahimni/ Vet minimum signing/ 37th draft pick?
Sheed/ Kurt/ Vet minimum signing


Big men for the vet minimum i'd consider:
Chris Mihm
Rasho Nestorovic
Malik Rose
Melvin Ely
Theo Ratliff
Jarrod Collins
Sheldon Williams ( even though not a vet)

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

what would be your ideal scenario, ss?

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Its about the best possible scenario. There is absolutely no reason to believe that the Spurs will exceed the luxury tax. To me, any discussion of possible strategies that does not account for the luxury tax is just fantasy basketball and cannot happen in the real world.

Unless you are willing to trade Tim, Tony, or Manu then the following simple math problem must be overcome before, IMO, any scenario can considered realistic:

Per Stern's letter to NBA, projected lux tax for next year will be 69.4M.

The Big 3 are on the books for 45.5M next year.

The difference between those two numbers is 23.9M

23.9M to fill at least 10 roster spots.

The following players are under contract for next year:
Bowen 4M- 50% guaranteed
Thomas 3.8M
Oberto 3.8M- 50% guaranteed
Mason 3.8M
Bonner 3.2M
Finley 2.5M- player option
Hill 1.1M
Mahinmi 900K

Total: 23.1M for 8 spots.

Now, again IMO, any realistic scenario must account for how you are going to exchange the players already under contract for better players and stay under the luxury tax. I don't believe a single scenario presented has done that.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

what would be your ideal scenario, ss?

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ideal, as in, holt found the key to the liquor cabinet and started spending like a drunken sailor?

using the MLE - if you are going to be throwing a multi year, full MLE deal around, id rather it be on gooden over sheed (although i do see the other side). hes a higher value piece, and easier too move later on if things go south. if we are splitting the thing between a couple of pieces (say, sheed at a decent rate along with a role playing wing), i can get behind that too. i do hate letting gooden walk for nothing, but hes no game changer.

using our slew of expirings to land a major player - as has been stated, teams are going to be looking to shed salary (due in part to both the economy and the 2010 firesale). thats a great way to land talent at $0.70 on the dollar. im still a fan of carter (some have soured on him over the years, but hes still got game). and i love garcia, but i doubt the kings are shopping him. just looking for maximum value while still paying some attention to the personnel both coming and going.

possibly buy/trade into the middle of this draft - rumors galore about teams outside the very top looking to move down or out of this draft. its a weaker class, but talent is about the same 10-25. you can probably nab a decent enough role player with most any of those picks. and its better to start integrating the younger pieces in now than keep pushing it off. the two forwards out of pitt (young and blair) both being very high on my list in that range.

that all said, im still trying to look and see a course that both improves the team significantly, keeps us below the tax line, and could have a remote possibility of actually happening.

and i dont see too many option there. it basically entails trimming salary where we can (cutting oberto/bowen or pawning off another player) to spend the MLE (on whoever), bringing the kids into camp (gist, hairston, williams), maybe filling out the roster with fringe role players (guys like ross, jones, barnes, udoka, ect), praying for an impact from mahinmi, and rolling the dice with pretty much the same team next season.

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Originally Posted by tmtcsc

You know who's gotten a pass ? Kurt Thomas. What did he do for us this year ? We need to move him and see what we can get. What a waste.

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Nice...I'm glad the FO felt the same way. That's not usually the case.

That's right, I quoted myself...and I feel dirty.

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

I really think this team should make a trade though..with the amount of expiring contracts we have, we shouldn't let it go to waste..

the Bucks have already made it clear that they would trade RJ..they tried to trade him for Portland's expirings..

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

great summary..

TBH, I really don't see the point of waiting until 2010..that's another wasted year for Duncan..2010 has a huge amount of good free agents, so a lot of teams are looking for that cap space..

our ENTIRE team outside of the big 2 expires before the 2010 off-season..there really isn't a point of not making a move IMO..

trading some of the expirings, using part or all of the MLE, and using 1 or 2 of the young players(Mahinmi, Gist, Hairston, Williams)..that's enough to fill all the needs IMO..

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This dude right here is sexy..

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

This dude right here is sexy..

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Nice job...RC ?

Ya..don't tell anybody..

Too bad about Fin though, uh?..

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

let's use this thread to discuss this upcoming off-season and potential moves..I hope we can stay in this thread, so everything doesn't get spread out everywhere..

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The most overlooked part of the Spurs off-season is Drew Gooden. In all the rebuilding talks/fantasy lineups he seems to be out of the equation.

It felt good to have another post player in the regular season alongside Timmy. There's Blair/Gist/Mahinmi to look forward to but we dont know how that'll play out and how long it will take to do so.

If Gooden has a good attitude and accepts a modest contract I'm all for keeping him on board.