Harvey: Delay The Obit? First-Round Lessons

Delay the obit? First-round lessons
Buck Harvey

Things weren't the same the last time the Spurs went out in the first round.

Then, in 2000, it was worse.

Then, they were the first defending champs to not win a playoff series in 16 years. Tim Duncan was heading toward knee surgery and free agency, Sean Elliott had undergone an organ transplant, and the Spurs' backcourt was as old as, well, some players on this team.

What followed suggests the current Spurs can recover — if they get healthy and find another player.

That won't stop obituaries from being written now on this era of Spurs, partly because there is something about this group that, when it fails, looks as if it is going away. In 2007, when the Spurs lost the opener in the first round to the Nuggets, a Denver columnist saw the future.

The Spurs, he wrote, were “too thin, too gray and too vulnerable to be considered real threats at all.”

About six weeks later, the Spurs had their fourth title.

After this first-round exit, the Spurs looked as thin and gray and vulnerable. Their defense was a shell of what it has been for the past dozen years, and too often, the Spurs became a two-man show on the other end.

Matt Bonner and Roger Mason Jr. struggled, as did Gregg Popovich's rotations. After not using George Hill at all in the opener, and after declaring “This playoff is probably not for him,” Popovich played Hill 33 minutes in the finale.

Another Spurs problem was Dallas, which came on at the end of the season and kept getting better. The Mavericks have hurt themselves in recent years, with everything from marijuana confessions on the radio to playoff chokes. This time, their talent came out.

As for Josh Howard, whose infamous birthday party a year ago underlined divisions within the locker room: Tuesday, on his birthday, he completed the best playoff series of his career.

But as Howard held up on an ankle that will require surgery this summer, the absence of Manu Ginobili and his own ankle issues was the ultimate factor. There's no guarantee he would have won this series, but when the Spurs broke down against Dallas, unable to get a shot, they could have used their best creator, passer and clutch scorer.

So the Spurs have one edge on the 2000 Spurs. They know one of their stars is coming back; they didn't know that with Duncan then.

There was a huge difference, however. Duncan was just beginning his career. Once doctors cleaned up his knee, and he agreed to stay in San Antonio, the Spurs had an MVP to lead them.

With both Ginobili and Duncan, their injuries might be a forecast of what is to come. Doctors think Ginobili's stress fracture will clear up completely. But Duncan's knee — the same one that was cut in 2000 — is chronic.

How much will it reduce his effectiveness next season, too? Tuesday, on his way to 30 points, there were signs he can still play.

Duncan will need more help next season, especially during the regular season when his minutes need to be reduced. The Spurs won't have many options, since most of this team is signed and coming back.

But, again, in 2000, the Spurs faced similar limitations. They recovered by finding one bargain, a free-agent scorer named Derek Anderson. He would only last a season, and Tony Parker would arrive the next year. But with a piece in place, the Spurs went back to the Western Conference finals the next season.

Maybe Rasheed Wallace is that now, or maybe it's someone else. Either way, it's possible, because this was a 54-win team, and it limped to the finish. And it could heal.

Duncan's knee can be fixed with rest and or surgery.

I wish people would stop Bsing that hes "chronic and never getting better"

I'm still not clear about whether a surgical intervention could do anything worthwhile for Duncan's condition. I'd appreciate opinions about that from those who have a better grasp on that situation than I do.

I'm glad to hear that Manu's maladies might/will clear up.

Supposedly he has the same thing Elliott had, and when Elliott had surgery on it, it cleared it up.

3 years later and the Spurs still had no better answer for the Mavs

Duncan's left knee is chronic, I haven't found anything that says otherwise. It's been bothering him before this season.

His right is the tendonosis that was diagnosed in February. The only thing that's been released about it is that it's "degenerative". Nothing has been said about surgery being an option. Just rest, the more the better. But even that won't "cure" it.

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Originally Posted by ploto

3 years later and the Spurs still had no better answer for the Mavs

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Manu out was huge, and Tim was three years younger in 06, what else do you want???? They went 7 in 06, this year not so much, they were not there this year at all with Manu and Tim not near 100%, period. Their bench sucked too. What did you want them to do with that?

BTW Spurs titles and your team or Mavs team since you wanna talk?

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Originally Posted by ploto

3 years later and the Spurs still had no better answer for the Mavs

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HMMMMMMMMMM? The indiana Pacers have all the answers I can see that.

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Originally Posted by EricB

Supposedly he has the same thing Elliott had, and when Elliott had surgery on it, it cleared it up.

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Yeah Don Harris had mentioned Elliott has said surgery would help his knees as it did help both of his. ( Elliott had Duncan's same injury)

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Originally Posted by ploto

3 years later and the Spurs still had no better answer for the Mavs

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That was the dumbest post you've ever made.

The Mavs haven't even gotten past the first round since they last eliminated SA. The Spurs have won a championship since 2006 as well as a WCF appearance. The Mavs won a grand total of 3 playoff games prior to this year.

Without Ginobili what do you expect to happen? The Mavs were built to beat the Spurs.

Look at Phoenix, they single handedly destroyed their franchise trying to finally land a player to match up with Duncan. It's frustrating to lose to the Mavs, but when fully healthy, I'd be more concerned with how the Spurs match up with the Lakers.

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Originally Posted by ploto

3 years later and the Spurs still had no better answer for the Mavs

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And during that 3 year period the Spurs got another NBA Championship Banner, Trophy and bunches of 'Bling Bling'.

Now remind me, what did the Mavs and Pacers do in that 3 year period???

I rest my case!!! Thank you.........

I love timmy but he is only going to be a year older.

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

I'm still not clear about whether a surgical intervention could do anything worthwhile for Duncan's condition. I'd appreciate opinions about that from those who have a better grasp on that situation than I do.

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Tendinosis is not an injury. It is a condition caused by prolonged injury, without sufficient time to heal. They call the condition "degenerative" because the actual structure of the tendon is changed, and its ability to function is reduced.

The very simple explanation is this: The tendon is made out of stretchy stuff. When the tendon is over-used, and doesn't get enough rest time to allow it to heal properly, the body repairs the area with some less-stretchy stuff. That area of the tendon is then weaker than "normal" tendon tissue. And because it is not as stretchy, the areas around it tend to be stressed more - which can lead to more tissue being improperly repaired.

The reason that tendinosis doesn't heal is that the body thinks the job is already done. It has repaired that portion of the tendon, even though it was with the less-stretchy tissue. The body doesn't go back and replace the patched area with "normal" stretchy tissue. (For the record, the stretchy stuff is collagen. And the less-stretchy stuff is sort of a mal-formed collagen that looks very different under a microscope.)

Surgery for tendinosis is considered a last resort. For every person who is helped by surgery, there is another who claims that the surgery was no help, or even made things worse. And under the best circumstances, recovery takes a very long time. If Tim had the surgery tomorrow, he would not be ready to participate in Summer camp, and would probably need to start the season on very reduced minutes. The bigger risk would be coming back too quickly (sound familiar?) and risking further injury.

Worse still, they estimate that no more than 75% of the people getting the surgery are able to return to a competitive level. The truth is, that 75% is probably way too high - it may be more like 50%. At Tim's age? The likelihood is reduced, and it would take a long time to find out. I don't know the extent of his tendinosis. If it isn't that great, I can't imagine that they would do the surgery. If it is, then I can't imagine that they would do the surgery until after he has retired. I know what they say about Sean, but still...

I went and dug up a good article on treatment of patellar tendinosis. http://www.kneeclinic.info/problems_overuse.php

Here are a couple of the main points:

Return to full competitive sport after successful patellar tendon surgery takes 6 to 12 months, and only 60% to 75% of patients are able to return to former levels of sporting activity. Thus, the treating doctor or physiotherapist must be sure that an appropriate conservative treatment program has failed before suggesting surgery.

Surgery has been considered the treatment of last resort for tendinopathies, and this certainly applies, if not more so, for a confirmed case of tendinosis. Surgery can be used to excise tissue affected by tendinosis, but surgery has not been proven to stimulate collagen synthesis or maturation. Thus, the tendon that has had surgery requires time for repair and strengthening. Reviews suggest that surgery in tendinosis has a 75% to 85% success rate, and for some tendons this figure may well be a very-best-case estimate. Therefore, an important implication of tendinopathy's underlying pathology being tendinosis is that conservative management must progress slowly. If the initial prognosis the patient receives is realistic, it is less likely that the patient will attempt to return to sport prematurely, suffer re-injury, and thus, "fail" conservative management. Because surgical treatment of tendinosis is not without failure, and recovery takes a minimum of 4 to 6 months, this treatment should be reserved for failure of a high-quality program of conservative management.

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Originally Posted by SouthTexasRancher

And during that 3 year period the Spurs got another NBA Championship Banner, Trophy and bunches of 'Bling Bling'.

Now remind me, what did the Mavs and Pacers do in that 3 year period???

I rest my case!!! Thank you.........

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Once again others shytted on this dude in here after I did, he is not a horrible poster but seriously to say this with Manu out and Tim hurt up is just a joke, what answer did he expect with all of that. I give him 06 and that went 7 late, but damn man this year no answer? What did he expect after all that went wrong? This was not our full team nor near it.

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Originally Posted by Amuseddaysleeper

... The Spurs have won a championship since 2006 as well as a WCF appearance.

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Bah.

I think most basketball fans discount that 2007 championship. PHX was the better team in your second round series. You were able to beat them only by beating up their star player and getting the most ridiculous suspensions in the history of the league.

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Originally Posted by jack0fspeed

Bah.

I think most basketball fans discount that 2007 championship. PHX was the better team in your second round series. You were able to beat them only by beating up their star player and getting the most ridiculous suspensions in the history of the league.

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I know when I look for championship expertise I look for a Mav Fan.

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Originally Posted by jack0fspeed

Bah.

I think most basketball fans discount that 2007 championship. PHX was the better team in your second round series. You were able to beat them only by beating up their star player and getting the most ridiculous suspensions in the history of the league.

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:rollin they were out one game. whats the excuse for losing the other 3?

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Originally Posted by EricB

Duncan's knee can be fixed with rest and or surgery.

I wish people would stop Bsing that hes "chronic and never getting better"

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Ummm, no. You need a primer on tendinosis sir. There are treatments, but the ailment is chronic. Get used to it.

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Originally Posted by jack0fspeed

Bah.

I think most basketball fans discount that 2007 championship. PHX was the better team in your second round series. You were able to beat them only by beating up their star player and getting the most ridiculous suspensions in the history of the league.

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Yes yes, just as you discount Miami's 2006 Championship.....

Get over it.

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Originally Posted by ploto

3 years later and the Spurs still had no better answer for the Mavs

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:rolleyes

You post would suggest that the Spurs came in with all of their guns. Forgot a few details I see?

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Originally Posted by ploto

3 years later and the Spurs still had no better answer for the Mavs

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Yes. I made this very same point in anothe thread. That's the really discouraging thing.

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Originally Posted by jack0fspeed

Bah.

I think most basketball fans discount that 2007 championship. PHX was the better team in your second round series. You were able to beat them only by beating up their star player and getting the most ridiculous suspensions in the history of the league.

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You can discount it all you want. whats in the history books is in the history books.

Anyway people act like Game 5 was easy for the Spurs in that series. They played thier ass off and hit big shots. I remember Bowen's 3 vividly. Not an easy win.

I guess since you think it means something to discount championships, then the Heat's don't matter either right? :rolleyes

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Originally Posted by ploto

3 years later and the Spurs still had no better answer for the Mavs

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Clearly we just need more white guys, right ploto?

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Originally Posted by Buck

The Spurs won't have many options, since most of this team is signed and coming back.

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Right, it's not like $20 million in expiring contracts can get you anything in the league these days...

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Originally Posted by spursfan09

You can discount it all you want. whats in the history books is in the history books.

Anyway people act like Game 5 was easy for the Spurs in that series. They played thier ass off and hit big shots. I remember Bowen's 3 vividly. Not an easy win.

I guess since you think it means something to discount championships, then the Heat's don't matter either right? :rolleyes

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I think the Heat's championship is suspect. I also think the Lakers 2002-2003 is suspect. The Pitsburgh Steelers victory over the Seahawks in 2005 is suspect. I think Barry Bonds HR record is suspect.

History is history buddy. Everyone knows that the stuff in the textbook ain't all there is to the story.