Churchill? Seriously, he invoked Winston...

next time he invoked Churchill -- hopefully he will use this one :

I(we) contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill

I would just like to say--damn.

Chump just owned a bitch.

did churchill torture or not? CD?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobinsontoDuncan

I would just like to say--damn.

Chump just owned a bitch.

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self proclamation forum.

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Originally Posted by Ignignokt

did churchill torture or not? CD?

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I haven't found any evidence that he ordered any torture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I haven't found any evidence that he ordered any torture.

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have you found any evidence bush personally ordered waterboarding?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

I haven't found any evidence that he ordered any torture.

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You haven't found any evidence President Bush ordered torture either but, that hasn't stopped you of making the accusation.

There is plenty of evidence of atrocities committed by the British in WWII and the Mau Mau Revolt...much more than exists for the eight years George Bush was in office.

Hypocrite...why not apply the same standards?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

You haven't found any evidence President Bush ordered torture either but, that hasn't stopped you of making the accusation.

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Sure I have. Bush just tried to lie about what constitutes torture.

It didn't work.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Sure I have. Bush just tried to lie about what constitutes torture.

It didn't work.

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Really? When did that happen and what hasn't worked?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Really? When did that happen and what hasn't worked?

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"We don't torture."

Everyone with a brain saw through it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

"We don't torture."

Everyone with a brain saw through it.

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It's still not definitive the enhanced interrogation techniques are torture.

Show me a statute that defines Waterboarding, or any of the other enhanced interrogation techniques, as torture.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

It's still not definitive the enhanced interrogation techniques are torture.

Show me a statute that defines Waterboarding, or any of the other enhanced interrogation techniques, as torture.

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What did I just say about case law, dumbass?

Americans, military and civilian, have been tried and convicted for waterboarding.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

What did I just say about case law, dumbass?

Americans, military and civilian, have been tried and convicted for waterboarding.

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Let's see the cases...and look closely. I'm pretty sure we'll find at least two things (possibly three) that distinguish them from the current circumstances;

1) They weren't charged with "waterboarding," but some criminal act during which some form of waterboarding was used;

2) The waterboarding technique use -- and rightfully described as torture -- was vastly different that the waterboarding technique employed by CIA Interrogators on KSM and the two others; and

3) The totality of the torture, involved in the cases you hold up, involved substantially more than just waterboarding and probably resulted in the permanent injury or death of one or more victims.

So, bring 'em out...let's see how they compare.

i think you summed up, nicely, what goes on during waterboarding.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

Let's see the cases...and look closely. I'm pretty sure we'll find at least two things (possibly three) that distinguish them from the current circumstances;

1) They weren't charged with "waterboarding," but some criminal act during which some form of waterboarding was used;

2) The waterboarding technique use -- and rightfully described as torture -- was vastly different that the waterboarding technique employed by CIA Interrogators on KSM and the two others; and

3) The totality of the torture, involved in the cases you hold up, involved substantially more than just waterboarding and probably resulted in the permanent injury or death of one or more victims.

So, bring 'em out...let's see how they compare.

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Gee, waterboarding isn't a specific charge?

Duh.

It's torture.

It was pretty easily defined.

I know your heroes tried to change the definition of torture -- the problem is they never ever bothered to mention any of these cases to actually compare their idea of torture to those put forth in those cases.

What you propose to do is pretty basic.

Why did your legal heroes not do it at all?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Gee, waterboarding isn't a specific charge?

Duh.

It's torture.

It was pretty easily defined.

I know your heroes tried to change the definition of torture -- the problem is they never ever bothered to mention any of these cases to actually compare their idea of torture to those put forth in those cases.

What you propose to do is pretty basic.

Why did your legal heroes not do it at all?

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Why don't you just say you can't cite the cases. Or, that you're too lazy, or whatever...

Seriously, let's compare the treatment received by Khalid Sheihk Mohammed and those victims over whom their captors were tried for "waterboarding."

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...store/exsx.jpg

http://financialshopva.com/images/winston_full.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Gee, waterboarding isn't a specific charge?

Duh.

It's torture.

It was pretty easily defined.

I know your heroes tried to change the definition of torture -- the problem is they never ever bothered to mention any of these cases to actually compare their idea of torture to those put forth in those cases.

What you propose to do is pretty basic.

Why did your legal heroes not do it at all?

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You have never been waterboarded, so your supposed authority over this issue is non-existant.

You cannot say that waterboarding is torture since you have no experience with it.

I found all the cases.

Pretty easily.

Why could your legal heroes not?

Why could they not include them in their memos so they could differentiate what they were doing from actions that were successfully prosecuted in the past?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiamiHeat

You have never been waterboarded, so your supposed authority over this issue is non-existant.

You don't know anything about the issue at hand since you have no experience.

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I never made any claim about whether I could easily handle being waterboarded.

You said waterboarding is torture.

You can't know that if you have zero experience.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiamiHeat

You said waterboarding is torture.

You can't know that if you have zero experience.

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The US legal system works on precedent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

The US legal system works on precedent.

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So, let's review the precedent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Yonivore

So, let's review the precedent.

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Why didn't actual lawyers Bybee and Yoo?

Please answer that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ChumpDumper

Why didn't actual lawyers Bybee and Yoo?

Please answer that.

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I have no idea, but, I'd like to review them in here...

Cite 'em Spunky. Let's compare.